The new F150.....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frantic

We've been through the figures before, but it boils down to for every dollar the Govt subsidised the car industry it saved/made between 2.5 and 3 dollars.
The car companies pay GST and tax when making a profit. They employ around 100-200,000 who all pay tax and spend their pay paying more GST, and other taxes. This figure alone is more than the support abbot cut. Then you factor in welfare to all those who are now unemployed and again that figure is greater than the support scheme that was cut. End result, more unemployed and needy.

Would you stop an investment plan that reduces your costs and increases your income by 2.5 times the amount you invested? We did:eek:

---

Business don't pay net GST. GST is only levelled against the final consumer, which means the government collects the same GST on car purchases regardless of whether they are made here or abroad.

And I don't know how you get the figure of 100-200k people supported by the subsidies. That must include an awful lot of people who are only marginally associated with car manufacturing in Australia, and would receive very little benefit from the subsidy. I think your maths is off, or has been done by the unions representing car manufacturers.

Protectionism vs free trade, we are drifting away from the technological marvels of the F150:p

If you want that debate there is a special corner for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TerryO

Frantic, believe what you like the thing is the industry is gone so whinging and pointing fingers at politicians you don't like won't bring it back.

Out of interest do you own at present a relatively new Commodore or a Falcon? If you do then apart from supporting local industry you own something most Australians aren't interested in buying.

The part you keep ignoring is most Australians stopped buying some time ago locally produced cars. So out of interest do you actually own a locally produced car?

---

I have but the point your missing is us being locked out of export markets. Would any luxo euro barge be made if it was just sold in Germany? How many of the e.u cars would continue in production if they where locked into only home soil sales?
In 2012 BMW and merc each sold just over 283,000 in Germany. They sell well over 12 different models of vehicles each ,with the large 5 series and e-class selling around 45-48,000 each. Now isn't that the figure that falcon sold last year? Why aren't they chopping that model, oops that's right they export. The Passat sold 89,000 about the Commodores number.
German Car Market dropped 16% in December 2012. BMW outpaced Mercedes. - Focus2Move

Actually I'm in a specific and very small market, I have owned 5 australian built cars, but with 7 members in my family there is nothing with enough room. I have owned aussie built that was the right size at the time. Small, we used to make corollas, I had a 2 year old aussie built one. Medium, I had a 3 year old Camry when it really was medium not like today where it's bigger than a commodore from 88. I've owned an older statesman and a , at the time , 3 year old one with a lovely v8:D that was as nice as a relos 7 series and it went far better.
The territory has 7 seats but no room for a 2 seat pram plus shopping, and how does a kid get in the boot seats over 2 -3 car booster seats in the middle row?We almost bought a D2 as well as my 9 seat def but ended up with a multi-van. A German built van that gets more subsidies than oz or the u.s;). But a lack of a plan killed our industry. Instead of building in 3-4 different classes to increase volume, they all focused on one area, which killed them when that shrunk.
The engine in my wife's multivan is also in the golf, Passat, transporter, amarok, various Audi models, ditto seat models, ditto Skoda models. All in different states of tune with anything from 100kw upto twin turbo donks.
Let's see, toyota fit 2 engines here, both of which are used in other well selling models, RAV4 , Kluger. As I said before the ranger could have been built here but it's 100% tax free where it's being built now. That would have given us the Everest on the same base and the potential to fit a falcon with either puma tdci engine. All of which would be good export earners.
Another missed opportunity was the closing of Pontiac brand. Holden could have been sold globally as Pontiac with a wide variety of models like BMW/ merc. But that boats sailed.
In another 10 years time I would have liked to get a newish holden, toyota or ford as well as my defender when we don't need so many seats, but that's going to be some other car now.

A little thought "The Germans are also looking at electric car subsidies. The Germans also subsidize their car industry to the tune of about $US95 per capita. A far cry from Australia's $AUD18. Not quite the $US260 the Americans pay per head"
Car industry subsidies in perspective | | MacroBusiness.
P.s it's not protectionism if your just matching other nations subsidies, it is true free trade ;)

F150 raptor slower to 60 than an aulro page goes to politics

Om so here is my dilemma and why I find the thought of a US made full size pickup appealing.
I currently have a D3 and a Falcon RTV ute which I drive regularly. we have 2 kids, 8 and 11 who have been dragged across the country (and the US) since they were in baby capsules. I am looking for a vehicle that will replace these two and will provide the following features:
1) A tray at least as large as the Falcon Ute
2) 3.5 tonne towing capacity
3) Capable of carrying the family on 4wd touring trips comfortably

The list that I have come up with so far is:
Currently unavailable at a reasonable price
F250 4x4 Dual Cab in a trim level that at least includes rear leather seats ( I have a disco 3 remember)
Dodge Ram dual cab
GMC Silverado Dual Cab

any of these can be had in the US for less than $60K

Available in OZ

130 Dual Cab - no creature comforts and every time I convince myself I could live with a defender I go for a ride in one
Toyota Dual cab 70 series. Pretty much the same as the Defender but I would have to drive a Toyota.
Iveco 4x4 - I would love one of these however the same grey vinyl interior applies and I could not sell it to the family as a touring vehicle.

So the sooner the government allows the import of a wider range of vehicles and dismantle the luxury car tax the happier I'll be. Even though they do not suit my needs I am astounded that the smaller dual cab utes like the Ranger, Colorado etc do not offer properly trimmed rear interiors as an option on anything other than the hero models.

My small glimmer of hope is that the new defender will offer something that is a reasonable performer in this space.

Regards,
Tote

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tote

Om so here is my dilemma and why I find the thought of a US made full size pickup appealing.
I currently have a D3 and a Falcon RTV ute which I drive regularly. we have 2 kids, 8 and 11 who have been dragged across the country (and the US) since they were in baby capsules. I am looking for a vehicle that will replace these two and will provide the following features:
1) A tray at least as large as the Falcon Ute
2) 3.5 tonne towing capacity
3) Capable of carrying the family on 4wd touring trips comfortably

The list that I have come up with so far is:
Currently unavailable at a reasonable price
F250 4x4 Dual Cab in a trim level that at least includes rear leather seats ( I have a disco 3 remember)
Dodge Ram dual cab
GMC Silverado Dual Cab

any of these can be had in the US for less than $60K

Available in OZ

130 Dual Cab - no creature comforts and every time I convince myself I could live with a defender I go for a ride in one
Toyota Dual cab 70 series. Pretty much the same as the Defender but I would have to drive a Toyota.
Iveco 4x4 - I would love one of these however the same grey vinyl interior applies and I could not sell it to the family as a touring vehicle.

So the sooner the government allows the import of a wider range of vehicles and dismantle the luxury car tax the happier I'll be. Even though they do not suit my needs I am astounded that the smaller dual cab utes like the Ranger, Colorado etc do not offer properly trimmed rear interiors as an option on anything other than the hero models.

My small glimmer of hope is that the new defender will offer something that is a reasonable performer in this space.

Regards,
Tote

---

You'd love the F250. I had 2 of them in the USA.....


Sent from my iPhone using AULRO mobile app

re: Thailand and the free trade agreement.....

The Thai's dropped import tariffs for cars, and suddenly things looked rosy for the Ford Territory, but then they introduced a new tax on vehicles with engines larger than 3 litres..... a very backhanded way of protecting thier own, but also very smart....

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sprint

re: Thailand and the free trade agreement..... The Thai's dropped import tariffs for cars, and suddenly things looked rosy for the Ford Territory, but then they introduced a new tax on vehicles with engines larger than 3 litres..... a very backhanded way of protecting thier own, but also very smart....

---

Southern Ireland played a similar card here in the EU. They had a charge for bringing in cars from the UK or elsewhere. This was set at a level to make buying a car from the UK uneconomic. Reason being to protect the local car dealers who were charging more than you could buy the same car in the UK. Seems that as a smaller market their costs are higher and so cannot compete with larger markets on price. Case taken to EU and charge had to be dropped as was not allowed under EU rules. Consumers did not win though as the Bureaucrats had a new first registration fee in place to go live before the old charge hand expired. New first registration fee still serves the same purpose of protecting local car dealers just that it is 'legal'.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tote

Om so here is my dilemma and why I find the thought of a US made full size pickup appealing.
I currently have a D3 and a Falcon RTV ute which I drive regularly. we have 2 kids, 8 and 11 who have been dragged across the country (and the US) since they were in baby capsules. I am looking for a vehicle that will replace these two and will provide the following features:
1) A tray at least as large as the Falcon Ute
2) 3.5 tonne towing capacity
3) Capable of carrying the family on 4wd touring trips comfortably

The list that I have come up with so far is:
Currently unavailable at a reasonable price
F250 4x4 Dual Cab in a trim level that at least includes rear leather seats ( I have a disco 3 remember)
Dodge Ram dual cab
GMC Silverado Dual Cab

any of these can be had in the US for less than $60K

Available in OZ

130 Dual Cab - no creature comforts and every time I convince myself I could live with a defender I go for a ride in one
Toyota Dual cab 70 series. Pretty much the same as the Defender but I would have to drive a Toyota.
Iveco 4x4 - I would love one of these however the same grey vinyl interior applies and I could not sell it to the family as a touring vehicle.

So the sooner the government allows the import of a wider range of vehicles and dismantle the luxury car tax the happier I'll be. Even though they do not suit my needs I am astounded that the smaller dual cab utes like the Ranger, Colorado etc do not offer properly trimmed rear interiors as an option on anything other than the hero models.

My small glimmer of hope is that the new defender will offer something that is a reasonable performer in this space.

Regards,
Tote

---

Umm you can get a F250 ,for about $120-140,000. Now being honest a D3 new is $70-120k, a leather packed one is at least $80k and a ford falcon ute is at least $35k so even with the cheapest models your in the same ballpark. Southern classic has 2 F350 diesels(134-139k) dual cabs with new 'ks and a very nice raptor dual cab (120k!!!)which ive driven past and a few times.
Welcome | Southern Classic Cars - New Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover, Range Rover, Volkswagen, Skoda, Suzuki, Nissan & Ford Cars (DL 19437)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by frantic

Umm you can get a F250 ,for about $120-140,000. Now being honest a D3 new is $70-120k, a leather packed one is at least $80k and a ford falcon ute is at least $35k so even with the cheapest models your in the same ballpark. Southern classic has 2 F350 diesels(134-139k) dual cabs with new 'ks and a very nice raptor dual cab (120k!!!)which ive driven past and a few times.
Welcome | Southern Classic Cars - New Audi, Jaguar, Land Rover, Range Rover, Volkswagen, Skoda, Suzuki, Nissan & Ford Cars (DL 19437)

---

That to me is just insane prices. I bought my 09 F350 FX4 diesel brand new fully loaded for less than 40k hahaha. Big price difference between here and back there....


Sent from my iPhone using AULRO mobile app