Dealer statements re Snorkel and Tow bar

[DukeR]

Hi all,

Starting to get some feedback now re my inquiries with dealers.

Two that surprised me are as follows:

The Landrover raised air intake is not sealed and therefore doesn’t increase your wading depth, whereas the aftermarket ones are designed to be sealed and are marketed as snorkels.


And


the genuine towbar in Australia is a Hayman Reese style and is not adjustable


Any comments/experience with this?


Cheers,

Duke

[ugu80]

The Landrover raised air intake is not sealed and therefore doesn’t increase your wading depth, whereas the aftermarket ones are designed to be sealed and are marketed as snorkels.



Then whats the point of getting the L/R intake?

Bought a safari snorkel last year. Chose it ahead of the competition only because it has an indentation to accomodate the mirror arm and allows full door opening whereas the others allow the mirror arm to hit and stops the door opening that last little bit.

[KarlB]

The OEM raised air intake is not 'officially' designed to increase the wading depth above the half metre depth. And I would be very surprised if any manufacturer claimed that theirs did. They would be throwing them selves open to all sorts of claims re hydrauliced engines. However the original equipment one is sealed as you can probably glean from the attached PDF. If it wasn’t then it would serve no purpose as it would not efficiently draw cleaner air from above the vehicle.

As for the tow bar, I cannot comment other than to say Hayman Reece have advised me that they do not yet make a towbar suitable for a Puma D90.

[DukeR]

Hey ugu80

Hadn't even considered the clearance for the mirror arm...

Presumably the LR intake doesn't impede the door opening in any way?

Cheers,

Duke

[VladTepes]

That's a big presumption....

[Drover]

Hey all,

The Land Rover ducting on the PUMA's, from inside the front guard to the air box is not sealed, but rather push/sleaved together. Also the collector inside the guard only pushes against the inside of the guard and again is not sealed.

Further the ducting is not mandrel bent and is squeezed very close together in places, denying an un-interrupted flow of air to the air box.

It is much better idea to replace this ducting with something suitable eg: marine exhaust tubing (rubber tubing with an inbuilt spring to stop collapsing) sika-flexed or similar together.

This will ensure a water tight seal, that you can rely on.

[dmdigital]

As mentioned about the ducting. That said I very much doubt any manufacturer would claim their RAI to be truly able to increase wading depth.

I fitted the Mantec (pretty much the same as the new LR OEM unit). The Safari wasn't available back then. It has an exceptionally good profile and doesn't foul the mirror. It isn't even really visible from the driver's seat either. The Safari in the respect is the same as it has always been.

As for the tow bar the OEM is very similar to but isn't the HR bar. It allows you to keep the rear step and doesn't spoil the departure angel like the ARB/TJM ones do on the 110. None of these are adjustable in hight except by getting a different shaped tongue in the receiver (or inverting it).

[slug_burner]

As mentioned about the ducting. That said I very much doubt any manufacturer would claim their RAI to be truly able to increase wading depth.

I fitted the Mantec (pretty much the same as the new LR OEM unit). The Safari wasn't available back then. It has an exceptionally good profile and doesn't foul the mirror. It isn't even really visible from the driver's seat either. The Safari in the respect is the same as it has always been.

As for the tow bar the OEM is very similar to but isn't the HR bar. It allows you to keep the rear step and doesn't spoil the departure angel like the ARB/TJM ones do on the 110. None of these are adjustable in hight except by getting a different shaped tongue in the receiver (or inverting it).

The tongue or goose neck can be obtained such that it is adjustable, they use plate on the end of the 50 mm SHS (RHS) with several holes to allow the attachment of an "L" shaped bracket with the towball at a variety of heights. They are not your standard goose neck and I don't know where to get them, I would ask at a place that sells caravans or other big trailers like horse floats or boat trailers.

As for the water tighness of RAI, DYI silastic or other such sealant. I don't know that I would trust that the fitter made it water tight.

[KarlB]

Ok, this was my thinking about a RAI:

Max recommended wading depth is 50 cm. Any deeper should be attempted with extreme caution and you should use a wading sheet across the front of your vehicle to make a bow wave and to stop the fan hitting the water and bending into the radiator (even though it has a viscous coupling). Bottom of current air intake is at about 90 cm above ground level. What I want the RAI to do is stop water ingress in to the air intake from splashing and the trailing bow wave. The air line inside of the engine bay from the inlet (with or without RAI) to the air box rises slightly and is also about 90 cm above ground.

How deep is 90 cm? Do you really want to wade through water that deep for any distance? At that depth water will be lapping the bottom of your seat cushions, the electrics under the drivers seat, and the battery and what ever else you have, under the passenger seat will be under water. There will be nearly 15 cm of water in the back of your vehicle.

Oh, and the OEM RAI certainly doesn't interfere with the door opening and is barely visible (by the driver) from inside the cab.

I have only twice been in water approaching 90 cm deep for any distance. Both times getting through flood waters in a SWB Series 3 diesel. No electronics to worry about there. It took my mate about a week to dry out his seat cushions. I was running large tyres and had just a little bit more height.

Cheers
KarlB

[DukeR]

Thanks dm_td5,

The dealer told me that the "genuine" tow bar would actually be the HR bar - perhaps that's just the bar that this dealer fits...

Cheers,

Duke

[Drover]

The propeller effect of the fan turning into the radiator is negligible with PUMA as the fan is a least 40cm from the radiator. The fan blades are not long enough to reach.

With that said I agree that a water blind or similar should be used when crossing deep water, 500mm +.

Last year Nolan’s brook on the OTL was over 750mm, and is about 40m across. I went across in a D3 with a sealed up Land Rover RAI and a water blind, No water enter the vehicle what so ever and the carpets were dry, as was the engine bay. The rest of the group a Patrol, LR 200 & 100, Rodeo and Troppey also went across, all with no water in the vehicles.

The only time that water will enter the vehicle and wet the seats/electrics is if you stop, get stuck or are just going way to slow.

[slug_burner]

The propeller effect of the fan turning into the radiator is negligible with PUMA as the fan is a least 40cm from the radiator. The fan blades are not long enough to reach.

With that said I agree that a water blind or similar should be used when crossing deep water, 500mm +.

Last year Nolan’s brook on the OTL was over 750mm, and is about 40m across. I went across in a D3 with a sealed up Land Rover RAI and a water blind, No water enter the vehicle what so ever and the carpets were dry, as was the engine bay. The rest of the group a Patrol, LR 200 & 100, Rodeo and Troppey also went across, all with no water in the vehicles.

The only time that water will enter the vehicle and wet the seats/electrics is if you stop, get stuck or are just going way to slow.

or the water comes in via your air vents

[solmanic]

With regard to the tow bar question - the LR genuine bar enables you to keep the rear folding step. The aftermarket HR bar does not. Also the HR bar gives you more options for fitting a long range fuel tank, but the genuine one blocks that space under the rear of the vehicle meaning you have to fit a smaller tank in the space behind the rear wheel.

I'm not sure whether or not the genuine bar isn't also made by Hayman Reece, but they are quite different. The genuine bar has a round horizontal member and looks a bit more discreet when fitted, and the HR bar has a square section that sits out further under the rear chassis cross member.

Both bars are rated the same so it essentially comes down to whether you want the step or not, and what you plan to do in the way of adding a long range fuel tank.

[KarlB]

G'day solmanic

Do you know what the part no. is for the genine tow bar? That would help me chase a suitable to bar for my Puma D90.

Cheers
KarlB

[DukeR]

Thanks solmanic,

That's useful info - I will want to fit long-range tanks later, though not sure whether I'd use rear or sill (or both) just yet - but this would at least give me the option.

Cheers

Duke

[miky]

G'day solmanic

Do you know what the part no. is for the genine tow bar? That would help me chase a suitable to bar for my Puma D90.

Cheers
KarlB

There was a thread recently about LR fitting a different bar on the 90 compared to the 110.
Might be best to check that a 110 bar will fit the 90.

[KarlB]

The D110 tow bar will definitely not fit the D90. I asked the spare parts guy at the local dealership to see what he could find out for me and his advice, as of an hour ago, was that LRA advised him that a tow bar for the D90 was in development. Apparently the 'OEM' ones as you see advertised in the LR accessories brochure etc., do not meet the Australian Design Rules standard. Consequently LRA gets compliant bars manufactured locally (but not by Hayman Reece).:confused:

[DukeR]

Hmmm,

Rovacraft have a tow bar in their catalogue for the 90, and a drop plate... no electrics though.

http://www.rovacraft.com.au/products/catalogue/britpart/towing_equipment.pdf

p. 42

Cheers,

Duke

[Drover]

Long Range Automotive Melbourne, make a replacement tank for the 110.

It is 135L capacity and is designed for use with factory tow bar/Step and does not interfere with the rear sway bay.

The other option is the “Long Ranger” tank that requires the ARB tow bar. It is 120L capacity I believe (not sure).

I have been told that the HR or ARB tow bars reduce with the departure angle substantially.

[100inch]

Hmmm...I have following to say about the snorkel/ high air intake. Well, a TD5 based report, but I guess it is the same story on the Puma range. Fitting time according to Mantec UK (who made the one sold by LR) for the lot is about 8hrs, which includes sealing of the whole intake system and airbox. LR (and others) allow 2hrs...LR Europe and NA makes it very, very clear it is a device to reduce dust and NOT increase wading deep ,as far as I know.regards m

[DukeR]

Thanks 100,

Yeah that's a fair ol' difference in time spent sealing. Think I'll probably leave the snorkel off my list and go with an aftermarket one like safari.

Cheers,

Duke

[Bundalene]

I dismantle the occasional Series2 Disco and have come across 2 vehicles with snorkels, which appeared to be in good order. During dismantling, they were found not to be sealed at all on the inner guard joint, just a push fit , just where you can't see the workmanship. In one of the cases there was a gap in the pipe, probably because the installer had difficulty fitting it. Most times they are correctly sealed with no chance of leaking.

I have installed snorkels on 3 of our own Defenders and always sealed them all the way back to the air box, leaving the flapper valve in the circuit.

This job on a Defender can be a PITA, mainly due to the awkward positions of 2 of the screws down inside the guard. Choose your installer carefully.


Erich

[scott oz]

...............leaving the flapper valve in the circuit. ..................


Erich


I've see this comment before along with the comment that Safari recomend it be taken out:angel:

Does the valve need servicing.

So what's the flapper valve and pro/cons laking it out against leaving it in:confused:

Thanks

[Bundalene]

Hi, this is a one way valve to let water out of the air system during driving rain.

Pros - saves the air filter from getting saturated, ... or even more ...

Cons - must be maintained to make sure it is still pliable and not permanently open. I am unsure of the service life.

By removing it you probably remove the posibility of it ever leaking.

People living in the tropics often turn their snorkel intake to a backward facing position during the wet season.

Erich

[landfish]

Hi all,

Just a quick side note on the Safari snorkels, Safari have recently made a replacement snorkel so that the 1 model (SS581HF) fits both the TD5 and TD4, and have dropped prices dramatically to be more competitive in the market from $505.00 RRP to $325 RRP.

I have been told they can drop prices this much as this is their biggest selling snorkel (they sell tons of them in Europe and UK).

Cheers,

Andrew.