Winch cable

[101 Ron]

As some of you fellow 101 owners know I broke my winch cable a while ago and there are no replacements advailable with the correct swaged fitting needed so the cable can be threaded though front or rear of the vehicle quickly.
If you need a cable for a 101 let me know now as I am getting one made with the correct swage end on it in stainless steel.
It is just as easy to make more at the same time.
It could be a problem to do at a later date.
Should cost about $350 dollars plus freight and may be GST.
65 mtrs special 9mm wire rope with stainless Ronstand eye of similar spec to original .

[Mick_Marsh]

I'd be interested in one or two if it gets the price down.
What's the time frame?

regards
Mick

[101 Ron]

The time frame is now.
The price will not come down as it is not too bad now.
The problem is getting the swage done with the correct gear by some one who is willing to do it.
The swage is a non standard thing and must take full cable working load.
Most cable people do not want to know about it.
I turns out the cable is abit special too.
I have been for many months been trying to find a solution, as has been Garrycol.
I just need to know numbers to be made.
My cable will be swaged in the next few days.
The only reason someone is doing this for me is that they owe me big time for work I have done to a forklift.

[101 Ron]

the supplied swage fitting will be some thing like this.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/951.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/952.jpg
Compared to the original.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/953.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/954.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/955.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/03/956.jpg
most people do not want to risk the expensive swage dies on a non standard cable.

[101 Ron]

The original cable was drilled out of the standard swage end and it is interesting to note the steel had moulded itself around the cable and kind of flowed into the cable and this effect is what gives it the grip on the cable in a small spot.
The small end swaged eye it needed so the cable can be threaded front to rear on the 101 though the pulleys.
Even with the correct standard swaged eye the one of the double pulleys has to be removed with a 15/16 spanner to get the cable though .
with the correct cable the job takes about 5 mins compared to hours without the correct cable.
the cable itself must be exactly a 9mm IWRC because of the capstan design of the winch and when the winch is at capacity the cable is very close to its safe working load.

[101 Ron]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/fcs-military-variations/92034-101-now-called-102-a.html

[Mick_Marsh]

I take it you are getting lots of PM's. It's like getting one side of a telephone conversation.

I'll have two please. Let me know when and how to make payment. (I'm fresh out of brown paper bags and used non-sequential notes.)

regards
Mick

[101 Ron]

I have not been gettting PMs
1x 101 Ron
2x Mick Marsh
I will get my hands on them and send them and hopefully I will see the money in the brown paper bag soon afterwards.

[101 Ron]

The latest information I have on the cables is the fellow making them is going to buy a 500 mtrs roll of 9mm wire as the cost of the wire then drops to something like a $1.50 per mtr.
As the three cables is going to use 200 mtrs of wire and to have this cut from a 500 mtr roll is going to cost the same as buying the whole roll.
Therefore it is possible now to do more 101 winch cables and lower costs greatly if more than three are made.
In fact I think the bloke doing the job is going to make a extra two in the hope that some one buys them.
As i said before ........now is the time for a 101 winch cable.
Ron

[PeterP]

Ron,

Being having internet trouble, it looks OK now.

My winch cable looks alright but I think one of these would be advantageous in the future. Count me in for one.

Will forward brown paper bag as appropriate. The plates should be ready next week, perhaps we could work something with that. Let me know the details for payment.

Cheers,
Peter

[101 Ron]

Cables
1x Ron
2x Mick
1x Peter

[101RRS]

Ron - Put me down for one - thanks

[101 Ron]

1x Ron
2x mick
1xPeter
1x Garry

[101 Ron]

The latest information I have is I should see the cables next monday.
they are currently being tested after being swaged.

[101RRS]

Hi Ron,

Are they doing destructive testing on one cable or doing computer modelling testing when they test up to a certain level (non destructive) and record various measurements and then the computer model calculates the breaking point?

Garry

[101 Ron]

I dont know.
I will ask.
My best guess would be to the SWL of the cable strain testing.

[Mick_Marsh]

Gidday Ron,
What is the latest on the winch cable?

regards
Mick

[101 Ron]

I have been ringing the bloke organising the cables as he said they would be finished last week and I got fogged of a bit.
I should see them next week.
The latest is 10 of them are being made due to the lower cost of buying a large reel of cable even though I only need 6 cables.
The specs of the cable is is I beleive is causing a problem.
the winch is rated to 6000lbs
The 9mm cable I am now told is not advailable even though different suppliers are suppose to stock it.
When carefully measured the standard cable really measures 8.8mm and the the nearest thing advailible is cable used for a Tirfor hand winch.
The stainless swag end fitting has been changed in specs to a different type as the stainless riggers type is not up to the job.
It is now a matter of waiting and seeing what turns up.
I want to try a cable on my 101s winch before giving it the thumbs up as it would cost a bit in freight to send them back if they are incorrect.
The other worry is the the safe working load of the cable and the the capacity of the winch is very close.
When i get them i will post and take pics.
The only reason is some one is making these cables for me is they owe me money for repairs on a forklift and I will not release it until I see some sort of payment...ie the cables.
It will happen......how good the the end product will be now , who knows.
Ron

[Mick_Marsh]

Thanks for the update Ron
regards
Mick

[101 Ron]

The games we pay.
I ring the bloke for the cables and he sets a date to drop them off.
It never happens , so i ring again etc
just wait and see.

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1041.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/05/245.jpg
There are more pics to come.
I currently have one new cable with another four to come very shortly.
the cable I have looks the goods.
Stainless ronstand eye on the end and tested to 6000lbs.
The price is 350 dollars and I am not making a cent out of it and the bloke is not moving on price as the spec of the cable was a real pain and they ended up getting the cable from a 1000 mtr roll and than takes a bit of man handling/ getting 65 mtr lenghts.( special swage die was made to do the job)
It was done at Illawarra wire ropes.
Seven cables are spoken for and Ten will be made.
We need to start working out freight soon and I am going to need some money up front too as I am very short currently and the reason why I will have trouble posting more pics is because my internet has not been paid this month if you get the drift...........and the missus driving my defender into a under ground car park and doing 2ks worth of damage etc
Ron

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1042.jpg
Old and new side by side

[101RRS]

Thanks Ron - I am away in the corner country from Thursday for about 2 weeks so I will not be able to fix you up until I get back - or you can email me your bank details and I will do an electronic transfer in the next day or so.

Don't worry about freight as I will make a day trip down to pick up mine.

Cheers

Garry

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/05/244.jpg

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/05/243.jpg

[101 Ron]

My current bodge set up on my broken cable, that stops me from transfering the cable from front to rear quickly......:mad::mad::mad::o
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/05/242.jpg

[Tank]

Ron, was wondering if they (Illawarra wire ropes) stamped the SWL on the swage, did they give you a Guaranteed Breaking Strain (GBS) number, BTW Bulldog clamps should never be used on wire rope that is used for winching or lifting, they were designed for Guy ropes only, Regards Frank.

[101RRS]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1042.jpg
Old and new side by side

Is that new swage, being a lot longer than the original, going to be able to get around the first pulley near the left hand exhaust manifold?

[101 Ron]

I dont know about getting the swage around the pulley and you are right in pointing it out Garry .
I figure you should be able to pull the cable though first pulley with excess slack and then feed it into the second pulley.from the other direction..
This I will have to try when I get my cable and fit it as the cable I now have has got your name on it..
The cable and swage is a one off run and the capacity of the wire rope and winch are almost the same and no one wants to put their name to it SWL wise and therefore no SWL stamped on the swage etc.
They did test it to 6000 lbs as that is what I asked for as a minimum requirement.
Getting this far gas been a up hill battle as no one wanted to do it.
The winch is of a unusual capstan design and made only for a small amount of 101 miltiary vehicles and the company which made the original winch rope is no longer around.
Close inspection of the original rope show it is not a 9mm rope . but is in fact 8.8 mm and to make a replacement is to use the nearest advailable replacement.

[101 Ron]

People reading this need to understand the winch on a 101 are one off in design and doesnt have the cable drum doing the pulling on the cable and relies on a two turn small diameter capstan to do the work and all of this is mounted on the side of the chassis rail.
( the capstan is machined with grooves to take one size of cable only for it to work)
The 101 is a light weight compact vehicle and the winch rope feed though to the front of the vehicle is tight in one place.
Not all 101s were fitted with winches and most likely only about 1000 winches were made in total.
Now in having said that and in having extensively used the winch on my 101 I can say it works brillantly.
It is self laying so bird caging is a thing of the past and can operate with winch in at very high speed if required.
It has a over load clutch and can if needed can have the cable slip on the capstan when the winch is in drive and then comence winching by pulling on the end of the cable.
The winch was made by a company who made stuff for the logging industry in europe.
The only draw backs are no free spool out by hand of the cable, so it must be done under power and no in built winch brake, so if the vehicles clutch is depressed underload the cable will unspool very quickly with the load.
the winch load must be chocked while doing a speed or direction gear change on the vehicles gearbox.
To hold a load with the winch the motor igition must be turned off whisle the winch is in gear.
All of the above is very different from a Normal drum type winch hanging on the front of a 4by.

[PeterP]

Ron,

Can you give me the approximate size of the wound cable and weight so I can get a shipping quote and some $$ to you. Also PM bank details.
Cheers,
Peter

[101 Ron]

Ron,

Can you give me the approximate size of the wound cable and weight so I can get a shipping quote and some $$ to you. Also PM bank details.
Cheers,
Peter

Hi Peter.
Weight of the cable without packaging is 17 kg
I will send PM soon.
Posting may be the way to go ? as it will fit in a cardboard box and the diameter is less than 60 cm and is only 8 cm wide.

[101 Ron]

Send me the brown paper bags of money.
Pm me when the money is in my account to help me figure out who has paid and who has not.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/05/162.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1043.jpg
I have fitted a cable to my 101 and the diameter of the cable is perfect as is the flex of it for the capstan.
I normally leave my cable and hook at the rear as it is nice to know you can back out of trouble quickly and all is very good.
The front is a bit harder.
As garry pointed out the chassis pulley near the exhaust manifold. is a pain at the best of times and this new cable makes this much harder due to the extra lenght of the stainless swage.
It can still be done , just much harder.
Feeding the swage is slightly easier though the removable double pulleys as the swage is slightly narrower and longer.
If it a real problem you could saw off with a hack saw the extra leght of the swage ,but at the risk of weakening it.
The standard cable lenght is 65 meters.
My 2 cables I had made at 75 meters in the slight chance the extra lenght would fit on the cable drum and it does so I am very happy about that
Ron.
The other cables yet to be made I will try amd get them made to the extra lenght.
Ron

[101 Ron]

Fitting the new cable was interesting.
First I did a mud map of the threading of the cable though the winch or other wise it is a real pain to figure this out from scratch.
I wound the old cable off until I found the grub screw holding the old cable on the storage drum..( it is a imperial allen key).
Then you have to wind the remaining cable off by turning the PTO uni joints by hand and gearbox in neutral.
I used a bit of insulation tape on the end of the new cable to stop it unravaling and only two turns as it will be too thick to go though the winch.
my job was made harder with a jerry can and a non standard tool box in the way.
using a torch and screw drivers whisle turn the winch uni joints by hand you
feed the cable though in the correct sequence and on the storage drum .
All fun stuff and allow a couple of beers as you will need it.
Tighten the grub screw with the new cable though the hole and triple check your home work.....if you dont a expensive bang may occur.
Fire up your 101 and watch your 101 swallow 65 mtrs of cable and It is a good idea to paint the cable red after a few mtrs to give warning when using the cable in anger that you are at maximum safe lenght.( the cable is like a wick and soaks up the paint)
It is a very good time to treat your new cable with a protective anti corrosion coating.


Ron

PS
I wont be watching this thread this weekend as I intend to give my new cable a work out on the family property.:D:D
and turn down the overload clutch so I am not up for a new cable again.

[101 Ron]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1044.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1038.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1039.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1040.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1036.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/1037.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1987.jpg

[DODGE]

Gday fellow 101ers

Havent been on here for a while. just wanted to say thanks to ron for all the hard work he has done chasing around for these cables.as ive read it was one drama after another and calling in a few favours of his. being in WA it would have been impossible to do as we only have very few cable suppliers and even less would have wanted to know about it.

Cheers gaz

[PeterP]

Received the cable today,thanks for your efforts with the cable Ron.

I have the winch apart at the moment for a clean up and have a few questions for the knowing or anyone else.
1.
It is a very good time to treat your new cable with a protective anti corrosion coating. What is a good protective coating?
2. The only winch manual I have is an 8 page PDF with 1.5 pages of instructions and the rest part break down.(101winch.pdf) Does anyone have any other documentation?
3. The first page states -'the military use Hypo EP90 for the primary chain drive and the Sadie gearbox'. I found both oil plugs but what is the Sadie gearbox?? (The manual shows the casings and a sprocket thingo with no reference number.)
3. Any suggestions for the clutch load testing. I was thinking of setting it at the point it will to pull the 101 across grass or gravel with the brakes on.

All fun stuff and allow a couple of beers as you will need it. Think I will allocate a few 6 packs!

[101 Ron]

Hi peter.
The army uses a special liquid tar like stuff on its cables and similar stuff is advailible though lubrication suppliers.
You could throw the new cable into a old 205 litre drum with the top cut out and some sump oil in i and let it soak for a few days.
The new cable is like a candle wick.
I had great trouble painting the red maximum lenght warning marks on mine as the paint just kept dissappearing and going inside the cable, and it is best to do this before lubricating the cable or other wise the paint will not stick.
I used motor bike chain lube on my cable as it was already fitted when I decided to lube it.
It took about three cans to spray it.
The winch overload clutch is very touchy in its adjustment and you only need to work in 1/8ths of a turn to get a big effect.
The winch is more than able to pull the 101 with the wheels locked up.
In pratice I use the front pintle with a tree trunk protector going around a tree on the front to stop the vehicle moving while I tend to winch the yotas/pootrols from the rear as the the jap stuff is usually much heavier than the 101.
I spray the storage drum chain with chain lube through the inspection hole with the rubber bung over it.
I use 90 gear oil for the two gearboxes on the winch.
It is recommented you use a cable tension load guage to set up the overload on the winch.
Peter you are the first person I know to pull a 101 winch apart.
You should be able to tell the rest of us about the internals of them.
Ron