my thoughts on Old Man Emu Suspension

[lambrover]

I have seen alot of threads asking about suspension, so I thought I would share what I have seen and done.

Well ARB should be ashamed for selling there 2 inch kits, bloody hopeless.
When I bought my county it had OME fitted and the shocks only had 20mm down travel left in them, My friend has a new puma and we looked into fitting OME 2inch kit, we got all the measurments and I think it is the most rediculas kit you could buy. We looked at TJM shocks and they make a long travel shock that is much better suited to a 2 inch lift. These coments and observations are only to do with there shocks not the coils.

I currently have custom shock towers to suit my needs, and have Rancho adjustable shocks, the fronts work very well and happy with but the rears even though adjustable aren't valved enough, the rear feels abit floaty not controled enough. I am thinking of fitting adjustable Fox shocks or some Tough Dogs, My friend has a 7 inch lifted Patrol and runs adjustable tough dogs and they work very well.

By converting to eye to eye conections there are more shocks available and you can maximize your travel.

To work out your shock lenghts needed, measure your static height (sitting on flat even ground) I use the the point where the shocks mount too, (for pin/pin connection I measure between the rubber mounts on the shock, eye/eye I measure between the center lines of the eyes) you must all ways use the same measuring points ie: 500mm Now measure your bumpstop clearance ie: 70mm and add 20mm for safety now you have 90mm, subtract that from the above static length and you now have your optimum minimum compressed lenght ie: 410mm. To work out extended lenght either go for the longest shock you can get that works with your compressed lenght. or you can remove your sway bar and shock and flex it up and measure the the distance between the shock mounts.

I hope this helps you guys out who are abit more adventurous and keen to build up there suspension rather than buying of the shelf. I have added photos of the suspension when I bought my car and how it is now.

[Squatdog]

i woulda just like to also say OME shockers are crap i had same 20mm down travel i fitted EFS shockers witch are suited to a 3 inch lift travel an ride are much better do sum dilocation cones thou the spring doesnt fall out but will pop out of place sumtimes , ARB shops wont even let u order any other brand of suspention thru thier stores

[Bush65]

I have some comments about the description given for determining optimum closed length of the shockie.

At the rear, the measurement of the bump stop clearance plus bump stop deflection allowance can be directly applied to the shockie length because the shockie is inclined considerably to the path of the axle.

IMHO 20mm allowance for bump stop deflection is too little.

Unlike the rear shockie, the front is inclined close to the path of the axle, but it is difficult to obtain a good measurement for bump stop clearance. The problem with getting a good measurement is because the radius arms force the front axle to travel in relatively tight arc. At ride height, with lifted suspension, the surface on the axle that strikes the bump stop is at a considerable angle to the bump stop. This results in a large variation in bump stop clearance if the clearance is measured at the front or back.

Because there are so many different shockies to chose from I'm not familiar with the large majority. It seems to me that lengths may go up/down in increments of approximately 2" (50mm) so great accuracy in the optimum closed/open length is somewhat academic.

What is important is to ensure that the shockie is not fully closed before the bump stop limits up travel if you hit a bad washerway or similar at speed - don't be too ambitious in obtaining every extra mm travel and risk breaking a shockie when you are far from home.

Edit: BTW Lambrover, it looks like your suspension setup is working very well :thumbsup:

[isuzurover]

OME shocks are manufactured by monroe.

I have OME 110 rear shocks on the rear of my mil-IIA. They seem to work well in this application and are a good length - however one started weeping oil almost as soon as irt was fitted. I doubt I would ever buy them again - and only bought them the first time because I got them very cheap.

[ugu80]

All shocks made in Australia are made by Monroe, to the end users (brand name) specs. Its the only manufacturer of shocks in Aus.

[LowRanger]

Unfortunately,whilst damning the OME shocks,you have stated that you have fitted Rancho shocks!!!!!!!!!!.Now maybe the OME shocks that come in a kit from ARB or the likes,are probably not the best for the job,for the average punter whose 4WD never sees a dirt road or at the most,light 4wding,then they are ok.For anyone that is serious,then they need to be replaced with something more suitable.I agree in principle with your description on determining the optimum closed length of the shock,but with the provisos stated by John.OME actually make longer length shocks that will do the job nicely,especially if you have fitted extended shock towers on the front,and the only way to get the rears to work to their full potential without other major mechanical modifications,is to change the top shock mounts which change the angle that the rear shock work at, and to run pin/pin shocks or use a pin/eye adaptor.Unfortunately with the angle generated with the rear suspension cycling,it is not uncommon to find Rancho and some other brands of shocks,that have a small eye mount,where the eye mount breaks away from the body of the shock.I have had personal experience of this on one of my earlier Rangies,and it is fairly well known in the comp circles.Also,I would advise to stay away from foam cell type shocks,if you are going to do any touring or carrying any loads,as the heat generated in the foam cell shocks,quite often leads to premature failure.Not something that the manufacturers/retailers of these types of shock will admit.But there are a lot of unhappy people about that have thought they would save a buck and have been bitten in the hip pocket.
Fox shocks are very nice and used in a lot of competition vehicles,and are rebuildable and adjustable,but for longevity I would look at something like Koni Raids,which are also rebuildable,and they are made with longevity in mind,as they are very heavy duty and based around a truck shock design.Either way,both are top shelf units and you pay accordingly.

Wayne

[isuzurover]

All shocks made in Australia are made by Monroe, to the end users (brand name) specs. Its the only manufacturer of shocks in Aus.

I thought dobinsons and others made them as well - but it seems not...

[stig0000]

if a shock was to crack at the weld, due to normal use, (it is a 4wd??) would that be a warranty item

[LowRanger]

if a shock was to crack at the weld, due to normal use, (it is a 4wd??) would that be a warranty item

Depends if the shock was actually the recommended fitment shock for that vehicle.

wayne

[Psimpson7]

I ripped the eye of an OME LTR which I bought back in the UK and fitted myself, and ARB warrantied it over here and replaced it.

[isuzu110]

if a shock was to crack at the weld, due to normal use, (it is a 4wd??) would that be a warranty item

I had an eye rip off a Koni and it was replaced under warranty. I had bought the shocks in Brisbane and did the warranty claim whilst in Darwin.

[Reads90]

I personal have never had any problems with OME shocks when i was driving around AUS or winch challenging in the Uk with them.


BUT you moentioned Fox Shocks yeah they are good but alot more expensive than OME shocks so can'r really compair them . But fox shocks are crap compaired to Olins and to Olins are crap compaired to Reiger There is always somthing better

My brother rans fox on his TMC Land Rover racer (untill he replaces them with Reigers, olins on his TD5 freelander racer and Reiger on his 1.8 Freelander racer.

But Reigers will cost you about $4000 a corner (or each shock )

[ugu80]

I thought dobinsons and others made them as well - but it seems not...

Maybe they fall into the 'Australian owned' bracket, e.g. Pedders, whose shocks are made in Canada and Mexico.

[lambrover]

Thanks for the technical additions Bush 65 and LowRanger, I have actualy being looking at the fox shocks and can be bought at a resonable price of the net.

My comments on OME shocks I believe they are very poorly thought out as thay have very little down travel,(not sure of other off the shelf products). The common way around this has been to fit 2 inch lowered shock mounts, so my comments are to do with why hasn't OME built there shock to better suit the standard mounts.

A mate of mine had the new OME LTR shocky and that cracked around the eye, was replaced under warranty. I too have heard that Rancho's have had failures but thankfully I haven't had any yet, I do drive some good tracks at times but not at competition speed.

[LowRanger]

The problem isn't that the OME shocks have no down travel,as the travel in the shock is governed by its opened and closed lengths.The problem is the length of the shocks supplied as a "kit".I know what you mean when you talk about shock limiting down travel,as when I bought my Defender,it had Nitrochargers fitted,and whilst giving a comfortable ride on the road,they do limit travel.But since then I now have raised front top shock mounts and OME shocks that have an extended length of 26.5" and this allows more down travel,where the travel is now limited by bushes in the front end.Also fitting the same shocks to the rear,on modified top mounts,allows the shock angle to be altered,allowing more flex and taking the stress from the shock mount,alleviating broken shocks.This can be accomplished with other brands of shocks of similar lengths,but as you have already found out,quite a few are not valved correctly for a Landrover and others become price prohibitive.Another wel priced shock that is getting good write ups is the Terrafirma shocks.I have looked at the +5" and they have similar specs to the OME's and reports from OS have been positive,with most saying they give a softer ride than the OME equivalent.Guess in the end it comes down to what you like and can justify costwise.

Wayne

[lambrover]

yes I agree, I surpose I should have made it clearer about the travel.

I have done similar to you made my own shock towers to suit my shock needs.

can you post photo's of your rear upper mounts

[Psimpson7]

To add to lowrangers post I find the performance of my LTR's to be excellent. I also suffer limited down travel, but that isnt the fault of the dampers engineering as such, more a poor choice of damper for max wheel travel.

[MTB]

LowRanger
Is that the OME N73L (Toyota 80 series front shock) you are running both front and back?
Did you make up your own rear pin mount or did you get one from Devon 4x4 of Terrafirma?

Frank

[Psimpson7]

These may be useful to somone here. compares OME LTR's with the N73/74 and various Bilstein shocks. first image is rear. second is front.

ETA to give some actual tech to the below images my springs are an exact 2" lift and the measurements were done based on that. Compression limit is spot on as it rubs the top layer of paint of the wheel arch lip when on the big tyres (35x13.5) with the arches off.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/547.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/548.jpg

[LowRanger]

LowRanger
Is that the OME N73L (Toyota 80 series front shock) you are running both front and back?
Did you make up your own rear pin mount or did you get one from Devon 4x4 of Terrafirma?

Frank


I have OME N73L shocks front and rear.
My mounts came from Gwyn Lewis in the UK.Gwyn actually designed the mounts that are now made by Terrafirma and he isn't a happy man:mad:
But he really knows his stuff,and his mounts don't look pretty like some of the others,but they are a proven product and they are galvanised:).
I also have his cranked rear arms and extended brake lines.
Anyone that is considering some suspension mods,I can recommend a call to Gwyn,as he is a really nice guy to talk to,and likes a bit of technical banter.

[LowRanger]

If I was going to run a 3 link etc.I would think about the 7100's.But with the normal rover suspension,they seem to me to be a lot of work on the front,requiring eye/pin adaptors etc for a minimal gain,considering the normal suspension bushes will bind long before the full travel of the shocks is used.And I have an aversion to monotube shocks.

[MTB]

Thanks LowRager
What did you do in the spring department?
+2" ?
with or without dislocaters (front / rear) ?

Frank

[LowRanger]

I am waiting on some new springs to arrive.I am going to try some +2" flexi springs,similar to what Sam def-90 has in his,except mine will be made to suit my 110.My rear springs will be retained at the bottom,but have Gwyn Lewis spring retainer/cones for the top.And the fronts have the cones built in to the raised shock towers.Will try and get some pics of the assembled parts,and then when the springs turn up,will post some pics of everything installed.

[Offender90]

Pete,

Have you taken into account the additional length of the shock pin to eye adapters in the 7100 measurements? (i.e. adding approximately 20mm to open and closed lengths for each pin to eye adapter you have to use on the shock).

Or are they all pin-to-pin / pin-to-eye (front/rear) measurements?


These may be useful to somone here. compares OME LTR's with the N73/74 and various Bilstein shocks. first image is rear. second is front.

ETA to give some actual tech to the below images my springs are an exact 2" lift and the measurements were done based on that. Compression limit is spot on as it rubs the top layer of paint of the wheel arch lip when on the big tyres (35x13.5) with the arches off.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/547.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/548.jpg

[Psimpson7]

Pete,

Have you taken into account the additional length of the shock pin to eye adapters in the 7100 measurements? (i.e. adding approximately 20mm to open and closed lengths for each pin to eye adapter you have to use on the shock).

Or are they all pin-to-pin / pin-to-eye (front/rear) measurements?

Hey Bojan,

Good point. No I didn't. They would be done on the measurements supplied by Bilstein. Ie I would assume centre of Eye or middle of pin.

Rgds
Pete

[LowRanger]

Yes,according to Bilstein,7100 series shocks are all eye/eye connections

[lambrover]

To add to lowrangers post I find the performance of my LTR's to be excellent. I also suffer limited down travel, but that isnt the fault of the dampers engineering as such, more a poor choice of damper for max wheel travel.

My dislike for them is the travel not the ride quality, I believe it is bad engineering from the manufacture to build a shock with such limited travel, so to get the better travel you have to revert to fitting cruiser shocks or the likes, I surpose they could have put abit more effort into getting the lenghts correct.

[LowRanger]

They probably fit another vehicle with less articulation perfectly.And because it is only a Land Rover they have thrown it together in a kit to suit:(Afterall,there aren't a lot of companies in Australia that make parts purely designed for Land Rovers.Hence why I went to the UK to source the bits for my suspension.

[Reads90]

:(Afterall,there aren't a lot of companies in Australia that make parts purely designed for Land Rovers.Hence why I went to the UK to source the bits for my suspension.


Funny that
Grass is always greenr on the other side


When i was living in the UK, the Uk surpension companies were pretty much seen as rubbish compaired to the Australia companies ( and i am not just talking about Scrap Iron as we all knew their surpension was really rubbish). Anyone that was anyone had Aus surpension on their trucks and i am talking tourers , winch challenge trucks , and racer. So alround

[LowRanger]

Well,my springs and shocks are made here at least.But have to admit that the rest comes from old blighty:D

[thejonoaffair]

Sorry to join the conversation so late but.....
I see most of the veiws on Old Man Emu on this tread are to do with the shocks.... What do you guys think about the springs from OME? I'm in a position to get front and rear springs to lift my stock Puma 50mm and am (now) thinking about OME springs mated with Bilstiens or Konis. Any thoughts on this? Its mainly to hold the load of my bullbar and winch and hold weight in the back when I travel/tow. The added height will be to fit my new 255/85R16s better :D

[justinc]

Sorry to join the conversation so late but.....
I see most of the veiws on Old Man Emu on this tread are to do with the shocks.... What do you guys think about the springs from OME? I'm in a position to get front and rear springs to lift my stock Puma 50mm and am (now) thinking about OME springs mated with Bilstiens or Konis. Any thoughts on this? Its mainly to hold the load of my bullbar and winch and hold weight in the back when I travel/tow. The added height will be to fit my new 255/85R16s better :D

the 50mm lift will upset the puma front driveshaft drive angles, you may well need to fit a double cardan joint front shaft to avoid vibrations.

I haven't had many issues at all with OME springs, the shocks however...:(

JC

[Drover]

I have got Emu's 767 +50mm up front. Been in for 4 year.
They have fine, no sag and very progressive in their rate.

They are matched with a pair f TF's Pro-sports +50mm front shocks.

Now for the list of additional parts to make it all work......

Double Cadon front prop shaft
New front sway bar brackets to lower sway bar to clear props shaft due to extra drop.
Front dislocation cones.
HD front shock towers
HD turret rings.
HD front spring retainers

If you use +50mm shocks the above kit is a requirement not a choice.

[thejonoaffair]

I have got Emu's 767 +50mm up front. Been in for 4 year.
They have fine, no sag and very progressive in their rate.

They are matched with a pair f TF's Pro-sports +50mm front shocks.

Now for the list of additional parts to make it all work......

Double Cadon front prop shaft
New front sway bar brackets to lower sway bar to clear props shaft due to extra drop.
Front dislocation cones.
HD front shock towers
HD turret rings.
HD front spring retainers

If you use +50mm shocks the above kit is a requirement not a choice.

ARGH! That'd be right, its never just "Bolt these on and it'll be fine" is it!? Are the sway bar brackets bought or fabricated special? Where would be the best place to source all this from? Thanks for the info though!

[newhue]

johno...hows the affair.

mate it seems a bit pot luck I think with these pumas. Some have had a lot of grief, other a bit less, and some it appears none. Well in the suspension department anyway.

I have a set of Les Richmond "purple" in the front of mine. They are 50mm bigger than stock as they are actually RR rears. I mated them with Koni 90 +40 shocks. I don't seem to have any vibrations, still run the standard drive shaft, and have done 50K on the set up. With good articulation chucked in there to boot with no issues.

got me a bit confused.

[Drover]

ARGH! That'd be right, its never just "Bolt these on and it'll be fine" is it!? Are the sway bar brackets bought or fabricated special? Where would be the best place to source all this from? Thanks for the info though!

Sway bar bracket were fabricated up, but a reasonable simple job.

The rest of the kit was from Terra-Firma hard ware, sourced from Sydney 4x4 Accessories. Link below

Terrafirma 4x4 Suspension Kits for Land Rover | sydney4x4accessories - sydney4x4accessories (http://www.sydney4x4accessories.com/5-suspension)

[nugge t]

After seeing so many troubles with Puma lifts I opted to leave my suspension at standard height.

I did however put HD 130 LR springs in the front to keep it at stock height after fitting the bullbar and winch, and put in a set of OE shocks all round.

I understand that shocks are very much a Ford v Holden type argument but I have had a fantastic run out of mine. After doing the Anne Beadell, Connie Sue, Plenty H/way (3 times), Gary Junction Rd, Wapet Rd, Talawana Track as well as the Gary, Gunbarrel and Mary H/Ways, the front pair had changed colour from bright yellow to glazed burnt black, but they still worked perfectly.

With so much low speed, high activity use, in high temperature areas….it was 47C one day…the heat build up had burnt the paint but as I say, they were still working perfectly. I am particularly impressed with the seals in them as after being subjected to such heat, there was no evidence of leaking at all.

I contacted ARB to ask the question and they flew a set to Alice Springs where their store swapped them over, just in case. Can not ask for better back up than that.

[Drover]

Het Nugget,

Hard to complain about that service. My Emu springs have been trouble free as well.

Contact you when get back home for the air box fitting.

Cheers
Grant

[thejonoaffair]

Thanks for all the info guys. I might just get a set of spings and shocks (not decided which yet) and get all the other "required" items ready to order if problems arise. I was speaking to my man at ARB Albury today and he got onto his man at OME and was informed that OME now do a long travel kit for the defender and this all includes longer Nitrocharger Sport shocks, coil packers, caster kit, sway bar and bump-stop spacers and notes that the front driveshaft MUST be replaced with a Double Cardan Joint..... Has anyone heard of them doing this? Perhaps OME is aware of the short shock problem???

[Drover]

.OME now do a long travel kit for the defender and this all includes coil packers, caster kit, sway bar and bump-stop spacers and notes that the front driveshaft MUST be replaced with a Double Cardan Joint..... Has anyone heard of them doing this? Perhaps OME is aware of the short shock problem???

Coil packers ????

You just need dislocation cones ! $110 for the pair.

"Caster kit" I assume is just new off set bushes. If you want to caster correct then you need to buy caster correction arms 3 deg for 50mm lift, 6 deg for plus 50mm lift.

ARB or Emu what ever you want to call them are marketing to every 4x4 on the planet and pretending to the master of everything.

TerraFirma are Land Rover specific. Very reasonable prices and made for the job !

50mm kits (4 springs, 4 shocks - from $660)

Check their site, you will be surprised on the prices and very happy with the result.

Speak to Mark at Sydney 4x4 accessories, he will set you on the right path.

And they are a supporter of this site.

[thejonoaffair]

Yeah your right.... I was leaning toward terrafirma anyway and I'd rather go with a mob that is concentrating on one brand or type of vehicle rather than "jack of all trades, master of none."

[Drover]

You need to make your own informed decision, based on your own research and determination.

Any lift will require all of those bit I listed previously.

DC shaft ? Mine was custom but a lot of members are having great results with Tom Woods Shafts. You will need one !

Really for the benefits its not that expensive, so go for it.

Sort it once..sorted it right..set and forget !

[isuzutoo-eh]

The Terrafirma bits should be pretty good, seeing as they were copied from the very good product from Gwyn Lewis ;)

[Reads90]

The Terrafirma bits should be pretty good, seeing as they were copied from the very good product from Gwyn Lewis ;)

Yeah Terrafirma should be run by the Chinese they way they have copied everything , not come up with anything themselves.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 2

[thejonoaffair]

Double Cadon front prop shaft
New front sway bar brackets to lower sway bar to clear props shaft due to extra drop.
Front dislocation cones.
HD front shock towers
HD turret rings.
HD front spring retainers

If you use +50mm shocks the above kit is a requirement not a choice.

When you say "HD front shock towers".... Are they standard height ones, or are they taller or shorter than standard? Bearing in mind im only looking for a 2" lift here.

[micksta1973]

You don't need a double cardan front shaft with a 50mm lift, a 30 degree wide angle shaft works fine. well it has been working for me for 4 yrs with no vibrations/problems.

[DEF95]

I heard terrafirma springs are made by dobinsons. I have a set of dobinsons standard height 225lbs front and 330lbs rears and they are very rough/harsh.As far as I know kings make OME springs so I would go with either of them which I will be doing in a few months.

[Brad110]

I have a set of T expedition on the rear of a Tdi and for the price I am impressed. In the past I have used Bils and Dobinsons (twin set up) on the rear with 50mm, no sway bar and constant load and impressed with T shocks at 100 each.

They're huge I didn't believe they'd fit when I saw them.

I guess it's whatever gets you home. It's all relative as my other is a S1.

[thejonoaffair]

I know its a little off topic for the title but I just want to say, anyone looking for a driveshaft of any breed will do well to contact Tom Wood's Driveshafts in Utah. Just had one specially made for my upcoming lift job (following previous advice on this post about driveshafts) and I got it to my door for less than AUD700. My local machine shop wanted over $800 just for the double cardan joint to join into my current stock front shaft off my 110. Their total quote was over $1,400. Its a shame I couldn't go local but for half the price, its a no-brainer.;)
Cheers!

[johnrover]

Gday Guys,

I have just fitted up ARBs new long travel kit to my Puma 110 HCPU and it is the best set-up i have had. The kit came with front and rear shocks and springs, rear shock mounts, bump stop packers and caster correction. ARB / OME defiantly are not just a 'jack of all trades' type of 'just throw it together' company. If you guys went and had a look in store at their selection charts you will see and understand that each shock and spring selection has been specifically engineered and designed to suite different loads and constant accessories. I have also done a factory tour at their facility in Kilsyth Victoria and their engineering and manufacturing department is state-of-the art to say the least. Yes i had to purchase a new double carden front shaft but i could get the rest from ARB and i know it is all top quality stuff and best of all, all Australian engineered and manufactured. No wonder they are are selling product all over the world.

[n plus one]

Gday Guys,

I have just fitted up ARBs new long travel kit to my Puma 110 HCPU and it is the best set-up i have had. The kit came with front and rear shocks and springs, rear shock mounts, bump stop packers and caster correction. ARB / OME defiantly are not just a 'jack of all trades' type of 'just throw it together' company. If you guys went and had a look in store at their selection charts you will see and understand that each shock and spring selection has been specifically engineered and designed to suite different loads and constant accessories. I have also done a factory tour at their facility in Kilsyth Victoria and their engineering and manufacturing department is state-of-the art to say the least. Yes i had to purchase a new double carden front shaft but i could get the rest from ARB and i know it is all top quality stuff and best of all, all Australian engineered and manufactured. No wonder they are are selling product all over the world.

Sounds like they have a good set up for Defenders now!

I think the criticism reflected that their previous kit had poorly specced shock lengths which limited down travel. That, and the fact that most of their stores hadn't tweaked to the need to ensure a DC prop was fitted - hence quite a few members ended up with: crap wheel travel/bad vibrations/damaged transfer cases/difficult warranty issues.

I agree that a lot of ARB product was/is actually very high quality - though often quite pricey (like the Intensity lights I'm currently looking at!).

Edit: What prop shaft did you get?