Thread: EV general discussion

John posted so I had a look. Seems it was a Mercedes

http://Luton firehttps://www.dailyma...re-moment.html


It was driving not charging or parked apparently. PIC 49!


German Tech? Might be "Mercedes-Benz is using NCM 811 lithium-ion cells (cathode active material consists of nickel, cobalt and manganese in a ratio of 8:1:1) in pouch cells or hard-case/prismatic type. There can be 10 or 12 modules (90 and 108 kWh versions). The overall architecture is 400-volt."

As said this many times. This is OLD school compared to what QuatumScape, Toyota and the biggest almost but not solid state Chinese brand have all got on the road in testing now!
It may or may not be better than the battery on charge under me right now

This maybe a problem for the Japanese Navy in the future - with battery technology advancing, they have decided to stay conventional and the new Taigei class of submarine is powered by Lithium Ion batteries instead of the traditional lead acid batteries normally used.

The results are enhanced silent operations, better speeds and sprints, longer underwater endurance, and significantly greater overall performance when compared with more conventional undersea submarines.

They have tried to mitigate the fire risk which is deadly to submarines - but the risk must still be high.

Yes, but there are major risks to many military machines from fuel and ordnance. Consider the number of warships lost over the years due to ordnance malfunctions, including submarines, or aircraft lost due to in flight fires whether due to enemy action or not.

OK, batteries are an additional risk, certainly, but the improved performance may well be considered worth it.

Morning Cherry misfire? Not on Ports Vic Schedule at all?
Ship movements | Victorian Ports Corporation (Melbourne)
32K per day cost is an ouch! Thank you for the Number.

Perhaps there is a just in case emergency docking list


Fires on ships, subs planes any where are NOT good. The necessity to have Lithium with a liquid catalyst battery like most of us are wearing on our wrist and carrying in our phones is clearly normally very low risk? Happily it is changing fast soon. And Charging Very Fast soon

I did see some statistics on fire risk which were incredibly boring despite the sensational reporting of any fires from almost any source or type or cause. That was why I have RFX Flow Batteries at work. I was paranoid perhaps

when I was learning to fly , much mention was made of thermal runaway in aeroplane batteries. Seems general aviation has got the better of this in over 100yrs of aeroplane production. I have never heard of a lead-acid battery having a thermal runaway in a motor vehicle , but guess it does. Up until a few years ago, the vast number of electric vehicles mostly industrial, but still , many hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of them used and still use lead-acid batteries. No problems. Why the problems with the new tech? Why are they having thermal runaways leading to fires?

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

. Why the problems with the new tech? Why are they having thermal runaways leading to fires?

I dunno if you are familiar with an 18650 lithium cell. It looks a little like a AA batt, but slightly bigger. Couple of years ago I was attempting to replace three of these in a 12v drill battery ( note to self, do this when sober ) and I shorted two of them.... The energy in these things has to be seen to be believed. First they became too hot to touch, so I grabbed some tongs and threw them outside. They then burst into flames and burned until there was nothing left. It was bloody scary. Two cells could have burned my house down. Water does NOT extinguish them, rather like phosphorous in that sense. Multiply this by the number of cells in an EV batt.

In Richard Hammond's rather famous accident in the Rimac, the battery cascade fire burned for five DAYS. They just keep reigniting.

People can talk about "cooling" all they like, but if one of these things becomes compromised stand well back and watch it burn.

From 4:20

Originally Posted by ramblingboy42

when I was learning to fly , much mention was made of thermal runaway in aeroplane batteries. Seems general aviation has got the better of this in over 100yrs of aeroplane production. I have never heard of a lead-acid battery having a thermal runaway in a motor vehicle , but guess it does. Up until a few years ago, the vast number of electric vehicles mostly industrial, but still , many hundreds of thousands or perhaps millions of them used and still use lead-acid batteries. No problems. Why the problems with the new tech? Why are they having thermal runaways leading to fires?

The Lithium Liquid catalyst is the problem. It can be unstable. It is " liquid electrolyte composed of lithium salts dissolved in a solvent, such as ethylene carbonate or propylene carbonate"

We all know how flammable some of those parts can be!

There is some less flammable types and also newer semi solid state out now and real solid state which do not have those flammable compounds! The key in safety is usually in the Charge rate possible. My car cannot go over 50Kw P hour even if plugged into 350kWh chargers. BYD is similar with "50kWh (Battery) versions can accept up to 70kW of DC charging, while models fitted with the bigger extended battery can take 80kW."

The about to be here "CATL launches 500 Wh/kg condensed matter battery

" it MAY be "CATL has designed a "fully nano-crystallized lithium iron phosphate cathode material to create a super electronic network, which facilitates the extraction of lithium ions and the rapid response to charging signals.""Fast ion ring" technology has been deployed on the graphite electrodes, creating more metaphorical freeway lanes and shortening travel distances for the lithium ions as they travel toward and away from the active surfaces. And a new "superconducting electrolyte formula" reduces viscosity, helping ions move charge more rapidly.
CATL says the battery will charge from 0-80% in 10 minutes, unlocking up to 400 km (249 miles) of driving range in a single, very quick stint on a fast charger. That's at normal temperatures; take things down below freezing to -10 °C (14 °F), and an 80% charge using built-in battery heating will take you 30 minutes. The company says that low temperatures won't affect the battery's ability to deliver its full power to the wheels if needed."


It is not Solid state! Close The car sitting out side Port Phillip heads can charge at "135kW" That will make the charging almost 3 times faster than my current XS Ev at fast DC chargers! My Coffee breaks will have to be a LOT shorter

as stated- they cannot tow my boat yet!!!

Originally Posted by Tombie

Chatting with an owner, perhaps you can confirm…

Tesla Model 3 Long Range.

Owner says he was told / recommended to use 80-90% charge to help preserve the battery life. Supercharging is hard on the battery and shortens this life if used regularly and a 7kwh is the preferred option?

In 3 years and nearing 100,000km he’s down 15% below the claimed range (according to dash) and in reality gets less than that with 400-425km the normal (quoted 629km)

This vehicle is used regularly for runs to his shack up here near Whyalla from Adelaide, so for those runs is charged to 100% and he’s getting close to not making it on a single charge. Eg, once he gets to the shack he’s on charge overnight before he heads into town. His solution is a small 4cyl runabout for when he gets here.

He loves the power, handling and comfort. And back home it’s perfect for him - he has an 18kwh array and 3 Tesla batteries on his house so no charge issues.

My question: Are people really willing to accept spending such money on a vehicle that is <80% capable of its claim and then within 5 years is even less capable again?

People went mental when phones started losing charge capacity. These current EVs don’t even seem to start with the capability claimed and slide quite notably from there.

I’m also puzzled how one of the big statistics companies quotes (USD) a Tesla annual maintenance cost about 15-20% higher than the average of other similar sized vehicles? Besides a check over, maybe some greasing, battery coolant service etc. what’s the annual cost?

Sure, tyres, what else? And at end of warranty kms allow a full suspension replacement - that’s just wear and tear and should be done…

So a few points.

What is indicated on the range thing is some weird EPA thing which might be affected by operation. Use the one in energy monitor for a more realistic estimate.

If your friend really thinks he's had 15% degradation after 100k (and that's more than is normal) then perhaps he could consider doing the battery test in service mode. If he's seeing a reduction in range I'd be suggesting the most likely outcome is he's "enjoying the power" or has done something to mess with the aerodynamics (roof rack, wheels etc).

Either way.. he has the NMC battery. They don't recommend charging it to 100% unless you need the range. If you do then charge before you leave and don't worry about it. Just don't charge it to 100 and leave it sitting for a week. As to the charging speed - people supercharge all the time. Unless you are doing it continually I wouldn't worry about it. Most of the public chargers in QLD are "only" 50kwh which isn't that fast. This sounds a lot like someone who dislikes EV's looking for problems.

I'm not super familiar with SA, but a quick look on the map indicates it's about 400k. Which frankly the defender would have to be filled to do a return trip. I note that there isn't a lot of public fast chargers along the way but it must have been noted as the RAA I see has planned 6 fast charger sites along the route. Hopefully it sounds like he'll be able to stop for a leg stretch and get all the power he needs along the way.


Have a read of this. Personally I'm not too worried. I don't regularly test the limits of my cars range, so if it does have a little degradation I'm not worried. Mine has the LFP battery anyway which isn't supposed to degrade much. By then I will have saved so much on fuel and servicing I don't think I'll be worried. If people are really wanting to test the range of their 10year old EV.. perhaps thats a fringe case. By then I expect chargers will be common.

A Study on Real-Life Tesla Battery Deterioration | NimbleFins

As to the servicing costs.. I've no idea. There aren't really any scheduled services. There is a guy on one of the groups who is an uber driver.. he's up to 220k or something like that and has spent a couple hundred on cabin filters and some minor sundries. He reports the factory brake pads sill have over half thickness. Again.. it would appear that is one of the big advantages of Tesla is low service costs. The only thing I can think of against that is the tyres are pretty expensive, but probably pretty similar compared to other like vehicles.

As to replacing all the suspension after 4 years.. maybe if you are a high mileage person but it sounds a bit extreme. I guess if you drive a lot.. like any other car.