P38 River crossing preparation?

[LavisLane]

After watching PaulP38's video on youtube, i'm a little nervous about potential river crossings this weekend :eek:

Just read the owners manual and it says something like "don't go deeper than the door sills - the world as you know it will end!" :eek::o:eek:

I haven't had a chance to do a proper river crossing in her yet so, while i'm pretty keen, i'm a little cautious with half of silicon valley sitting under the drivers seat.

Just had a service, heads done and a thorough check with Graeme Cooper including the door seals so all good there.

It doesn't have a snorkel. Yet. (hurry up HRA! ;)

Anything else i should check?
Anything else i should prepare eg. spaying silicon, wearing gum boots etc?

Any advice welcomed - thanks!

David

[Grumbles]

I would strictly adhere tothe maximum wading depth as stated in the owners manual. And don't forget too that even if you enter water of the correct depth then the 'wash' generated ahead of your car will more than likely rebound off the opposite bank onto and around your car at twice [or more] its original depth before you exit the water.

That will most likely be a car and wallet destroying experience.

How much of a gambler are you?

Good luck!

[Junosi]

Also if there's any doubt whatsoever then walk it first and have a good look/feel - wet people are easily cured, cars less so.

[PaulP38a]

Spray lots of WD-40 in the engine bay around the electrics.

Use a wading bra or tarp accross the front.

Tape up the drain holes in the bottom of the doors.

Check that the plastic inner front LH wheel guard is intact and unlikely to let water around it. Seal-up as necessary.

Get someone with a really bright light inside the car, get underneath and look for light spots. Sikaflex and/or tape the holes... rear of the front wheels arches where the grommets are for the indicators and door wiring looms.

Lubricate the door seals... again.

As Grumbles said, walk the path first... where each wheel will go... beware pot holes and logs

Snatch-em strap at the ready, already connected to front recovery point(s) in event that you stop in the water.

If it stalls in the water... DO NOT try to start it. Wheels straight, pull the key, put in neutral and wait for recovery.

After each water crossing, pop open the air cleaner box and check for water.

Carry a couple of spare air filters in case they get soggy.

Haven't actually tried this one but it might work... set EAS to high/wading mode and pull the EAS relay under the passenger seat so it does not drop to access mode if "stuff happens".

Chances are you will be fine. Before I drowned mine, it had already crossed that river 3 times with no problems.

I'll PM you my mobile number... there might be other "lessons learned" I'll remember tomorrow after I get some sleep.

Cheers, Paul.

[LavisLane]

Thanks all - the tree of knowledge provides again :cool:

A bit of preparation to do but will enjoy ride. Stay tuned for pics.

[Scouse]

Anything else i should prepare A video camera so we can laugh at analyse your water crossings might be an idea :).

[LavisLane]

A video camera so we can laugh at analyse your water crossings might be an idea :).

Stay tuned... :D

[willem]

A video camera so we can laugh at analyse your water crossings might be an idea :).

You're a ratbag, Scouse! :o:D:D

Willem

[adm333]

I had to remove my BeCM from under the driver's seat the other night and I counted around 24 different wiring connections to it.

In other words, every system in the entire car terminates with an exposed connection under the driver's seat.

If you have a mate called Moses, I'd be inviting him along on your trip !

:p

[Hoges]

Unless your name is "Collins" then the cheapest way is to make sure you have the transponder or toll money for the bridge :eek::wasntme::twisted:

[VladTepes]

P38 River crossing preparation?

Pay the ferry man.

(but not til you get to the other side, apparently).

[andrew e]

In between building snorkels, I have designed a kit that will shut off your battery remotely (via an aircraft style rocker switch on the dash) The solonoid will be a 300a continuous and 1500amps peak, so it is very overkill.

Basically if you get stuck/stall/drown your engine mid river, you flick this panic switch, and your becm and all electrical gear is isolated BEFORE it gets wet. When Paul drowned his p38, the suspension lowered to the bumpstops when the becm got wet:eek:

I dont want to even think about moving the becm, and the 4 others under the passengers seat, and the seat ecu under the drivers, and the srs ecu from the console, and the abs ecu on the footwell and the..... at least if it gets wet with no power it should be fine when dried out.

All i need to do is bolt it up to pauls car to try it out.

Andy

[PaulP38a]

All i need to do is bolt it up to pauls car to try it out.

by "try it out" you mean testing the activation of the solenoid on dry land don't you? :o:o

[Scouse]

Maybe we should all tow around a 250CFM compressor so we can pressurise the cabin to stop water entry.


Hey, that way we might even get the Rangies to float across the river too !!

[mike 90 RR]

... I'll remember tomorrow after I get some sleep.


Paul ... If there's one thread that you just, outright own ... It's this one .... :eek:

Can you point out the location & how & where the motor gets it's air from,
.... and then the bit about "Max wading depth" might make more sense to LavisLane

Mike
:)

[PaulP38a]

Paul ... If there's one thread that you just, outright own ... It's this one .... :eek:
I'm flattered... that's a very dubious honour:p

Can you point out the location & how & where the motor gets it's air from,
.... and then bit about "Max wading depth" might make more sense to LavisLane
Fair enuff... David probably already knows but I'm more than happy to remind him and anyone else that cares.
Air is taken from inside front top LH guard. Look in the engine bay at the air box and then follow it directly out the LH side of the car (facing forward). There is an elliptical hole there that sucks in air, that's all. The plastic inner wheel arch should give some splash protection from the action of the wheels, however if the inner guard is cut, modified or loose, it may act as a scoop for water instead of deflecting it IMHO :o

The air box has a fairly large "dirty air" side under the filter for collecting crap and water splash. After each crossing, pop the top of the air box, remove the filter and check for water. It may also have a drain hole?

My car had a hole cut in the RHS of the air box from the PO playing around with cold-air intake through the bull bar. I thought it might be possible to temporarliy re-route this tubing to the back of the engine bay (i.e. away from water wash when wading) but gave up on the idea when we started the snorkel project.

Max wading depth = 0.5m according to the Owner's Handbook... and: "Severe electrical damage may occur if the vehicle remains stationary for any length of time when the water level is above the door sills."

Who reads instructions anyway?... well, until afterwards ;)

"Do, or do not. There is no try". Yoda. :D

All the best David. We want pics and video of your triumph over the river.

Cheers, Paul.

[Grumbles]

Max wading depth = 0.5m according to the Owner's Handbook... and: "Severe electrical damage may occur if the vehicle remains stationary for any length of time when the water level is above the door sills..

And that's the real scary part when taking a Rangie any where near water.

[big guy]

Misconception about snorkels is that they are not for watercrossing but to get clean cool air from the outside at a higher level.
they are not strictly speaking water proof and will not help your car be a submarine suddenly.

Electrics and water do not form a good marriage.

I suggest you get a Defender, preferably a 300tdi or dare I say it an Isuzu.
They can will and have gone very deep.
At the other side, open the door and let the water which will get in just run out.

Older discos and RRC's which are well prepared will do similar.
A P 38 was more a car that is very capable off road but water is its arch enemy.
Good luck.;););)

[mike 90 RR]

Older discos and RRC's which are well prepared will do similar.
A P 38 was more a car that is very capable off road but water is its arch enemy.
Good luck.;););)
^^^^I agree^^^^
But the RRC & Disco have similar problems ... As we too have a couple of ECU + components under the seat :( ... But I think the P38's real downfall is the air suspension, in which if the sensor's chuck a fit and fail, The suspension Just falls onto the bump stops and seals the fate of drowning the car ..... Hence, Pauls suggestion of "set the ride high & pull the relay"

My added suggestion is, Give all the electrics under the engine bay, especially the spark plug leads, a coating of "Spray Grease" .... and try LOTS of "safe depths" of water (lower than the sill) to see how it copes in the first place

But my warning is, for as long as that motor is getting it's air from inside the wheel arch ... I would'nt advise doing anything "brave"

Mike
:)

[Hoges]

^^^^I agree^^^^

But my warning is, for as long as that motor is getting it's air from inside the wheel arch ... I would'nt advise doing anything "brave"

Mike
:) (sic)


Sooo true! ..."brave" indeed... as a wise man once said "fools rush in...and angels tread all over them" :eek: :wasntme:

[PaulP38a]

Interesting read about snorkles in current issue of Australian 4WD Action mag. Not so much about the submariner aspects, but more about the small fuel efficiency gains on Toyo 60 and 80 series due to cooler air.

I'm hanging out to fit the HRA snorkel to mine to see if I can get my highway economy below 13L/100 on average with normal unleaded petrol.

One day, I might even tackle Dry Creek (what a freakin misnomer!) again... with the panic button installed of course, and all the holes in the rear plugged...

Here's another tip I've discovered after playing around a lot with the front air plenum recently:
If you get wash over your bonnet, it may reach the air intake plenum behind the firewall (obvious yeah I know). What I didn't realise up until recently is how easily water can reach the pollen filters and drop down to the blower motors and on to the floor... what's on the floor? those delicate ECU's and the BeCM.
At a minumim, put the HVAC on recirc to close the flaps and slow down water ingress, or fashion another water barrier at the plenum air intake behind the back of the bonnet. I'll "thunk" on this some more and maybe come up with something one day.

Cheers, Paul.

[LavisLane]

A video camera so we can laugh at analyse your water crossings might be an idea :).

Video attached with my mate hamming it up :p

Not quite as wet as we hoped. This is as good as it got though and still great fun :cool:

We went to Turon gates and followed the track to Sofala - awesome little drive. Arrived in Sofala just before a 4WD drive cclub arrived, The street was filled with about 12 Landcruisers and my P38 with a lot of vague and guarded interest from the LC drivers.

Felt a little like a scene from Life of Brian...
"You're all individuals!" - "I'm not.." ;)

Thanks for all the advice, stay tuned for the next attempt. If there's enough water that is...

Dave

[Junosi]

Felt a little like a scene from Life of Brian...

Maybe the LC guys thought you were the messiah ?!

Glad you made it across - looked pretty harrowing in there :p

[Hoges]

Great to see a P38 in its natural environment!:clap2:

[81stubee]

Great to see a P38 in its natural environment!:clap2:

What? You mean water?

IMHO the P38 in that scenario looks a lot more stylish than those yota's.

Stu

[DT-P38]

Maybe the LC guys thought you were the messiah ?!

He's not the messiah, he's just a very naughty boy! :D:p:)

[DT-P38]

I have a very clear and distinct memory of the rather large P38 poster hanging in my local dealers spares office...

It shows a P38 with the range rover bonnet lettering just visible above the water it is plowing through!?!

Wouldn't that actually be false advertising in its purest form?!?

Or, is it just considered drumming up a bit of business from silly buggers with thin brains and fat wallets?

:wasntme:

[PaulP38a]

IMHO the P38 in that scenario looks a lot more stylish than those yota's.

Second that! Toyos may be very capable, reliable and a popular choice but they don't hold a candle to Rangies in terms of "pose value" whatever the setting.

I know it is a tad juvenile, but I just love going out 4WD'ing with Toyo's, Nissans and Jeeps... doing everything they do, but in far more comfort and "style".

It's the 4wd equivalent of that cliche that Clarkson uses "I drive a Jaaagg" :D

My favourite Rangie advert is that one with the P38A parked outside an English manor with the the subtitle "The Rich" and the next photo of it in the mud with the subtitle "The Filthy Rich" :D

Cheers, Paul.

[adm333]

I also liked the Australian version of that from quite a few years ago. It was heavily displayed in the airports etc. Had a picture split in half - the left side had a pristine P38 RR parked outside a mansion in Toorak with the title "Toorak" and on the right it was up to its door sills in mud with the title "Tractor"

[Razza's Rangie]

Hi Guys
I am not sure if you guys ever saw it but there was a sales brochure out for the p38 where they had photo shopped the rangie ploughing through mud as if it was up to door handles.....hmmm then in the Discovery brochure i saw the same background, this time with one of the CT Discovery's ploughing through...

I am with the rest of you, I love pulling up on a track and everyone stops and looks, "wow never thought i would see one of those out here".

I think that the most interest i got was when i said i was going to take my Rangie to cape york.... some laughed, some chuckled.....and me? i drove up there in "business class", all that was missing was the stewardesses walking up and down the isle serving food and drinks!

Raz

[LavisLane]

.and me? i drove up there in "business class"

Raz

Love this :cool:

[Keithy P38]

I'll second that!!

Its a thing that comes with owning a very much "pretty" 4 wheel drive these days! And instead of having your cake and eating it, why not have it delivered via helicopter!

Cheers
Keithy

[Razza's Rangie]

Hehehe yeah the helicopter Idea was a thought!!

There is actually a company in Cairns that will take you out in a range rover and cook you a 3 course meal where ever you want, I.e. on the beach, in the rain forest... I was going to get him to follow us up there!!

"Anyone for Caviar?"

[DT-P38]

Caviar and cake by helicopter? What the? How 'bout beer by eskie? :cool:

The way you blokes talk, they must have been way off the mark when they started calling Rangie's "Toorak Tractors"... perhaps they should have been called "Bris-Vegas Buses"! :angel::angel:

He-he-he! :D:p:D:p

[dbs]

I just read this thread and watched the vid... now I'm starting to really get second thoughts about buying a p38a... I've driven a vw bettle through deeper puddles than that...

what do you do when it rains a bit heavy and there is water on the road?

hmmm... might need to double thing my plans... pity cause I've always liked the look of them.

;)

[PaulP38a]

I've driven a vw bettle through deeper puddles than that...

You've driven a VW Beetle through water deeper than this?
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/1518-1/081112-Drowned-P38A.jpg
Methinks you're having a lend here... the Beetle would have floated briefly and sunk well before this 0.7-0.9m depth ;)

Notice the wheel arches? Here is the same car before going in to that river with 31" tyres on it, checking for water leaks from the first crossing. It did another 2 crossings before drowning.
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/1458-1/SL370197.JPG
Shame I didn't check the air box while I was looking for leaks :o

I still regularly drive my "new" P38 through puddles and shallow water crossings like this one
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/4001-2/186.jpg

which looked like this when a D2 went through
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/4049-2/239.JPG

but mine looked like this coming out
http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/4022-2/193.jpg

That's why my Rangie is not afraid of "shallow" water, even without a snorkel (yet) ;)

Rather than double-think your plans for getting a P38, just double-plan your preparation when tackling water crossings.

Cheers, Paul.

[Keithy P38]

Paul,

Your list of goodies is starting to drain my wallet :-) I'm seriously considering the Hardrange kit with the arnotts bags too! That way i'll have OEM spares in great condition too!

Deepest water i've hit so far has been about 700mm, no worries as long as you stay into it and spray the bugger with CRC first!

Keithy

[dbs]

:lol:

that restores my faith... drove beatle through about .5,... 1st gear hit the water and don't stop. More than that and it would need a bit more preperation and some accessories.

by the way... the vid I was refering to was the one in post #22

:D

[Razza's Rangie]

Hello All

Yeah water crossings are a bit tricky, but like Paul say plenty of prep and no probs.....a couple of things to take note of though

1-when you remove your standard plastic bumper bar and fit a HRA Roo Bar, I realised that it makes it easier for water to get to under the wheel arch, the standard bar acts like a bull dozer and pushes a lot of water away. NOTE - all this took to overcome this was a different line through the water and understanding.

2- With a good prep and sense you can wade above the door sills, but i wouldnt recommend above the door handles!!!!!

Raz

[redandy3575]

I'd gone one better by saying to keep a very moderately slow speed to allow water to wash away. As a rule of thumb, you really shouldn't drive through water above the bonnet line anyway with or without a snorkel no matter what your driving, or you may find your vehicle starting to float, and that's not a good thing.

[p38arover]

As a rule of thumb, you really shouldn't drive through water above the bonnet line anyway with or without a snorkel no matter what your driving,

If the water is above the bonnet line, wouldn't it flood in via the cabin air intake?

[redandy3575]

If the water is above the bonnet line, wouldn't it flood in via the cabin air intake?

Yes it would if you have the air intake on 'Fresh' instead of 'recirculate'. I'm just saying that in the 4WD community there seem to be a few cowboys that think that they can defy the odds and drive through endless water just because they have a snorkel.

[p38arover]

Yes it would if you have the air intake on 'Fresh' instead of 'recirculate'.

I don't think recirculate would stop water ingress on a Land Rover! :D

[redandy3575]

I don't think recirculate would stop water ingress on a Land Rover! :D

minimizing it is about as far as you get.

BTW Paul, when you drowned yours, did you have the tarp over the front? And how deep was the water?

[Scouse]

Just go back one page to see :(.

[PaulP38a]

minimizing it is about as far as you get.

BTW Paul, when you drowned yours, did you have the tarp over the front? And how deep was the water?

Yep, see the pics in post 36 (previous page like Scouse says). Water was about 0.7-0.9m deep, top of the wheel arches with 31" tyres and EAS set to high. Standard front bar with wading bra. The problem was loss of momentum/ bow wave. I recall a small amount of floating, but don't remember if this was before or after the engine died.

[redandy3575]

Yep, see the pics in post 36 (previous page like Scouse says). Water was about 0.7-0.9m deep, top of the wheel arches with 31" tyres and EAS set to high. Standard front bar with wading bra. The problem was loss of momentum/ bow wave. I recall a small amount of floating, but don't remember if this was before or after the engine died.

With the loss of momentum, did you just slip or got half bogged? The water still looks like it was below the air box intake.

[PaulP38a]

Felt like an underwater pot hole that dipped the front and lost momentum.