Replacing the D3.... A Hypothetical Question

[DiscoSaffa]

Not A question I ever thought I would ask…… and to be fair it is not me asking it.

There is a “Why I love my Landy” or rather why I don’t love Land Rover at the moment post in this, but more on this elsewhere and later…….

As you may or may not know, my brother in law is selling his 05 D3. The urgency is no longer there, so he is faced with a few options. One of his options is just to keep the D3, the other is to replace. Last night he put a question to me and I found myself wondering.

At this stage with the trade in being offered by Land Rover on the older D3s (sub 20k in this case:eek:) and the price of a new D4, it is not really an option to replace the D3 with a D4. So the question he asked me was, if I were to replace my D3 now, and I had the following constraints, what would I replace it with? The constraints are as follows:

• Not wanting to spend more that $50/60k
• Must be a 4x4, but don’t need D3 type space, or 7 seats.
• Not necessarily new, but not older than a year
• Need to tow a boat, nothing huge, but bigger than a tinny
• Cheaper to run than a V6 D3.

The price throws out the LC 200, Prado probably also goes out on that basis. Pajero is just not a nice vehicle, which left me answering Nissan Patrol. :wasntme:

There are a lot of you out there who have just bought a D3, or are in the process of buying a 4x4, so my question to you is, what else is there out there that I am not thinking about? :confused:

Thanks in advance

DS

[WhiteD3]

Tell him to be patient and sell the D3 privately. It'll take some time but its worth it.

In recent years I've sold a Liberty 2.5 for 27k when I was offered 18k as trade-in on the D3. Took 3 months but worth it.

Sold a Forester for 14.5k when offered 8k on SWMBO's Golf. Took a week.

Also IMHO there's no point in looking at a D4 at the mo if you're price sensitive as I am :angel:. There's no deals and they can't keep up with the demand. Wait 12 months and the deals should start to flow.

[DiscoSaffa]

Tell him to be patient and sell the D3 privately. It'll take some time but its worth it.

In recent years I've sold a Liberty 2.5 for 27k when I was offered 18k as trade-in on the D3. Took 3 months but worth it.

Sold a Forester for 14.5k when offered 8k on SWMBO's Golf. Took a week.

Also IMHO there's no point in looking at a D4 at the mo if you're price sensitive as I am :angel:. There's no deals and they can't keep up with the demand. Wait 12 months and the deals should start to flow.

That was my initial advice..... hang on to the D3 for a bit, and the D4 deals (or D3 run out) will start to flow. I got an unbelievable deal on my D3 doing just that. That said, his D3 experience has not been a good one, all the horrors of an 05 model, so another Land Rover is not top of his want list at this stage. That said, there is NOTHING out there that offers what the D3 does as a package (including IMHO the D4).

There are a lot of us out there driving the V6 petrol (because the motor made it more affordable) that are going to find ourselves in a similar situation sooner or later. I have said it before, but by dropping the V6 from their line up, LR are going to loose sales.

[WhiteD3]

How about a used Tourag?

[DiscoSaffa]

How about a used Tourag?

It is funny, after reading Jamo's thread on his new Cayenne I thought about the Tourag this morning. I reckon that would be a good option.

[disco2hse]

Troopy ? :angel:

[DiscoSaffa]

Another question....... are there any warranty/insurance options available to an owner, after the factory warranty has expired?

[DiscoSaffa]

Troopy ? :angel:

WAHAHAHAHAhahahahaaaaaa :Rolling:

[disco2hse]

Another question....... are there any warranty/insurance options available to an owner, after the factory warranty has expired?

Best to read through the long and extensively discussed warranties thread. Same issues will apply.

[disco2hse]

WAHAHAHAHAhahahahaaaaaa :Rolling:

:D

Gowonn, they ain't that bad :p

[DiscoSaffa]

Best to read through the long and extensively discussed warranties thread. Same issues will apply.

I have....... albeit briefly, and the products spoken about there all seem to apply if bought while the vehicle is still under manufacturers warranty... hence the question.

[DiscoSaffa]

:D

Gowonn, they ain't that bad :p

I get the opportunity to drive them every so often on site..... and they are no D3...... but it does tick all the boxes, doesn't it.......

[Tombie]

I have said it before, but by dropping the V6 from their line up, LR are going to loose sales.

Sorry, but I have to disagree here...

As quick as they produce the vehicles they are sold... Demand outstrips supply... By reducing vehicle configurations they'll improve output and processing logistics...

The plants can only produce XX many units per day regardless...

The cheap base engine/spec vehicles in any manufacturers range have always suffered just what you're seeing now...Greatly reduced trade-in value, reduced desirability etc...

[DiscoSaffa]

Sorry, but I have to disagree here...

As quick as they produce the vehicles they are sold... Demand outstrips supply... By reducing vehicle configurations they'll improve output and processing logistics...

The plants can only produce XX many units per day regardless...

The cheap base engine/spec vehicles in any manufacturers range have always suffered just what you're seeing now...Greatly reduced trade-in value, reduced desirability etc...

Hi Tombie

I am afraid I in turn have to dis-agree, the SE V6 was (and this is my perception) the biggest selling D3 to the general market. If anyone has figures I am happy to be challenged on this.

What the V6 did was make it a viable alternative to the Prados of the world, and affordable to the likes of myself.

What they have done now is made the D4 an alternative to the LC 200, so they may have won over more buyers in that segment, but they will loose me as an Land Rover driver because of it in the future (unless my financial situation changes), they have lost my brother in-law, and they will loose others. But Land Rover’s attitude to that is that then perhaps we don’t deserve to drive a prestige brand like Land Rover…… *coughs into hand* so the heck with those of us that drive a poor man’s D3.

As for the petrol variants re-sale value, that is a perception issue. People are dead set on the tdV6, because they are told the V6 is a poor baby sister to the tdV6. I believe in time that will change, (expects to be shot down in flames) the tdV6 motor is only 5 years old, which to all intents and purposes is untested in our world……. It is a hi tech motor, that is one more piece in the puzzle to go wrong. That IMHO makes the tried and tested Ford Donk a desirable option as the vehicles age……..

The base engine spec argument, for me doesn't hold water as the 2.7 D4 is a lower spec than the bottom of the range D3 V6SE, and the same rules will apply to this in 4 years time, as apply to the V6 now.

As for demand outstripping supply, if that is a reason for Land Rover not chasing my (one of LR's biggest fans) business, and others like me, then perhaps I really need to rethink what car I drive.......

There we go, just my two cents worth…… and he waits for the barrage

[AnD3rew]

You say the Pajero is out because it is not a nice vehicle? what do you mean by that?

I have owned a Pajero and found it to be a great car, it is no D3, but then not much is. The styling can be a bit divisive, but I don't mind it, the car drives very well and is very capable off road, it has loads of space and you get lots of fruit for your money.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a Pajero.

[Tombie]

Hi Tombie

I am afraid I in turn have to dis-agree, the SE V6 was (and this is my perception) the biggest selling D3 to the general market. If anyone has figures I am happy to be challenged on this.

What the V6 did was make it a viable alternative to the Prados of the world, and affordable to the likes of myself.

What they have done now is made the D4 an alternative to the LC 200, so they may have won over more buyers in that segment, but they will loose me as an Land Rover driver because of it in the future (unless my financial situation changes), they have lost my brother in-law, and they will loose others. But Land Rover’s attitude to that is that then perhaps we don’t deserve to drive a prestige brand like Land Rover…… *coughs into hand* so the heck with those of us that drive a poor man’s D3.

As for the petrol variants re-sale value, that is a perception issue. People are dead set on the tdV6, because they are told the V6 is a poor baby sister to the tdV6. I believe in time that will change, (expects to be shot down in flames) the tdV6 motor is only 5 years old, which to all intents and purposes is untested in our world……. It is a hi tech motor, that is one more piece in the puzzle to go wrong. That IMHO makes the tried and tested Ford Donk a desirable option as the vehicles age……..

The base engine spec argument, for me doesn't hold water as the 2.7 D4 is a lower spec than the bottom of the range D3 V6SE, and the same rules will apply to this in 4 years time, as apply to the V6 now.

As for demand outstripping supply, if that is a reason for Land Rover not chasing my (one of LR's biggest fans) business, and others like me, then perhaps I really need to rethink what car I drive.......

There we go, just my two cents worth…… and he waits for the barrage

No barrage from me.... I accept your opinion ;)

You are right on the 2.7 D4, its going to suffer badly in 4-5 years for sure.

The V6 is an old donk, with a bad history in Exploders though.

When it came to put my old man into a D3 we looked at all the options.
The V6 was borrowed for a weekend, as was a TDV6.
The V6 couldn't cut it cost wise for fuel consumption, was much thirstier than the TDV6 when driven the same in the same area...
The deals were around then too (we waited for them) and got the brand new TDV6 SE with extras for a very (well over $15k off) nice drive-away price.

I understand what your saying too.... But the Prado isn't a competitor to the D3/D4 or the RRS... So LR are (unfortunately for most of us) targeting them against the LC200 and upcoming Patrol.

Hopefully, the new generation Defender replacement will fit the bill.

[disco2hse]

I have....... albeit briefly, and the products spoken about there all seem to apply if bought while the vehicle is still under manufacturers warranty... hence the question.

Not necessarily.

I think the issue there is that if you have an unbroken warranty period you are perceived as a lower risk and that will affect your premium. I have an extended warranty with Vero and that was purchased after the manufacturers warranty had run out. I had to have a full vehicle inspection before they agreed to take on the risk but the cost of the insurance is worth passing on the risk to them.

Alan

[DiscoSaffa]

You say the Pajero is out because it is not a nice vehicle? what do you mean by that?

I have owned a Pajero and found it to be a great car, it is no D3, but then not much is. The styling can be a bit divisive, but I don't mind it, the car drives very well and is very capable off road, it has loads of space and you get lots of fruit for your money.

I wouldn't be so quick to dismiss a Pajero.

Hi AnD3rew

That is not my opinion, but my brother in law's, and he didn't give his rationalle behind that statement. It may well be just the looks, because if you look at it objectively, it does tick all of his boxes.........

[trobbo]

Depending on what he wants to use it for, the following could all be options

Volvo XC90
Tourag
BMW X5

The x5 is very nice to drive.

BTW what is bil's (Brother In Law) problem with his D3?

[DiscoSaffa]

Depending on what he wants to use it for, the following could all be options

Volvo XC90
Tourag
BMW X5

The x5 is very nice to drive.

BTW what is bil's (Brother In Law) problem with his D3?

I would have thought, without much research that the X5 and XC90 would be too pricey.......

As for the D3, it is getting on and he is worried about ongoing maintenance costs.........

[mowog]

Wild card option....

An AWD Ford Territory.... :eek:

[Forest]

Not macho, and not that big, but how about suzuki Vitara. Great machine I am led to believe.

[Ashes]

I would actually struggle to tick any boxes with the Territory compared to the D3. Maybe initial purchase cost. Maybe servicing cost. Not much else.

[mowog]

I came from a Territory to a D4. I had it for 4 years. I brought it new. I was happy to see it go.

On the flip side I sold my XR6 Turbo Ute to help fund the D4. It was a special car that I miss. It sold in 3 days at the advertised price to a guy who drove it for the first time when he picked it up. It was simply the best car I have ever owned. That includes the D4.

I would have another XR6 Turbo Ute today. But I wouldn't have another Territory.

[sniegy]

Freelander 2 TD4, For that money he could even get a HSE ex demo or bargain into a new unit.
Get him to drive one, there are some good deals going at the moment.

Cheers

[Tote]

Wild card option....

An AWD Ford Territory.... :eek:

an even wilder possibility, a 2.7TDV6 Ford Territory if they ever get around to releasing it...

Regards,
Tote

[catch-22]

As for the D3, it is getting on and he is worried about ongoing maintenance costs.........

Surely ongoing maintenance will still be cheaper than a newish car...

[DiscoSaffa]

Surely ongoing maintenance will still be cheaper than a newish car...

More than likely, but the concern is the uncertainty of the costs with an 05 D3......

Having read the posts here and pondered it for 48 hours, I reckon the way to go is to hang onto the D3, buy and extended warranty and drive it for the next 3 or 4 years..........

With the costs of replacing mine, it is exactly what I plan to do in two years when my lease is up.......

[3toes]

You are right on the 2.7 D4, its going to suffer badly in 4-5 years for sure.

The V6 is an old donk, with a bad history in Exploders though.

This engine is not available here in the UK. Only the diesel and for a while the v8 petrol versions.

Is not the V6 the old Ford Cologne engine dating from the sixties? Not sure there have been significant problems with the engine though. It is used in a number of USA vehicles not just the Explorers.

There is rumour in the motor trade here that production is to finally cease and be replaced with a USA built engine. Almost all production goes to the USA. The engine has not seen use in Europe for a decade so Euro pricing makes it a very expensive option for a non Euro customer. If so perhaps the reason for it being deleted from the D4 version is that Ford signaled changed pricing or changed supply arrangements and it was no longer going to be economic to continue?

With the diesel engine being a Ford product no doubt the supply will be limited the same as BMW did on the Freelander D4 engine once they sold the business to Ford. Land Rover could have sold many more D4 Freelanders however BMW would not supply the engines. Of course Ford also sells their diesel engines to Peugeot who did a deal to manufacture the 4 cylinder version themselves. So they may be more flexible than BMW in this respect. While not something the general public associates with the brand Ford is the largest producer of diesel engines in the world. Their modern diesel range is also some of the best most reliable engines too.

[DiscoSaffa]

This engine is not available here in the UK. Only the diesel and for a while the v8 petrol versions.

The UK market is big on diesels, the V8 D2 only sold in very limited numbers there, the Tdi and Td5 being the bigger sellers, so it is no surprise that the V6 was not a big seller in the UK. Especially bearing in mind the cost of fuel.


Is not the V6 the old Ford Cologne engine dating from the sixties? Not sure there have been significant problems with the engine though. It is used in a number of USA vehicles not just the Explorers.

To my knowledge this is the motor. My old man had it in 3l form in Ford Sapphire in RSA, that he eventually sold having done 300 000km. It is still used there in 4l form in the courier bakkies (utes).

[Tombie]

I just find it remarkable that a vehicle is considered to be 'getting on' in age after 4 1/2 years and sub 400,000kms in a modern society :eek:

[disco2hse]

I just find it remarkable that a vehicle is considered to be 'getting on' in age after 4 1/2 years and sub 400,000kms in a modern society :eek:

It's a fact I'm afraid. **sigh**

And the new Defender probably won't be any different.

[DiscoSaffa]

I just find it remarkable that a vehicle is considered to be 'getting on' in age after 4 1/2 years and sub 400,000kms in a modern society :eek:

Sad but true in our current throw away society....... I wonder how many of today's vehicles will still be around in 40 years...... the series 1s amongst us will still be going strong, and not a D3 in sight I reckon......

[rmp]

N...Prado probably also goes out on that basis. Pajero is just not a nice vehicle, which left me answering Nissan Patrol. :wasntme:


DS you have posted some funny stuff but that is one of the most roflsome lines thus far!

[rmp]

I would actually struggle to tick any boxes with the Territory compared to the D3. Maybe initial purchase cost. Maybe servicing cost. Not much else.

Anonymity.

[jonesfam]

The average age of the Australian car fleet (all cars on the road) is over 9 years. The exact figure is 9 point something but I have forgotten.
So, a 5/6 year old car is NOT old by Aus standards.
Last year before buying the D3 I looked at a LC200 - not a lot for the money, A Jeep Commander - big outside small inside poor build odd seating, Prado - not much for the money doughy engine & a Patrol - old fashioned slug that drives like a truck. My Patrol ute drives better.
Has your BIL thought about a Pathfinder?
I didn't like mine but it might be worth a look. The V6 petrol has heaps of go, the new 3lt that is on the way might be OK, they are smaller than a D3 but OK if you don't use the rear seats, build quality is ordinary compared to a D3 but they are reliable. The auto goes well with the petrol, get the manual if you buy a diesel, the 4WD system is pretty good but the suspension lifts wheels all over the place.
I'm not recommending 1 as I didn't like mine but it may suit your BIL.
Jonesfam

[jtonline]

Brand new pathfinder would fit the BIL, but saying that I was looking at a new TI Pathfinder and still went with the 06 V6SE D3 as it was much much nicer, better build, better drive, more comfortable. Pathfinders need a lift for 4WD they scrap their belly's.

I have gone the road of the extended warranty (4 years) and plan on keeping the D3 till it is finished in 2013 (7 years old) not that old for a modern car really, I think we all just get scared that they will cost to much to fix because they aren't 'basic' non electrical/computer controlled engines etc. But compare the costs of Dollars lost on resale and purchase of a new car, and it's dollars lost and the extended warranty and servicing costs might not even be a factor.

Eg. Buy a new D4 and in four years time you will have lost about $30-$40K in value. Do you think you will spend that on servicing the d3 in the next four years. I think not, (well I am really hoping not). Maybe my maths is not good?

[scarry]

Eg. Buy a new D4 and in four years time you will have lost about $30-$40K in value. Do you think you will spend that on servicing the d3 in the next four years. I think not, (well I am really hoping not). Maybe my maths is not good?

I have looked at the D4 for a while as i should be upgrading the D2.

It is difficult to work out depreciation costs in real terms,the D3 will also depreciate,& you will be further behind after 4 yrs.
But you have saved a heap of money you could use for something else....

I only need 5 seats,but don't want to spend 85K+ & get the 2.7.I want the 3l for that sort of money.I haven't had a real good look at prices,but i think a SE 3L will be around 90K.

I recon after 4 yrs,you would do well over 40K in depreciation.Sure,my business will offset some of the cost,but still it's a lot of money to lose.

I wish they had the V8 at a reasonable price,as we don't do many k's,would suit us.

Have looked at the other brands as well,but the D4 seems to tick all the boxes

[Disco4SE]

Hi Scarry, Being the proud owner of a 3.0 D4 SE I highly recommend them. I have had 3 Landcruisers, last one being a 2005 Turbo Deisel which I bought new.
Keep in mind that the later model Disco's are holding their value alot better, especially the deisels. I did the exercise with the Landcruiser prior to buying the Disco.

[scarry]

Hi Scarry, Being the proud owner of a 3.0 D4 SE I highly recommend them. I have had 3 Landcruisers, last one being a 2005 Turbo Deisel which I bought new.
Keep in mind that the later model Disco's are holding their value alot better, especially the deisels. I did the exercise with the Landcruiser prior to buying the Disco.


I will eventually end up with one,but just dunno when.:):)

Pity they don't have a 3L 5 seater either.