Would Australia have enough Electricity (now) if everyone switched to EV ?

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Lithium isn’t the major component in the batteries. [emoji41]

It’s even rarer elements that are the challenge.

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Ah! my mistake .. I thought approx 100kg per average EV pack .. but it's only 10kg.

But the point still holds.

Remember the hypothetical proposed tho .. if Aus were to wholesale change (say) by banning ICE vehicle sales, and remembering that the Europeans have already planned for this in 13 years time.

if there are now 900,000 new EV required for sale .. this being additional requirements, that would still need an extra 9,000 tons of additional lithium mined over what they did before the additional EVs were required to get to the market place.
This doesn't factor in any new house batteries like Tesla's and LG and so on .. nor the increased volumes of 'devices' power requirements.

Approx 10 million new vehicles are sold in Europe per annum. 20% currently EVs or PHEVs .. so approximately 2 million EVs sold currently in Europe.
When the time comes and those 8-ish million additional EVs are needed to satisfy demand, 80,000 tons of additional lithium will be required to manufacture batteries for those vehicles.
I'm curious as to how much lithium gets recycled .. because in terms of personal devices ... not a lot does ... just goes to landfill and catches fire!

Yep. You’re seeing the broader issues.

I find it odd that the vast majority of the anti mining crowd see EVs as our saviour. STOP ADANI!. Oh, you want to dig up Wodgina or Pilgangoora? Fine, knock yourselves out.

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Originally Posted by Tombie

Lithium isn’t the major component in the batteries. [emoji41]

It’s even rarer elements that are the challenge.

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And we know who produces and controls most of the rare earth minerals……[emoji630]
America has just invested $30,000,000

The new US plan to rival China'''s dominance in rare earth metals

Australia has opportunity and should follow America’s lead

Australia’s opportunity to manufacture rare-earth magnets | The Strategist

The bigger environmental concern is the comment on volume required by 2030.

If you consider the amount of earth needing to be chewed up to get to over 400,000t of refined material - that’s an absolutely enormous mining, processing and over-burden/waste generating exercise.

There is no “green” in any of this.

Yes - amount of ground that has to be dug up would be incredible.

As previously mentioned there does not seem to be any balanced long term review of strategy / balance.

EU dictating no more ICE cars could be just kicking the can further down the road.

I would like an electric car but would also have a ICE car for towing, long distance & off road.

Would also like to know the positives & negatives of both cars on the environment, social responsibility etc.

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Originally Posted by AK83

and remembering that the Europeans have already planned for this in 13 years time.

i!

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Supposedly,but don’t be surprised if there are going to be quite a few backflips.

Lithium is not a particularly rare element, rare earths are somewhat rarer, but needed in much smaller quantities. The issue with them is the processing - which is difficult, expensive and very difficult to do economically and meet environmental rules in first world countries - which is why China has the market tied up. An Australian owned plant in Malaysia has, I believe, been shut down on environmental grounds. The major issue is that the waste from processing is mildly radioactive.

when I first worked at Olympic Dam it was owned by Western Mining and they processed rare earth minerals and were proud of it.

I think when BHP took over they stopped processing rare earth minerals and focussed on increasing copper and yellowcake production.

There is a fortune in rare earth minerals in the dumps and no doubt the big australian would also know this. They also knowingly leave gold underground so when copper runs out in the year 2525 they have a fall back.

I do believe there is also a lot of sniffing around Broken Hill for some of these special minerals that were left behind in silver/lead/zinc heydays , cobalt being one mined there now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Tombie

The bigger environmental concern is the comment on volume required by 2030.

If you consider the amount of earth needing to be chewed up to get to over 400,000t of refined material - that’s an absolutely enormous mining, processing and over-burden/waste generating exercise.

There is no “green” in any of this.

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Realistically since were are not going back to pre industrial revolution (walking) the only green is a significant depopulation event.