Thread: EV general discussion

Tesla facing search warrants as US authorities probe fatal crash in Texas involving driverless car

Tesla facing search warrants as US authorities probe fatal crash in Texas involving driverless car - ABC News

Australians want to buy electric cars, but car makers say government policy blocks supply


Australians want to buy electric cars, but car makers say government policy blocks supply - ABC News

Surveys show Australians want to buy electric vehicles (EVs), but they continue to languish at less than 1 per cent of new car sales. What's going on?

The answer is complex and takes us down a twisting path of carbon targets, "super credits" and other matters that people outside the auto industry generally don't pay much attention to.

Price point is the main reason for many - we were discussing this at a neighbours place on Saturday night. About 5 or the 6 couples there said they’d have an EV as a second car in a flash if they weren’t so damn expensive and most middle income households (which make up the majority of our population) aren’t willing to spend those sort of dollars on a vehicle. Some secondary stuff too like the new tax the Vic government have levied on them to try and further make things harder, but the price was the primary reason. Until they are MUCH cheaper, the uptake will be low.

I’m hoping by the time I retire in 20 years or so they’ll be affordable by then (or replaced with other tech). Would make sense to have a good solar and battery setup and an EV for the weekly trip to the shops, etc but I can’t see me getting one before then.

The whole article could have been stated in one sentence.

"yes Australians would like to try them but they are too expensive."

I was astounded at the gall of the VW CEO who openly admitted that VW would not export to Australia as the EU penalties are so large that they have to try and sell every one in Europe. What did he want our government to do, put on bigger penalties than Europe to encourage them?

BTW I was talking debating with an acquaintance yesterday who has just bought a Model 3 Long Range at over $80K . I said to him That I didn't want to hear how cheap it was to run as everyone else was subsidizing him.
Anyway he told me that auto pilot on a Model 3 disengages if no hands on the steering wheel and will not reset for 24 hours. I don't know if true but if it is then the USA accident could not have happened as stated by the police although a Model Y may be different.

Regards PhilipA

Originally Posted by PhilipA

The whole article could have been stated in one sentence.

"yes Australians would like to try them but they are too expensive."

I was astounded at the gall of the VW CEO who openly admitted that VW would not export to Australia as the EU penalties are so large that they have to try and sell every one in Europe. What did he want our government to do, put on bigger penalties than Europe to encourage them?

BTW I was talking debating with an acquaintance yesterday who has just bought a Model 3 Long Range at over $80K . I said to him That I didn't want to hear how cheap it was to run as everyone else was subsidizing him.
Anyway he told me that auto pilot on a Model 3 disengages if no hands on the steering wheel and will not reset for 24 hours. I don't know if true but if it is then the USA accident could not have happened as stated by the police although a Model Y may be different.

Regards PhilipA

$80K for a car - that isn’t as good as a $35K car as far as spec goes - that’s a lot of fuel.

Having ridden in a Model 3 I thought the build quality was aweful compared to the likes of a modern Kia or Hyundai for example, much less a Euro car.

Sons Cerato GT and his partners Golf run rings around a Model 3 as far as comfort and spec goes but added together you still have around $8K change. They do 7LP100KM overall so that’s around 400,000KM you’d need to travel in the Model 3 to save money - ain’t going to happen.

There are many reasons to buy an EV, but to save money isn’t one of them.

If you want one and happy to pay, then great and I’m happy for them, and the savings on fuel after purchase are great, but you couldn’t buy one for that reason by running the numbers.

While CCP might be on the nose the Shanghai car show has lots of goodies BBC Version

BYD I know from their batteries which have been at the Battery Test Centre for years now. That they are the biggest Electric bus builder was a bit of a surprise

The battery powered drone for you is well worth the look

Jaguar electric! A XJ no less Jaguar'''s 50-year old XJ model to be electric-powered - BBC News

"The Jaguar XJ is to become an electric-powered car - after 50 years running on petrol or diesel. Jaguar Land Rover is facing flagging sales and says going electric is vital to its recovery strategy."

Listening to a big Venture Capital company in the Hydrogen space today was insightful. My ledger on FOLLOW the money is growing nicely.

Have to add the prices of EVs including the mega priced version is heading south faster than I would have predicted less than a year ago. Not suggesting price parity for many of them yet.

Edit 3 this is amazing data I think Electric Vehicle Sales Charts, Graphs, & Stats | CleanTechnica
The little EV I am about to pick up is not on any of the scales in that like showing world sales and deliveries. The MG ev yet is a hot seller in Australia which sort of shows how tiny and irrelevant we are to the work market at the moment. Recall thinking of going to Germany to buy a BMW bike. The cost here was such a premium it would have worked out cheaper. That just might be true with the premium pricing here for many things I think.

This is an interesting article that I just read on WUWT.
Seems the average USA citizen is not buying EVs either.

"EV’s not family workhorses, but short range second cars

2 hours ago
Charles Rotter
22 Comments

Range Anxiety: California study may be a downer for EV excitement as it shows that EV’s are driven half as much as internal combustion engine vehicles.
By Ronald Stein
Ambassador for Energy & Infrastructure, Irvine, California
With half of the EV’s in the entire country being located in California, the recent 2021 California study may be a downer for the EV excitement as it shows that EV’s are driven half as much as internal combustion engine vehicles. The study illustrates that EV’s are generally second vehicles and not the primary workhorse vehicle for those few elites that can afford them.
To date, zero and low emission vehicles are generally from the hybrid and electric car owners which are a scholarly bunch; over 70 percent of EV owners have a four-year college or post-graduate degree. This likely explains why the average household income of EV purchasers is upwards of $200,000.
If you are not in that higher educated echelon and the high-income range of society, and a homeowner or resident of a NEW apartment that has charging access there may not be an appetite for an EV. EV’s have yet to attain the status of being the family’s primary vehicle workhorse with their limited usage.

Another challenge for the EV growth is the EV charging dependence on intermittent electricity from wind and solar. Adding EV charging loads onto the grid that is becoming more unstable is like putting salt in the wound. Power outages are now commonplace in California and Texas with more to follow throughout the nation as we adjust to a life dependent upon the time of day and the weather.
The highly educated, and well compensated EV owners that take advantage of State and Federal subsidies are sparingly using their “green” vehicles. With them setting the pace, how will the middle-income and those on fixed incomes be able to buy into the EV evolution?
The California EV market is looking for the less fortunate to belly up and join the EV train. That may prove to be a financial challenge with 45 percent of the California population – that’s a whopping 18 of the 40 million residents of the state – being Hispanic and African American – having average incomes of less than half of present EV owners. Additionally, California has the highest homeless population which is the fifth largest percentage of homeless (behind D.C., New York, and Hawaii, and Oregon), and has the second highest poverty rate.
The unintended consequences Governor Newsom’s recent Executive order to ban the sale of gas-powered vehicles by 2035 may be an incentive for those least likely being able to afford a new car, or a second car, to continuously re-register their existing internal combustion vehicles.
Governor Newsom may have forgotten that whatever type of vehicles uses the roads, there are huge funding requirements for both California’s transportation infrastructure, and for the numerous environmental compliance programs that have come from the gas pumps. The state and federal subsidies help lower the price of EV’s, but EV owners do not pay any gas taxes for California’s almost 400,000 miles of roadways that are heavily dependent on road taxes from fuels that contribute more than $7 billion annually, the same tax base that will be diminishing in the decades ahead.

EV buyers hope to save from the cost of fuels as the all-in posted price of fuel at the pump includes non-transparent costs added to the actual fuel costs, such as: federal tax, excise tax, state tax, local sales tax, cap and trade program compliance costs, low-carbon fuel standard program compliance costs, and renewable fuels standard program compliance costs.
California’s Newsom may also have forgotten that his own Democrats overwhelmingly defeated Senator John Moorlach’s sponsored SB 1074 in 2018 “Disclosure of government-imposed costs” at the pump. The Supermajority Democrats in the legislature remain content with non-transparency of the numerous costs that are “dumped” onto the posted price of fuel, as they are content with keeping the public blissfully ignorant of the many taxes and regulatory costs that drive up prices, to the point that Californians continue to pay almost $1.00 more per gallon of fuel than the rest of the country. An Exxon gas station recently expressed their “transparency opinion” at the pump.
EV buyers beware that the “tax equalizer”, the “VMT” is coming. The Vehicle Mileage Tax (VMT) that has been discussed for years sounds like a logical idea – requiring the users of the highways to pay the fees to maintain those highways. The VMT tax will be needed to replace the $7 billion annually from fuel sales that will be diminishing in the decades ahead.

The challenge for a VMT will be how to implement that great idea which may require annual odometer readings! Lookout for Governor Newsom’s next Executive Order for a VMT requiring annual odometer readings so that each person pays their fair share to maintain the roads they are using to replace the diminishing fuel taxes!
In the United States there were17 million vehicles of all types sold in 2019. EV sales were a dismal 2 percent of the total, i.e., about 350 thousand. California new car sales were more than 10 percent of the nation as California vehicle sales have exceeded 2 million for three straight years.
In a recent Los Angeles Times article, citing Edmunds data, The number of battery-electric models available more than doubled from 2018 to 2019, but EV sales budged in the wrong direction. In response to the major efforts by manufacturers, the horrific EV sales data shows that only 325,000 electric and plug-in hybrid vehicles were sold in the U.S. in 2019, down from 349,000 in 2018. As mentioned previously, half of all EV’s in America are in one state – California. The rest of the country seems to be less enthralled with EV’s. Are EV carmakers driving off a cliff?”

If the California trend of EV’s being low mileage driven second vehicles, and not being the family workhorse vehicles for the higher income owners, when and how will the lower income earners join the EV excitement?
Ronald Stein, P.E.​ Ambassador for Energy & Infrastructure"

Regards PhilipA

Range anxiety and load capacity is a issue. Chatting with a very helpful sparky installing a charge point for me Thursday. His work ute loaded has more than load/space needs than any available option. Oddly the range would not be an issue for him. Affordable and fit for purpose was the sticking point for more than a few. Suspect the options changing rapidly in the US is a very likely cyatlyst to see both those issues resolved.

Our occasional or frequent 4wd requirement is mixed in of course. That said most Landrovers do not seem to ever get dirty around here Have to dig my MT tires out for some fun soon.