School building projects?

[Dave1]

I just don't get it.

Private builder gets this brick building built for $ 330 000
Goverment gets involved via stimulus package and gets the second building built for $ 908 000 somebody is going to be able to afford a whole lot of new toys soon one thinks.

The buildings are at the same school.

[BMKal]

I just don't get it.

Private builder gets this brick building built for $ 330 000
Goverment gets involved via stimulus package and gets the second building built for $ 908 000 somebody is going to be able to afford a whole lot of new toys soon one thinks.

Ahhhh - but the government built one will have the best insulation there is. :wasntme:

[ScottW]

You obviously haven't worked on a govt or council job :)

They have many departments that review all designs. Different departments want different things. Many times what one department wants directly conflicts with another department. 500 changes are made, extras are added and then removed, the building costs triple and yet still all the private contractors involved lose money on the project.

Govts and councils are generally the employment safetynet for people who weren't good enough to keep a job in the private sector. The smart ones that are good at their job get out.

[BMKal]

Govts and councils are generally the employment safetynet for people who weren't good enough to keep a job in the private sector. The smart ones that are good at their job get out.

:arms::arms::twobeers:

Well - at least in some departments, anyway.

[Dave1]

But still. It looks a little more comfortable than my mates shed of the same size that did not cost $908 000. I think we might be heading in the insulation debacle path here again.:wasntme:

[Rosscoe68]

caution, gross overgeneralisation coming :)
unfortunately this is nothing new with govt departments and govt tendering. if a private company was run like any govt dept they would go broke in no time. tey we tax payers are here to support the govt so they can keep going. used to be the case, don't know if it still happens, that sections of perfectly good road would be ripped up and re laid that were easy to get to so they quarterly/annual/ whatever budget was met and the departments would continue to get funding. if the funding for a period isnt spent, the next period that dept will get a smaller budget, so instead of encouraging money saving in govt, they are discouraging it.

[cucinadio]

I just don't get it.

Private builder gets this brick building built for $ 330 000
Goverment gets involved via stimulus package and gets the second building built for $ 908 000 somebody is going to be able to afford a whole lot of new toys soon one thinks.

The buildings are at the same school.


and I'm sure the 330,000 one was at largely inflated price as well ...[bigwhistle]....[bighmmm]mmmmmmmmm.let me see ...im sure that builder was really nice to them and reduced his take just for the good of the school....even the average council grader contractor is clued into inflating a price because its a council job...jjjjjjssssss makes me wonder sometimes ....

hop that was al pelt right and on contex......:D

cheers

[redrover3]

Exactly the situation we're in at my school. Very frustrating. End up with an empty building instead of a fully equipped centre.
Tony

[ezyrama]

I have a mate who "works" for Q Build on the gold coast who got into trouble from his boss for not going to a particular supplier to purchase items to repair a faulty refrigeration unit. When his boss asked him why he didn't go to the regular supplier he answered, "because those guys are drain dead morons who haven't got a clue. The guys I went to, I used in my last job all the time, they have the technical knowledge to back me up if I need to ask questions and they are a damned sight cheaper for the same brand items". His boss replied " Mate we are Q Build we are not here to make money"!

Another mate who is in the same game worked for Q Build and was told when spotted repairing a refrigerant leak on a unit only 2 years old. " Dont repair it, we get a set budget each year and if we dont spend it all they will reduce it next year, so just replace the whole unit" The mind boggles!

[Basil135]

We are doing the same thing at our school.

The price to do the work is hugely inflated. It is simply a case of supply and demand. The builders have all the work they need at the moment, so if you want it built, you will pay their price.

Now, most schools will jump at the chance of a free building, even with all of the conditions attached. But the money wont be around forever, so the builders are having to pay their tradies more to do the work.

In 2 years time, the prices will be back to normal, but then the fund-raising activities will start again.

Yes, the prices are inflated. We had to scale back the size of our building, and do without some things. But at the end of the day, our school gets a new building that we would never have been able to afford.

[Ralph1Malph]

I don't mind the final cost. It's the competitive tender process I am concerned about! Or lack of it.
Why is there no competition mechanism?

This will go pear shaped like the insulation thing.

Ralph

[zulu Delta 534]

The first builder probably built the building for cost plus a modest profit margin, possibly only 1 x Range Rover Sport.
When the Government called for tenders for the second building, the cluey winning tenderer would have included $300,000 for his trouble of submitting the paper work, $300,000 kickback for the Government tender Officer, and then subbied the original builder to do the work, after screwing him down somewhat to about $308,000 and everyone is happy. The original builder now has a D4 for his wife as well!
That's how the system works.
Regards
Glen

[pando]

At the local where my nippers go (and I went) they are finishing off the stimulus money works at the moment.

While the work they have done seems to be ok, albeit a bit slow and to start with there were a few instances where the kiddies safety was put at risk, it's just from my point of view I'm not convinced that the money could have been better spent elsewhere in the school.

What we have ended up with is a flash new library, in the place of the old one (which the kiddies are going without at the moment because the project has dragged on) which really didn't need doing in the first place (it may have been old, but it was clean and solid as far as a library needs to be). The major bug bear of the P&F and the teachers for some time has been the carpark and bus parking (or lack of) out the front of the school, which has been an accident waiting to happen for some time, and the pathways leading to the school which nothing has been done. No new shade has been erected or any of the cracked and broken pathways or playgrounds fixed but we have a nice new (also smaller then the last due to the new design) place for the books to live while they are not being read.

I'm just wondering if there should have been a bit more consultation with the broader community before money was spent?

Discussed my concerns with one of the other parents and was told (in not so many words) that the application and approval of the funds and what they were to be spent on had to be, and was, rushed through so fast that no one had any chance to say anything about it.

Kinda sad really, I suppose on the bright side 5 chippies and 2 sparkies got to keep their job for 6 months.

[big guy]

I am sure there is some more meat in the gov job but we must also look at the construction type and what is included.
One is light weight on what looks like a free standing site and very small slab.
The other is a attached, solid brick with commercial aluminium windows, probably ducted aircon and some wet ares. Speculating there!!!
The gov builder would have to 100% adhere to the building code and all of its site specific regulations.

The slab also looks a mile thick with a 900mm build up and steps etc.

The margin quickly diminishes in the construction industry and the lightweight job may even have more margin as in gov jobs and many hard tender larger jobs, its tendered at 0-Zero margin and only 1 in 10 tenders on average are won.
Than once a tender is won, they grind down the relative trades and suppliers and get their margin which often only is 10-15%.

These are some cold hard facts I live with everyday as a builder.

Just keep those in mind when comparing what seems to me like a D4 and a Kia.;)