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Thread: Carbon Border adjustments. The conversation that we must have.

  1. #1
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    Carbon Border adjustments. The conversation that we must have.

    Carbon border adjustments, what are they, and how will they effect Australia. This is a conversation we must have, if only to inform ourselves.

    EDIT. While the Australian Government continues to push its ' technology not taxes ' slogan, it raises very significant tax revenue to fund support for continued use of fossil fuels. But they are taxes on the income and other activities of households and businesses instead of taxes on pollution.



    Carbon border adjustments: What are they and how will they affect Australia? | RenewEconomy
    I’m pretty sure the dinosaurs died out when they stopped gathering food and started having meetings to discuss gathering food

    A bookshop is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking

  2. #2
    DiscoMick Guest
    Other developed nations are preparing to levy carbon taxes on imports which were produced using methods which have high emissions. Australian exports, unless they were produced using renewable energy, I may be priced out of their markets. This is why steel and aluminum producers are already moving to source their electricity from solar, wind, hydro, batteries etc.

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    Cheers
    Travelrover

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    Another one from NZ.

    New Zealand Aluminium Smelters in Tiwai Point (approx 80% owned by rio tinto) are going to close by 2024 due to electricity costs. They are almost 100% renewable and yet cannot do it. Transmission and distribution costs are the crunch for them even with various NZ govt hand outs and govt majority owned power company giving them very favourable pricing.

    Tiwai Point Aluminium Smelter - Wikipedia

    Home, New Zealand's Aluminium Smelter, Tiwai Point, Manapouri Power Station

    Rio tinto have effectively run out of hustle. They have blackmailed the country a few times threatening to close and lose jobs over electricity costs. Each time till recently the govt stepped up and subsidised them for another few years. They use approx 13% of NZ total electricity, 33% of the total South Island electricity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by windsock View Post
    Another one from NZ.

    New Zealand Aluminium Smelters in Tiwai Point (approx 80% owned by rio tinto) are going to close by 2024 due to electricity costs. They are almost 100% renewable and yet cannot do it. Transmission and distribution costs are the crunch for them even with various NZ govt hand outs and govt majority owned power company giving them very favourable pricing.

    Tiwai Point Aluminium Smelter - Wikipedia

    Home, New Zealand's Aluminium Smelter, Tiwai Point, Manapouri Power Station

    Rio tinto have effectively run out of hustle. They have blackmailed the country a few times threatening to close and lose jobs over electricity costs. Each time till recently the govt stepped up and subsidised them for another few years. They use approx 13% of NZ total electricity, 33% of the total South Island electricity.
    If I remember correctly when it opened they had a guaranteed ridiculously low electricity ‘fixed price’ for 30 years. A new pricing regimen will have been in place for the past two decades… I assume the new price is at market rates.
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    Quote Originally Posted by travelrover View Post
    I assume the new price is at market rates.
    We have been assured it is a very good industrial rate but it hasn't been divulged due to commercial sensitivity etc. Forsyth Barr estimated it at around 3.5 NZ cents per kWh.

    Broker believes Tiwai smelter beat down Meridian on power price by 36% | Stuff.co.nz

    Residential customers here pay between 25 to 35 cents per kWh. 'Normal' industrial users can usually negotiate a rate if their use is large enough and this is around 8 to 15 cents per kWh. Wholesale market rate averages around 6-10 cents per kWh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DiscoMick View Post
    Other developed nations are preparing to levy carbon taxes on imports which were produced using methods which have high emissions. Australian exports, unless they were produced using renewable energy, I may be priced out of their markets. This is why steel and aluminum producers are already moving to source their electricity from solar, wind, hydro, batteries etc.

    China's carbon cutback plans are already impacting the resources sector. Science states if no new fossil fuel developments were approved, carbon emissions from existing projects would still push the globe over the 1,5 degree threshold. Deloitte says mining and metals organisations were coming under public pressure early to reduce greenhouse emissions as part of preserving a public licence to operate. Renewable electricity is rapidly descending the cost curve. China will likely reduce it's overall energy imports by 95% in 30 years. it is estimated China needs to increase its use of non fossil energy by 80% of its total energy consumption and reduce its coal reliance for power generation to below 5% , in order to reach its target of carbon neutrality by 2060.

    This information is from inqld.;

    China's carbon cutback plans already impacting resources sector: ANZ (inqld.com.au)
    I’m pretty sure the dinosaurs died out when they stopped gathering food and started having meetings to discuss gathering food

    A bookshop is one of the only pieces of evidence we have that people are still thinking

  8. #8
    DiscoMick Guest
    The G7 also decided no more coal power stations.

  9. #9
    DiscoMick Guest
    This writer argues Australia could do very well from foreign carbon levies if we use our natural advantages to shift to using renewable energy to produce green exports.

    Ready or not: a carbon price on exports is coming to Australia - Pearls and Irritations

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    Quote Originally Posted by windsock View Post
    Another one from NZ.

    Rio tinto have effectively run out of hustle. They have blackmailed the country a few times threatening to close and lose jobs over electricity costs. Each time till recently the govt stepped up and subsidised them for another few years. They use approx 13% of NZ total electricity, 33% of the total South Island electricity.
    How many times did the auto industry do that to the feds here in oz and especially Mitsubishi with the SA state guvvy.

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