2010 Pumas Most Issues Sorted Now ?

[pc3]

Getting closer to deciding on a Purchase and really want a defender but dont want to buy a problem as this will be my first defender. Are the 2010 Pumas mostly sorted now ?

Will this motor handle 18hour trips to the outback etc. I know its probably been covered a million times but it is a LOT of money and every one of my friends keeps harping at me "Buy a hilux, buy a hilux" but I think the look soft and tinny. the Defenders Look Awsome !!

[solmanic]

Looking through all the issues people have had with their new Defenders, I would say they have been 20% design related, 80% quality & component related. In fact, the only design issues were the sump, fuel tank breather and rear A-frame connection on some.

All the other stuff has been poor quality or faulty batches of components. Namely the Wabco vacuum pump, EGR, fuel common rail PRV, engine oil cooling jets (on some), clutch, diffs, axles, transfer cases, gearbox synchros, prop shafts, air conditioning thermal cutout switch, leaks, trim, bodywork mis-alignment and that sort of stuff. Land Rover have upgraded designs on some of these components but this was only to address the few, occasional faults - not major & consistent ones like with the first lot I mentioned.

Several of us with 07 models have had some of these issues but not others. People with newer 08 & 09 models have had some if not all the same quality & components issues too.

So in answer to your original question - yes, Land Rover have sorted the design flaws in early 07 Defenders, but they are still, and always will be prone to any or all of the quality ones. Likewise, just because Land Rover "fix" a design issue, doesn't mean they won't introduce a new one in the process. For example, they relocated the fuel tank breather following complaints about water in fuel but put it in an even worse (IMO) position.

Bottom line is - it's a Defender and they are only really 90% finished when they roll out of the factory. You will always be responsible for the last 10% through the 3 year/100,000km warranty shakedown period.

[ugu80]

Getting closer to deciding on a Purchase and really want a defender but dont want to buy a problem as this will be my first defender. Are the 2010 Pumas mostly sorted now ?

Will this motor handle 18hour trips to the outback etc. I know its probably been covered a million times but it is a LOT of money and every one of my friends keeps harping at me "Buy a hilux, buy a hilux" but I think the look soft and tinny. the Defenders Look Awsome !!


Dear pc3 (are you in the air force?),

The fact is LR will never be up the quality standards of Toyota. However, you can see by this site that defenders instil loyalty and pride of ownership unmatched by the others. They have that indefinable quality, soul. If you want to get to difficult locales, they are more capable off the showroom floor than any other. To get near a defender (puma) you would probably have spend another 10-15 thousand dollars on the Hi-Lux (something to consider, I submit). I have mentioned on another thread, Def/Pumas are like Moto Guzzi motor cycles (had one) in that late model 2nd hand can be better after the new buyer had fixed the production quality problems. As for your mates, they're not buying the car; its your dollars. Listen to advice but the decision is yours. Its what you have to be happy with.

As for the engine, its from a Ford Transit van which have been operating for years and is a proven design (imagine the flogging all those delivery drivers have given it).

Your tray length, I note you are from Victoria, just look up the Vic Roads website. They should have something under Vehicle Standards/Dimensions or similar heading.

p.s. Hi lux owners don't wave to each other.

[Scallops]

I'll second solmanic's comments above - and add this; A Defender is an enthusiast's vehicle. You will likely find more issues with ownership than you might with a Hilux. Nothing that should necessarily deter you, but don't expect to have zero issues with a brand new Fender, no matter what year/model.

You need to decide if you want to drive a vehicle that has character, is fun, is more capable than any Toyota, has outstanding payload specs etc over the "mundane" nature of a Hilux given that the Defender will be quirky. The abundance of dealerships etc might also be a factor, but all of these points need to be considered to make the right decision for you.

I hope you buy a Fender - I'll look forward to giving you a big wave and a smile. Now you won't get that in a Hilux! :)

[pc3]

Thanks folks,

I am now chasing down some prices, Have been talking with Geelong Dealership and am wondering who else might be worth a try to get the most competitive priceing.

I do accept that If I buy one I will be frequenting the Dealership for a while first up to get any issues sorted, and I think there expensive enough that you have a right to do that.

I was eying a second hand one a 2003 130 but my wife seems to think that over the 10 years or so we will have a new one the extra money on a the new Puma is justified along with the 3 year warranty.

Although it will be a little more $$ than a Hilux I do understand I need to spend $$ on new tyres straight up on a hilux along with a suspension upgrade where the Defe will be perfect straight up in that respect for my uses.

Folks I am coming form a 1999 Tray deisel Cruiser Ute (no good now with one child and another on the way, and I need a tray for dogs etc.) which has been amazing and taken me some rough places, I want that run from a defender 130 and I will be a Happy man

I'm not in the airforce though that would be a ripper of a job I imagine !!

My Heart wants a defender.

[solmanic]

...
My Heart wants a defender.

Then it sounds like you're heading in the right direction.

And if your wife is at all involved in this decision, then an 07 onwards Defender is the only way to go. No bleeding ears on the highway, and air con that cools your face instead of your crotch.

Plus when you do have issues, you'll get plenty of support from other owners on this site and anywhere else generally.

BTW. Don't expect much in the way of discount pricing. I would be more particular about which dealer can deliver you a vehicle in the shortest timeframe.

[ugu80]

There's another thread here somewhere about buying from a dealer. The LR dealer in Albury/Wodonga (forget the name) seemed to get a good rap from recent (puma) buyers.


Found it:

Look up 'Buying a New Defender' thread by DukeR. Now on page 3 of the thread index. Should be useful to you.

[Scouse]

with one child and another on the wayYou'll need to sort out child seat restaint points too. Defenders don't have any.

[pc3]

LR Geelong quoted $500 for 2 x child seat restraints is that right or can it be done cheaper ?

[LR D4]

Hi Pc3

I have a 2009 Puma and its been great vehicle no problems so far.

My only advice would be to drive as many demo Pumas as you can, so as to get a feel for what's right and wrong, run your good eye over everything body wise, listen for any weird noises when driving (tell the salesman to be quite) get a feel for the clutch and gearbox. you will notice a vast difference between defenders, I test drove one 2009 that was just totally unacceptable, it felt like it had no syncro left on second and a bad whine in the rear diff.

Once you have driven two or three you should be able to make a choice and IMO you should make it on the best puma and not colour, everything is a compromise.

Good Luck with your decision and don't for get to wave.

LR09WA

[JaYwALk]

Hi PC3,

Hopefully this will "seal the deal" for you! I recently purchased a 'slightly used' (ie 5300ks on the clock) Defender MY10 110 Dual Cab Pick Up from the Land Rover dealership in Geelong and I can only say positive things about the whole experience.

1. they traded in my Hyundai Santa Fe (...yeah I know!) for almost double what other car yards were offering, 2. they chucked on some side protection bars to entice me (...I didn't really need it!!), 3. I arranged financing through them that was better than anything else I could find, 4. all of this was done via email, 5. the vehicle was absolutely mickey mouse when I picked it up, 6. they spent time to ensure that I knew all about the vehicle and that I was happy, 7. they've followed up several times to ensure that I'm still happy, 8. I've since spent a bucket load of money to make it a 'Mega Monster Truckster', 9. I'm happy.....REALLY happy, 10. Refer to point 9!!!

The Hi-Lux or in fact most other fourbies will probably be more comfortable, easier to find aftermarket bits for, and "maybe" more reliable BUT.......I guarantee they ain't gonna be even close to as "enjoyable" as a new Fender!

My wife hates it because of the amount of blokes that stop to check it out! (...maybe she's just upset coz they aren't checkin her out - it's ok....she doesn't read the forum!)

And like ugu80 says....."Hi lux owners don't wave to each other".

Phurken luv it!!!!

[PAT303]

You can't compare a Defender with a Hilux,having had both the Hilux is not in the race,it's not even the same game!!. Pat

[PBob]

Pat 303 is correct - you wouldn't even attempt to compare two vehicles that are not similar.
The Defender tows more and is the only twin cab on the market that will tow 3,500kg (apart from a ford F250 :eek:). It is a much stronger build than a hilux. If you wish to buy a Hilux - thats fine, they are a good vehicle, just don't compare it to a Defender!!

[pc3]

Thanks folks I'm getting a quote from the dealer at Aubrey/Woodonga what I like about them is there prepared to organize a tray etc for me and deliver the car I have requested b bar snorkel long range tank etc Geelong wants to sell with a 28 day permit I have to organise everyother item. The Woodonga dealership seem to be going out of there way to get a sale even wants me to measure my dog cages to get the tray maker set up. I am still waiting for the quote, but woodonga seem to be making it easier for me. I have access to a fleet discount from the company I work for and it seems it won't be too much more than a similar specked out hilux sr I priced up. Savings on the defe after purchase include not needing a tyre orsuspension upgrade which I feel the hilux needs for some of the places I go.

I have also heard new hilux motors have also not been without some issues.

Can a dealer fit up the mud rails straight up to get that extra legroom. I beleive that's one important accessorie that will improve comfort on 17 to 18 hour trips.

My mechanic laughed when I told him I am on the verge of buying a defefender. He said "tiny motor to do a massive job, what will you do if you want to tow, you will blow it up on a long trip, defenders are fine in Europe where distance is not as great as in Australia".

Thing is they look soooo tough!

[Scallops]

My mechanic laughed when I told him I am on the verge of buying a defefender. He said "tiny motor to do a massive job, what will you do if you want to tow, you will blow it up on a long trip, defenders are fine in Europe where distance is not as great as in Australia".

Thing is they look soooo tough!

Maybe you need a new mechanic. The tiny little engine is a Ford transit - found all over the world 24/7 working for a living and doing so reliably and without fuss.

As for "blowing up" on a long trip - what a muppet! You may have some issues at first but that won't be one of them. ;) I've driven mine right around Australia - Gunbarrel, Kimberley Simpson - with 750 kg on board and it went like a train. You'll be able to buy that mechanic a large humble pie with all the money you save in fuel costs too.

Enjoy the Defender - they are such fun machines.

[pc3]

Folks I am convinced !! after talking with a helpful 130 owner from this forum this morning, Im going to buy one. My only concern now is the guilt over buying a new car and wether its the right financial decision etc. with all the money I will be spending. BUT this may be the last true defender and I have loved the look of them for many years and might be the last of them who knows................at least in there current simple rugged form it probably will be.

[ugu80]

[QUOTE=pc3;1222969]Thanks folks,

that over the 10 years or so we will have a new one the extra money on a the new Puma is justified along with the 3 year warranty.



So, you're just going to get it run in then sell it.

[pc3]

Yeh your right.........it could be around a lot longer than that !! I have had my cruiser 10 years and only really ditching that due to Children coming on to the seen.

[JaYwALk]

Good call PC3! As far as the dealer goes....it comes down to whoever is going to give you the best deal and ongoing service. As far as the finances go (I had the same concerns!), as the friendly chap at the local ARB store said "So what. You might be eating baked beans for a while.....but you'll be happy doing it, and more than likely you'll be doing out in the bush sittin next to your new Defender!!!" Nuff said.

[slt]

Are the 2010 Pumas mostly sorted now ?

Well there's certainly one thing they have not sorted, specifically with the 130, and that's driveline vibrations that come in between 80-100km/h. Several 130 owners on here have the problem, and it seems to be worse for vehicles that carry a fair weight, which I presume you will have, given your query about a longer tray. And Land Rover don't want to know about it!

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/94514-vibration-2008-defender-130-a.html

[The ho har's]

Good call pc3 fenders are great trucks and you will love it...

but I prefer my 03 model as it has the opening front flaps so you don't need air conditioning:p;)

Mrs hh:angel:

[larofly]

Hello from The Netherlands;)
I am just back from a trip to North Africa with my Jurgens Oryx trailer 1200 kg for 9000 km no problems here. Just go for it. Def is the best 4x4 [bigsmile]

[spudfan]

We have a 110 200 tdi and until 2008 it was our family car. The Defender 200 tdi had a problem with it's gearbox and ours went at 114,000 miles. We got it repaired and we still have the 200 tdi, 18 years old and still going strong. My timing belt went, 3000 miles after a change but we got over that too. No doubt it was badly done at the change but we put it behind us. 18 years old and no doubt the 110 200 tdi would take us to Africa and back. I do not think there is a perfect car despite what owners of various Japanese models will say.
I know of one Pajero laid up with engine bother which is just too expensive to fix according to the owner.
Another has gotten rid of his Isuzu owing to the repair bills. Parts are horrendously expensive.
One Mercedes owner had so much bother with his car that the dealer said that the remedial work cost more than the car new, and it was still not sorted 100%. Fair enough Mercedes had no bother spending money on the problem. Now he has a Range Rover Sport and no bother apart from getting bushings changed under warranty.
I work for a company that has a fleet of Renault Kangoo light commercial vans leased. All have suffered fuel pump termination within the three year lease period.
Non of the above will ever see 18 years of regular service and be worth keeping on the road unlike my Tdi.
I have only had a few tiny warranty issues with the Puma. The Defender might not be perfect but as a long term investment it is hard to beat.

[ashhhhh]

I'll never buy another new car due to the financial losses involved, I would have thought that went doubly or triply for a 'fender!

Why not get the 09 and save yourself a wad, plus someone else will have fixed all the faults for you. :cool:

[ugu80]

Dear pc3 (are you in the air force?),

The fact is LR will never be up the quality standards of Toyota. However, you can see by this site that defenders instil loyalty and pride of ownership unmatched by the others. They have that indefinable quality, soul. If you want to get to difficult locales, they are more capable off the showroom floor than any other. To get near a defender (puma) you would probably have spend another 10-15 thousand dollars on the Hi-Lux (something to consider, I submit). I have mentioned on another thread, Def/Pumas are like Moto Guzzi motor cycles (had one) in that late model 2nd hand can be better after the new buyer had fixed the production quality problems. As for your mates, they're not buying the car; its your dollars. Listen to advice but the decision is yours. Its what you have to be happy with.

As for the engine, its from a Ford Transit van which have been operating for years and is a proven design (imagine the flogging all those delivery drivers have given it).

Your tray length, I note you are from Victoria, just look up the Vic Roads website. They should have something under Vehicle Standards/Dimensions or similar heading.

p.s. Hi lux owners don't wave to each other.


Great minds think alike ashhhhh.

[dullbird]

Hi PC3,

Hopefully this will "seal the deal" for you! I recently purchased a 'slightly used' (ie 5300ks on the clock) Defender MY10 110 Dual Cab Pick Up from the Land Rover dealership in Geelong and I can only say positive things about the whole experience.

1. they traded in my Hyundai Santa Fe (...yeah I know!) for almost double what other car yards were offering, 2. they chucked on some side protection bars to entice me (...I didn't really need it!!), 3. I arranged financing through them that was better than anything else I could find, 4. all of this was done via email, 5. the vehicle was absolutely mickey mouse when I picked it up, 6. they spent time to ensure that I knew all about the vehicle and that I was happy, 7. they've followed up several times to ensure that I'm still happy, 8. I've since spent a bucket load of money to make it a 'Mega Monster Truckster', 9. I'm happy.....REALLY happy, 10. Refer to point 9!!!

The Hi-Lux or in fact most other fourbies will probably be more comfortable, easier to find aftermarket bits for, and "maybe" more reliable BUT.......I guarantee they ain't gonna be even close to as "enjoyable" as a new Fender!

My wife hates it because of the amount of blokes that stop to check it out! (...maybe she's just upset coz they aren't checkin her out - it's ok....she doesn't read the forum!)

And like ugu80 says.....
"Hi lux owners don't wave to each other".

Phurken luv it!!!!

I thought they did when they needed a tow:D

[Naks]

The TDCi engine is a solid, reliable design and will probably outlast you. It's the rest of the Defender that will fall apart ;)

Also, the fact that the EGR cannot be removed without the engine malfunction light coming & staying on may be an issue in the long run. I have seen pics of the EGR on some 2007 Defenders in the UK, and they look terrible!

In the long term the EGR will have to be taken out, but so far no one has managed to solve the issue of how to prevent the MIL light from staying on:(

[PAT303]

I'll never buy another new car due to the financial losses involved, I would have thought that went doubly or triply for a 'fender!

Why not get the 09 and save yourself a wad, plus someone else will have fixed all the faults for you. :cool:

As far as resale goes the defender would be in the top 5 models.I bought mine new because it was only 7K more than a second hand one. Pat

[kayem8]

i have had enough my 2007 defender has gone on a tow truck for the last time under my ownership. it has been a dream car, a bad dream car. stay away once the three years are up you will be responcible for the repairs and after the 2nd clutch and the 40th repair you have to question a loyalty to the brand. i am very very saddened after driving LR for the last 19 years i am giving it up as enough is enough.

So my advice is consider if you can risk an unreliable ride when off road??

kaye

[one_iota]

Kaye,

Sorry to hear that. Unfortunately there have been a few of the 2007 MY owners who have had very bad experiences. Unfortunately first model year owners are subject to teething problems (not fair I know but a practice also used by Microsoft to iron out the bugs) On that basis the 10 MY is probably a vast improvement in that regard.

As an owner of a 2008 manufacture 09MY (yes a bad clutch replaced and only a couple of other niggles) I'd have to say that the risk I took was worth taking.

I'm glad to say that I'm not frightened to take it anywhere.

I'm tossing up whether to spend money on an extended warranty when the time comes. But I will be keeping mine.

[Loubrey]

All,

I've had the incredible privilage to drive TD5s and Pumas (90s and 110s) extensively at Eastnor Castle in Herefordshire. I've also been involved in hosted events for sales people and clients of other manufacturers at the same facilities. I do not work for Land Rover as a salaried employee of any nature, I purely volunteered due to my associasion with local LRO clubs.

The procedure would be to allow them to take their vehicles around the course (chaperoned by LR Experience guys) and to let them inevitable fail by getting them stuck or stranded. The Defenders would show up and tow them out to the staging area. Next you would load them in vehicles in direct market class comparison. Top of the range Toyotas and Mitsubishis in Rangies, BMWs in Discos etc. As nothing compares to Defenders, they are left alone at that stage. We would take them around, in and over the "impossible" obsticals they failed on in their own brands with the inevitible ooohs and aaahs. Next would be the "cherry on the cake" when we load them in the Defenders and show them what real offroad travel is in factory standard vehicles. They might still not like the look or the utilitarian interior, but they all leave with an understanding of what the ultimate idea behind a Defender is. There is no comparison to a Defender.

Those vehicles work hard and while they don't do the mileage (Kilometers!) of a touring vehicle, the low percentage of problems in the 09 vehicles is definite testament to the improvements from earlier ones.

I just bought my very first "Shiny", a brand new 90 from Southern Land Rover in Perth and the dealer experience was the best "Land Rover Main Dealer" I've encountered anywhere in the world. I won't put the mockers on myself by predicting no problems, there was no chance of ever buying a diferent brand.

Looking forward to continue waving at the rest of you out there!