ID my firewall please?

[akelly]

Hi All,

I was just looking through some pics to upload for my gallery - I forgot that I had taken this one with the intent of posting so someone can help me out.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/375.jpg

I'm wondering if this is the standard 6cyl firewall? Its in my SIIA 88 so by rights is not original (apparently there were no 6cyl 88s) - it certainly looks like it belongs to this car though so I'm not sure what the story is. I know that this car has been given a rebuild at some point in its life (probably when it got the 186) because the paint in the cabin is like brand-new and its just too good underneath (chassis etc...) to be original! Unfortunately I dont have the history and the PO had no idea either.

The reason I need help is that I have a shin-burner heater that I bought about 2 years ago - but I'm buggered if it will fit in between the firewall and the gear stick. I've seen 6cyl with this heater before, so it should fit. I'm thinking that the 6cyl gearbox may sit further back, making more room - anyone know if this is right?

My plan is to get the gear stick bent to allow room for the heater - not the most elegant solution but the easiest/cheapest. Its a shame that the firewall is in excellent condition, otherwise I could justify replacing it with a 4cyl one! Interestingly, I have the same problem when trying to fit a hand-throttle - there is not enough clearance between the firewall and the edge of the dash to fit the hand-throttle assembly.

Someone shed some light on this for me?

Cheers,

Adam

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Looking at the only image you have provided I can absolutely confirm that it is a GREEN ONE other than that I can only suggest that it may be a 6 cyl type.

A side profile image will confirm it.

With the Holden conversion. Has the radiator been moved forward and the front chassis cross-member been cut to clear the bottom of the radiator?

If NO, then your gearbox may have been moved back to the 6 cyl position, in which case you will have a 6 cyl firewall.

Diana

[akelly]

Hi Diana,

there hasn't been any cutting or moving of stuff in the conversion - it looks like it rolled out of the factory with the holden donk. I guess that means it is a 6cyl firewall (yep, and green!) - I still dont understand why the heater doesn't fit though - I've definitely seen pics of 6cyl landies with the same heater...:confused:

Cheers,

Adam

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip> ...
I still dont understand why the heater doesn't fit though - I've definitely seen pics of 6cyl landies with the same heater...:confused:

Cheers,
AdamAdam

Are you talking about the long flat type of heater that fits across the front of the dash panel below the instrument panel?

If that's the one you mean there are at least 3 types. The type on the lightweight and two models for the Series IIa. A 4 cyl type and a 6 cyl type.

The difference between the 4 and 6 cyl types are that the holes for the pipes are on opposite sides to each other.

Diana

[Sideroad]

Some pics of mine, 1968 109 2A 6cyl with a holden 179. Has a temporary 4cyl gear stick (bent rather than straight) as the original snapped off a few weeks ago, but still had plenty of room near heater.
Sorry about the pics, they are right way up on my computer but seem to be wrong when uploaded.

[akelly]

Diana,

yes, its the flat heater (same as the one in Sideroads pics). I know there are different versions with the pipe locations changed, but thats not my issue - the issue is the depth of the heater is greater than the space between the gearstick and the firewall, that includes when the pipes are fed through and the heater is sitting flush with the firewall.

My firewall does not have the same amount of clearance from the gearstick as the pics that Sideroad has posted. I have no idea why!

This may remain a mystery for the ages... but damn it, I will get that heater to fit somehow (gearstick heating and bending will do the trick I think).

Cheers,

Adam

[Sideroad]

What is the distance from the front of your pulley to the front cross member? I can check mine to see if the engines are in the same location and start to work our way backwards to see how the conversion was done. (mine is 166mm) I suspect your engine/trans is mounted further forward then a standard six, maybe still in the original 4cyl location?
I have 253mm from top of seat base to vertical face of fire wall hump(part below my heater)

[akelly]

Hi Sideroad,

good idea, but I'm laid up with a busted leg at the moment - cant really get out and do much measuring! After reading Diana's post, I think they must have put the 6cyl firewall in when the 186 was fitted - as I say, it looks like it belongs there, not like some others I've seen. I assume that because the firewall is different, but the gearbox is in the same location, that this is why the clearance is less - just my theory... My firewall is definitely different to yours, which looks more like the other pics of 6cyl firewalls I have seen - mine seems to be a bastard child!

Once I can get up and about I will check a few measurements, take a few more pics and put them up - maybe someone can give me a better idea about how to fit the heater...

cheers,

Adam

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Diana,

yes, its the flat heater (same as the one in Sideroads pics). I know there are different versions with the pipe locations changed, but thats not my issue - the issue is the depth of the heater is greater than the space between the gearstick and the firewall, that includes when the pipes are fed through and the heater is sitting flush with the firewall.
<snip>Adam

There was a Smiths heater which looked like one of the flat ones on steroids with the end vents coming out at an angle, I had one years ago, there was no way it would have ever fitted on a 6 cyl firewall.

Some people suggested it was for the forward control, but I think it was more likely something out of a British truck of some type.

[akelly]

Nah, this heater came out of a 4cyl landy - the PO sent me a pic before I bought it (the heater). I'd like to see the bigger one though - I've had a few crazy ideas about putting a heater in the back...

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip> I'd like to see the bigger one though - I've had a few crazy ideas about putting a heater in the back...Get one from a Toyota coaster bus or similar. They are small, self contained and sit on the floor, you could put them in the back corner with minimal loss of space.

[UncleHo]

G'day akelly :)

That firewall in the 1st post does look like a Series 2a model 6 cylinder firewall as does the matching gearlever :) it could have been from a 6 cyl 109, or it could have been original fittment, giving possible proof to the rumour that there were some 6 cylinder 88's built.

cheers

[akelly]

Everytime I look around the car for signs that its been "mucked about with" I cant really see any evidence - either the guy that did the mods did an outstanding job (that's pretty rare!) or it came out this way. I think its a late IIA (got the plastic grill) so maybe they were running out of 4cyl firewalls? Most likely its been rebuilt using a 6cyl donor vehicle plus some SIII bits (vacuum brakes) - another mystery for the ages...

When I'm a bit more mobile I'll get some pics from around the inside of the engine bay etc..., that may help with working out what's happened. In the meantime I'm left with the only option to fit the heater being some mods to the gearstick (and hi/low range stick) - not ideal but its better than cutting away at the firewall.

Cheers,

Adam

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Everytime I look around the car for signs that its been "mucked about with" I cant really see any evidence - either the guy that did the mods did an outstanding job (that's pretty rare!) or it came out this way. I think its a late IIA (got the plastic grill) so maybe they were running out of 4cyl firewalls? Most likely its been rebuilt using a 6cyl donor vehicle plus some SIII bits (vacuum brakes) - another mystery for the ages...
<snip>
Cheers,
AdamSorry Adam the assumptions are incorrect.
There were no IIa plastic grills
Never happened
There are some very talented restorers/mechanics out there. You only have to look, there is a SIIa 88" in Sydney that was a "nut and bolt restoration" everything was taken apart even the gal capping removed. Even the Made in Australia stickers were reproduced. The vehicle today is better than any that came off the production line.

[UncleHo]

G'day akelly :)

As Lotz-A-Landies said, there were NO plastic grilled Series 2/2a's only Series 3's,all 2/2a's including the later headlights in mudguard models had wire grilles, could you please post up the first 4 digits of your Chassis number/vin plate No, as then we can identify what the vehicle is,as I think that you may have a Series 3 are the instruments in the centre of the steel dash,or are they in front of the driver and in a plastic housing?. The brake booster is also an indication of being a 6 cylinder vehicle, BUT boosted brakes was an option on both 2a's & 3's fitted with 4cyl motors in both 88"and 109" vehicles. where are your headlights positioned?? are they in the front panel or in the guards?


cheers

[akelly]

Fair enough, Diana. As I say, perhaps there was a 6cyl donor car used in the rebuild. It does have SIII vacuum brakes, but the rest of the car seems to be SIIA - unfortunately it didn't get the 6cyl brakes, so maybe only the firewall came from that car?

I'm not saying that there aren't good resto-jobs around - just that they are rare. I think we all know its far more common to see butchered jobs with hacked up conversions and bodgy workmanship around land rovers. I'm gald whoever did mine did a good job - just the sort of work I would have done myself (I like to think).:angel:

On the grill - I got told that the last IIA's got the plastic grill, obviously wrong. Luckily I found a metal grill a while ago - just waiting to get some wires straightened out before I fit it, another stalled job!

On a separate topic - has anyone fitted a VH44 booster to the clutch? I've got a brand new one in the shed from an old mini project that has long gone and now I have one weak leg (the clutch one) I was thinking of using it to lighten the load. I dont see any reason why it wouldn't work but someone may be able to correct me?

Cheers,

Adam

[akelly]

Sorry UncleHo - I was typing as you were posting!

The chassis number is 2432****H (body: LRS15417, Ser No: 8815417). The lights are in the guards. The gearbox is definitely SIIA (no syncho) although I cant remember what suffix, when I rebuilt the t'case it was the correct one for the box etc...

Interesting that the boosted brakes were avail in the IIA, I didn't know that.

Cheers,

Adam

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Sorry UncleHo - I was typing as you were posting!

The chassis number is 2432****H (body: LRS15417, Ser No: 8815417). The lights are in the guards. The gearbox is definitely SIIA (no syncho) although I cant remember what suffix, when I rebuilt the t'case it was the correct one for the box etc...

Interesting that the boosted brakes were avail in the IIA, I didn't know that.

Cheers,

AdamSuffix H is the last suffix letter so it is a wide headlamp model probably build in 1971 (but may not have been delivered till 1972)

Boosted brakes were fitted to all 109" six cylinder SIIa originally it was a Clayton Dewandre in line type, then a PBR unit in Australia. The booster on the pedal box were only fitted to Suffix G and H 6 cyl models.

BTW what you have given us is the PMC body serial numbers the "LRS" = Land Rover Short wheelbase, the same as the next one 88 = short wheelbase then the serial number.

If it's a Grenville motors unit, we can't tell you anything else without the complete chassis serial number.

[akelly]

whole number is: ****0454H

[Lotz-A-Landies]

whole number is: ****0454HUnfortunately it doesn't appear in the Grenville Motors books so can't tell you anything other than vehicles within 100 either side were sold in December 1971 and January 1972.

Diana

[akelly]

Ah well, I've learnt stacks today anyway! Thanks Diana and UncleHo.

Can't wait to get stuck back into the landy now that I've banished motorbikes from my life!

[UncleHo]

G'day akelly :)

I too have a slightly re-arranged left leg :) I'm at the monent awaiting a knee replacement,MVA,blew a tyre and went off the side of a mountain in 1973,if I had been riding the bike(BMW) I could have chucked it down the road and stepped off. I have found that the seating position in the 2a has helped to keep the strength in that leg, even now that I need a walking stick to get around.:)

It appears that you have a very late 2a Shorty :D and if you have the original wide wire grille you are a very lucky bloke, as they are like hen's teeth.


cheers

[Jeff]

Using a VH44 booster for a clutch would be excessive I think, there are other vehicles with boosted clutchs, I think some Ni**ans, and possibly Coasters. They look like miniature VH44s. I looked at fitting one to my first 2A as it had a killer clutch, but my last 2A, an H suffix wagon had an extremely light clutch, but I don't know which master or slave cylinders it had, perhaps you could try different ones with a better ratio.

Jeff

:rocket:

[akelly]

Hey Jeff,

I'm thinking along similar lines, the 44 is pretty massive (but I do alreay have one...). Doing some sweet google research over the weekend, it appears that the Ford Maverick had a clutch servo - there must be heaps of those in wrecking yards hey?

Good tip on changing bore size in the cylinders too, I'll look into that.

Cheers,

Adam

[shaunh]

Hey Jeff,

I'm thinking along similar lines, the 44 is pretty massive (but I do alreay have one...). Doing some sweet google research over the weekend, it appears that the Ford Maverick had a clutch servo - there must be heaps of those in wrecking yards hey?

Good tip on changing bore size in the cylinders too, I'll look into that.

Cheers,

Adam

there would be tonnes more nissan patrols in wrecking yard than mavericks considering their only difference is badges

[akelly]

yeah, but its too easy to slag off patrols - I thought I'd share the love!

Cheers,

Adam