EV general discussion

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Originally Posted by PhilipA

A couple of Tid Bits from my recent travels.
1 friend in Brissy knows a millionaire well who bought AFAIK a Tesla X or Y. Battery failed at about 8 years and quoted $40K to fix by Tesla. Reason given was apparently that car had to be shipped to Japan for battery replacement!
So being a millionaire he just bought another one and kept the first for spares.

Camping yesterday at Halifax at Nelson Bay. Lady at next site has a Ranger hybrid. Loves it and claims 6L per100Km and 12.5 towing horse float. Says on hills like Moonbi Range is great as charges while going downhill. Must live near Tamworth as says goes to the shops for free. So not only city centric. Says only! cost $76K only 6K over diesel Ranger. I wonder if they plan an Everest hybrid?
Regards PhilipA

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Lets see how the hybrids are working out in 8 years time. Will they all be useless broken lumps of merde thrown on the scrap heap ..... Or will they be something we all want as they have proved reliable and efficient. Will they continue to work when the battery craps itself .... or will they self destruct all there electronics if this happens ... Interesting times ahead for sure.

Why would anyone be suprised by a dead battery at 8years of age. That's actually better than average when you think of all the lithium based tools, laptops, ipads, phones etc you have owned over the years. Some will last well, some will die young, most will be "average" whatever "average" turns out to be. Its just a chemical reaction with a finite lifespan.

[QUOTE=DoubleChevron;3264903]Lets see how the hybrids are working out in 8 years time. Will they all be useless broken lumps of merde thrown on the scrap heap ..... Or will they be something we all want as they have proved reliable and efficient. Will they continue to work when the battery craps itself .... or will they self destruct all there electronics if this happens ... Interesting times ahead for sure.

Why would anyone be suprised by a dead battery at 8years of age. That's actually better than average when you think of all the lithium based tools, laptops, ipads, phones etc you have owned over the years. Some will last well, some will die young, most will be "average" whatever "average" turns out to be. Its just a chemical reaction with a finite lifespan.[/QUOTE

One of my Brothers has one,had it for about 4 yrs now,they live in Darwin.

It is a Camry,and he recons in real life driving the real fuel savings are bugga all,maybe 10% max,compared with the previous non Hybrid Camry they had.

[QUOTE=scarry;3264904]

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Lets see how the hybrids are working out in 8 years time. Will they all be useless broken lumps of merde thrown on the scrap heap ..... Or will they be something we all want as they have proved reliable and efficient. Will they continue to work when the battery craps itself .... or will they self destruct all there electronics if this happens ... Interesting times ahead for sure.

Why would anyone be suprised by a dead battery at 8years of age. That's actually better than average when you think of all the lithium based tools, laptops, ipads, phones etc you have owned over the years. Some will last well, some will die young, most will be "average" whatever "average" turns out to be. Its just a chemical reaction with a finite lifespan.[/QUOTE

One of my Brothers has one,had it for about 4 yrs now,they live in Darwin.

It is a Camry,and he recons in real life driving the real fuel savings are bugga all,maybe 10% max,compared with the previous non Hybrid Camry they had.

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I don't understand why anyone that doesn't live in a city with heavy traffic would ever buy a hybrid. if your doing highway travel, you are likely to be mostly running on the weeny little petrol motor. A good deisel vehicle will be vastly superior ..... weirdly we don't seem to do diesel hybrids. probably because they take to long to warm up so wouldn't pass emissions testing?

[QUOTE=DoubleChevron;3264905]

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Originally Posted by scarry

I don't understand why anyone that doesn't live in a city with heavy traffic would ever buy a hybrid. if your doing highway travel, you are likely to be mostly running on the weeny little petrol motor. A good deisel vehicle will be vastly superior ..... weirdly we don't seem to do diesel hybrids. probably because they take to long to warm up so wouldn't pass emissions testing?

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The engine in a hybrid Camry is a 2.5 litre, hardly teeny weeny.

Since it is an Atkinson Cycle engine, even on the highway it is more efficient than an Otto Cycle engine.

Actually, on extremely short trips like less than a couple of kilometres, a hybrid isn't efficient because it spends most of that time burning petrol to warm things up in case you want to put your foot down to beat someone away from the traffic lights.

[QUOTE=scarry;3264904]

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

Lets see how the hybrids are working out in 8 years time. Will they all be useless broken lumps of merde thrown on the scrap heap ..... Or will they be something we all want as they have proved reliable and efficient. Will they continue to work when the battery craps itself .... or will they self destruct all there electronics if this happens ... Interesting times ahead for sure.

Why would anyone be suprised by a dead battery at 8years of age. That's actually better than average when you think of all the lithium based tools, laptops, ipads, phones etc you have owned over the years. Some will last well, some will die young, most will be "average" whatever "average" turns out to be. Its just a chemical reaction with a finite lifespan.[/QUOTE

One of my Brothers has one,had it for about 4 yrs now,they live in Darwin.

It is a Camry,and he recons in real life driving the real fuel savings are bugga all,maybe 10% max,compared with the previous non Hybrid Camry they had.

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I'm really unclear how hybrid batteries will pull up in the long term. I think with hybrids they can do as much or as little as the manufacturer wants. High degredation doesn't really mean they need to be replaced. The engine just runs more. I did see something a while back saying most old Prius batteries are long dead.

PHEV is a different thing though. Much bigger batteries in very inefficient cars which can run as full EV's and they potentially get absolutely snotted each day with relatievely little use... one full cycle. Even if you do that say 200 times a year if they chemistry is right they should be able to handle it for 10-15 years I would think. Most PHEV will use approaching double the power of an efficient EV.

BEV's though.. much bigger batteries so for someone driving to work and back they are probably only going to need to charge a couple of times a week. That's why BEV's batteries will likely last the life of the car. They are only being tickled.

Your iphone which has a lithium cobalt battery gets one cycle a day is not like a BEV with LFP or even NCM (well managed).

For Toyotas commentary on the matter (clearly they say it's all ok.. buy now!)

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/h...st-to-replace/

[QUOTE=DoubleChevron;3264905]

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Originally Posted by scarry

I don't understand why anyone that doesn't live in a city with heavy traffic would ever buy a hybrid. if your doing highway travel, you are likely to be mostly running on the weeny little petrol motor. A good deisel vehicle will be vastly superior ..... weirdly we don't seem to do diesel hybrids. probably because they take to long to warm up so wouldn't pass emissions testing?

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They generally dont do long runs in the Camry,they have a Prado for that and tow with i

Even for us ,around town and long runs in our work utes,that are loaded almost on GVM,any type of hybrid would have little if any advantage over a diesel.

[QUOTE=vnx205;3264907]

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Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

The engine in a hybrid Camry is a 2.5 litre, hardly teeny weeny..

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Ever driven one?

They are pretty gutless.
We hired a Highlander in NZ for a few weeks last time we were there,a hybrid with that engine,and it was rediculously underpowered.
But i suppose they are pretty heavy anyway,it is what we have here called a Kluga.

It also probably depends on what you are used to,as well,i suppose.

[QUOTE=scarry;3264911]

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Originally Posted by vnx205

Ever driven one?

They are pretty gutless.
We hired a Highlander in NZ for a few weeks last time we were there,a hybrid with that engine,and it was rediculously underpowered.
But i suppose they are pretty heavy anyway,it is what we have here called a Kluga.

It also probably depends on what you are used to,as well,i suppose.

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I owned a 2016 Camry for several years until a change of circumstances necessitated a change.

It was far and away the most lively vehicle I have ever owned. In fact when I turned it off Eco mode, I felt uncomfortable. It made it respond unnecessarily quickly.

The Highander is a Kluger isn't it? If so, that was probably Toyota's worse choice for hybrid conversion. The Camry is quite a different beast.

EDIT: what I was trying to say.

Battery degredation in a hybrid is unlikely to be even noticed by the user unless a light on the dash comes on.

Degredation in an typical EV these days.. People are reporting less than 10% after hundreds of thousands of k's.. it might be noticed but that's still a pretty useful vehicle. Also in 10 years I expect charging infra will be better.

But in a BEV. AFAIK they typically have a range of 60-80k when new.. if you had a 20 or 30% degredation the customer would sure notice. Like in the original leaf.. if you don't start with much range small drops become a big issue. The battery chemistry they use in BEV's is often not disclosed and pretty murky... The typical japanese suppliers don't use LFP's AFAIK. PHEV's typically are tight on room so they need the space efficiency of the higher density chemistries if you have to fit in two complete drivetrains..

[QUOTE=vnx205;3264913]

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Originally Posted by scarry

I owned a 2016 Camry for several years until a change of circumstances necessitated a change.

It was far and away the most lively vehicle I have ever owned. In fact when I turned it off Eco mode, I felt uncomfortable. It made it respond unnecessarily quickly.

The Highander is a Kluger isn't it? If so, that was probably Toyota's worse choice for hybrid conversion. The Camry is quite a different beast.

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Not the same engine as the latest Hybrid at a guess,and lighter.

Klugar models before the hybrid were great as well,they were very lively.