2018 Jeep Wrangler - 1 Star Euro NCAP rating.

Yeah nah yeah nah

Defender chassis is narrow. Driver and passengers are siting outside the chassis, protected by thin aluminum sheet and a few metal frame...Just image a Tbone just from a mini is enough to pop the tin can open.

D2 is pretty bad in head on crashes. Fifth Gear did a test and the Discovery was obliterated by a small car.

Don't really want to go there But the 1 star 2019 wrangler is still safer than D2 and Defender


Check thiout PYouTube
PYouTube

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Originally Posted by trout1105

I did a service on the D2a and the 79 series when I was up at King Ash Bay and in all seriousness the Chassis of the D2a looked to be more robust than the Toyota did.
I know that the Monique body/chassis are more crash "Friendly" But a truck with a proper chassis will most likely survive to live another day after a prang.

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[bigwhistle]

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D2 is pretty bad in head on crashes. Fifth Gear did a test and the Discovery was obliterated by a small car.

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I have hit roos, emu's and sheep with my D2a at speeds that would have destroyed just about any of the newer small cars without any damage whatsoever to the truck.
But Seriously the very Best safety improvement would be to have better drivers on the road, Having a 5 star ACAP rated car is pretty useless if the driver is useless.

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Originally Posted by martnH

Yeah nah yeah nah

Defender chassis is narrow. Driver and passengers are siting outside the chassis, protected by thin aluminum sheet and a few metal frame...Just image a Tbone just from a mini is enough to pop the tin can open.

D2 is pretty bad in head on crashes. Fifth Gear did a test and the Discovery was obliterated by a small car.

Don't really want to go there But the 1 star 2019 wrangler is still safer than D2 and Defender


Check thiout PYouTube
PYouTube

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Was that a D2 or a D1?

I knew the GQ/GU Patrol was bad in an offset frontal prang, the chassis will fold back and it compromises the passenger cell.

When I had a small prang in the D2 last year the smash repairer reckons they are much more robust in the rails than any modern ute which are designed to reform to meet impact tests, the downside is it dissent take much of an impact for the rails to deform which adds enormously to repair costs.
All I had to do was replace the bumper and stock push/bull bar (which folded back and slightly bowed the bonnet) but he reckoned of it was a current Hilux/BT/Ranger etc it would've been a $20k repair.

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Originally Posted by rick130

Was that a D2 or a D1?

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That Youtube clip has a D1 (ES) which is fitted with dual airbags - note the airbags did not go off - was there an issue with them or were they disabled by the makers to ensure they made their point about safety in older vehicles.

Garry

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Originally Posted by garrycol

D1... their point about safety in older vehicles.

Garry

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I remember seeing the Fifth Gear episode. Vaguely remember their camera pointing to the materials that had intruded into the drivers footwell after the crash, saying these things would have caused severe damage to the drivers legs. From memory it seems like it was a cardboard cover that gives a clean looking finish around the pedals, and possibly the thin plastic cover just under the steering wheel - hardly something that is going to cause significant injury.

Many years ago I looked up the NCAP rating for our D1 and our Toyota Corolla, both around the same year of manufacture. NCAP gave them both a rating of 1. Later I came across what I remember as maybe being Macquarie Uni rating system based on Australian/NZ injury rates sustained using both these vehicles - the D1 got a rating of 5, while the Corolla remained at 1. Unfortunately I have not been able to re-find this info as originally presented.

Being a bit lazy on researching at the moment so I assume the NCAP is a private company rating system and governments cannot mandate that car companies meet a particular NCAP rating if they are to sell a car? That car companies instead build to engineering standards like Aust Standard xxxx, or US Standard xxxx or International Standard xxxx? Otherwise I could see car companies creating their own off the shelf safety rating companies leading to a circle of self affirmation of standards.

The Discovery 2004-2009 got a four star rating, while later Discos got 5 stars. I couldn't find an earlier rating.
BTW the FAQs about the ratings make some very interesting points. For example, a bullbar can cause occupants to suffer greater injuries because it does not crumple to absorb the impact forces. So we are more likely to die if our vehicle has a bullbar.
Also, smaller vehiclican be safer than larger vehicles if the smaller vehicle crumples more than the larger vehicle.
In a crash between a rigid larger vehicle and a smaller vehicle which crumples more, the occupants of the smaller vehicle may be more likely to survive.
Interesting.
Crash Test Results | Crash Test Ratings | Crash Tests | ANCAP

BTW the Jeep Wrangler 3.6 two door from 2012 onwards got a four star rating.
It may be because in a side crash, side airbags greatly reduce head injuries.

It's a bit of ad hoc analysis. I.e. you can always manipulate data to prove/suggest your point.

The question if defined, should be:
If a defender is involved in a Fatal crash with another vehicle, how likely is the driver and passengers of the defender be alive.

This is the question of interest. The result you quotes has a lot of noise as there maybe a lot of low speed small crashes involved a defender as defender drivers usually don't/can't speed.

Cheers

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Originally Posted by Dervish

[bigwhistle]

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I was waiting for someone to chime in with the Renault Espas.

Several things. It was a D1. D2 is far stronger with outer steel shell for doors and bonnet etc and many other changes. D2 was crash tested and did well despite its heavy weight.

The D1 was old and out of a wreckers. Knowing the salted roads over there the chassis was probably weakened by rust on the inside. A single rail does not have to carry all the burden of a decent bull bar is used so in an offset crash a bull bar helps distribute the load over both rails. This D1 didn’t have that advantage.

Air bags disabled it seems.

It was being crashed into a heavy vehicle.

I have seen D2, Deefer , RRC in real world crashes. There is a reason Monash when evaluating real world crash data rate then as having good crash protection for their occupants.

Cheers