Help wanted on IIA history

[Bunjeel]

Hi, I’m a new member and I hope someone can help me find out more about the history of my SWB Series IIA which I’ve had for 4 years. The chassis no. (on the rear left chassis member) is 2430988 – and that’s all. If there was any more, it’s no longer there due to corrosion and abrasion. It has no VIN or any other numbers, plates or marks anywhere. (It has a 186S red motor so the engine no. is no use). It never had an ignition switch as far as I can tell but it has a big red switch on the side of the central instrument panel which looks original. It’s been rebuilt and modified from the chassis up, maybe in the 1980’s with a Holden motor and Toyota Crown buckets and steering column, wheel and stalks, all new wiring and instrumentation. Apparently done by an engineer in the Kilsyth area (Vic) who is now deceased. It has 2 x 40 litre fuel tanks switchable from under the front seat. It has a single braking system with 11” brakes on the front with Cutlas Powerlock hubs (as on Jeep CJ-3As). First registered in 1971 but it looks like an earlier build than that. Both wipers run off a single motor via a reciprocating rod across the bottom of the windscreen. Hi cut guards but not sure if they’re original. The engine bay is the standard dark green colour. I’d like to know what year it was made and if it’s a civvy version. I’m not fussed about the mods but I’d like to know who did them – he deserves to be remembered for doing a damn good job.

[d@rk51d3]

Welcome to the forums. That's a nice litlle shorty you have there.

Rear x-member indicates a civvy model. Looks good nonetheless.:cool:

[The ho har's]

You need 8 numbers with a letter...you only have 7:(

If the 243 is the begining of the chassis No you own between a 1962- 1971series IIa if you can see a letter at the end that will norrow it down a bit more;)

High cut guards are ex-mil...photo would be good of the dash as the models changed a lot in a few years...


Mrs hh:angel:

[Bunjeel]

Thanks for your help so far. The last bit of the chassis no. is completely gone. I've attached a photo of the interior - note the Toyota steering wheel and seats. I added the Shintoa heater and the old big red 'go' switch is hidden behind the aluminum panel on the right of the dash. Apparently the engineer who did the conversion was named George and lived in Bayswater (Vic). Hoping somebody might know something....



You need 8 numbers with a letter...you only have 7:(

If the 243 is the begining of the chassis No you own between a 1962- 1971series IIa if you can see a letter at the end that will norrow it down a bit more;)

High cut guards are ex-mil...photo would be good of the dash as the models changed a lot in a few years...


Mrs hh:angel:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The 2430 is correct for an SIIa 88 of about 1964-66 but without the last digit and suffix letter it's impossible to tell.

What chassis number (VIN) is shown on the rego papers?

Have you tried lightly linishing the chassis number surface with a flat file, it may remove later corrosion and reveal the remnants of the missing digits!

[UncleHo]

G'day Bunjeel :)

Iwould put that vehicle at 1960, as the first 2a 88's with the 2.25 motor RHD CKD units started at 2430 0001A and it would yours as the 988? th vehicle built in that chassis suffix number :) probably built in late 59 but as a 1960 model.

The windscreen frame tells me that it was originally seperate wipers and has been converted to cable drive possibly from a 67 onwards 2a.with similar windscreen vent levers.

cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

G'day Bunjeel :)

Iwould put that vehicle at 1960, as the first 2a 88's with the 2.25 motor RHD CKD units started at 2430 0001A and it would yours as the 988? <snip>Uncle Ho

I would like to agree with you, unfortunately my books don't agree with your information.

In series II 88" models the prefix was 143 and the fourth digit indicated the year, making a 1960 88" "1430"

The series IIa were released in 1962 and only then did the first digit in the prefix change from "1" to "2" which makes a vehicle commencing with "243" a series IIa with a delivery date of 1962 or later.

In NSW the 24309XXX Z range of numbers were dispatched in May and June 1966

[UncleHo]

G'day Lotz-A-Landies :)

I am only working from the Master Parts book p/n 605957 Dec 1968, and the list from Fast Moving and Collision Parts RTC-9300 1973 and they list 2430 0001A as 88 series 2a fitted with 2.25 motor, and going by the previous years listings where the 4th digit denoted the year model 8=58 9=59 0=60 1=61, I would have taken it to be a RHD CKD Series 2a 88 with 2.25 motor of the 1960 year model

cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

G'day Lotz-A-Landies :)

I am only working from the Master Parts book p/n 605957 Dec 1968, and the list from Fast Moving and Collision Parts RTC-9300 1973 and they list 2430 0001A as 88 series 2a fitted with 2.25 motor, and going by the previous years listings where the 4th digit denoted the year model 8=58 9=59 0=60 1=61, I would have taken it to be a RHD CKD Series 2a 88 with 2.25 motor of the 1960 year model

cheersWell someone or something is in error.

According to the NSW Grenville Motors Allocations Books: 1960 88" petrol Land Rovers had "143 0 XXXXX" series numbers. The last 1959 model ("143 9 01798") was sold on 24th November 1959.
The first 1961 model "143 1 00001" was delivered to the Snowy Mountains Hydro-Electricity Commission on the 6th January 1961.
The first "243" prefix vehicle ("2430 0001A") was sold to the NSW Government Stores, for the Forestry Commission, with NSW Rego COS-132 on the 12th February 1962

[UncleHo]

G'day Lotz-A-Landies :)

Hi Diana, well it goes to show that there is a time gap in what was the english printed books (for world use) and the sequence of the Australian CKD vehicles, with the Series 2's still into the showrooms/sales well into 1961,and the 2a's becoming available when the 2's dried up, this is similar to the release dates for the Range Rover in Aust,1971(UK-June 1970) and the Disco 1991, when the Disco was on sale in UK in 1989.


cheers

[Lotz-A-Landies]

G'day Lotz-A-Landies :)

Hi Diana, well it goes to show that there is a time gap in what was the english printed books (for world use) and the sequence of the Australian CKD vehicles, with the Series 2's still into the showrooms/sales well into 1961,and the 2a's becoming available when the 2's dried up, this is similar to the release dates for the Range Rover in Aust,1971(UK-June 1970) and the Disco 1991, when the Disco was on sale in UK in 1989.

cheersActually I believe its error in the Master Parts Catalogue.

There are too many sources indicating that the SIIa didn't start until the 1962 production year.

From Grenville Motors allocations books we have 1961 SII models still available in the beginning of 1962.

When you use the Classic Land Rovers VIN calculator (http://www.classiclandrovers.no/?page=documents%2Fvinlookup&vin=24300001A&engine=&gbox=&axle=) (which I believe is more accurate than CalVIN) you get it reporting SII models correct in 1961 and even giving a production number. The vehicle below is the last 1961 model in the Grenville books.
Chassis / VIN number : 143102230
Land Rover
Land Rover series 2 88"
Model 143 Series 2 88"
Body style Basic
Engine type 2.25l (2286cc) petrol
Market, Steering (3) CKD (Export), RHD
Model year 1 1961
Serial Number 02230 Number 2230 of 2302 numbered from 1 to 2302

Then we punch in the Snowy Mountains SIIa 88 mentioned previously and we get model year listed as 1962-1971. Even the suffix a is listed as October 1961 the start of the 1962 production year.
Chassis / VIN number : 24300001A
Land Rover
Land Rover series 2A 88"
Model 243 Series 2A 88"
Model year 1962-1971
Body style Basic
Engine type 2.25l (2286cc) petrol
Market, Steering (3) CKD (Export), RHD
Serial Number 00001 Number 1
Suffix A 1st revision of this model. Suffix used from introduction in October 1961 to March 1963.

When you replace the export market CKD "3" with the home market "1" you get the same model year information, except this time it lists the number produced.

Chassis / VIN number : 24100001a
Land Rover
Land Rover series 2A 88"
Model 241 Series 2A 88"
Model year 1962-1971
Body style Basic
Engine type 2.25l (2286cc) petrol
Market, Steering (1) Home market, RHD
Serial Number 00001 Number 1 of 42494 numbered from 1 to 42494
Suffix A 1st revision of this model. Suffix used from introduction in October 1961 to March 1963.

Even CalVIN (http://www.clifton.nl/) agrees with 1962

[JDNSW]

Just to put my oar in, my understanding is that the 2a (243) numbers did not use a fourth number to specify the year. This is confirmed by the numbers listed in the front of the workshop manual, and also Taylor confirms this as a basic change in the numbering system for Rover cars as well as the Landrover.

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Just to put my oar in, my understanding is that the 2a (243) numbers did not use a fourth number to specify the year.
<snip>Absolutely John.

The Series IIA commenced with a completely new set of number sequences of eight digits and a suffix letter without a year indicator as opposed to the mid series I and series II that had sequences with nine digits, including a year indicator but no suffix letter. What is more important is that this change occurred for the 1962 production year and not before.

Regarding the time gap between the UK and Australia in the Range Rover (mentioned a few posts above) there is no gap between the launch of Range Rover at the Paris Motor show in June 1970 and the production models being available in Australia. The vehicle/s on display in Paris were actually full trim pre-production models out of a hand built batch of 20 such pre-pros, with actual production models ramping up afterwards. As we know the Rover Co. Production year commences with a change over in August, so the first "production" Range Rovers were actually 1971 models, the same year model as the few we got out here.

[Bunjeel]

Thanks to everyone for all this interesting info. The VIN on the rego papers is "2430988". I carefully cleaned up the stamped area (above the rear left spring hanger) with a wire brush and turps but there is just nothing there. It all seems very lightly stamped and even the "988" is only just visible with the area wet, a strong edge light and a magnifying glass. I guess I'll be happy with a 1964-66 date. Thanks again for all your assistance.



The 2430 is correct for an SIIa 88 of about 1964-66 but without the last digit and suffix letter it's impossible to tell.

What chassis number (VIN) is shown on the rego papers?

Have you tried lightly linishing the chassis number surface with a flat file, it may remove later corrosion and reveal the remnants of the missing digits!

[JDNSW]

Thanks to everyone for all this interesting info. The VIN on the rego papers is "2430988". I carefully cleaned up the stamped area (above the rear left spring hanger) with a wire brush and turps but there is just nothing there. It all seems very lightly stamped and even the "988" is only just visible with the area wet, a strong edge light and a magnifying glass. I guess I'll be happy with a 1964-66 date. Thanks again for all your assistance.


You could try polishing the area to a mirror finish of bright metal, and then etching it, is likely to show up the distortion of iron crystals where it was stamped. But I doubt it is worth the effort!

John

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Thanks to everyone for all this interesting info. The VIN on the rego papers is "2430988". I carefully cleaned up the stamped area (above the rear left spring hanger) with a wire brush and turps but there is just nothing there. It all seems very lightly stamped and even the "988" is only just visible with the area wet, a strong edge light and a magnifying glass. I guess I'll be happy with a 1964-66 date. Thanks again for all your assistance.My first estimation of the model year 1964-66 was only a guestimate without checking any of my available data sources.

After my research I would be very confident in the second date I gave, i.e. that your vehicle was first sold between May and July 1966 with a probable build date in April 1966.

More than that I am 100% confident that your vehicle is a "C" suffix giving you an original chassis number of: 2430988*C. (Where the * = the unknown digit.)

Further to that I am 100% confident that the original 2 1/4 litre engine had either a "G" or "H" suffix (Range: #25235800G - 25241200H) yes I know that's 5,400 engines but remember it's a worldwide market, the engines had their own sequence and at that time in Australia were being fitted to both 88" and 109" coming out of PMC Enfield.

Diana

If you are really keen you can get one of these:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

available from http://www.scottsoldautorubber.com.au (http://www.scottsoldautorubber.com.au/Classic%20Repro-%20Land%20Rover.htm) and stamp your 2430988*C number