EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by Homestar

You can still buy an EV if you want - they aren’t being allocated elsewhere because no one cares about emissions - it’s because no one here (almost no one) wants one or can make it work with their current needs. You seem to want to force the EV tech down peoples throats - this isn’t the way the market will be built, it will be because people want (and can afford) them - until both these items are addressed mass EV uptake will never happen and with Lithium pricing only heading one direction (along with interest rates) the great unwashed won’t be looking to any EV for their next vehicle purchase - that’s just economics 101. I won’t even go back to the issue of charging them all should we all of a sudden get a rush of insanity break out and everyone goes and buys one.

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I don't want to force anyone to do anything they don't want. I can see no way I can do what I want with a 4x4 EV. I can see that for many many people an EV is not an option at this stage.

It's just that Australia wants to reduce it's carbon we are at some point going to need to stop selling ICE cars and eventually even stop driving them. Gasp. Every new ICE car sold now has at the very least hopefully 10 years of useful life for which it needs fossil fuel. That's why we need more EV's asap.

And I swear it's not just me saying our lack of emissions standards is encouraging EV manufacturers to send all their EV's to markets with emissions standards.

Australian fuel efficiency standards vital for CO2 cuts, US research finds | CarExpert

Soo much stuff on it. if you google "binding emissions standards EV" you'll get several pages of people calling for them. Right up to and including some car makers! Even VW!!!

“Our company was to first to warn that this country would become a ‘third world dumping ground’ for obsolete auto technology. This has become a rallying cry,” Mr Sansom claimed.
“… A federally mandated emissions target for our industry is non-negotiable if Australia’s supply of electric vehicles is to grow from a trickle to a flow and thereby start to meet ever growing demand,” he added.
VW Group Australia claims to hold '''leadership position''' in EV discussion | 7NEWS

If you want to understand why the carmakers are sending cars to europe.. have a read. Massive penalties if they don't hit their CO2 fleet averages.

CO₂ emission performance standards for cars and vans

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Homestar

You can still buy an EV if you want - they aren’t being allocated elsewhere because no one cares about emissions - it’s because no one here (almost no one) wants one or can make it work with their current needs. You seem to want to force the EV tech down peoples throats - this isn’t the way the market will be built, it will be because people want (and can afford) them - until both these items are addressed mass EV uptake will never happen and with Lithium pricing only heading one direction (along with interest rates) the great unwashed won’t be looking to any EV for their next vehicle purchase - that’s just economics 101. I won’t even go back to the issue of charging them all should we all of a sudden get a rush of insanity break out and everyone goes and buys one.

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And.. even if you don't want an EV and that's fine.. there is far far more demand for EV's than we have supply for. Even at these crazy prices.

Number of electric vehicles on Australian roads soars as demand exceeds supply | Electric vehicles | The Guardian

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Originally Posted by Narangga

As opposed to Daytime Running Lights that most come standard with today?

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Ah but not all on the road are, it depends on the Date of Manufacture but yes it was a good move for safety.

I think only my 1980 GSX 750 needed Lights turned on. It's a very good idea yet still doesn't stop stupid or is that Stupid can stop me fast[thumbsupbig]


Back to EV topic. Apparently China has moved over Germany for export of cars behind Japan still. Not all EV of course.

2021 data is interesting with massive growth



Global EV Outlook 2022 (IEA)

Has some amazing stats "Back in 2012, just 120 000 electric cars were sold worldwide. In 2021, more than that many are sold each week. Nearly 10% of global car sales were electric in 2021, four times the market share in 2019. This brought the total number of electric cars on the world’s roads to about 16.5 million, triple the amount in 2018. Global sales of electric cars have kept rising strongly in 2022, with 2 million sold in the first quarter, up 75% from the same period in 2021."

EU has 1 in 4 new cars as plug in EV.

UK is 16% ish.

Australia sales 2022

https://b2232832.smushcdn.com/223283...strip=0&webp=1

Still no Disco replacement in site[bawl]

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

It's going to take years to reverse this.

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While I'd like to discuss just what it is you feel needs to be reversed, that's a sure path to CA.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

And because we didn't care about emissions all the EV's have been allocated elsewhere in the world. Manufacturers work in multiples of years. This will take some time to turn around.

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I'm really struggling to understand your argument. There are absolutely no disincentives to EV purchase here. In fact the scales are very much tipped in their favour. The artificial inflation of fuel prices is one way ( lot to say about that but the CA thing looms ). The various tax concessions are another. EV allocations? Once again, this is a RHD market and thus a drop in the ocean for the big players, but EV deliveries are doing better than others. NO, the biggest disincentive to EVs in this country is that they are totally unsuited to it. We cover distances in a year that most Europeans wouldn't in their lifetime, and EVs are hopeless at that. Our grid is in no way ready for an influx of what amounts to at least double the average household consumption eating EVs. And most Aussies that I have known do not want to have to plan every journey around a wall outlet. I know that I don't. I want to go where the whim takes me and not have to come home on a tow truck ( although my car of choice is capable of giving me that luxury ).

The thing that will take a long time is getting EVs accepted without some sort of evangelistic force.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

So our current fleet doesn't have the best fuel saving technology so over all we use more fuel.

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Australia always takes cars from the higher specced end of the market. The vast majority of cars sold here already meet the harshest regulations of the EU. Even the cheaper imports from closer to home meet US specs, and California is on about the same levels as the EU, so fuel consumption is world class. It's only been things like Landcruisers, which didn't sell in Europe, that have not been at that level, and that's changing right now.

AS for not caring about emissions, are you serious? Govt policies on emissions have decimated the power industry. Victoria in particular is actively campaigning to get gas cooking out of the household, while at the same time having massive gas reserves they are happy to sell os. Wind turbines blot the landscape all over the place, and more are being built daily.

A quick search shows that the waiting list for a Tesla is quite a bit shorter than pretty much any Toyota atm. My DIL just dropped off the list for her Y62 ( ordered 6 months ago, still more than 12 to wait ) and grabbed a demo that came up.

ALL new cars are hampered by the supply chain issue that has plagued us since covid. EVs are no different. Even the shortage of chips from TSMC is causing problems for car builders, and unfortunately the elephant in that room is potentially their biggest single customer, Apple, who won't wait while Tesla gets a few chips. While I'm sure TSMC has contingencies, it's still a big factor.

Electric vehicle (EV) discounts and incentives per state in Australia | RACV.

Tax Concessions for Electric Vehicles - Pilot Partners.

Waiting for an EV? New Tesla Model 3s available in less than a month.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

And I swear it's not just me saying our lack of emissions standards is encouraging EV manufacturers to send all their EV's to markets with emissions standards.

Australian fuel efficiency standards vital for CO2 cuts, US research finds | CarExpert

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No, it isn't. That article links to a well known activist organisation. I'm not likely to take them at face value.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

I don't want to force anyone to do anything they don't want. I can see no way I can do what I want with a 4x4 EV. I can see that for many many people an EV is not an option at this stage.

It's just that Australia wants to reduce it's carbon we are at some point going to need to stop selling ICE cars and eventually even stop driving them. Gasp. Every new ICE car sold now has at the very least hopefully 10 years of useful life for which it needs fossil fuel. That's why we need more EV's asap.

And I swear it's not just me saying our lack of emissions standards is encouraging EV manufacturers to send all their EV's to markets with emissions standards.

Australian fuel efficiency standards vital for CO2 cuts, US research finds | CarExpert

Soo much stuff on it. if you google "binding emissions standards EV" you'll get several pages of people calling for them. Right up to and including some car makers! Even VW!!!

“Our company was to first to warn that this country would become a ‘third world dumping ground’ for obsolete auto technology. This has become a rallying cry,” Mr Sansom claimed.
“… A federally mandated emissions target for our industry is non-negotiable if Australia’s supply of electric vehicles is to grow from a trickle to a flow and thereby start to meet ever growing demand,” he added.
VW Group Australia claims to hold '''leadership position''' in EV discussion | 7NEWS

If you want to understand why the carmakers are sending cars to europe.. have a read. Massive penalties if they don't hit their CO2 fleet averages.

CO₂ emission performance standards for cars and vans

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So based on the links you’ve supplied light vehicles make up less than 8% of emissions so even cutting this to zero isn’t going to have a huge effect overall - there’s plenty of bigger targets we should be worried about before looking for the small stuff.

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Originally Posted by Tins

..... Being RHD, we're lucky that South Africa, China and the UK form a major part of their market or we wouldn't get their cars at all.

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China is LHD, not RHD.

The major countries to drive on the left can be summarised as :-

UK, Japan, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Thailand. 'Also rans" include South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and a string of smaller countries.

Of these it is perhaps worth noting that India, Indonesia, Thailand, while not having very high car ownership today, make up for it by the size of the population, and have a rising living standard. India is expected to become the largest country by population in the fairly near future.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

The major countries to drive on the left can be summarised as :-

UK, Japan, India, Pakistan, Indonesia, Thailand. 'Also rans" include South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, and a string of smaller countries.

Of these it is perhaps worth noting that India, Indonesia, Thailand, while not having very high car ownership today, make up for it by the size of the population, and have a rising living standard. India is expected to become the largest country by population in the fairly near future.

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Certainly interesting when you map it out John.

List of left- & right-driving countries