EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by Tins

I wonder how the Koreans would add this to their graph.

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They would probably recommend not parking your EV in salt water. [emoji849]

The aim of the study was to understand the fire safety issues which will provide input to first responders, fire safety engineers, and structural engineers.

So if an EV is on fire and you can submerge it fully in water, then what the study results do show is you can remove 85% of the total heat being generated and would just be left with the battery in a thermal runaway. The rest of the car won’t re-ignite and you have now contained the fire.

But do avoid using salt water to fight the fire.

Interesting use of fire fighting technology developed for the oil and gas industry to contain an EV fire:

Cobra & EV Fires - YouTube

Handling of Lithium-ion fires - Cold Cut Systems AB

Electric Vehicle - Cold Cut Systems AB

Thermal runaway EV battery fires controlled with water cutting tech | Auto Express

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Originally Posted by Tins

I wonder how the Koreans would add this to their graph.

https://youtu.be/cUVZR7OIelk'si=BhZY1YBPOYQxMk4n

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Interesting, but I guess logical, that two of the vehicles came out of the water intact but sans batteries, despite the heat of the battery fire.

I'm glad that we didn't instal these batteries:

Consumers urged to immediately check for recalled LG solar batteries after Government safety warning notice | ACCC

One of the main reasons we haven't added batteries to our house yet is that none of the battery systems available tick all the boxes - these were one of the options available.

Ironically, I'm now getting ads for Tesla house batteries on this page ...

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Originally Posted by Arapiles

I'm glad that we didn't instal these batteries:

Consumers urged to immediately check for recalled LG solar batteries after Government safety warning notice | ACCC

One of the main reasons we haven't added batteries to our house yet is that none of the battery systems available tick all the boxes - these were one of the options available.

Ironically, I'm now getting ads for Tesla house batteries on this page ...

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At the risk of going off topic, but have you looked into Redflow’s ZBM3 batteries? They use a water based electrolyte with no risk of thermal runaway.

ZBM3 Battery – Redflow

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Originally Posted by DiscoDB

At the risk of going off topic, but have you looked into Redflow’s ZBM3 batteries? They use a water based electrolyte with no risk of thermal runaway.

ZBM3 Battery – Redflow

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Choice sponsored a very large battery test from 2016 to 2022: as they said in relation to the Redflow batteries:

The Redflow battery is another interesting non-lithium battery, being a 'flow' battery that uses a pumped zinc bromide electrolyte liquid to store and release charge. Unfortunately, the tested samples have suffered several electrolyte leaks or contamination and the battery was replaced five times over the course of the trial.
Redflow identified manufacturing and transport issues as the cause of these problems and have modified procedures since then, and expect the problem will be avoided in future. Due to the various replacements of test samples, the final sample went through only 800 cycles by the end of the trial, ending with a capacity of 93% of the original level.

Replaced 5 times .... no way I'd be buying them. Although it's not ideal from a green perspective, for back-up I'd currently go with a house switch and an ICE generator.

Yeah, I don’t believe the Redflow batteries are production ready yet. I’m sure they’ll get better but there’s a lot going on with them.

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Originally Posted by Tins

Another teething problem.

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They were lucky it wasn't carrying Petrol or Avgas.

As i have said before,insurance companies will just walk away from these sorts of risks.

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Originally Posted by Arapiles

Choice sponsored a very large battery test from 2016 to 2022: as they said in relation to the Redflow batteries:

The Redflow battery is another interesting non-lithium battery, being a 'flow' battery that uses a pumped zinc bromide electrolyte liquid to store and release charge. Unfortunately, the tested samples have suffered several electrolyte leaks or contamination and the battery was replaced five times over the course of the trial.
Redflow identified manufacturing and transport issues as the cause of these problems and have modified procedures since then, and expect the problem will be avoided in future. Due to the various replacements of test samples, the final sample went through only 800 cycles by the end of the trial, ending with a capacity of 93% of the original level.

Replaced 5 times .... no way I'd be buying them. Although it's not ideal from a green perspective, for back-up I'd currently go with a house switch and an ICE generator.

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That was the zcell which I think was being manufactured in Mexico. ZMB3 is the 3rd generation and they shifted production to Thailand, but I haven’t seen any reports on the ZMB3 - it only went into commercial production recently. I do like the concept of being able to renew the electrolyte.

I did look into getting a natural gas generator at one stage when we were experience a lot of power outages, but happy with my petrol generator to just keep the fridge going.

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Originally Posted by scarry

As i have said before,insurance companies will just walk away from these sorts of risks.

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Well the old underwriting maxim that still applies today is there is no such thing as a bad risk, just a bad price!

EV fires is an interesting area for insurance as the consequences tend to be as bad, so it is all about likelihood and at present EV’s win on that front. But because of the fear and uncertainty, they can charge a much higher premium, and so the returns can be even higher.

The one group of cars which is proving to be a higher likelihood of a fire is Hybrids. They seem to have all the downsides of ICE fire risks which then ignites the EV battery. PHEV’s will present some challenges yet.