maxi drive axles

[rangietragic]

just stripped a maxidrive flange and damaged axle on my defender 130.was quoted 450 for good used pair or 495 for new maxidrive flanges with new uprated axles[not maxidrive] from tri rov spares.anyone had experience with this setup'dont know which way to go.:confused:

[slug_burner]

don't know about your tri rover part but maxi drive is no more but hightuff I belive still do the axles

[Bearman]

just stripped a maxidrive flange and damaged axle on my defender 130.was quoted 450 for good used pair or 495 for new maxidrive flanges with new uprated axles[not maxidrive] from tri rov spares.anyone had experience with this setup'dont know which way to go.:confused:

I had this happen to my 110 County some years ago. I have a maxi fitted to the rear Salisbury and stripped the spline on the flange and damaged the axle (it had to be the locker axle with the dog splines on it). I bought a new axle and threw both flanges away and refitted standard county flanges (FRC5806). This way only the flange is the weak spot (relatively speaking) and it shouldn't damage the axle if it does give way. A lot cheaper than replacing axles. So far there is no wear at all. I would stick with the genuine axle. .....Brian

[VladTepes]

don't know about your tri rover part but maxi drive is no more but hightuff I belive still do the axles

Ring MR Automotive in Redcliffe (Brisbane) they do the maxi axles / flanges etc nowadays.

[isuzurover]

Ring MR Automotive in Redcliffe (Brisbane) they do the maxi axles / flanges etc nowadays.

The axles and flanges are made by:
Hi-Tough Engineering Pty Ltd

Address: U3/7 Ryecroft St, Carrara, QLD, 4211

Phone number: (07) 55304123

They are sold by a bunch of places including MR Auto.

MR are apparently starting to produce MD lockers again.

[lardy]

I had this happen to my 110 County some years ago. I have a maxi fitted to the rear Salisbury and stripped the spline on the flange and damaged the axle (it had to be the locker axle with the dog splines on it). I bought a new axle and threw both flanges away and refitted standard county flanges (FRC5806). This way only the flange is the weak spot (relatively speaking) and it shouldn't damage the axle if it does give way. A lot cheaper than replacing axles. So far there is no wear at all. I would stick with the genuine axle. .....Brian

Bearman that is an interesting thought ..landy ones were designed to have sacrificial parts under extreme hardship and the price is right ...should my maxi's ever give out i think i will go Land Rover for what I do they would be fine, and I don't plan to drive it like a ralley car in the rough I have to use it for work on monday lol

[isuzurover]

I had this happen to my 110 County some years ago. I have a maxi fitted to the rear Salisbury and stripped the spline on the flange and damaged the axle (it had to be the locker axle with the dog splines on it). I bought a new axle and threw both flanges away and refitted standard county flanges (FRC5806). This way only the flange is the weak spot (relatively speaking) and it shouldn't damage the axle if it does give way. A lot cheaper than replacing axles. So far there is no wear at all. I would stick with the genuine axle. .....Brian

Interesting - were you running oil lubricated hubs?

OEM 24 spline axles as tested by Ashcroft were found to be no stronger than 10-spliners!!! So the MD axles should be significantly stronger.

[Bush65]

Interesting - were you running oil lubricated hubs?

OEM 24 spline axles as tested by Ashcroft were found to be no stronger than 10-spliners!!! So the MD axles should be significantly stronger.
It is reasonable to expect them to be at least as strong as 4340 axles.

[isuzurover]

It is reasonable to expect them to be at least as strong as 4340 axles.

While we are on the topic of axles John, any guesses on the materials and heat treatment processes used here?


A KAM Aerospace 9403 Nm

B KAM HD 7132 Nm

C Land Rover 4800 Nm

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/members-rides/24625d1271549344-team-rovacraft-disco-front-32s-top-kamaero-mid-kamhd-bot-oemlr-v2.jpg

On the top two they went to so much trouble making a smooth transition either side of the seal area, I am surprised they aren't properly waisted

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/members-rides/24625d1271549344-team-rovacraft-disco-front-32s-top-kamaero-mid-kamhd-bot-oemlr-v2.jpg

[Bush65]

Sorry Ben, I have no idea.

The term aerospace material could be anything. All materials used in aircraft construction need an AMS (aerospace material specification), even plain carbon steels.

[Bearman]

Interesting - were you running oil lubricated hubs?

OEM 24 spline axles as tested by Ashcroft were found to be no stronger than 10-spliners!!! So the MD axles should be significantly stronger.

Oil lubed hubs and MD axles and drive flanges. Replaced with genuine MD axles and rover drive flanges. A lot cheaper and hopefully will be the sacraficial item. So far no play or wear.

[isuzurover]

Sorry Ben, I have no idea.

The term aerospace material could be anything. All materials used in aircraft construction need an AMS (aerospace material specification), even plain carbon steels.

No worries - I figured that was the case, however thought the failure torque figures may be able to narrow it down to a few likely options.

So - we can all call our axles Aerospace then??? :D

I have "AEROSPACE" (AMS-6418) axles front and rear!!!
Ashcroft make "AEROSPACE" (AMS 6414/6415) axles as well!!!
I also have some Longfield CVs made from "AEROSPACE" AMS6257!!!

Hmmmm, but I can't find the same for McNamara EN25 is listed as "aerospace" steel S97 - but I can't find an AMS number???

[rangietragic]

Still not sure which way to go with axles.Welded stripped flange to axle for time being. Other axle has abit of play at flange, suppose its on way out as well.:(

[lardy]

Oil lubed hubs and MD axles and drive flanges. Replaced with genuine MD axles and rover drive flanges. A lot cheaper and hopefully will be the sacraficial item. So far no play or wear.

How long have you run em so far ?
And did you keep to the rangie hub seal or revert that to the standard defender item ??

[uninformed]

No worries - I figured that was the case, however thought the failure torque figures may be able to narrow it down to a few likely options.

So - we can all call our axles Aerospace then??? :D

I have "AEROSPACE" (AMS-6418) axles front and rear!!!
Ashcroft make "AEROSPACE" (AMS 6414/6415) axles as well!!!
I also have some Longfield CVs made from "AEROSPACE" AMS6257!!!

Hmmmm, but I can't find the same for McNamara EN25 is listed as "aerospace" steel S97 - but I can't find an AMS number???

Ben, the Aerospace material that kam uses could be something basic but heat treated to its highest UTS......performs well on a slow whind up torque test....but how will it handle the 1000's of cycles offroad???

only time will tell

[isuzurover]

Ben, the Aerospace material that kam uses could be something basic but heat treated to its highest UTS......performs well on a slow whind up torque test....but how will it handle the 1000's of cycles offroad???

only time will tell

Indeed.

They are the only axle manufacturer I am aware of who won't tell you what steel they use, so I looked elsewhere when buying axles recently.

[rick130]

A Q for the OP, could I hazard a guess and say that you weren't using an 'X' axle set ?

The 'X' axles used a longer spline snout on the drive flange and a corresponding longer splined axle compared to the stock length axle/flange assy and the 'standard' MDE 1724/1725 axles.

Can't recall how much longer they are and the catalogue I have doesn't say, but it's significant.

[Psimpson7]

10mm longer I believe Rick My HI-Tough rear X ones are anyway

[uninformed]

Still not sure which way to go with axles.Welded stripped flange to axle for time being. Other axle has abit of play at flange, suppose its on way out as well.:(

what did you weld them with? what was your welding procedure?

Serg

[rick130]

10mm longer I believe Rick My HI-Tough rear X ones are anyway

Cheers.
All I remember is that when ordering a set years ago Paula told me about them I didn't hesitate, then when I ordered another set for someone else I just automatically ordered the 'X' set.

[rangietragic]

I just bolted drive flange up,tack welded flange to axle,removed the lot and welded around outside and inside with my supercheap 140 amp welder,ran some permatex around both mating faces and bolted it back on.

[uninformed]

let us know how it goes

[rangietragic]

did a bit of moderate track driving a while ago and lost drive again up steep rough hill.had to get out of area with front drive only.:(found drive flange had cracked.weld had held on outside of axle but let go on inside.welded up again by someone who can weld better than i.will replace axles and flanges before cape trip later in year.

[wagoo]

The clean breaks on the KaM shafts indicate to me a stress riser groove at the transition point from a lathe tool on an induction hardened shaft.
At any rate the shafts diameter between the splines are not wasted down enough to be considered well designed replacements.

On Maxidrive axles and driveflanges. I've long held the opinion that they are actually too precisely made to be fitted to later LandRover axle housings.Std factory axles and flanges are as loose as a goose and behave a bit like a universal joint to compensate for a banjo housing that is less than true and square.The Maxidrive units are relatively rigid and straight, so if fitted to an untrue axle housing the splines will frett away and the drive flange bolts will stretch, loosen or break as they do on Discos with one piece axle/ driveflange units.
RangeRover Classic axle housings must have been more precisely built as it is rare for their flange bolts to fail.
Wagoo.

[mark2]

The clean breaks on the KaM shafts indicate to me a stress riser groove at the transition point from a lathe tool on an induction hardened shaft.
At any rate the shafts diameter between the splines are not wasted down enough to be considered well designed replacements.

On Maxidrive axles and driveflanges. I've long held the opinion that they are actually too precisely made to be fitted to later LandRover axle housings.Std factory axles and flanges are as loose as a goose and behave a bit like a universal joint to compensate for a banjo housing that is less than true and square.The Maxidrive units are relatively rigid and straight, so if fitted to an untrue axle housing the splines will frett away and the drive flange bolts will stretch, loosen or break as they do on Discos with one piece axle/ driveflange units.
RangeRover Classic axle housings must have been more precisely built as it is rare for their flange bolts to fail.
Wagoo.

I welded my rear flanges last night (110 County). Unfortunately I got distracted and forgot to preload the splines on the first axle. However there is plenty of weld pentetration and the flanges are square to the axles. Will see how they go. If the flange bolts strip, I'll know what the cause was...

[sclarke]

They break as the axle is almost semi floating. No axle tube us dead straight and with bearing movement the axle and cap move. It's a normal thing. That's why the axle and flange is not one piece. In the case of disco and rangie 10 spline or 24 rears. Look how quick they wear and the back lash.
Just replace them. About $650 for axles and flanges made by hitough
Lots of resellers in Oz. If your in Melb. Call Fred smith

[mark2]

They break as the axle is almost semi floating. No axle tube us dead straight and with bearing movement the axle and cap move. It's a normal thing. That's why the axle and flange is not one piece. In the case of disco and rangie 10 spline or 24 rears. Look how quick they wear and the back lash.
Just replace them. About $650 for axles and flanges made by hitough
Lots of resellers in Oz. If your in Melb. Call Fred smith

Part of the reason for welding was to see how much improvement there'd be without play in the flange spines. It feels heaps better - much more enjoyable to drive.

[rick130]

[snip]
to compensate for a banjo housing that is less than true and square.
[snip]
Wagoo.

aint that the truth.

I was a bit dumb struck the first time I strung my Defender to check the wheel alignment.
The rear end sports more toe out than the front :eek:

[lardy]

Oil lubed hubs and MD axles and drive flanges. Replaced with genuine MD axles and rover drive flanges. A lot cheaper and hopefully will be the sacraficial item. So far no play or wear.

Why didn't you choose to revert back to greased hub bearings?
I ask just because surely the utilisation and reliance on getting the dif juice down the half shaft to the hub must be hap hazard at best, whereas if you were to have a greased bearing and serviced it, is that no sufficent ?

[uninformed]

Why didn't you choose to revert back to greased hub bearings?
I ask just because surely the utilisation and reliance on getting the dif juice down the half shaft to the hub must be hap hazard at best, whereas if you were to have a greased bearing and serviced it, is that no sufficent ?

Hap Hazard......LR did this as stock on their early vehicles. It is the preferred method amongst many users and modifiers for a reason.

[lardy]

Yes old bean, But how come other manufacturer's did not adopt this method?
How can you guarentee dosage to the hub end?
has anyone calculated the pro's and con's regarding this method of lubricating against the standard grease method?
Why did Land Rover move away from the original method (utilising dif oil) and resort to adopting the grease method?
Was there such a difference between older half shafts and axle tubes that warranted the change?
I really would love to get to the bottom of this not just a guessed response but fact, just because it has bugged the living hell out of me for ages.

[wagoo]

Yes old bean, But how come other manufacturer's did not adopt this method?
How can you guarentee dosage to the hub end?
has anyone calculated the pro's and con's regarding this method of lubricating against the standard grease method?
Why did Land Rover move away from the original method (utilising dif oil) and resort to adopting the grease method?
Was there such a difference between older half shafts and axle tubes that warranted the change?
I really would love to get to the bottom of this not just a guessed response but fact, just because it has bugged the living hell out of me for ages.

It was common for earlier oil lubricated halfshafts,driveflanges and wheel bearings tolast 300,000kms or more, as opposed to 60-80,000km for the later grease lubed units.The shorter wheel bearing service life of later units is probably due to metal contamination from the halfshaft and drive flange splines fretting away from lack of lubrication.
Rover went to grease lubrication IMO to address criticism of LandRovers always leaking oil.
Wagoo.

[lardy]

It was common for earlier oil lubricated halfshafts,driveflanges and wheel bearings tolast 300,000kms or more, as opposed to 60-80,000km for the later grease lubed units.The shorter wheel bearing service life of later units is probably due to metal contamination from the halfshaft and drive flange splines fretting away from lack of lubrication.
Rover went to grease lubrication IMO to address criticism of LandRovers always leaking oil.
Wagoo.

Interesting slant I had oil come through the oil seal and bugger my brakes a couple of times ****ed me off let me tell ya!!!
Is it right you do away with the defender oil seal and stick in the range rover classic affair ?

[wagoo]

Yes you must replace the grease seal with the double lipped double spring oil seal, and remove the halfshaft seal from the stub axle.Or you could do as I do and heat a steel rod up with an oxy torch and poke it through the stub axle to damage the seal in a couple of places.
110s with drum rear brakes and Stage1s were fitted with so called oil catcher rings that surrounded the hubs in the seal region to drain any oil leaking past the seals out on the road instead of over the brake shoes.
wagoo.

[rick130]

It was common for earlier oil lubricated halfshafts,driveflanges and wheel bearings tolast 300,000kms or more, as opposed to 60-80,000km for the later grease lubed units.The shorter wheel bearing service life of later units is probably due to metal contamination from the halfshaft and drive flange splines fretting away from lack of lubrication.
Rover went to grease lubrication IMO to address criticism of LandRovers always leaking oil.
Wagoo.

Got it one and something quite a few of us have repeated here over the years.

Even an ex-Land Rover engineer mate of mine admits as much.

[lardy]

Got it one and something quite a few of us have repeated here over the years.

Even an ex-Land Rover engineer mate of mine admits as much.

do tell rick.....no really!!!!

[Bearman]

Why didn't you choose to revert back to greased hub bearings?
I ask just because surely the utilisation and reliance on getting the dif juice down the half shaft to the hub must be hap hazard at best, whereas if you were to have a greased bearing and serviced it, is that no sufficent ?

Not really, every time you turn a corner or go on a bit of an angle oil runs to that side and a lot of it stays in the hub whereas grease tends to be squeezed out and is then not as effective unless repacked regularly. The less servicing the better IMHO. I also run a higher oil level in the diff with one of those "Solid" rear diff covers.

[sclarke]

Not really, every time you turn a corner or go on a bit of an angle oil runs to that side and a lot of it stays in the hub whereas grease tends to be squeezed out and is then not as effective unless repacked regularly. The less servicing the better IMHO. I also run a higher oil level in the diff with one of those "Solid" rear diff covers.

I have one of those solid covers for sale if anyone wants one

[isuzutoo-eh]

I have one of those solid covers for sale if anyone wants one

PM Sent :cool:

[rick130]

Yes old bean, But how come other manufacturer's did not adopt this method?
[snip]


Lots of trucks still use oil lubed hubs ;)

[rangietragic]

latest update on my welded axle.going to work yesterday,turned left when lights changed and BANG no drive AGAIN!:mad:.axle broke cleanly inside of hub where it was welded.NO MORE WELDED AXLES.just ordered set of hy tuff from tri rov spares.see how they go.

[mark2]

latest update on my welded axle.going to work yesterday,turned left when lights changed and BANG no drive AGAIN!:mad:.axle broke cleanly inside of hub where it was welded.NO MORE WELDED AXLES.just ordered set of hy tuff from tri rov spares.see how they go.

From what I can gather, welding the axles on the inside of the flange is a no no.

So far, mine (welded on the outside only ) have held up. Time will tell. Even if they break at the weld (cant see them breaking anywhere else), the splines will still transfer drive.

[rangietragic]

if you still have splines,ok.mine didnt.it was totally relying on the weld.i knew welding around hardened steel was a bad idea, just trying to delay the inevitable.:(