EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

I wouldn't worry about many people buying them in the future. Sales of EVs reduced to 6.3% of total vehicle sales in July.
Note no breathless press releases so far from the EV lobby. Of course they may claim success by adding in hybrid sales.
Regards PhilipA

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They often include the hybrids in the figures whenever they can to inflate them. The issue they have, is the majority of people that want EV's ... have now purchased one (probably as a 2nd/3rd car, so the net effect is more cars on the road, not less pollution, which is apparently the aim). I know of someone that like there chinese EV so much, they purchased a 2nd one for there wife. As a car, if you can charge at home and don't do huge milages, they could be great.

I think there is something wrong with my brain. I'm still concerned about my ICE cars corroding there engines away when they reach 15years old [bigrolf][bigrolf] Oh gees that is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time. I promise I will be good and not mention the fact that electric cars .... Do you know what they have...... Would you believe a cooling system.... just like an ICE vehicle. Only it runs through a high voltage battery (don't worry, mixing high voltage and coolant/water is a lot safer than running it through a lump of cast iron). Oh man I enjoy these types of thread, so much more funny than the humor forum/threads [bigrolf]

seeya
Shane L.

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

They often include the hybrids in the figures whenever they can to inflate them. The issue they have, is the majority of people that want EV's ... have now purchased one (probably as a 2nd/3rd car, so the net effect is more cars on the road, not less pollution, which is apparently the aim). I know of someone that like there chinese EV so much, they purchased a 2nd one for there wife. As a car, if you can charge at home and don't do huge milages, they could be great.

I think there is something wrong with my brain. I'm still concerned about my ICE cars corroding there engines away when they reach 15years old [bigrolf][bigrolf] Oh gees that is one of the funniest things I've read in a long time. I promise I will be good and not mention the fact that electric cars .... Do you know what they have...... Would you believe a cooling system.... just like an ICE vehicle. Only it runs through a high voltage battery (don't worry, mixing high voltage and coolant/water is a lot safer than running it through a lump of cast iron). Oh man I enjoy these types of thread, so much more funny than the humor forum/threads [bigrolf]

seeya
Shane L.

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FYI the coolant in EV's runs as much much lower temperatures to ICE cars. The systems are not pressurized because they never get that hot. Typically barely above room temperature.

So they don't seem to be at all hard on coolant. Tesla state the following.

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Battery coolant: Your Battery coolant does not need to be replaced for the life of your vehicle under most circumstances.

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Just for your info, this is the Tesla service schedule. Man that's a lot less servicing than any ice car I've ever owned.

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Service IntervalsTesla recommends the following maintenance items and intervals, as applicable to your vehicle, to ensure continued reliability and efficiency of your Model Y.
For additional information on vehicle alerts, see Troubleshooting Alerts.

• Brake fluid health check every 4 years (replace if necessary)*.
• Cabin air filter replacement every 2 years.
• HEPA filter (x2) and carbon filter (x2) replacement every 3 years.
• Clean and lubricate brake calipers every year or 12,500 miles (20,000 km) if in an area where roads are salted during winter.
• Rotate tires every 6,250 miles (10,000 km) or if tread depth difference is 2/32 in (1.5 mm) or greater, whichever comes first.

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You forgot buy new(special expensive) tyres every 20-30KK.
Pay enormous insurance bill every 12 months.
Suffer enormous depreciation when vehicle sold.
Pay 50cents per Kw at charging station if you are not one of the X%( probably less than 3-5) who can charge at home during the day from solar panels.

It's at least USD52cents for a fast charge in the USA and over UKP50 pence in the UK. How long before that expensive in Australia? Source video of person who has a charge Trailer in USA.(towed by a diesel Ute)
Regards PhilipA

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

FYI the coolant in EV's runs as much much lower temperatures to ICE cars. The systems are not pressurized because they never get that hot. Typically barely above room temperature.

So they don't seem to be at all hard on coolant. Tesla state the following.



Just for your info, this is the Tesla service schedule. Man that's a lot less servicing than any ice car I've ever owned.

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Oh, I understand that. Sadly they are proving to be very unreliable. EV's are an extremely complex vehicle. In time they may become more reliable ... but not while manufacturers are loosing money on them hand over fist. Just look at the reliability rating of EV's compared to ICE vehicles. They are differently complex, not less complex due to the electric motor (the battery with its chemical soup, hundred of welded connections, cooling systems, heating systems, exotic monitoring systems etc) is far more complex and dangerous than any internal combustion engine ever has been.

so not less complex, just differently so.

The bit that gets me with electric cars .... is they are so fast, why do they so often hold me up in traffic. I'm convinced all the drivers, drive everywhere staring at the charge monitor, being slowly driven insane by the fear and anxiety of running out of charge.

I'm not surprised by the limited service intervals on electric cars ... They expect them to last for about 8years and be thrown away. They are disposable and unrepairable much like a chinese fridge is these days.

The brakes is an interesting one. Apparently they are having issues in areas where they salt the road, you see with regen it is entirely possible to drive the car without using the brakes. So they seize up and need replacing.

Its all fun isn't it. Everything has its positives and negatives, and this is no different

seeya
Shane L.

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Oh, I understand that. Sadly they are proving to be very unreliable. EV's are an extremely complex vehicle. In time they may become more reliable ... but not while manufacturers are loosing money on them hand over fist. Just look at the reliability rating of EV's compared to ICE vehicles. They are differently complex, not less complex due to the electric motor (the battery with its chemical soup, hundred of welded connections, cooling systems, heating systems, exotic monitoring systems etc) is far more complex and dangerous than any internal combustion engine ever has been.

so not less complex, just differently so.

The bit that gets me with electric cars .... is they are so fast, why do they so often hold me up in traffic. I'm convinced all the drivers, drive everywhere staring at the charge monitor, being slowly driven insane by the fear and anxiety of running out of charge.

I'm not surprised by the limited service intervals on electric cars ... They expect them to last for about 8years and be thrown away. They are disposable and unrepairable much like a chinese fridge is these days.

The brakes is an interesting one. Apparently they are having issues in areas where they salt the road, you see with regen it is entirely possible to drive the car without using the brakes. So they seize up and need replacing.

Its all fun isn't it. Everything has its positives and negatives, and this is no different

seeya
Shane L.

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Electric cars have big positives and negatives. :D Sorry couldn't help that.

So I'm not so sure about the reliability thing. The cars we get here.. seem to be quite good. I'm on a whole heap of owners groups for all sorts of cars. I really can't remember ever seeing "my car had XXXX break and failed to proceed" in the tesla groups. About the only thing I'm aware of that I would consider a proper fault is apparently the front control arm bushes are failing earlier than ideal. Tesla are replacing them free.. Mass production stuff things can slip through. Compared to what I see of Landrovers.. night and day!

So I just finished my weekend away at Tenterfield. Car did 300k or so down there (plus a few diversions). Charged at the accom. Drove home for a total of 610k for the weekend. and it's back home with 35%. I'm sorry.. it was entirely pleasant for that application. Much less tiring than my old defender (I know that's not really fair).

As to the driving slowly thing ... both the car and the phone app are excellent at calculating range. I was confident that I had margins and I did. If I was driving slower than everyone else.. It's because I'm the only person in queensland that actually drives at the posted roadworks speed limit it would appear. Was very testing .. lots of long roadworks on the Cunningham hwy near the range. Sure you can do 80 in the 40 zone. Go for it!

Certainly EVs are very complex - but so are all modern cars! And many, if not most, of the problems associated with running them are the same - failure of what should be parts you thought were solved half a century ago and have nothing to do with complexity - window mechanisms, suspension parts, tyres and wheels that need replacing when you hit a rock on the road, door locks that wear out too rapidly, parts that are unavailable or cost a fortune (especially accident repair parts like light assemblies and panels), upholstery and plastic trim that disintegrates in Australian sunshine, door seals that don't etc etc.

As examples, my son's car is driving round at the moment with the LHF window held up by tape while his mechanic searches for a winder mechanism (preferably one that costs less than $1,000) and his wife's car only has flat out or off heater/aircon fan speeds with new parts unavailable. Both are common, popular, models and fairly new (but out of warranty), different brands. And neither are EVs. But there are no reasons to suggest EVs will be any better, or any worse, although buying from new brands and rapidly changing models does make you worry whether the parts situation will be even worse in a few years.

But, again, probably no worse than it is for less common ICE models, such as Landrover! (Although it needs pointing out that most Series Landrover parts are pretty easy to find and cheap.)

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Certainly EVs are very complex - but so are all modern cars! And many, if not most, of the problems associated with running them are the same - failure of what should be parts you thought were solved half a century ago and have nothing to do with complexity - window mechanisms, suspension parts, tyres and wheels that need replacing when you hit a rock on the road, door locks that wear out too rapidly, parts that are unavailable or cost a fortune (especially accident repair parts like light assemblies and panels), upholstery and plastic trim that disintegrates in Australian sunshine, door seals that don't etc etc.

As examples, my son's car is driving round at the moment with the LHF window held up by tape while his mechanic searches for a winder mechanism (preferably one that costs less than $1,000) and his wife's car only has flat out or off heater/aircon fan speeds with new parts unavailable. Both are common, popular, models and fairly new (but out of warranty), different brands. And neither are EVs. But there are no reasons to suggest EVs will be any better, or any worse, although buying from new brands and rapidly changing models does make you worry whether the parts situation will be even worse in a few years.

But, again, probably no worse than it is for less common ICE models, such as Landrover! (Although it needs pointing out that most Series Landrover parts are pretty easy to find and cheap.)

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Oh, I wasn't criticizing EV's for being unreliable. I simply simply looked at the warranty and service charges (google insurance company, lease company, warranty company stats .... scroll past any with "ev", "green" or something obviously loony and left leaning and have a look at the stats. ie: not nutters that love them ... or nutters that hate them... simple industry stats. You will find land rover right down the bottom.... probably even trailing some of the electric cars [bigrolf]

As dumb as it sounds, I reckon I could more easily source parts for my wifes poogoe (very rare, now 14 year old little sports car) and my old ****box range rover, much more easily than any 5 year old, just out of warranty car. You see the poogoe, there is a specialist wrecker in melbourne that appears to have a yard full of them. I guess he has purchased every crashed one that has gone through the auctions over the last 10years. The ****box range rover .... we have specialist type suppliers that actually warehouse the commonly required stuff in australia. (I've often found buying parts from the UK, much faster than ordering them in through manufacturers too).

seeya
Shane L.

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Originally Posted by JDNSW

Certainly EVs are very complex - but so are all modern cars! And many, if not most, of the problems associated with running them are the same - failure of what should be parts you thought were solved half a century ago and have nothing to do with complexity - window mechanisms, suspension parts, tyres and wheels that need replacing when you hit a rock on the road, door locks that wear out too rapidly, parts that are unavailable or cost a fortune (especially accident repair parts like light assemblies and panels), upholstery and plastic trim that disintegrates in Australian sunshine, door seals that don't etc etc.

As examples, my son's car is driving round at the moment with the LHF window held up by tape while his mechanic searches for a winder mechanism (preferably one that costs less than $1,000) and his wife's car only has flat out or off heater/aircon fan speeds with new parts unavailable. Both are common, popular, models and fairly new (but out of warranty), different brands. And neither are EVs. But there are no reasons to suggest EVs will be any better, or any worse, although buying from new brands and rapidly changing models does make you worry whether the parts situation will be even worse in a few years.

But, again, probably no worse than it is for less common ICE models, such as Landrover! (Although it needs pointing out that most Series Landrover parts are pretty easy to find and cheap.)

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If i wanted to find something to be concerned about with EV's is that we have a wave of new manufacturers. Buying a car is a commitment to the manufacturer that they will continue to supply parts. Ideally not just for the warranty, or for the "reasonable" time dictated by consumer law. People have an expectation that they will be able to run their car for a reasonable time frame with support and be able to call "enough" at a time of their choosing. Not because the car needs to be written off due to the unavailability of some widget.

The cost to the manufacturers must be immense to hold parts for older models. On top of expected parts - if there is a design issue there might be an ongoing requirement for one part across the fleet requiring remanufacture.

Early indications with BYD is they are having growing pains. I know several people who have BYD's and are happy with them. However the ones that have needed parts have reported long delays. Whether this turns out to be just growing pains, or goes onto become an ongoing thing is entirely unclear.

Of course... as you point out this is also a problem for legacy manufacturers.

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Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

If i wanted to find something to be concerned about with EV's is that we have a wave of new manufacturers. Buying a car is a commitment to the manufacturer that they will continue to supply parts. Ideally not just for the warranty, or for the "reasonable" time dictated by consumer law. People have an expectation that they will be able to run their car for a reasonable time frame with support and be able to call "enough" at a time of their choosing. Not because the car needs to be written off due to the unavailability of some widget.

The cost to the manufacturers must be immense to hold parts for older models. On top of expected parts - if there is a design issue there might be an ongoing requirement for one part across the fleet requiring remanufacture.

Early indications with BYD is they are having growing pains. I know several people who have BYD's and are happy with them. However the ones that have needed parts have reported long delays. Whether this turns out to be just growing pains, or goes onto become an ongoing thing is entirely unclear.

Of course... as you point out this is also a problem for legacy manufacturers.

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I wouldn't be worried about EV's. They simply won't be repaired. No mechanic wants to touch them, no insurance company wants to touch them, no smash repair wants to touch them. As soon as the battery degrades slightly, or there is any issue that can't easily be resolved (even changing a flat tire on a tesla for example is no small thing)..... they will all be just chucked to landfill and buried (so they can't torch off and burn the wreckers/holding yards out).

seeya
Shane L.

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

I wouldn't be worried about EV's. They simply won't be repaired. No mechanic wants to touch them, no insurance company wants to touch them, no smash repair wants to touch them. As soon as the battery degrades slightly, or there is any issue that can't easily be resolved (even changing a flat tire on a tesla for example is no small thing)..... they will all be just chucked to landfill and buried (so they can't torch off and burn the wreckers/holding yards out).

seeya
Shane L.

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I think that's probably an overly negative take on it.. but that's this thread delivering. :D