Thread: Solar Electric for the home

Originally Posted by bee utey

To use the power from a set of grid connect panels you need a different inverter and a battery bank. Not cheap.

I don't see why a battery bank is needed though?

If the grid interactive inverter is able to provide power at 50Hz in phase with the grid, why can't it power household appliances in the same way when not connected to the grid?

Where exactly is that page, Philip?

I want to ask my solar supplier about it.

Solar Bonus Scheme Questions & Answers - EnergyAustralia

See question 3

Energy Australia say in their blurb that customers have saved !! introducing TOD. I recall reading recently that Victoria has suspended roll out of smart meters due to complaints and I read a couple of months ago in the NYT that in Texas? the same had occurred with customers paying up to 40% more. Hard to see how you can save unless you wash after 10PM or rearrange your life around automated turning on in the middle of the night for dishwashers etc.

Thanks Philip. I just checked my meters and they are digital style (Landis and Gyr CM100 not, I assume, Type 6 meters - see Landis+Gyr | Products) so I hope I won't move to the timed tariff.

I really have to wonder if Energy Australia are feeding us a line with their figures on happy customers with reduced bills.

Originally Posted by PhilipA

Can you please clarify a point that I am SURE I saw in one ad but no others.

It stated that a condition for accepting the NSW and federal bonuses was that the electricity from the grid would be charged at "Time of Day" metering with AFAIR tariffs of 35c per kw hour from 4 to 8 PM, and lower tariffs at other times, AFAIK 13c and 7c 11PM-6AM.

I have looked at the FAQs on the NSW State Government site but no mention there.

Seeing the "feed in" tariff stays constant at 60c per Kwh for 7 years, as per NSW FAQs, surely this will have a great effect on the investment return, if "time of day" tariffs go up by the percentages indicated in NSW ie 33%.

Experience in the USA and Victoria suggest that "time of day" tariffs increase bills by approx 40% compared with "dumb" metering, so is it that what the government gives with one hand it taketh away with the other???

Regards Philip A

Quite correct Phillip A

It is important to shop around the various energy retailers (and not just the "traditional" supplier of last resort which is the same as your energy distributor) to get the best deal. Certain energy retailers (e.g. Energy Australia) are certainly doing their best to maintain their profit margins by forcing those of us who chose to install solar onto Time of Use / Time of Day tariffs. However, there is a way around this....you do NOT have to buy your electricity from the electricity distributor (Energy Australia, Integral Energy, Country Energy), you can choose your retailer. Even if ToU capable metering is installed, you can still be on a normal retail tariff, it's just a case of picking the right retailer. I strongly suggest anyone considering installing a photovoltaic system (or who has one already) check with the various suppliers for the best deal. A list of all the retailers in NSW can be found here: Electricity suppliers in NSW
A couple of real life examples:
I installed a 1kW system for my friend in Campbelltown NSW - Integral Energy distribution area, he's with Integral Energy retail, existing spinning disk import meter retained - another spinning disk export meter installed for the PV system i.e GROSS metered. Standard tariff rates for import energy, 60c/kWh for export energy.
I installed a 1.5kW system on my rental property up at Lismore, NSW in June 2009- Country Energy distribution area, Country Energy retailer, existing spinning disk import meter changed for bi-directional digital import/export ToU capable meter i.e. NET metered. Standard tariff rates for import energy, 60c/kWh for export energy (in this case only the excess energy is exported, the house load may use some). This system will be upgraded to GROSS metered by Country Energy by 1st July 2010 and standard tariff import rate will still apply.

My retailer is AGL and I've tried asking them but they are bloody hopeless. The person who answered the phone didn't know about gross metering and the installation of equipment.

Originally Posted by p38arover

My retailer is AGL and I've tried asking them but they are bloody hopeless. The person who answered the phone didn't know about gross metering and the installation of equipment.

Same here, I gave them the flick as soon as the solar went on. I would try asking the Alternate Technology Association, Alternative Technology Association website, as they recently started a survey to find out how retailers were treating new solar customers and how they (weren't) dealing with complaints. Scary stuff.

To be bluntly honest about it folks, it's not really in the energy supplier's best interests to be open, up front and helpful about this is it? After all what we are doing is cutting their profit margins.

From my own experience the front-line customer service staff with most suppliers do not appear to have been given any sort of training or explanation of how to handle queries about these systems. That or they have only had it explained to them in terms of the specific supplier's "branded' system (e.g. up until recently Integral Energy used to refer to all grid connected renewable systems as "Sunpower" systems - bit confusing when you consider that SunPower is a major supplier of PV modules). The other problem is that the front-line staff are usually not technically trained - after all you don't want to pay an engineer to answer billing queries, even if you could manage to keep said engineer from going mad with boredom......I know that's why I left one fairly well paid technical sales rep position....that and people just will not READ the ^&%$##^& manuals.

That said, having spoken with policy level representatives from each of the energy distributors at a couple of installer conferences, the technical and legal issues are all well covered now and it's mostly a case of finding the right person to talk to. Once you DO find someone who knows about grid-connect PV systems they tend to be very knowledgeable.

My other suggestion would be to look at the Clean Energy Council listing of accredited installers here Clean Energy Council | Find an Installer and contact an installer who is located close to you. They should be willing to discuss various options and walk you through the application / installation / metering process - I know I certainly do with my clients.

If all else fails - feel free to drop me a PM and I'll help where I can.

Hey all,

Sorry I didnt catch this thread when it started!!

I've got a PV Grid Connect Solar System at my place - and have had for nearly two years now. I live in sunny Townsville (except wet season!), and can report that i've had no power bills since.

I'm averaging about 5.5kWh per day (some days are around the 7.5kWh, overcast days will net me about 3kWh). I have 8 panels and total max solar would be about 1.4kW, so it's not too bad, but its certainly not the biggest system out there! I'm in credit with Ergon. And any credit you make is non-taxable as it's "Green Energy".

What would I recommend?

I work week-home week-away, so my 'small' system is good enough for me, however if you have the Mrs and kids at home every day i'd suggest going for a 2kW system as a minimum. Depends on how much solar you can generate per day. I was using around 11kWh per day average before solar, now i'm down to about 7, but that includes weeks when i'm not here.

The key to making it work for you is this:

- Wash your clothes before the sun comes up or after it goes down. This way your using Grid power and not the precious solar power that you want to sell (as solar electricity pays more than it costs to use grid power - 44c/kWh in QLD).

- Turn off every power point that you dont need on. This includes the kettle, microwave, TV's use a VERY LARGE amount of power on standby, the computer. I leave my fridge running because I'd hate for the beer to be hot and milk to be curdled.

- In some areas the hot water and air conditioners will run on a second tarriff. This cannot be cancelled out by the solar electricity, or, in other words, you will always use Grid power for those, so if you insist on living indoors and using them during the day, then don't feel guilty as you'll still sell Solar electricity via the regular tarriff provided your not using it!

- Every month, get on your roof with a bucket of soapy water, the hose and a window cleaner. I often get up there to find more bat s$!t and dust than you can poke a stick at. It only takes about 5mins to give them a bath!

- Check your inverter and meter weekly to ensure you have no faults. I had an earth leakage fault on my inverter just after the first year which I didnt pick up for about 3weeks and that did effect how much I generated for those days.

- Cut down those trees that will cover them up!! If you don't want to cut them down, maybe just keep them pruned nicely! I'm lucky to have trees that won't get above 2m along my fences!

- Be power conscious! IF you have to use it, use it!! But if you dont need lights on during the day or can wait until sundown to use vacuums or pressure washers, then you'll do alright!

Hope i've been of some help!

Cheers
Keithy