My 2.25L series 2a gets EFI and a Supercharger!

[SeriesKid]

Hey y'all,
Just thought I'd put up a post about my 2a (Bruce) and his much delayed advancement in technology! After spending much time thinking about my options and while yes, i would love to throw in a 300tdi and the rest of the gear, i'd like to keep it simple and as "original looking" as possible.


BACKGROUND:
Bruce is a Series 2a ute with series 3 engine + gearbox, fairey overdrive, salisbury diffs, fairey capstan winch, ute + wagon hardtops PLUS soft-top. He is cold in winter, boiling in summer, and noisy all the time (love that overdrive whine!) Nevertheless, I love Bruce - and by the fact he's never left me stranded anywhere (I always keep my tools in the back) I can tell he loves me too.
My mechanical skills have come along way since purchasing him as I do everything on him myself (including a head-gasket in my apartment's car park that I had to keep secret from the building manager!) and if there's something he needs that I haven't done before, I'd better learn fast, as I have no other car to drive!)
I've just come off my uni holidays where I had a bit of time to clean him, tune him up, and courtesy of two cans of spray paint, some masking tape and my girlfriend - improve his aesthetics a little :)

However, his fuel economy and power are still lacking. Running an old Stromberg from an HD Holden and Ducellier dizzy still relying on points, a decision has to be made: Rebuild the two, or bring old Bruce into the 21st century? (....well, kinda)...
If I rebuild the Stromberg and get it re-jetted, I still have the same old carby that WILL get Bruce to his destination, but will chew through a bit of fuel, and is INCREDIBLY restrictive on airflow. (You should see how small the throttle body is on this thing!!!)
ALSO, if I rebuild the Ducellier, of course I would replace the points with an elec. ignition module, but I'd also want to rip out the old springs and weights to change the advance curve...... which would take a lot of work to get right (with all this work, I wouldn't be happy with just however the dizzy came from the factory, I'd want an improvement!)

Now I know many of you are sitting there saying "Hey, the old girl gets you there, and is reliable. What do you have against it?"
Well I haven't got anything against it. I LOVE my old Bruce. The only thing more enjoyable than driving it, is noticing an improvement after I've spent a whole weekend working on it :D

So wanting to keep the old donk where it is, and don't fancy getting into spending alot of money on headwork for small gains here and there (now remember, I'm a student, my idea of alot of money is probably about 1/5th the size of your idea!) I look towards EFI.

REASONING:
:) I'm studying mechanical and mechatronic engineering @ UTS so the whole concept of EFI appeals to me, as I understand it all perfectly (...i think...)
:) EFI gives me complete control over the ignition advance curve.
:) I can program, I know a bit about electronics, thermodynamics, fluid dynamics, manufacturing and drinking... okay the last one doesn't help a lot, but its what us engineering students pride ourselves upon.
:) The more work I can complete myself, the cheaper the overall cost of the project.
:) I have a few mates who screw around with EFI on their cars, so help is not far away.
:) I already have a Microtech LT-8 ECU (usually the majority of the conversion cost, mine for $300 courtesy of a mate) and injectors.

ADDED BENEFIT:
:) With how this particular EFI system works, and with the flow of these injectors, supercharging will be a "relatively" cheap bolt-on once its all up and running. There is ample room in the engine bay for mounting, and there's room for an intercooler AND a small family between the radiator and the grill!
Although I will only be running "low boost" (about 4-5psi) that means about 133% volumetric efficiency inside the cylinders, and this will be throughout the majority of the rev-range! (I hate to think of what the volumetric efficiency is with the current Stromberg!)

CURRENT PROGRESS:
I wasn't going to be starting this project for another 6-8 weeks, but a mate gave me his old Microtech ECU (the exact model I was after, too!) for $300, and some injectors that have more than enough flow for an additional $50.

NEXT STEP:
Bruce is my daily driver and I cannot afford to have him off the road for more than a weekend. This means that I need EVERYTHING ready before Bruce makes the changeover.
I am keeping my eye out for an inlet manifold for the 2.25L before paying a visit to an EFI specialist. I will need to have a fuel-rail custom made to suit the injectors and manifold, the manifold machined to receive the injectors, a nipple added for my ECU's inbuilt MAP sensor, and a small flange to receive the Holden Commodore 60mm throttle body that I will be using ($40 from the wreckers, and includes the Throttle Position Sensor :) )

THEN...
60psi electric fuel pump, high-pressure fuel lines, pressure regulator and return lines (including tank-selector, as I run 2 fuel tanks)...
Elec. ignition module as I will be using the old Ducellier (with both vacuum AND centrifugal advance disabled) in place of a crank-angle sensor...
New coil (I'm not going to all this trouble to leave the old one there!)...

DESIRED FINISHED PRODUCT:
Without the supercharger, I will have an engine bay that looks very similar to how it does now. The Commodore throttle body will sit in place of the Stromberg, and there will be a fuel-rail and injectors sitting on my inlet manifold, but the rest will look much the same. Even the single coil and Ducellier will be in place. Then its just the odd wires here and there escaping into an olive-drab painted wire-conduit, leading to my hidden EFI ECU :D:D:D
............... Then when I get bored and bolt on the supercharger (which will still have an electronic clutch so I can disengage it when desired) I will scuff up the exterior of it and mount it low on the sparsely-populated driver's side of the engine bay...
LOOKS a lot more original than dropping in a 300Tdi, MUCH cheaper, and is alot more fun for me to play around with.

......... Besides, who has a Supercharged 2a on EFI? :D:D:D

[SeriesKid]

Attached is a current photo of Bruce...
Not quite sure if uploading as an attachment will work... here goes!

[banjo]

I'm looking forward to reading more on your conversion sounds interesting..Just remember we love pics so keep them coming..I hope it all works out the way you have it planed...GOOD LUCK..

[Blknight.aus]

outstanding.

[d@rk51d3]

Supercallafreakingawesome. :cool:

[bobslandies]

The 2.25L engine is underworked as it came from Land Rover. The fact that the bottom end will handle the stresses of a diesel engine (which is actually what is was designed as) means that it is easily capable of a fifty percent increase in output.
A much cheaper alternative to what you are proposing, particularly if you have a late Series 3 five-bearing crankshaft engine, is to fit extractors, different profile cam, port and polish the head to increase airflow, increase the compression slightly, use only premium fuel, fit electronic ignition and a suitable carburettor.
This will bring output up to around 120HP - equivalent to a Holden 179/186, still be a Land Rover engine and is about as much as the transmission (gearbox) will handle.
As your vehicle is a LWB an LPG conversion could also be beneficial. Not sure if the rebate for conversions still applies - I believe the rules have changed since the scheme was introduced.

Using a Holden carburettor on a 2.25L often results in "issues" - from flooding to starving, getting the jetting correct is difficult but can be done and particularly "snatching" on take-off if you have a carburettor from an Automatic car. Manual carburettors were hard to come by as automatic transmissions became more popular. Codes M = Manual, C= Automatic. If it is from an HD it may be from a 149 cuin motor that explains the lack of breathing.
Body sizes 1 3/32" (149, 161 cid); 1 5/32" (173, 179 186 cid); 1 7/32" (202 cid). If it is smaller it is from an earlier grey motor.

Unless you are keen to do a lot of research and experimenting there are some easier solutions to give you more power and economy.

Bob

[Blknight.aus]

The 2.25L engine is underworked as it came from Land Rover. The fact that the bottom end will handle the stresses of a diesel engine (which is actually what is was designed as) means that it is easily capable of a fifty percent increase in output.
A much cheaper alternative to what you are proposing, particularly if you have a late Series 3 five-bearing crankshaft engine, is to fit extractors, different profile cam, port and polish the head to increase airflow, increase the compression slightly, use only premium fuel, fit electronic ignition and a suitable carburettor.
This will bring output up to around 120HP - equivalent to a Holden 179/186, still be a Land Rover engine and is about as much as the transmission (gearbox) will handle.
As your vehicle is a LWB an LPG conversion could also be beneficial. Not sure if the rebate for conversions still applies - I believe the rules have changed since the scheme was introduced.

Using a Holden carburettor on a 2.25L often results in "issues" - from flooding to starving, getting the jetting correct is difficult but can be done and particularly "snatching" on take-off if you have a carburettor from an Automatic car. Manual carburettors were hard to come by as automatic transmissions became more popular. Codes M = Manual, C= Automatic. If it is from an HD it may be from a 149 cuin motor that explains the lack of breathing.
Body sizes 1 3/32" (149, 161 cid); 1 5/32" (173, 179 186 cid); 1 7/32" (202 cid). If it is smaller it is from an earlier grey motor.

Unless you are keen to do a lot of research and experimenting there are some easier solutions to give you more power and economy.

Bob

no offense bob.... but.

screw that... do something different thats never been done before take that old lump of iron and give it some new beans.

[Michael2]

There is an EFI Kit somewhere in the UK for the 2.25, but go ahead with your own idea, it's affordable, and a lot more satisfying to do it yourself.

In case you do consider a cam regrind in the future, I had good results with the cam ground to open all valves 5 degrees sooner and close them 5 degrees later. The profile is (almost) identical to the 2.6 6cyl cam profile according to the guy who did it.

The 2.25 can run just about unlimited advance, so you should have plenty of scope for tuning.

[Rangier Rover]

Wont cost as much as working the 2.25. I was going to do a similar conversion to my 88" ser 111. The Toyota supercharger was $250. I have an SU on mine so was going to use it. For the inlet manifold I was going to use a 2.25 diesel job and mount the supercharger on the passenger side of the engine bay. With all the plumbing available from super crap auto etc it would be very easy to do these days.
I dropped the idea for a turbo set up as would have been easier for me to set up. I still have the turbo and 45deg weldable bends here to make it all fit.

I say go for it. Put it on a dyno, tune it properly. In the past 2.25s have been turboed very successfully and have produced close to 200 HP with water injection!
Cant see why the supercharger wont work well. Imagine the mid range torque it will have:twisted:

[JDNSW]

I like your plan - unlike some of the suggestions, the whole setup could be planned and built to just bolt on in a weekend. I suspect you will find a quite substantial increase in power just with the EFI, although I will point out that if you regularly use the extra power, you won't see much improvement in the fuel economy - don't forget that narrow choke carburetter restricts not only the amount of air that gets in, but the amount of fuel!

Your setup should be more efficient, in the sense of thermal efficiency, by getting closer to the optimum mixture and ignition timing, so there should be a modest increase in economy, provided you don't drive or accelerate faster than you do now!

One thing worth checking is whether you have a 7 or 8:1 head - if it is 7:1 then getting it ground is probably the first step in improving power, although not really essential if you are supercharging it.

You may find that by the time you do the first stage, the additional power is as much as the gearbox will stand - and if you add the supercharger you may find yourself looking at expensive and time consuming drive train modifications.

John

[bobslandies]

Hey y'all,

Bruce is my daily driver and I cannot afford to have him off the road for more than a weekend. This means that I need EVERYTHING ready before Bruce makes the changeover.

That is the reason why I suggested another alternative, particularly one that could be done in affordable stages.

Many of us have been down the R&D route - it doesn't get sorted out so easily.
The Series 3 gearbox won't handle the power for long, neither will second-hand overdrives (if you can find a spare one), differential ratio changes are expensive. Once you have more power it make sense to match your cruising speed to maximum torque.
Engines have separate thrust washers locating the crankshaft and you will be likely to have problems with a tired engine unless you rebuild the bottom end also.

And I almost forgot about upgrading the standard four cylinder front brakes to servo boosted 3" wide front brakes from a Series 3 6-cylinder so you have a safety margin there also

Bob

[d@rk51d3]

Or, you could forget about the brakes, and slap on a Toyota badge.:D

[Rangier Rover]

Or, you could forget about the brakes, and slap on a Toyota badge.:D

:Rolling::Rolling:

[RobHay]

Nevertheless, I love Bruce - I LOVE my old Bruce- When I have finished with him my Bruce will be able to go and go and go



Matey ya better start praying ya Missus doe not read this:twisted: She might just not understand

[slug_burner]

The beauty of being young and having an unconstrained view (dream). I am no longer young relative to a uni student (had a meeting with a group of them on Fri, they looked like they were high school kids that did not need to use a razor yet) and have thought about the EFI route myself. I will be very interested to see how that all goes.

Using the dizzy to get your timing may not deliver all the benefits of EFI if there is wear in the shaft. I recall changing an old ('61) side entry dizzy on a mini for a new top entry, no more hunting just smooth delivery of what ever power was there in the first place.

As for the supercharger! That one I can do without but don't let our old fogey conservatism get in the way. Go for it, a great little project.

[SeriesKid]

Yeah I know that the dizzy route to trigger my efi is not the greatest. I've been looking into welding a 32-tooth gear to the back of my crank-pulley and using a crank-angle sensor, but have not worked out exactly how I can mount it. It would be alot more favourable as there'd be no play in timing gears, etc. I'll keep looking into it, as it will take a little while to find a spare inlet manifold and have it machined for injectors (which is my next step in the project) :)
LOL, yeah the supercharger will be interesting!

Thanks all for your comments/support on my project! :)
I'll keep this updated with my progress. I'll also post my dyno-sheets, as I want to get a "before" sheet when I go and have my first chat with the EFI specialist!

The main use for my car is cruising (freeway, as my folks live 400km north) and some VERY light 4wd'ing (I paraglide, and some launch-sites have very... erm.... INTERESTING access roads!)
One of my goals for this car is to have it sit happily on 110 on the freeway. CRAZY ~ i know! :p but at the moment it sits on 100km/h with a fair amount of throttle (my advance curve is rather rooted, and the Stromberg VERY restrictive), but the revs aren't too bad (Fairey overdrive + 31" tyres). Once she's tuned, she revs, AND has torque up where I need it --> 33" tyres will keep my revs exactly where they are now at 100, but I'll be travelling at 106.5km/h. With my happily breathing 2.25, its not a big ask for the extra 3.5km/h :)

Justsome more background info, Bruce already has extractors and upgraded brakes. Also I will be converting to discs and parabolics once this project is done :)

The suggestion of headwork has been put forward, but I am very keen to keep the engine itself standard, apart from converting to unleaded. If something happens to my engine, replacing it with another stock engine is cheap, while having head-work redone is expensive. It is the later 8:1, 5 bearing engine, but higher compression is not a desire anyway as I will be running about 5psi of boost (I'd almost rather 7:1 and run higher boost!). Also porting and polishing the heads would give smaller gains for the $$ than supercharging, as I couldn't maching the heads myself and am going to running EFI anyway. Supercharging will be not far off a bolt-on and pluming job.

Another beauty of supercharging is that by using the right pulley and boost-control, I can keep my boost relatively constant over my whole rev-range (ESPECIALLY down low :) )

Anywho, I'll keep the progress coming. I'll find some more pics of bruce, too.

Also..... Anyone in Sydney have a free 2.25 Petrol inlet-manifold? :D:D:D

[SeriesKid]

Also, two more photos of Bruce :)

[eddie_tdi]

hey lachie! its eddie, i got your facebook link,

if you need a hand with bruce, let me know, im dying here not having a project car to play with :)

[Rangier Rover]

Also..... Anyone in Sydney have a free 2.25 Petrol inlet-manifold? :D:D:D

Have you looked at flipping a 2.25 diesel manifold? Should be possible to drill and tap the injectors. I think it would be a much neater installation and flow better.

[subasurf]

I'm all for this, sounds like a great project.
But seriously, how well do you think your gearbox will handle the stress?

[Rangier Rover]

I'm all for this, sounds like a great project.
But seriously, how well do you think your gearbox will handle the stress?

The series 11a box is the strongest of them. Just don't give it hell in first of third gear and knock the overdrive out in the hills or wile towing. I had a turboed 202 holden in a series 111 109 in the 80's and soon worked this out:)

Second and forth gear are almost bullet proof.:twisted:

[SeriesKid]

hey Subasurf and Rangier,
I know EXACTLY how my gearbox is going to hold up...... NOT WELL! :p
over a year ago I believed I was having trouble with my advance sticking at higher revs. It would cut out when I backed off the throttle, wait until I opened the throttle back to where it was, and BAM! it would cut back in again, with a rather un-delightful backlash through the gearbox. Within a few days my 3rd gear developed a rather ratchet-like noise. I dumped the gearbox oil and remember thinking it would make fantastic metallic-black nailpolish! I also found a gear-tooth, a ball-bearing (just a single ball) and some small shrapnel in the oil-tray. I threw some fresh oil in, and over a year later (and not thrashing the box) it hasn't got any worse!! A few weeks ago I changed the gear oil and it was still quite golden :D

I have a 2a gearbox sitting in my folks' shed waiting for the next time I'm up that way with some spare time. I'm going to throw the 2a in as an interim, while I rebuild the S3 box (it also needs new detent springs, but what series box doesn't!)

BUT, once I have my S3 box happily back in there, I believe it will handle the job well. This project is not about how much power I can milk from the old 2.25, its about efficiency :) (.....yes, I'll keep telling myself that! :Rolling: )
The EFI is to ensure my air:fuel ratios are spot-on and my ignition timing is right where I want it, and the supercharger is to overcome the terrible flow of the inlet manifold and head. I'm only boosting things by 5psi (atmospheric is around 15psi) so this is just pushing my air/fuel mixture into the cylinders, rather than relying solely upon the intake stroke to suck it in through the poor-flowing manifold/head.

I understand your point, thrashing around with that power could chew through a gearbox pretty quickly. Believe me, I have a dune-buggy running a 4.4L P76 V8 through a completely stock 1600 Kombi box that myself and my girlfriend built out of two shagged ones that came with it. The old owners used to drop in a box and do wheelies on the bitumen until first gear gave way :p:p:p But since we rebuilt that box, we've just been taking it easy and being careful where we use the power, and I expect it will serve the V8 well for some time.
(for interest's sake, check it out here YouTube- V8 Dune Buggy first run: donut and un-intentional wheelie in the paddock )

As I said earlier, I'm only really going to be cruising around with Bruce, and any 4WDing is going to be quite light, and ESPECIALLY not at full torque. A standard S3 box will be adequate for Bruce, but I agree, certainly NO towing horse-floats up hills with the overdrive!! :D:D

[Bigbjorn]

hey Subasurf and Rangier,
I know EXACTLY how my gearbox is going to hold up...... NOT WELL! :p
over a year ago I believed I was having trouble with my advance sticking at higher revs. It would cut out when I backed off the throttle, wait until I opened the throttle back to where it was, and BAM! it would cut back in again, with a rather un-delightful backlash through the gearbox. Within a few days my 3rd gear developed a rather ratchet-like noise. I dumped the gearbox oil and remember thinking it would make fantastic metallic-black nailpolish! I also found a gear-tooth, a ball-bearing (just a single ball) and some small shrapnel in the oil-tray. I threw some fresh oil in, and over a year later (and not thrashing the box) it hasn't got any worse!! A few weeks ago I changed the gear oil and it was still quite golden :D

I have a 2a gearbox sitting in my folks' shed waiting for the next time I'm up that way with some spare time. I'm going to throw the 2a in as an interim, while I rebuild the S3 box (it also needs new detent springs, but what series box doesn't!)

BUT, once I have my S3 box happily back in there, I believe it will handle the job well. This project is not about how much power I can milk from the old 2.25, its about efficiency :) (.....yes, I'll keep telling myself that! :Rolling: )
The EFI is to ensure my air:fuel ratios are spot-on and my ignition timing is right where I want it, and the supercharger is to overcome the terrible flow of the inlet manifold and head. I'm only boosting things by 5psi (atmospheric is around 15psi) so this is just pushing my air/fuel mixture into the cylinders, rather than relying solely upon the intake stroke to suck it in through the poor-flowing manifold/head.

I understand your point, thrashing around with that power could chew through a gearbox pretty quickly. Believe me, I have a dune-buggy running a 4.4L P76 V8 through a completely stock 1600 Kombi box that myself and my girlfriend built out of two shagged ones that came with it. The old owners used to drop in a box and do wheelies on the bitumen until first gear gave way :p:p:p But since we rebuilt that box, we've just been taking it easy and being careful where we use the power, and I expect it will serve the V8 well for some time.
(for interest's sake, check it out here YouTube- V8 Dune Buggy first run: donut and un-intentional wheelie in the paddock (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRVLSwNmu5Q) )

As I said earlier, I'm only really going to be cruising around with Bruce, and any 4WDing is going to be quite light, and ESPECIALLY not at full torque. A standard S3 box will be adequate for Bruce, but I agree, certainly NO towing horse-floats up hills with the overdrive!! :D:D

Don't think that just because you are pushing the intake charge in with a blower you will achieve high volumetric efficiency. Restriction is restriction whether under vacuum or under pressure. You will still need to clean out the ports, and the manifold as far as you can reach, port match the manifolds to the head, do the tricky stuff around the valve heads and seats and attempt to unshroud the valves in the combustion chambers as much as you can.

Have a look at the manifold design and think about whether you are going to get even fuel distribution. This can cause major problems with pressurised engines. You may need to fabricate a one into two into two x two manifold system to achieve this.

Supercharging engines not designed that way can be a complex and frustrating business. Two steps forward and one step back, or sometimes the other way around as you work your way through the problems encountered.

[SeriesKid]

Hi Brian,
Thanks for the comment.
The whole purpose of forced induction on an internal-combustion engine is to increase the volumetric efficiency. You are creating a "virtual displacement increase" - More air/fuel in (mixed with correct ignition timing) = more power.

When the inlet valve opens and the piston moves down (creating a larger volume), air needs to fill this space. It is the difference in air-pressure between that of the cylinder (lower pressure) and that in the manifold (higher pressure) that causes air to flow through the head to fill the cylinder. The flow-rate of air entering the cylinder relies upon three MAIN variables:
1: Rate of volume "created" inside the cylinder.
2: The difference in pressure between the cylinder and the manifold.
3: The cross-section and surface that this air has to flow through.

While yes, your suggestions (relating to the third variable) are good and will increase the flow, unless they are taken to extremes they will not bring the volumetric effiency anywhere near 100%. The manifolds and heads would need to flow faster that the piston can "create" the volume. Also, I cannot do this work myself, which equalls more $$ (this is a VERY low budget project)

Forced induction relies upon the second variable. By increasing the pressure in the manifold, there is a greater difference in pressure between the manifold and the cylinder, thus - greater flow-rate. Greater flow-rate over the same period of time = More air/fuel in the cylinder = higher volumetric effieciency.
Yes, restrictions are restrictions, but they only SLOW flow by a proportional ammount, NOT limit it. All I need to do to get more in the cylinder is turn up the boost.

As you increase the boost level you will approach 100% volumetric effiency. As you CONTINUE to raise the boost level it moves into the >100% region.

On the 1-2-4 inlet manifold front, I will be running sequential injection: 1 injector per inlet, just before the inlet, and timed to fire just after the inlet valve begins to open.

The main thing to remember here is that I am already converting to EFI for efficiency and tunability. I am doing this VERY cheaply and doing almost all of the work myself (exeption: the preperation of the inlet manifold for the injectors).

Once this is done, supercharging is the best performance per dollar improvement I can make. I don't even need to retune the ECU, as I'm using Manifold Air Pressure for mapping.
Toyota SC14 supercharger = $250
Plumbing = $50
Custom pully = $80
Home-made bracket = $5
TOTAL = $385 :D:D:D

I can vary the boost anywhere between 5 and 15psi, and with the flick of a switch I can disable the supercharger and have a normal Bruce. And down the track I can take all this off and put it on almost ANY other car, leaving Bruce just as he is now :)

[Rangier Rover]

Hi Brian,
Thanks for the comment.
The whole purpose of forced induction on an internal-combustion engine is to increase the volumetric efficiency. You are creating a "virtual displacement increase" - More air/fuel in (mixed with correct ignition timing) = more power.

When the inlet valve opens and the piston moves down (creating a larger volume), air needs to fill this space. It is the difference in air-pressure between that of the cylinder (lower pressure) and that in the manifold (higher pressure) that causes air to flow through the head to fill the cylinder. The flow-rate of air entering the cylinder relies upon three MAIN variables:
1: Rate of volume "created" inside the cylinder.
2: The difference in pressure between the cylinder and the manifold.
3: The cross-section and surface that this air has to flow through.

While yes, your suggestions (relating to the third variable) are good and will increase the flow, unless they are taken to extremes they will not bring the volumetric effiency anywhere near 100%. The manifolds and heads would need to flow faster that the piston can "create" the volume. Also, I cannot do this work myself, which equalls more $$ (this is a VERY low budget project)

Forced induction relies upon the second variable. By increasing the pressure in the manifold, there is a greater difference in pressure between the manifold and the cylinder, thus - greater flow-rate. Greater flow-rate over the same period of time = More air/fuel in the cylinder = higher volumetric effieciency.
Yes, restrictions are restrictions, but they only SLOW flow by a proportional ammount, NOT limit it. All I need to do to get more in the cylinder is turn up the boost.

As you increase the boost level you will approach 100% volumetric effiency. As you CONTINUE to raise the boost level it moves into the >100% region.

On the 1-2-4 inlet manifold front, I will be running sequential injection: 1 injector per inlet, just before the inlet, and timed to fire just after the inlet valve begins to open.

The main thing to remember here is that I am already converting to EFI for efficiency and tunability. I am doing this VERY cheaply and doing almost all of the work myself (exeption: the preperation of the inlet manifold for the injectors).

Once this is done, supercharging is the best performance per dollar improvement I can make. I don't even need to retune the ECU, as I'm using Manifold Air Pressure for mapping.
Toyota SC14 supercharger = $250
Plumbing = $50
Custom pully = $80
Home-made bracket = $5
TOTAL = $385 :D:D:D

I can vary the boost anywhere between 5 and 15psi, and with the flick of a switch I can disable the supercharger and have a normal Bruce. And down the track I can take all this off and put it on almost ANY other car, leaving Bruce just as he is now :)


Thermal spots and detonation will be your biggest worry. Same reason I'm treading around putting a blower on my Rangie only my choice of blower are real bad for it:(

That 4.4 powered dak dak:D I have one of those as well:twisted: If you make a clamp for either side of the trans axle out of 1/2" plate and some long bolts or threaded bar they will take some:twisted: The VW casing is made of iron filings and cheese:mad: Also peg the cwp if your clever :D Stops all the flexing from the torque. The Vee wee steel is quite good then;)

[Hardchina]

Yes but with a restrictive intake you'll need more pressure to get the same VE as a smooth flowing setup. more pressure means more robbed horse power and much higher intake charge temps. Higher temps will lead to timing issues which will rob power and effiency.

Also - nobody has ever used "blower" and "effiency" in the same sentance before, ever. :D

Why not custom make a tuned length intake manifold with proper sized plenum?

[Rangier Rover]

Yes but with a restrictive intake you'll need more pressure to get the same VE as a smooth flowing setup. more pressure means more robbed horse power and much higher intake charge temps. Higher temps will lead to timing issues which will rob power and effiency.

Also - nobody has ever used "blower" and "effiency" in the same sentance before, ever. :D

Why not custom make a tuned length intake manifold with proper sized plenum? Even if he used 2.25 the diesel manifold it would exceed the flow required although wont create the ram effect of a custom made intake ram tubes and plenum. I think the port velocity caused by the forced induction with the standard 2.25 head would be impressive. He's only planing for low boost so should be fine. It's not a drag car and never will be.

[Blknight.aus]

project)

Forced induction relies upon the second variable. By increasing the pressure in the manifold, there is a greater difference in pressure between the manifold and the cylinder, thus - greater flow-rate. Greater flow-rate over the same period of time = More air/fuel in the cylinder = higher volumetric effieciency.
Yes, restrictions are restrictions, but they only SLOW flow by a proportional ammount, NOT limit it. All I need to do to get more in the cylinder is turn up the boost.

As you increase the boost level you will approach 100% volumetric effiency. As you CONTINUE to raise the boost level it moves into the >100% region.

On the 1-2-4 inlet manifold front, I will be running sequential injection: 1 injector per inlet, just before the inlet, and timed to fire just after the inlet valve begins to open.



theres a minor flaw in your theories as youve laid it out and that involves your fuel ratio.

while admitedly usually only a problem for turbo engines you still need to watch the change in your airflow at different revs and compensate for it in your mapping or you are going to run lean and hot which will definately take out the exhaust valves or run rich and cold which will pooch your bores and rings.

[SeriesKid]

Hi Blknight,
That's what 3D mapping is for :)

[SeriesKid]

I just want to emphasise why I chose this project:

:) It uses technology that I am familiar with as a Mechanical and Mechatronic Engineering student
:) It is VERY low budget and completely reversible
And most importantly...
:) IT'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT!:D:D

I have no interest in port-matching manifolds and doing headwork, as thats's the first thing that most people do. (While yes its a good idea, my funds don't permit me do this AND my project :( )
I want to have some fun playing around with the tuning on the EFI and create different maps for various applications.
I want to have some fun designing the layout in the cavernous engine bay that our series' have.
And at the end of the day, I want to say......"I have an old 1970 Series 2a Landy.... running EFI and a SUPERCHARGER!" :twisted::twisted::twisted:

[bee utey]

I just want to emphasise why I chose this project:

:) It uses technology that I am familiar with as a Mechanical and Mechatronic Engineering student
:) It is VERY low budget and completely reversible
And most importantly...
:) IT'S SOMETHING DIFFERENT!:D:D

I have no interest in port-matching manifolds and doing headwork, as thats's the first thing that most people do. (While yes its a good idea, my funds don't permit me do this AND my project :( )
I want to have some fun playing around with the tuning on the EFI and create different maps for various applications.
I want to have some fun designing the layout in the cavernous engine bay that our series' have.
And at the end of the day, I want to say......"I have an old 1970 Series 2a Landy.... running EFI and a SUPERCHARGER!" :twisted::twisted::twisted:

Love it! I hope you go with full sequential and real time monitoring of the mixture, should let you get the mixtures spot on cylinder by cylinder. Sounds like a great learning project and, hey, you can always put the carby back on if you need a baseline.:)
And when its all perfect you can fit gas injection...

[subasurf]

*considers EFI and supercharging his lawn mower engine* ;)

[bee utey]

*considers EFI and supercharging his lawn mower engine* ;)
And now for the lawnmower...
Built to cart beer to the top of Mt Panorama.

[bee utey]

And this is how a blower should look

[subasurf]

Just a little over engineered...but I like it :D

[Bigbjorn]

Hi Brian,
Thanks for the comment.
The whole purpose of forced induction on an internal-combustion engine is to increase the volumetric efficiency. You are creating a "virtual displacement increase" - More air/fuel in (mixed with correct ignition timing) = more power.

When the inlet valve opens and the piston moves down (creating a larger volume), air needs to fill this space. It is the difference in air-pressure between that of the cylinder (lower pressure) and that in the manifold (higher pressure) that causes air to flow through the head to fill the cylinder. The flow-rate of air entering the cylinder relies upon three MAIN variables:
1: Rate of volume "created" inside the cylinder.
2: The difference in pressure between the cylinder and the manifold.
3: The cross-section and surface that this air has to flow through.

While yes, your suggestions (relating to the third variable) are good and will increase the flow, unless they are taken to extremes they will not bring the volumetric effiency anywhere near 100%. The manifolds and heads would need to flow faster that the piston can "create" the volume. Also, I cannot do this work myself, which equalls more $$ (this is a VERY low budget project)

Forced induction relies upon the second variable. By increasing the pressure in the manifold, there is a greater difference in pressure between the manifold and the cylinder, thus - greater flow-rate. Greater flow-rate over the same period of time = More air/fuel in the cylinder = higher volumetric effieciency.
Yes, restrictions are restrictions, but they only SLOW flow by a proportional ammount, NOT limit it. All I need to do to get more in the cylinder is turn up the boost.

As you increase the boost level you will approach 100% volumetric effiency. As you CONTINUE to raise the boost level it moves into the >100% region.

On the 1-2-4 inlet manifold front, I will be running sequential injection: 1 injector per inlet, just before the inlet, and timed to fire just after the inlet valve begins to open.

The main thing to remember here is that I am already converting to EFI for efficiency and tunability. I am doing this VERY cheaply and doing almost all of the work myself (exeption: the preperation of the inlet manifold for the injectors).

Once this is done, supercharging is the best performance per dollar improvement I can make. I don't even need to retune the ECU, as I'm using Manifold Air Pressure for mapping.
Toyota SC14 supercharger = $250
Plumbing = $50
Custom pully = $80
Home-made bracket = $5
TOTAL = $385 :D:D:D

I can vary the boost anywhere between 5 and 15psi, and with the flick of a switch I can disable the supercharger and have a normal Bruce. And down the track I can take all this off and put it on almost ANY other car, leaving Bruce just as he is now :)

I can assure you I do know what I am talking about. Almost 50 years of playing with high performance engines, NA, supercharged and turbocharged. Don't waste money on a blower if cost is the prime concern it appears to be. Bulid a proper naturally aspirated engine, head, manifolds, carbs, camshaft, exhaust and you will have a better engine than a stock engine onto which you have stuck a blower and not attended to the bits that matter.

A good starting point for a beginner at supercharging is to get and study the book, Supercharged! Design, Testing and installation of Supercharger Systems, Corky Bell, Bentley Publishers, 2001, and Automobile Engineer's Reference Book, Molloy and Lanchester, George Newnes Ltd.

[Newbs-IIA]

I can assure you I do know what I am talking about. Almost 50 years of playing with high performance engines, NA, supercharged and turbocharged...

See there a breakdown in communication here... this is a 2.25P!!!!!!!! :D

Great project mate!! keep up the great work ;) I love this thread so far, so much technical knowledge out there at a levle I can understand :cool:

If it turns out well you should make some more up and sell them as a kit, could get $1000 for a kit easy I rekon

Now all you need is one of those SUPERCHARGER badges off a supercharged V6 Statesman for the back :twisted:

[Hoges]

Hi SeriesKid

Relative to you, I'm an "elderly green house gas emitter" :D

But I am stoked with your enthusiasm... and you spell proper!! not bad for a budding ingineer :wasntme:

I think you will have a lot of fun, learn a lot, explore various concepts relevant to your undergrad course... and make your own mistakes :(;)

AND, as someone remarked on another thread on this forum, remember to dust off your bus pass... just in case :eek::p

I look forward to watching Bruce come of age!

[the big fist]

Sounds like a great project Serieskid. I am also looking at converting my landy to efi but the easier throttlebody injection route. Ironically I am a mechatronic engineer too (graduated almost 10 years ago though).

My concern would be how well that fairey OD is going to handle the power. I have one too and in the back of my head I always worry it's going to give up the ghost. That whine is great, especially at 100kmh! I tend to use mine as a 5th gear rather than through the whole rev range.

Cheers,

Peter

[cal415]

Any updates to this yet? looks like a great project, Im really looking forward to seeing the finished product.

[SeriesKid]

Unfortunately this project has come to the end of the road :(
Whilst I was really looking forward to getting stuck in to this (having already acquired my throttle-body, ECU and injectors) I finally had to rebuild the gearbox.

I've got a couple of teeth missing from 3rd on the layshaft, so I've gotta get a new layshaft in and a rebuild kit. I've taken the overdrive of and the transfer case apart to give it all a good clean, and will be putting in nice new seals and bearings throughout. :)

I was actually looking at selling old Bruce once I had completed the rebuild as its just not comfortable/efficient enough for a lot of the long drives I do (was looking at perhaps a Subaru Forester or Impreza wagon), but myself and my girlfriend just love him way too much. Looking at the two garage spaces at my folks place with Bruce half-disassembled and gearbox components everywhere, you just have to wonder how many cars there are in the world that you can pull to pieces like this and completely rebuild back to "as-new".

So with this in mind, we have a new plan to allow Bruce to stay with us. This plan involves many upgrades to improve his comfort, efficiency and reliability.

* 200di conversion, gradually building towards Tdi. With the series box freshly rebuilt and the somewhat similar power/torque for the 200di/Tdi engine, the box should have no problem holding up (I don't go 4x4ing much, and when I do its pretty gentle, to the box will be treated very gently)
- Whilst I could fully rebuild my 2.25 petrol, its still 1950s technology.
...and yes, I have Salisburys.

* High-Ratio transfer case overdrive - this will be replacing the Fairey Overdrive. Without the straight-cut Fairey gear, the freeway will be without that constant WHINE that we all love and hate. The gearing will be taller but the 200Tdi should overcome that.

* Disc-Brake upgrade - perhaps ZEUS, but realistically any kit that allows us to use Landrover rotors and pads

* Larger Tyres - perhaps just a set for when we're on a long freeway trip. Just gently stepping the ratio up a tad - this can be done with a little trial and error by borrowing sets from some mates. The disc-brakes should have no problem with a small increase in tyre diameter.

* Interior Upgrade
- New dash (still metal and completely reversible back to the old one) to allow for much better electrical wiring
- New seats (perhaps Defender or Disco?)
- Sound proofing, I know its still going to be noisier than a defender, but it will make a big difference on the long drives. Perhaps the Exmoor moulded flooring etc. My girlfriend will be happy not to have to wear the lawn mowing earmuffs!!

* Parabolic Springs

Now I know what some of you will be thinking... "just go out and get a defender for that money!"
But my opinion is this -
* I know my car inside and out, and know its history pretty far back.
* I've pulled a lot of it apart at various times and can diagnose any problems he has very quickly.
* Anything I put on (discs, parabolics, and essentially my rebuilt gearbox) I know the condition of. I will get a lot of mileage before any things need work.
The only real unknown will be the 200dt/Tdi engine to some extent, but at the moment my 2.25 is a bit of an unknown too, showing its age.

[Blknight.aus]

the easy way to do what your after since you dont offroad much is go and get yourself a disco/deefer/rangie axles set and slide those under the series by means of replacing the suspension mounting bits on the disco/deefer/rangie axles with the ones from the series. (assuming you want to keep the leafs.

this gets rid of the requirement to fit a non standard Tcase, gives you the brakes you want and since your faffing with the suspension lets you setup the parabolics in one shot.

the 200tdi derated a little will comfortabley push it around with the 3.54 gears in the diff and wont kill the gearbox if you're carefull with the noisey pedal in the lower gears.

[SeriesKid]

Hi BlackKnight,
Yeah I'd like to keep the leafys. Your idea sounds good, what's the standard ratio in the Salisburys that I have? (all I know is that they're Salisburys, I would imagine they're standard - whatever that was...)
Also, would I be able to keep my prop-shafts or would that require customs?

The main reason I was thinking the above was that it can all be done in small and (relatively) cheap installments while keeping the car on the road.

Cheers, Lachy

[Timj]

Hi SeriesKid,

The standard diff on a 2A should be 4.7, Defender and other later ones are 3.54 I believe. Problem with this change is that your low range changes as well so if you need a "low" low for 4wding then you lose it.

You probably only have a Salisbury in the back and the front would be a standard Rover. Have a look at the shapes and length of the nose to be certain. This should be the same as a Defender I think but that would be worth looking into more or asking someone who knows for sure :). The Salisbury is longer than a Rover diff so if you change from one to the other there are changes in propshaft required.

TimJ.

[Blknight.aus]

what he said.

[SeriesKid]

Hmm, I might keep with the overdriven t-case, or even swap the Fairey for a Roverdrive. Anyone here got a Roverdrive? I think their internal gears are helical rather than straight-cut like the Fairey.
This would keep my low-range, whilst not often required, does get used a little.
Plus, I want anything I do to be "easily" reversible.

[Blknight.aus]

it doesnt get much easier than cutting the mounts off of a dead series axle and welding them to the disco/deefer/rangie ones. all of about 14/17 bolts and 2 pipe fittings to swap them back to the original stuff.

you might consider the 4.11 diff ratio. which the series box will happily push and the 200tdi is equally happy with.

[Timj]

Hi Serieskid,

Just wondering as well what you are going to do with the parts you have for fuel injecting (throttle body, injectors,ECU). If you want to sell them could you PM me a price as I might be interested.

TimJ.

[SeriesKid]

Hi Tim, the ecu and injectors went back to my mate who I got them from, as I hadn't paid him yet, I think he was going to eBay them. I'll give him a call to see if he still has them. As for the throttle body, I was having issues finding a simple EFI throttle body to use. All the little jap ones had crap coming out everywhere, ended up just grabbing an AU falcon one from the wreckers just as a starting point, but its way to big to use (1/4 throttle would be equal wide-open-throttle for the Landy engine). Best bet for throttle body might just be to use your Landy carby (with the guts ripped out), and fit a Throttle-Position sensor to it... It would look nice and stock :)

[Racer-X]

What happened with this project?