Thread: EV general discussion

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

I have never said anyone should own an old car. You will struggle to find a mechanic often. I'm just saying, nothing it as simple and cut and dried as the goverment wants. I actually think the aim of electric cars is to remove the ability of "poor" people to own private transport (especially in countries such as the UK).

This is fine and good, let make the policy makers first lead by example. They can try using public transport and not own a car, then decide on how they would like these policies.

I keep coming across as anti-ev. I'm not, I'm fascinated with all cars. We just shouldn't be investing or gifting tax payers money to them. I would have thought covid would be a wake up call to everyone ... it wasn't. Maybe this latest fuel scare will be.... I bet once its past everyone will forget. We simply can't rely on importing "stuff" to survive. Without local industry (I always just though industry) we are in dire straights. It never occured to me how 100% reliant we now are on fuel importation for our way of life. Everything, roads, fertalisers, housing, cloths, the glasses on your face. All rely on oil. Scary isn't it? We are back to burning wood around a fire, while living in a wood hut if there is no oil. Its pretty remarkable how dependent we are.

seeya
Shane L.

I'm all for an equal playing field - but as long as it is actually an equal playing field.

We currently have massive carve outs on FBT and depreciation for utes. If/when those tax benefits are removed we can talk. The current FBT rules for EV's just even the playing field somewhat.

It's just what it is. If you incentivise one thing people will naturally go there.

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

OMG.. last night due to links from here I got a suggestion to a Topher Field video. LOL.

So I'm going to admit. I think this guy in this video is trying to provide some meaningful commentary. Some of his "facts" are probably a bit off. I think his understanding of economics is tenuous (I looked he has no training in the field). He completely misses the fact that the fuel market is not a free market - it has regulatory oversight.

None the less I do think he's bumbled towards a broadly correct conclusion. Australia runs on diesel. It's used by farmers, industry, power generation, land transport and light vehicles. So one of these groups is going to have to give, and he's right about who that's going to be.

His conclusion is "The price of fuel is not high enough to force retail consumers to change our behaviour. to park up, car pool, postpone the road trip..the price needs to go as high as it takes to make demand match supply"

I LOLed so hard. He just can't bring himself to say it. TO BUY AN EV SAVES FUEL FOR MORE IMPORTANT THNGS.



So then I googled his video on EV's. I shouldn't post it but here it is. This also made me LOL hard. I was watching it with the wife.

He starts with fuel economy and running costs. Says he has a diesel which uses 6l/100.. wife says "that's really economical". I said yes the Australian average is 10l/100. He concludes that his diesel is costing about $10 per 100.. I think this was pretty right. (of course now is different but that's not fair).

Then he talks about charging costs.. he says that ev's use on average 18kwh per hundred (wife says isn't ours 13?.. yes dear). He then said charging costs on average 70c (wife says that's not right.. quick check of a nearby supercharger.. .35c at 8pm.. and we only pay 8c at home right... yes dear). So he concludes that an EV costs $12/100. Wife says.. that's not right.. what do we pay? Tap tap on the calculator.. .$1.04 per hundred k's dear.

So then he got to servicing and even he could't spin in it.. he said $600 a year.. and wife said straight up .. but yeah every second year it's way more than that. Anyway even he had to admit that EV servicing costs are far far less.

Then he got to insurance... saying that EV's are heaps more. Wife says.. but the Tesla is less than what it was costing us for the golf.. and heaps less than the defender... yes dear.

Then he starts ranting about ev's being written off for software glitches?? WTF?

Then he got onto depreciation.. and we've just seen a video about people desperate to buy EV's.. she laughed.. can we watch something else?

If you don't know better it would be easy just to accept all his assertions as "facts". Very dubious stuff. That's the issue with the internet. You can find whatever opinion you want. The details matter.

You aren't comparing apples to apples. Both sides are right .... and both sides are wrong dependent on many variables. You can get cheap power ... you can get expensive power, You can get expensive fuel ... and very expensive fuel (Yay). who know what the future will bring. Power will absolutely increase in price (renwables not yet paid for), but fuel could be remarkably cheap ... or destructively expensive.... we have no control over which as a country. We do have control over our power costs. We know they will increase considerably in the near future, but it shouldn't double overnight like fuel can.

different cars are cheaper to insure, new cars are generally cheaper to insure ... older cars get more expensive and are mostly written off. More easily stolen cars are more expensive. There is no point comparing an old VW to a new car. Try a Tesla and equivelant 4 door passenger sedan in the same suburb. Now we are comparing apples to apples. Only still we are not, I consider a tesla a high performance vehicle (though I doubt insurers do). You really need to compare something like an MG throw-away to an MG with a wheezy petrol engine. Like for like.


I have no doubt the electric vehicle MUST be more expensive, simply because there is rules and regulation that must be followed for accident repair on one (it is what it is). Then again, who would want to steal one? So it might work out even. The insurance industry will work this out in time and adjust there premiums to match.

Lets just hope the morons stealing and burnings cars don't work out what a spectacular bonfire EV's make if they start torching them off

That topher guys did a phenominal overview on the overview of power in australia and why its so expensive. The reason is the batteries are setting the price 26% of the time. And given they can only output a pathetic miniscule amount of power for a tiny period of time, they set the entire markets pricing when used. Its just mind boggling the insanity of it. Nothing runs efficiently as everything has to work around the intermittant power available from the renewables.

Renewables appear to be great, but we should have capped them at 20% so they work efficiently with the existing infrastructure.

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

You aren't comparing apples to apples. Both sides are right .... and both sides are wrong dependent on many variables. You can get cheap power ... you can get expensive power, You can get expensive fuel ... and very expensive fuel (Yay). who know what the future will bring. Power will absolutely increase in price (renwables not yet paid for), but fuel could be remarkably cheap ... or destructively expensive.... we have no control over which as a country. We do have control over our power costs. We know they will increase considerably in the near future, but it shouldn't double overnight like fuel can.

different cars are cheaper to insure, new cars are generally cheaper to insure ... older cars get more expensive and are mostly written off. More easily stolen cars are more expensive. There is no point comparing an old VW to a new car. Try a Tesla and equivelant 4 door passenger sedan in the same suburb. Now we are comparing apples to apples. Only still we are not, I consider a tesla a high performance vehicle (though I doubt insurers do). You really need to compare something like an MG throw-away to an MG with a wheezy petrol engine. Like for like.


I have no doubt the electric vehicle MUST be more expensive, simply because there is rules and regulation that must be followed for accident repair on one (it is what it is). Then again, who would want to steal one? So it might work out even. The insurance industry will work this out in time and adjust there premiums to match.

Lets just hope the morons stealing and burnings cars don't work out what a spectacular bonfire EV's make if they start torching them off

That topher guys did a phenominal overview on the overview of power in australia and why its so expensive. The reason is the batteries are setting the price 26% of the time. And given they can only output a pathetic miniscule amount of power for a tiny period of time, they set the entire markets pricing when used. Its just mind boggling the insanity of it. Nothing runs efficiently as everything has to work around the intermittant power available from the renewables.

Renewables appear to be great, but we should have capped them at 20% so they work efficiently with the existing infrastructure.

Every ones experience will be different which is why him stating a simple position is not helpful.

We've been through this... EV's at or around price parity now. If I were to buy a similar sized car to a Model Y from a premium european the Tesla will be cheaper. So the insurance thing is a furphy.

As this guy says.. they are much of a muchness to repair.

https://youtu.be/LRyGz2A5Xac?si=CX6JOk0Ezia-eO-h

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

I'm all for an equal playing field - but as long as it is actually an equal playing field.

We currently have massive carve outs on FBT and depreciation for utes. If/when those tax benefits are removed we can talk. The current FBT rules for EV's just even the playing field somewhat.

It's just what it is. If you incentivise one thing people will naturally go there.

We have done this before. You are talking work vehicles than "build" australia. You do have me endlessly searching for twin cab utes. I drove from ballarat to portarlington and back over the last few days. Little of the heavy traffic through geelong is twin cab utes. I figured the caravan park at portarlington would be FULL of them. There was barely any. chinese 4wds, cruisers, range rovers, pajeros, cars .... I'll have to try in peak times. I was assuming I'd find 90% twin cabs, not 10%.

the roads were all .... not full of twin cabs. endless small generic plastic blobs .... a remarkable number of single cab utes (how have I never noticed how many of these there actually are on the roads).

Where are all the twin cab utes hiding? given the sales data and extreme bias I see on this thread towards them, why aren't they everywhere?

Originally Posted by Captain_Rightfoot

Every ones experience will be different which is why him stating a simple position is not helpful.

We've been through this... EV's at or around price parity now. If I were to buy a similar sized car to a Model Y from a premium european the Tesla will be cheaper. So the insurance thing is a furphy.

As this guy says.. they are much of a muchness to repair.

https://youtu.be/LRyGz2A5Xac?si=CX6JOk0Ezia-eO-h

There is no "diffuclty" to actually repair them This part is irrelivant. I could repair an EV with light accident damage, just like I could with my cars here. The actual repair is irrelivant.

Damaged EVs must be stored in the open 15 meters from the nearest vehicle or building. Imagine your local smash repairs, they have all the cars behind the shop parked door handle to door handle, bumper to bumper. They just about have to climb in the windows to get into them as they are parked so close together. I have seen pictures of EVs parked spaced out in farm paddocks. There is an alternative I guess



Nothing is as simple as it seems as soon as you add in a giant battery, that more or may not have been comprimised in an accident. Imagine fixing a car, and having it torch off in someone house 3 months down the track. Who is liable? the repairers ... the insurance company ... the owner ?

Just think of your local largest supermarket carpark, and think how spaced out the cars would need to be if there was 15meters between each car in every direction ... It become almost immediatly impossible to store accident damaged electric vehicles.

Then we have the parts issues. My father loves his electric throw-away. though his neighbours throw-away has hit 2 kangoroos now. They just can't fix the damn thing, there is no parts in the country. It has been off the road for months on end. I don't really consider this an "EV" thing (though it certainly IS). Its more a modern vehicle with point of manufacture and no aftermarket support thing.

insurers appear to be writing EVs off as they don't want the liability.

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/c...-in-australia/

Why electric vehicles are being written off over minor battery damage | CarExpert

Warning over growing EV graveyards as major change looms for Aussie electric car industry - Yahoo News Australia


We can't hide from the fact, an impact affected battery maybe comprised. The first article states "average" ev insurance is $2200 a year.... I think I'm paying about $2600 a year ....... That is to insure seven cars. But hey, I'm sure your old VW is more expensive

You can't really argue with that video can you. I hate it when people talk common sense and its not what you want to hear If industry does use 80% of the diesel, the only place we can reduce the usage is personal transport. industry will just pay whatever needs to be paid, and pass on the costs.

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

You can't really argue with that video can you. I hate it when people talk common sense and its not what you want to hear If industry does use 80% of the diesel, the only place we can reduce the usage is personal transport. industry will just pay whatever needs to be paid, and pass on the costs.

What's that elephant in the room.. that can't be mentioned..

Originally Posted by DoubleChevron

There is no "diffuclty" to actually repair them This part is irrelivant. I could repair an EV with light accident damage, just like I could with my cars here. The actual repair is irrelivant.

Damaged EVs must be stored in the open 15 meters from the nearest vehicle or building. Imagine your local smash repairs, they have all the cars behind the shop parked door handle to door handle, bumper to bumper. They just about have to climb in the windows to get into them as they are parked so close together. I have seen pictures of EVs parked spaced out in farm paddocks. There is an alternative I guess



Nothing is as simple as it seems as soon as you add in a giant battery, that more or may not have been comprimised in an accident. Imagine fixing a car, and having it torch off in someone house 3 months down the track. Who is liable? the repairers ... the insurance company ... the owner ?

Just think of your local largest supermarket carpark, and think how spaced out the cars would need to be if there was 15meters between each car in every direction ... It become almost immediatly impossible to store accident damaged electric vehicles.

Then we have the parts issues. My father loves his electric throw-away. though his neighbours throw-away has hit 2 kangoroos now. They just can't fix the damn thing, there is no parts in the country. It has been off the road for months on end. I don't really consider this an "EV" thing (though it certainly IS). Its more a modern vehicle with point of manufacture and no aftermarket support thing.

insurers appear to be writing EVs off as they don't want the liability.

https://www.drive.com.au/caradvice/c...-in-australia/

Why electric vehicles are being written off over minor battery damage | CarExpert

Warning over growing EV graveyards as major change looms for Aussie electric car industry - Yahoo News Australia


We can't hide from the fact, an impact affected battery maybe comprised. The first article states "average" ev insurance is $2200 a year.... I think I'm paying about $2600 a year ....... That is to insure seven cars. But hey, I'm sure your old VW is more expensive[/QUOTE]

It's just not a problem. I'm sure an accident damaged car has caught fire somewhere. ICE cars catch fire all the time and no one cares.

This is why everyone thinks your anti EV. Becuase you just are. Any logical person would be able to see the qantum of the problem. If there was a press article every time a LR torched ..

Here in Australia, EV FireSafe has recorded 12 EV battery fires (the latest data is as of to 22 October 2025: 2 due to arson. 3 from garage fires spreading to the car. 5 high speed collisions, including one impact from road debris.

https://www.drive.com.au/news/do-ele...-myths-busted/

Electric cars, of which there are now more than 40 million worldwide, are considered by EV Firesafe to be between 20 to 80 times less likely to catch fire than an internal combustion-engined (ICE) vehicle.

[QUOTE=DoubleChevron;3265375]
Those ice cars must be super unreliable if you need seven of them. I know the feeling. That's why I need one reliable EV.

So did you consider that this is not so much an EV problem as a chinese car problem? My friend has just had her BYD repaired after waiting for 5 months for parts. It's a PHEV.

This is not an EV problem.. this is a chinese car problem..

https://www.drive.com.au/news/prime-...ew-car-brands/

In three years of tesla ownership I've only needed a few parts, and all have been on the shelf same day.