Bull Bars/Nudge Bars for D4s

[Watpub]

Hi all, I'd just like to canvass the general opinion about the merits (or otherwise) of bull bars and nudge bars for the D4.

I've just spoken to ARB and they say they're going to release bull bars for the D4 in about a month. They aren't going to do a nudge bar. I'd imagine that TJM are probably doing something similar. Knowing ARB a decent bull bar will probably cost around two grand fitted - so some consideration needs to be given to this investment.

I do a fair bit of country driving and a lot of it at dusk and in the dark. I've fitted all my previous Toyotas with bull bars and driving lights (usually spotties). The bars have also been used for the CB antenna. I also had a winch on the previous one but I don't think I'll be going down this path this time. I must admit I've only hit a roo once in 15 years (more of a side swipe than a front on). But the bull bars have provided peace of mind just in case something jumped out of the dark. I also found that bull bars commanded more respect from other drivers in city traffic - like those idoits who insist on cutting in at the last moment as you're cruising up to a red light!

So what do people think? Is a bull bar a worthy accessory for a D4 or simply overkill? Are driving lights necessary or do the standard headlights and highbeam suffice? (I haven't taken delivery of my D4 yet so I haven't had a chance to drive one at night).

All opinions most welcome. Thanks, Ron

[tedndoi]

Ron,
That's good news as I'm also waiting on ARB to come up with a winch bar. As far whether or not it's a necessary expense I prefer not to give Murphy's law the chance of testing it out on our D4. We do a considerable amount of rural driving in fact I've backed off on a couple of tricky crossings during the time we've had our D4 simple because w/o the presence of the winch I wanted to avoid the risk of becoming hung-up especially as it's usual somewhere on the back blocks of our property and I'm usually on my own. The other reason is a bar will reduce the damage of scratches from trees and shrubs.

[Graeme]

I have a bar on order because I don't want to run the risk of having the vehicle off the road whilst it gets repaired from a roo strike. Sometimes there are roos on my property. I've hit a couple of roos over the years and the damage without a bar was quite extensive on one occasion. Its a once-only $2K insurance policy.

[DiscoWeb]

Watpub,

I do not have a bull bar or nudge bar on my D3 as I do not do a lot of country driving do not currently see the need for one. If and when I get the opportunity to do a big trip then I would seriously consider one, as being stranded somewhere remote waiting for LR part due to a roo strike or the like would seriously stuff a holiday.

I might also consider it if I was to do a lot more off road work but to date I have not seen any damage to the front end and I am not sure if a bar would have any great impact on entry angles etc so seems a lot of weight to carry around for little to no reason, but they do look good.

With regard to the requirement for extra lighting, the D3 Bi Xenon lights are very very good compared to anything else I have had. High beams throw an excellent beam width and distance.

The one long road trip I have done was from Sydney to Adelaide and then back via the great ocean road. We were late arriving to one our stops in SA, and did about 2 - 3 hrs at night and I felt very confident driving with the high beams and did not really want for more light.

Again if I was a regular country traveler with plenty of night driving then again probably something I would consider as it is hard to have too much light on some of those country road.

But the standard lights are very good IMHO.

Hope this helps a little but sure other will be better informed, enjoy the D4 when it arrives.

George

[Tombie]

I do a fair bit of country driving and a lot of it at dusk and in the dark. I've fitted all my previous Toyotas with bull bars and driving lights (usually spotties). The bars have also been used for the CB antenna. I also had a winch on the previous one but I don't think I'll be going down this path this time. I must admit I've only hit a roo once in 15 years (more of a side swipe than a front on). But the bull bars have provided peace of mind just in case something jumped out of the dark. I also found that bull bars commanded more respect from other drivers in city traffic - like those idoits who insist on cutting in at the last moment as you're cruising up to a red light!

So what do people think? Is a bull bar a worthy accessory for a D4 or simply overkill? Are driving lights necessary or do the standard headlights and highbeam suffice? (I haven't taken delivery of my D4 yet so I haven't had a chance to drive one at night).

All opinions most welcome. Thanks, Ron

Ron

I've done thousands of hours of country driving and up until 6 years ago never had a Roo strike.

Since then, 6 years ago, I hit 3 kangaroos in the space of 3 hours...

Recently, I've cleaned up around 14 or so, and the last one hit hard enough to help the radiator break its mount, cracking the tank and killing the engine.

Would I consider it a necessity - absolutely - based on your usage... (And mine)
Are headlights alone up to scratch for high speed night driving outside suburbia.. No Way :o

Yes, its a significant investment, but the protection, piece of mind, convenience of the extra up front is more than worth the cost.

Simon, a friend of mine, hit a Roo or 2 in his D3, replacement lights, bumper, bonnet etc.. cost well over the $5k mark if I remember rightly.
Then after it was fixed he copped a hit in the front and had to repair again!
Needless to say, he has an ARB on it now :cool:

[Disco4SE]

Hey Graeme, what bar did you go for?

[Graeme]

ARB. It looks OK on the D3 so hope their D4 one is also OK.

[rmp]

The ARB D4 bar is on the way. No date yet though.

There are some things in the 4WD world you need to experience just the once.

One is watching a wire winch rope break under load, another is sending a Skippy on his way at high speed.

Product choices and mindsets tend to be set after such experiences.

[DiscoSaffa]

Definately worth the investment I reckon, especially with your usage. I also reckon the D3 looks great with an ARB bar, and the D4 would be even better.

I had one fitted to my D3 late last year, at the same time had a pair of spots fitted. The D3 highbeams give a really good spread, and the spots just give that bit of extra distance.

All up in December last year the ARB bar, with IPF spots came to $2700, at ARB in Artarmon.

[jonesfam]

Got to agree with Discosaffa.
And it's not just the roo's, pigs, cattle, horses, not to mention dills in car parks.
If a bull bar means you hit it & can still drive home only once it is worth the money.
After countless roo's, 2 cows and 1 horse over the years (you got to love living out here) I would fit 2 bull bars if I could figure out how.
BTW every time I could drive home, the horse did a lot of damage & I had no lights but still got home.
Jonesfam

[CaverD3]

I find if you are using overgrown tracks ( making a new one) you can just push over the new growth witha bull bar. :D

[Jesse B]

I wouldn't hesitate - having done almost 15k now in my D4 without a bar I cannot wait for ARB to start shipping them. I feel kinda naked without one, and find myself on edge as soon as it gets dark, "roo country" or not. I've hit a few (and at least one emu, and more than one sheep) over the years - I reckon its just not worth the stress of going without. Same with decent driving lights - no such thing as too much light!

Bummed out tho to have gone into my ARB dealer today to be told that my "late April" supply was now mid-to-late May... :(

[ADMIRAL]

I wouldn't hesitate - having done almost 15k now in my D4 without a bar I cannot wait for ARB to start shipping them. I feel kinda naked without one, and find myself on edge as soon as it gets dark, "roo country" or not. I've hit a few (and at least one emu, and more than one sheep) over the years - I reckon its just not worth the stress of going without. Same with decent driving lights - no such thing as too much light!

Bummed out tho to have gone into my ARB dealer today to be told that my "late April" supply was now mid-to-late May... :(
I don't think they even know ! I was told it could be up to 12 months last week. I cannot believe there is that much difference to the D3. A similar situation with the Safari snorkel.
I have the same feeling driving in the country at dusk. Last weekend I passed a bloody huge red boomer, 20 ft off the road. Fortunately he just looked at me, and did not try bolting for home. I also agree on the lights. I am singularly unimpressed with the Xenon/Halogen combination on the D4. The base Holdens and Falcons have more effective lights. Can't wait to get the spots up front. ( on something )

[Graeme]

I am singularly unimpressed with the Xenon/Halogen combination on the D4. ....Can't wait to get the spots up front.
As soon as my halogens stop lighting-up the possums, I'll be converting them to HID to go with my already-mounted HID-converted driving lights.

[Watpub]

I don't think they even know ! I was told it could be up to 12 months last week.
Admiral, I actually by-passed the dealers and went straight to ARB's head office. The guy there informed me that it would be "next month" - which I presume to mean May. I'm a bit peeved that they could bring out a bull bar for the new Prado earlier than the D4 - the D4's been on the market longer than the Prado has.
Regards, Ron

[CaverD3]

As soon as my halogens stop lighting-up the possums, I'll be converting them to HID to go with my already-mounted HID-converted driving lights.

The problem with that is that HIDs take too long to light up and you are unable to flash your lights.

[Tombie]

The problem with that is that HIDs take too long to light up and you are unable to flash your lights.

Not true!

Good quality HID kits with electronic balast will 'flash'
the function is built in.

Mine flash a strong bright pulse and the cool and begin to brighten if left held on.

But I can flash flash flash at full intensity. :angel:

[Watpub]

Not true!

Good quality HID kits with electronic balast will 'flash'
the function is built in.

:angel:
Hi Tombie2, any recommendations for "good quality HID" kits??

Ron

[DiscoSaffa]

BTW every time I could drive home, the horse did a lot of damage & I had no lights but still got home.

This for me is the key. Sure, saving expensive damage to the front end, headlights etc is a good enough reason to fit a bar, the real reason for me is, after a strike, not being stranded in the middle of roo country by a busted radiator etc......

[Graeme]

The problem with that is that HIDs take too long to light up and you are unable to flash your lights.
Even my cheap HID lights give a startup flash and if that's not enough, just wait a few seconds. I'd very much prefer to have better lights instead if they were mutually exclusive anyway.

[ADMIRAL]

Not true!

Good quality HID kits with electronic balast will 'flash'
the function is built in.

Mine flash a strong bright pulse and the cool and begin to brighten if left held on.

But I can flash flash flash at full intensity. :angel:
Are you using a conversion kit ? Availability ?

[ADMIRAL]

Admiral, I actually by-passed the dealers and went straight to ARB's head office. The guy there informed me that it would be "next month" - which I presume to mean May. I'm a bit peeved that they could bring out a bull bar for the new Prado earlier than the D4 - the D4's been on the market longer than the Prado has.
Regards, Ron
I will try again based on that !

[Watpub]

Hi all,

Just an update on ARB's bull bar for the D4... I thought I'd also try emailing them to see if I could get an official date in writing. Here is the response I received:

"Hi Ron
At the moment the bar for the discovery 4 is still in its design stage, our engineers here at kilsyth work by the principle that its better to take your time and have a better product than to rush and make compromises. They also don’t like to give any sort of timeline as to when it will be ready which does make it hard for us to give our customers a estimate o when the bar will be ready. As to the price it will not be known till the bar has gone through production and can be assesed to how much it will cost. As a rough estimate the bar for the discovery 3 costs $2099.
If you have any questions just give me a call."

I took up the offer and called them. The guy was reluctant to commit to a date. When I told him I was taking delivery of my vehicle in late June he thought that it was unlikely that the bar would be ready by then, and that we wouldn't probably see it until later in the year. This contradicts what I was told when I rang last week.

He also told me that they tried to fit a D3 bar to a D4 and it wouldn't work. I didn't press him as to why - presumably the mounting points have changed???

I also sent an email request to TJM earlier this week and thus far have heard diddly-squat!:mad:

Ron

[Jesse B]

Yikes!! That is horrible news! If it's "better to take your time and have a better product" how come the new Prado bar appeared so quickly? Makes me glad I haven't got one, considering what a rush it must have been... But that's probably just sour grapes too. :(

[Watpub]

Yikes!! That is horrible news! If it's "better to take your time and have a better product" how come the new Prado bar appeared so quickly? Makes me glad I haven't got one, considering what a rush it must have been... But that's probably just sour grapes too. :(

Given all of the safety recalls by Toyota of late maybe ARB figured it didn't matter if the bar wasn't up to par for the Prado!:p. Ooh, bitchy...

Truth be known it was probably a direct fit from the previous model.

[ADMIRAL]

This isn't getting any better. The first to market is going to make a killing! I don't see any other options either. There certainly won't be anything coming out of Europe. We really have this market cornered in Oz.

[GeorgeK]

Hi Guys,

I suspect that the reason that 'they' produced a Prado bar more quickly is that they can sell many more Prado bars. Economies of scale I guess.

I too am waiting for a D4 bar. I have an D4 HSE on order (ETA June) with the optional surround camera system. I suspect that the new bar when it eventually arrives will be no good for the front cameras and sensors. I think I'll miss out anyway.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to where to mount a UHF aerial in the absence of a bull bar?

Cheers

George

[rmp]

This isn't getting any better. The first to market is going to make a killing! I don't see any other options either. There certainly won't be anything coming out of Europe. We really have this market cornered in Oz.

Not really because the market isn't all that big. The Prado 150 market is much larger.

[chuck]

George,

I used a glass mount antenna from Time Plus communication in Brunswick.

I am happy with its performance.

Regards

Chuck

[tedndoi]

George,

If you go the expense of adding a Kaymar rear wheel carrier as I've done you can have Kaymar include a set of antenna brackets. rgds John S


Hi Guys,

I suspect that the reason that 'they' produced a Prado bar more quickly is that they can sell many more Prado bars. Economies of scale I guess.

I too am waiting for a D4 bar. I have an D4 HSE on order (ETA June) with the optional surround camera system. I suspect that the new bar when it eventually arrives will be no good for the front cameras and sensors. I think I'll miss out anyway.

Does anyone have a suggestion as to where to mount a UHF aerial in the absence of a bull bar?

Cheers

George

[Watpub]

If you go the expense of adding a Kaymar rear wheel carrier as I've done you can have Kaymar include a set of antenna brackets.

I had a Kaymar rear wheel carrier on my LandCruiser and to be honest began to feel it was a pain in the proverbial if you have to regularly get to the back of the vehicle. They are bloody fantastic if you need to get an extra wheel on the back, or as a step, or for carrying jerry cans, or even if you are worried about shunts from the rear.

But on my LandCruiser I had to bend down and undo the spring latch under the wheel then swing the wheel out of the way before I could open the rear door/window. It doesn't sound like much, but now with my temporary car (an old Pajero) before the D4 arrives, I really feel the difference not having this hassle makes. Unless you really need the Kaymar unit for the sake of the CB antenna I'd go with the windscreen option.

And thanks for the heads up George. Like you my HSE also has the surround camera. I hadn't even thought about the bull bar issue - perhaps ARB is designing it with the camera in mind and that's what's taking all the time!:p Not likely...

Regards, Ron

[CaverD3]

Maybe Kaymar could make a front bar as well? :D

[gps-au]

Maybe Kaymar could make a front bar as well? :D

I would forever be grateful to them,

Considering the fit of the ARB on a D3 and the Kaymar fit at the other end...

[Watpub]

Hi Guys,

I have an D4 HSE on order (ETA June) with the optional surround camera system. I suspect that the new bar when it eventually arrives will be no good for the front cameras and sensors. I think I'll miss out anyway.

George

Hi George,

The Prado 150 Kakadu also has a surround camera and sensor setup.

Speaking with ARB it appears that they have designed two bars for the Prado 150 - one for vehicles with cameras and sensors and one for those without.

Apparently for sensor-fitted vehicles the sensors are removed from the vehicle and installed into the bar. The front camera however is another issue. With the Prado the front camera is mounted in the grille. As long as driving lights and a winch box are not fitted to the bar there is no issue with the camera system. If driving lights are fitted there is a shadow projected onto the camera, while winch boxes tend to obscure the camera completely. The guy I spoke with couldn't advise me what the engineers are up to with the D4 - he said they've been "tight lipped".

Maybe my flippant remark in an earlier post about the engineers trying to design a bar for D4's with cameras wasn't that silly.

Regards,

Ron

[GeorgeK]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your comments. I have the following to add:

WRT the UHF aerial. I know this is a small point but I currently drive an NP Pajero. My UHF aerial resides on the front bull bar and it acts as a vehicle height indicator in car parks. My Paj with the aerial is a smidge over 2m high and therefore despite what the height indicators of car parks display if my aerial strikes a pipe or some-such then I don't go in or reverse out. I would like to retain this functionality if possible.

Another issue is even if ARB do come up with sensor and camera fitting bull bar would they have the expertise to move the cameras? There are two of them at about number plate height.

I would like to fit a long range fuel tank and therefore the spare wheel needs to come out from under and onto the back. I've heard Kaymar are the best (maybe the only???) spare wheel carrier fabricator. The D4 HSE has a rear camera and sensors too. I have seen promo pics of the Kaymar rear wheel carrier fitted with rear sensors so that aspect should be OK. Does anyone have any thoughts about the efficiency of the rear camera with a spare wheel fitted?

I have been hassling ARB since Feb for a hint about bull bars. Maybe I'll hassle some more.

Cheers and sorry for the longish post.

George

[ADMIRAL]

Not really because the market isn't all that big. The Prado 150 market is much larger.

To clarify- I meant we have a good proportion of bullbar manufacturers in OZ, and if they cannot come to the party for us, we won't be getting much help from anyone else.

[ADMIRAL]

Hi Guys,

Thanks for your comments. I have the following to add:

WRT the UHF aerial. I know this is a small point but I currently drive an NP Pajero. My UHF aerial resides on the front bull bar and it acts as a vehicle height indicator in car parks. My Paj with the aerial is a smidge over 2m high and therefore despite what the height indicators of car parks display if my aerial strikes a pipe or some-such then I don't go in or reverse out. I would like to retain this functionality if possible.

Another issue is even if ARB do come up with sensor and camera fitting bull bar would they have the expertise to move the cameras? There are two of them at about number plate height.

I would like to fit a long range fuel tank and therefore the spare wheel needs to come out from under and onto the back. I've heard Kaymar are the best (maybe the only???) spare wheel carrier fabricator. The D4 HSE has a rear camera and sensors too. I have seen promo pics of the Kaymar rear wheel carrier fitted with rear sensors so that aspect should be OK. Does anyone have any thoughts about the efficiency of the rear camera with a spare wheel fitted?

I have been hassling ARB since Feb for a hint about bull bars. Maybe I'll hassle some more.

Cheers and sorry for the longish post.

George
Check out the FAQ's in the D3/D4 channel. There are quite a few options for rear wheel carriers apart from Kaymar, and as they mount through the bumper ( not replace it ) there is potentially less or no interference to sensors or cameras.

[Watpub]

Hi all,

For what it's worth I received a copy of ARB's Autumn newsletter (electronically) where they devote a fair bit of space to the Prado 150 bull bar and their overall bull bar development process.

Here's the link ARB 4x4 Accessories » News » Newsletters (http://www.arb.com.au/news/newsletters/au/)

If you look closely at the Prado bull bar in the pictures you can make out 4 parking sensors on the front. As far as cameras and frontal collision systems go this is what they say in the newsletter:

"The most appropriate ARB bar for your Prado will
depend on your specific vehicle model and its additional
extras, such as winch provision, the optional centre-grill located
camera, HID lights and anti collision radar. These
factors had to be taken into account during engineering,
resulting in five different designs for this vehicle."

They don't really say how they get around the problem(s). Towards the back of the sales-e-zine there's a response to a reader's letter which outlines how they go about developing a bar. I found it an interesting read.

Hope this is of use.

Ron