Thread: EV general discussion

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

Most EV batteries have a specific energy of under 300Wh/kg.
CATL says its new battery almost doubles that figure, with a specific energy of 500Wh/kg

End 2023? Hope so. Details are a bit thin! Is is not that much better than the Model Y battery. I assume it is not a Solid State battery!


CATL unveils battery that may power electric airplanes and 1000km-range EVs - ABC News

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

Mia Culpa While watching a football game (1/2time) I read about CATL 1000wh/kg battery tech. Now I cannot find it.

Why is that number significant? The car I was going to change to in July MG4 is 200ishwh/kg and goes 550km. The company making the MG batteries is a joint venture with the company that suggests it will be shipping 1000wh/kg batteries this year. The MG4 with the same weight of 1000wh/kg batteries may have a 2500km range.

IF this is true the price of a car I buy in July would decline by a significant amount by December!

"In recent years, with the rapid development of aerospace technology, there is a higher demand for energy. High-performance electrical energy systems can increase payload, reduce launch costs and improve on-orbit reliability. At the same time, with the change of application scenarios, the diversity of energy has also been tested. Lithium carbon fluoride primary battery (Li-CF x ) has gradually emerged in the fields of aerospace and weaponry recently due to its ultra-high energy density (700-1000Wh/kg), ultra-long wet shelf life (more than 10 years, annual self-discharge rate less than 2%), free ground and on-orbit maintenance, wider storage and working temperature. This paper focuses on the working characteristics, application research and prospect of lithium carbon fluoride primary battery in the aerospace field, and provides a solution for different aerospace energy needs." Link


Cut above is NOT the news I read. I had thought 2025 solid state date was D day for current battery tech via Quatumscape. Now I think it may be 2023. Pausing flipping my current quirky short range MG xs. Partly as new charging option in Camberdown and another about to open in Geelong which will make 2 * 80% fast charging at 30/40min stops a lot faster than the 1* 100% one hour fast charge and 1 hour for very little power at colac or Warmblooded I have been doing for the last 40,000 km. Western Districts of Vic is slowly catching up at last. Noting IF the 1000wh/kg option is here late 2023 almost no one needs a lot of recharging options!

Have to chuckle if it is true as another brands billions on a new battery tech which was shouted about in 2022 would be almost as redundant? Tweeter loses my seem tame?

Was it a different article to what you had already posted about?

Most articles I can find say pretty much only what is in that article.

Originally Posted by Homestar

Haven’t heard of anyone talking about 1000w/h per kg but there is an article
on 700w/h per kg from 3 or so weeks ago - Chinese Researchers Announce 711 Wh/kg Lithium Battery - CleanTechnica

sorry for my waffle. I found the article which I clearly miss read. it is a 500wt/kg catl

Like this one but it stated by end of 2023.

"CATL launches 500 Wh/kg condensed matter battery

Chinese battery industry heavyweight CATL has unveiled a novel condensed matter battery technology with an energy density of up to 500 Wh/kg. The company said it can achieve mass production within this year. Link"

Catl and Saica motors have a Joint venter making the batteries that SAICA (MG) cars use. Tesla 4680-type cylindrical battery for Comparision are "energy density of the cell is estimated then at 272-296 Wh/kg, which is very good and basically comparable to the best cells on the market."

It is about 100% better than TESLA 4680- type!
"The 4680-type cell already stores over 5-times more energy than the physically smaller 2170-type cell.Considering the rumored total energy content, the energy density would be:

• 1st gen: 276 Wh/kg
• 2nd gen: 305 Wh/kg
• 3rd gen: 333 Wh/kg

"
Extrapolate that to the CALT jump and we get a bit of a butt kicker.


I looked at Battery Comparison of Energy Density - Cylindrical and Prismatic Cells

I am not an expert in this just very interested. It is tough comparing apples to apples. My older MG 42kWh battery compared to todays 51 61 or 74 kwh battery does not state its Wh/kg.

My bet is it is in my case less than the Tesla 276Wh/kg? The new Model 4 is not new else where- We a just SLOW. The newer 51 or 64 kWh and charges at 3 times the rate of mine. That is as significant as the size. The power to weight of the new "about to be shipped" may still double the range at least. Not times 5 as I first thought- My error!

It is a big jump just not as big as I some how thought.

Originally Posted by scarry

Commercial charger only,just imagine the current it would draw for a "quick charge"

Was talking about the energy density of the batteries themselves - well I assume that’s what ND was on about.

Originally Posted by Homestar

Was talking about the energy density of the batteries themselves - well I assume that’s what ND was on about.

I am never sure of what I am talking about

Found from the horses mouth so to speak
CATL launches condensed battery with an energy density of up to 500 Wh/kg, enables electrification of passenger aircrafts

Cut from the middle- It may tick a LOT of boxes perhaps? Cost is only missing bit!

"What is more, condensed battery integrates a range of innovative technologies, including the ultra-high energy density cathode materials, innovative anode materials, separators, and manufacturing processes, offering excellent charge and discharge performance as well as good safety performance.



The launch of this cutting-edge technology breaks the limits that have long restricted the development of the battery sector and will open up a new scenario of electrification centering on high level of safety and light weight. At present, CATL is cooperating with partners in the development of electric passenger aircrafts and practicing aviation-level standards and testing in accordance with aviation-grade safety and quality requirements. In addition, we will also launch the automotive-grade version of condensed batteries, which are expected to be put into mass production within this year.

"

Unfortunately I did not see a reference to SAIC Motor (MG)
"In 2022, CATL unveiled Qilin battery with the highest integration efficiency in the world, and it has started mass production this March. They have been used on multiple high-end BEVs such as ZEEKR, AITO and Li Auto. "

That OILIN battery at 255Wh/kg gives a better idea of the change to the new 500Wh/kg

" Zeekr 009 model (in Q2 2023), which will be the first model, equipped with the Qilin battery. The Qilin battery (English "Kirin") is considered a noticeable upgrade, compared to the already successful CATL's battery systems. As we described before, it's essentially the third generation of CATL's cell-to-pack (CTP) battery system, which might consist of prismatic lithium-ion cells (LFP or NCM chemistry) to achieve much higher energy density - up to 255 Wh/kg (pack level), in the case of NCM version.

That's enough to target a range of 622 miles (1,000 km) under the optimistic CLTC test cycle (probably at least 20 percent less in the WLTP/EPA test cycles).

"

My assumption only is the new 500Wh/kg could make the example car 'Zeekr 009 model' go from 'target a range of 622 miles (1,000 km) under the optimistic CLTC test cycle (probably at least 20 percent less in the WLTP/EPA test cycles).' to a lot more. I would say 2000km due to the test mentioned being rather questionable?

The Zeekr is not likley to get here. It may have a twin that does come here a "Volvo EX30" None of which would tow my boat

Originally Posted by Narangga

Mostly through Singapore, however that is not always direct. The next vessel is due 22 May having departed Fremantle 17 May having come direct from Japan. Most likely has vehicles from other countries that were shipped via Singapore to Freo by other vessels.

Due to volumes here there is minimal delay once the vessel is in port.

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Where do cars for the NT come through? Do the boats go there or Adelaide?

The ports in Aus are nuts at the moment.

My car sat bobbing off the sunshine coast for 2.5 weeks before the boat could even dock. I gather Port Kembla is far worse.

Further investigations have proved that information is incorrect. One vessel in Darwin went from Japan to Freo to Darwin. The next vessel is Korea to Freo to Darwin next week. Singapore must be old news.

Ford’s next-generation electric vehicle architecture will land in 2025, with the first vehicle to be a three-row sport utility vehicle with 350 miles of range that’s inspired by the automaker’s popular Expedition SUV.
The announcement came during Ford’s capital markets day Monday, which also included a flurry of batty material news. The company outlined new supply deals for battery-grade lithium to produce 2 million electric vehicles by 2026. But mainly, the capital markets event was intended to show how Ford can close the gap with its competitors, namely Tesla, which still dominates the EV market in the US.
Ford’s first next-gen EV will be a three-row sport utility vehicle with 350 miles of range."

Only bit about this news is I suspect by 2025 range may be a lot more than 350 miles

Originally Posted by NavyDiver

Only bit about this news is I suspect by 2025 range may be a lot more than 350 miles[/FONT][/COLOR]

It would want to be a lot better.
A loaded work ute will probably do,maybe,possibly,200 miles,without towing a loaded trailer?More than likely less.

Then take off 50 for margin,well no one wants to run out of power,so that leaves 150 miles,probably pretty useless for the average Tradie.

Then after 5yrs and a bit of battery degradation it will be worse.😩

They certainly need to come a long way before they will be convenient for some.

Typo Scarry? For *most*