a question from my metal exam

[Landy Smurf]

hey this is a question from my metal exam i got it wrong according to the teacher but the rest of the class got it right.lets see what you say.what is this tool?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/1647.jpg

[awabbit6]

An outside micrometer.

What was your answer?

[pop058]

An outside micrometer.

What was your answer?

What He Said (metric one if you want to get picky)

[Landy Smurf]

yes that was my answer and i got it wrong everyone else just wrote micrometer

[Landy Smurf]

i agued the point and stated the 3 different types of micrometers and the teacher and the other students said no there is only one type.not a happy chappy.

[banjo]

yep thats a outside micrometer.
i have one in the shed.I also have the inside micrometer.

[Landy Smurf]

exactly really i should get it right and the others should get it wrong.now some of you might be thinking geez its only a mark but when your doing the hsc 1 mark can be the difference between 50th and 100th.also if i get marked wrong on this one whats to say others have been marked wrong.i did actually pick him up on a few mistakes he made.which saw me get another mark

[Mick_Marsh]

That happens in schools. It also happens in life after school. Be happy in the knowledge that you're smarter than that yoghurt of an instructor you have.
On the other hand, if your instructor is really smart.
Be happy in the knowledge that you're smarter than that really smart instructor you have and actually smarter than others think you are.

regards
Mick

[KarlB]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/1654.jpg

[Landy Smurf]

and then you have an internal or a depth micrometer.i have used these out the back shed in the school so im going to get them and show him.

[KarlB]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/1653.jpg

[Landy Smurf]

and then you have an internal or a depth micrometer.i have used these out the back shed in the school so im going to get them and show him

[p38arover]

i agued the point and stated the 3 different types of micrometers and the teacher and the other students said no there is only one type.not a happy chappy.

You are correct.

Print these pages out and give them to the teacher.

You should get your mark. You were being more exact in your answer even though he, apparently, only wanted "micrometer".

[Fifth Columnist]

Ask your teacher for a 0-25 micrometer and see what he gives you. ;)

[windsock]

You are correct.

Print these pages out and give them to the teacher.

You should get your mark. You were being more exact in your answer even though he, apparently, only wanted "micrometer".

Err, delete the reference to the "yoghurt of an instructor" before showing him though eh? ;):D

[RR5L]

If a world leader of precision measurment calls it an outside micrometer then its good enough for me. Take a copy of this and give it to your teacher.

http://www.mitutoyo.com/pdf/B.pdf

As for what things are called, things always get abbreviated take unbrako screw, its correct name should be a socket head cap screw, but everyone knows what your talking about when you mention the unbrako bolt.

[awabbit6]

yes that was my answer and i got it wrong everyone else just wrote micrometer

You provided extra information. That doesn't make you wrong. I'm a teacher and always give credit to anyone who provides the answer and if I'm not sure about the extra information I always check before making a decision.
(Then I make a note to re-word the question for next year ...)

[p38arover]

As for what things are called, things always get abbreviated take unbrako screw, its correct name should be a socket head cap screw, but everyone knows what your talking about when you mention the unbrako bolt.

I call them socket head cap screws. :angel:

I've never known them to be call Unbrako screws (although I do have two sets of genuine Unbrako allen keys I bought in 1968).

[Chucaro]

The internal-wrenching hexagon drive ( to name it advoiding controversy) it is also know as an Allen head screw and by the old timers SPS screw because SPS was the first manufacturer of them on the early 1900's
The Allen name come after the Allen conpany which start manufacturin the screws circa 1940.s.

Cheers

[midal]

You are definitely right with your answer and you should not be penalised for it with the loss of a mark. Push the issue further and request a change of marks.

[Chucaro]

You are definitely right with your answer and you should not be penalised for it with the loss of a mark. Push the issue further and request a change of marks.

........but be prepared from now on to back up your answers because he will be at your back ;)

[willem]

I call them socket head cap screws. :angel:

I've never known them to be call Unbrako screws (although I do have two sets of genuine Unbrako allen keys I bought in 1968).

I have never known them as anything but Allen screws.

Re the original question, both the terms 'micrometer' and 'outside micrometer' are correct in the same way as describing a car as a 'Land-Rover' and a 'Land-Rover Discovery' are both correct. One just gives more info and is therefore more precise than the other.

Willem

[p38arover]

I have never known them as anything but Allen screws.

Yes, I used to call them that but changed to avoid confusion with Allen head grub screws.

[midal]

........but be prepared from now on to back up your answers because he will be at your back ;)

eeerrrr, yes......unfortunately there is a chance for that to be considered:(

[foz.in.oz]

hey this is a question from my metal exam i got it wrong according to the teacher but the rest of the class got it right.lets see what you say.what is this tool?
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/1647.jpg

There, I thought is was a precision G clamp. :D:D:D

[Hoges]

There, I thought is was a precision G clamp. :D:D:D

yep, for precise measurement of G strings ...on.. err a guitar :angel:

[bobslandies]

Moore & Wright in Sheffield UK and Brown & Sharp in the US have been making micrometers for almost one hundred and fifty years.

They refer now to the type you have illustrated as a "Traditional Outside Micrometer". There are now digital and dual type readouts also. For a look at the whole range (Metric and Imperial) and many various types for different applications you can't go past their catalogues, Here:

Moore & Wright:
http://www.moore-and-wright.com/images/cms/File/Catalogues/MWEX08_Micrometers_31-66.pdf

Brown & Sharp:
Micrometers - Brown & Sharpe*-*Brown & Sharpe (http://brownandsharpe.com/precision-hand-tools/micrometers-5)

You could print out a few of the pages and take them to your teacher.

Bob

[ramblingboy42]

I have found that new engineering tradespersons dont know the correct names of many commonly used nuts bolts and fasteners. Calling socket head cap screws 'allen head" only comes about because an allen key is used to fasten or un fasten it. notice I said fasten not tighten.....they are two different things.....anyway I'm an old scholar nearing the end of my working life, who am I to know? the young tradies dont want to know anything from someone with over 40yrs of trade experience......they already know it all!

[Bigbjorn]

Moore & Wright in Sheffield UK and Brown & Sharp in the US have been making micrometers for almost one hundred and fifty years.

They refer now to the type you have illustrated as a "Traditional Outside Micrometer". There are now digital and dual type readouts also. For a look at the whole range (Metric and Imperial) and many various types for different applications you can't go past their catalogues, Here:

Moore & Wright:
http://www.moore-and-wright.com/images/cms/File/Catalogues/MWEX08_Micrometers_31-66.pdf

Brown & Sharp:
Micrometers - Brown & Sharpe*-*Brown & Sharpe (http://brownandsharpe.com/precision-hand-tools/micrometers-5)

You could print out a few of the pages and take them to your teacher.

Bob

You left out L.S.Starrett and Shardlow of Sheffield. Mind you, one has to be an eccentric millionaire to buy any of those brands today. I can import and sell a wooden boxed set of six micrometers, range from 0-6" or 0-150mm, from China and sell them for less than one x 6" micrometer from any of those brands. Quite acceptable quality and accuracy too.

[Mick_Marsh]

I have found that new engineering tradespersons dont know the correct names of many commonly used nuts bolts and fasteners. Calling socket head cap screws 'allen head" only comes about because an allen key is used to fasten or un fasten it. notice I said fasten not tighten.....they are two different things.....anyway I'm an old scholar nearing the end of my working life, who am I to know? the young tradies dont want to know anything from someone with over 40yrs of trade experience......they already know it all!
My boss from the old place of employment (The Chief Electrical Engineer) used to say "Get them young when they know it all." I assume that as they gain experience, they realise how little they know.

[Bigbjorn]

I have found that new engineering tradespersons dont know the correct names of many commonly used nuts bolts and fasteners. Calling socket head cap screws 'allen head" only comes about because an allen key is used to fasten or un fasten it. notice I said fasten not tighten.....they are two different things.....anyway I'm an old scholar nearing the end of my working life, who am I to know? the young tradies dont want to know anything from someone with over 40yrs of trade experience......they already know it all!

There are socket head bolts as well as socket head cap screws.

Allen are still in existence. Make high quality sockets, accessories, and sets, as well as the hex key range.

[Hoges]

My boss from the old place of employment (The Chief Electrical Engineer) used to say "Get them young when they know it all." I assume that as they gain experience, they realise how little they know.

Actually it was so they could write " it all" down on an envelope for later when they realised.... and so could refer to the back of the envelope for advice...:angel::wasntme:

[Blknight.aus]

beats taking some of the "standardised" exams where the "enabler" doesnt know diddly about the subject matter.

they sit there and do nothing but make sure you dont cheat and follow the instructions.

the last one I took the test took 20 minutes and I was working on the extra credit question.

I went up and asked for clarification of a term (because the wrong term was used in the context of the question) about 10 minutes later someone else (the bloke sitting next to me) went up and asked what I later learnt was the same question.

since I had about 40 minutes up my sleeve to answer the extra credit question I answered it both ways on seperate pages with a single paragraph covering sheet.

"before you read my answer, I believe I should be awarded the Extra credit just for being able to identify the flaw in the question when the assesing staff couldn't. I have included 2 answers 1 assuming you want me to interpret the question as xxx and the other as yyy, please read the header of each page and dispose of the answer sheet that is for the incorrect interpretation"


I got the credit as well as a call into the reviewing board... apparently you're not supposed to know All the technicalities for a course and If you do you are not supposed to show up the flaws in the system.

[Bigbjorn]

When I was a first year apprentice fitter, about the only brands of micrometer available were the ones mentioned above, plus Mauser which were sold by a very few outlets. Over fifty years the prices have come down dramatically in relation to earnings. A 0-1" micrometer cost me two and a bit weeks wages then. A Britool Whitworth 1/2" drive socket set cost three and a bit weeks pay. Nowadays an apprentice could buy a Chinese set of six for less than a weeks pay.

[Chucaro]

When I was a first year apprentice fitter, about the only brands of micrometer available were the ones mentioned above, plus Mauser which were sold by a very few outlets. Over fifty years the prices have come down dramatically in relation to earnings. A 0-1" micrometer cost me two and a bit weeks wages then. A Britool Whitworth 1/2" drive socket set cost three and a bit weeks pay. Nowadays an apprentice could buy a Chinese set of six for less than a weeks pay.

Brian looks like that we are from the same era or close to. I have to go back to circa 1958 :( when I was finishing the course.
I have the choice back then between the Etalon and the Mauser.
Bugger that they cost me a lot of money back then :)

[bobslandies]

You left out L.S.Starrett and Shardlow of Sheffield. Mind you, one has to be an eccentric millionaire to buy any of those brands today. I can import and sell a wooden boxed set of six micrometers, range from 0-6" or 0-150mm, from China and sell them for less than one x 6" micrometer from any of those brands. Quite acceptable quality and accuracy too.

You are quite right about the costs too Brian. Forty years ago I could only afford the Moore & Wrights - Dad had M&W, Brown & Sharp and Starretts - and if I was supervised (by him) I got to use the unusual ones. He's 89 and still thinks that way!
It just happened that I had to look up something "modern" recently that was not in our catalogue collection so knew these links!

Here's Starretts:
OL Micrometers - The L.S. Starrett Company (http://www.starrett.com/pages/1556_micrometers.cfm)

Bob

[Landy Smurf]

hey everyone i have found in the past when you prove a teacher wrong and you ask them to remark question/s they often get really annnoyed and they say oh well you might have got it right but i could probably take some marks off here where i was a bit lenient.i will try and get the exam when i get back to school and put on here im curious to see how you would answer some of them

[KarlB]

G'day schmierer

What you say could well be correct but more importantly, I think you should go back and have a good look at what the question really was and whether you answered the question appropriately. Do you have a copy of the exam paper? Were you given it back with your answers marked? Or were you just told verbally what the answers were? I would be almost certain your teacher knows about the different types of micrometers. Did your teacher say why your more detailed answer was wrong?

If you consider all the above and still feel you have been docked a mark when you shouldn't have then I suggest you talk to you teacher about it but NOT in front of all the other kids in the class. Nor do it while he is on playground duty or the like. Make an appointment to see him at the staff room or what ever is the process at your school. Just so he is not busy and can devote some time to your enquiry. Also you don't want to say the other kids were wrong and you were right, just that you believe your answer was also correct. If this still does not 'work', my advice is thank you teacher for listening to you, then forget the whole episode. Move on. But I would be surprised if you don't get a fair hearing from the teacher.

Cheers and good luck
KarlB

[Landy Smurf]

hey the question was name this tool.we had a brief look through it but he hadnt finished the last section so we could not get it back.i told him about the different type of micrometers and he wouldnt have a bar of it."no there are no inside outside micrometers there are just micrometers.i will wait untill we go through the hole exam next term to bring it up.

[Chucaro]

hey everyone i have found in the past when you prove a teacher wrong and you ask them to remark question/s they often get really annnoyed and they say oh well you might have got it right but i could probably take some marks off here where i was a bit lenient.i will try and get the exam when i get back to school and put on here im curious to see how you would answer some of them

Send him an email and ask on it for a reply in writting. ;)

[Bigbjorn]

This thread prompted me to have a look at my micrometers. I have 19 micrometers, 6 vernier calipers, 4 combination sets. I didn't bother to count the steel rules and calipers various. I counted the 0-12" Starrett inside micrometer set as one. I have lathe tool holders, tool bits in HSS and carbide, & TC inserts, in numbers.


Got me wondering where, when, and how I accumulated all this stuff.

Don't tell the cook! She will insist on a garage sale.

[Landy Smurf]

here is the multiple choice questions
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/487.jpg

[Landy Smurf]

sorry for the quality the scanner was not working so i had to take photos instead

[Landy Smurf]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/486.jpg
if you cant read it just ask and i will tell you what it says

[Landy Smurf]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/484.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/485.jpg

[Landy Smurf]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/477.jpg

[Landy Smurf]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/475.jpg

[Landy Smurf]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/474.jpg

[Landy Smurf]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/473.jpg

[Landy Smurf]

there is more but this will do for now,have ago at them without cheating and see how you go

[steve_35]

I no expert here but i would have thought being a test they would want you to be as accurate as possible

And just calling it a micrometer probably wouldn't be good enough

Not the other way round

[Landy Smurf]

yeah oh and by the way we went through it yesterday at school and he wouldnt let me even prove it even though i didnt get the mark i still got 1st

[Gold_TD5]

Sometines you just have to be satisfied in the knowledge that you know that your right.
Like whats already been said, you should not have been penalised for supplying more info than required.
Personally I would take him out back and show him my perspective:twisted: on how he marks exams but that might not be advantageous to the successful completion of the course.

[Landy Smurf]

as much as it sucks but i am better off just putting it behind me and just get on with the rest of the course

[Bushie]

Life ain't always fair !!

Better get used to it, you will come across plenty of examples throughout your life.

How you deal with them will be what sets you apart from everyone else.

Martyn

[B92 8NW]

Primary school: "I'm happy with an A"
High school: "I'm happy with a B"
Uni: "How many points to pass?"

=P

[Landy Smurf]

yeah i think i might have joined that facebook group

[midal]

Hey you still got 1st:D.....the issue is a PITA and I think you got some shabby treatment but you've got the runs on the board. Don't get discouraged, you know your stuff.

[Landy Smurf]

i was pretty stoked when i topped metal and auto finally some good results

[Rosco]

Primary school: "I'm happy with an A"
High school: "I'm happy with a B"
Uni: "How many points to pass?"

=P


How right to you are cobber ... how right you are. :BigThumb:

[Pierre]

Great to hear of your success in the gradings, but the lesson to learn here is to mention the 'smallies' but make a big fuss about the 'biggies'.

Too much effort is wasted on things that don't matter in the long run. Your experience with this exam question has shown this to you - decidng which ones are the 'biggies'.

Good luck with the further study.

Cheers

Pete

[Bigbjorn]

I do hope the required answers to Q17 was a "screw pitch gauge used for determining the pitch of screw threads". Not a "thread gauge for measuring threads" which are different instruments used for a different purpose. I get fed up with people using the terms wrongly.

[Landy Smurf]

yes you are right,guess what i put

[lardy]

and then you have an internal or a depth micrometer.i have used these out the back shed in the school so im going to get them and show him.

when you do suggest that he alters his marking system in your favour or you might just insert one where the sun don't shine and he can finally get his guaged lol

[Landy Smurf]

i have been there suggesting a few times but he wont have a bar of it as soon as i mentioned it so im just moving on but i know a good present i can get him when i leave school

[Bush65]

Perhaps I'm just being my usual pedantic basket self, but some of the questions and multiple choice answers show a lack of subject knowledge from whoever wrote or reviewed it.

For a few examples:

Q1:
Not very often are pipes tensioned and when it is necessary to do so, none of the tools among the choices are used for the task.

Q2:
The correct answer is not among the choices!

Q4:
The correct answer is not among the choices!

Q9:
The correct answer is not among the choices!

...

[BMKal]

Perhaps I'm just being my usual pedantic basket self, but some of the questions and multiple choice answers show a lack of subject knowledge from whoever wrote or reviewed it.

For a few examples:

Q1:
Not very often are pipes tensioned and when it is necessary to do so, none of the tools among the choices are used for the task.

Q2:
The correct answer is not among the choices!

Q4:
The correct answer is not among the choices!

Q9:
The correct answer is not among the choices!

...

I'd say that the correct answer to Q9 is (D) - but Q10 is a repeat of Q8, so obviously nobody does a lot in the way of "proof reading" when preparing these papers.

Definitely agree with you on Q's 1, 2 & 4 though. :o

Sort of gives a bit of insight into the standard of education these days. ;)

[Landy Smurf]

i remember when i started and i saw Q1 and i went blank so i skipped it and came back to it at the end hoping something might jump out at me but it did not so i just had to eliminate the ones that were the definately wrong

[Bush65]

Regarding Q9, from the choices given, 'D' engineering drawing is what they would want.

The correct answer should be detail drawing. My guess is they have confused technical (a generic term that covers all types of drawings for technical purposes) and engineering.

Engineering drawings are used to convey the information that the design engineer specifies to a design or detail drafter so that they can produce the detail and other drawings for construction.

Engineering drawings are normally only used for structural work. The structural engineers determine member sizes, orientation, fasteners, etc. that go on the engineering drawings. They never have enough information for a workshop.

Edit: there are many other types of technical drawings, for example:
General Arrangement
Assembly
Marking Plan
Schematic Diagrams
Line Diagrams
P & I D (process/piping & instrumentation diagram
etc.

[Bigbjorn]

Speaking from a machinists point of view, not a builders or structural workers, an engineering drawing contains all the information that the machine shop requires to make an item. Views, dimensions, surface finish, material, tolerances, treatment, hardness etc.

[flagg]

I got really excited when I read the subject line.. was expecting a thread about music...

Clearly the answer to every question is progressive death metal. :twisted: :wasntme:

[twitchy]

yep thats a outside micrometer.
i have one in the shed.I also have the inside micrometer.


Don't tell me, it's in the house..............:p

[Bush65]

Speaking from a machinists point of view, not a builders or structural workers, an engineering drawing contains all the information that the machine shop requires to make an item. Views, dimensions, surface finish, material, tolerances, treatment, hardness etc.
What you have described is a detail drawing, not an engineering drawing.

[Bigbjorn]

What you have described is a detail drawing, not an engineering drawing.

I started my apprenticeship in 1957 and our college content was 200 hours of drawing over the four years of college attendance in a five year apprenticeship. I have never heard the term "detail drawing" used in a machine shop, always "engineering drawing". The college courses were called "Technical Drawing" and "Engineering Drawing".

Maybe "detail drawing' is a more modern term?

[Bush65]

The 1st pic below is part of the cover page of Australian Standard 1100 Part 101.

The 2nd is part of page 15 of the same Standard.