D3 rear diff lock

[Dirty3]

Hi all,

Does anyone know if is possible to, or is anyone (read ARB) making a diff lock for the D3 rear diff? I know it is available as an option on new models (e-diff) but I wonder how long till one can be adapted for aftermarket?

Neil.:confused:

[oldsalt]

This is a question that has been asked many times......and I'll be in the queue to purchase one if and when they ever become available.....

[trobbo]

All we can do is make constant approaches to ARB at this time and ask them if they have one.
If ARB receive enough enquiries through the sales team they will see the benefit in producing one.

I have asked for a diff lock and sahara bar for my D3

[DiscoSaffa]

I stand to be corrected, but I think the issue with a "normal" diff lock on the D3 is that when locked, it will wreak havoc with the traction control etc etc...... The e-diff, being an "e"-diff works in conjunction with all the other traction aids.

I reckon the pressure is better applied to LRA to allow us to retro fit the e-diff. Does anyobe know why this isn't, or can't be done? :confused:

[Neil P]

Would you really want to pay for an entire e-diff/half shaft assem.
plus CANbus enabled software plus fitting ? 6 Grand plus ??

[DiscoSaffa]

Would you really want to pay for an entire e-diff/half shaft assem.
plus CANbus enabled software plus fitting ? 6 Grand plus ??

OUCH!!! :eek:

[isuzurover]

I stand to be corrected, but I think the issue with a "normal" diff lock on the D3 is that when locked, it will wreak havoc with the traction control etc etc...... The e-diff, being an "e"-diff works in conjunction with all the other traction aids.

I reckon the pressure is better applied to LRA to allow us to retro fit the e-diff. Does anyobe know why this isn't, or can't be done? :confused:

I don't see how. Traction control kicks in when the wheels are turning at different speeds. When a diff is locked, both wheels turn at the same speed.

Previous model LRs with ETC and ABS have had no issues when diff locks are fitted.

It may be a better idea to approach McNamara - I am sure they would need a smaller customer list to start production.

[Psimpson7]

It may be a better idea to approach McNamara - I am sure they would need a smaller customer list to start production.

Man, how much fun would that phonecall be!! :eek::eek:

[isuzurover]

Man, how much fun would that phonecall be!! :eek::eek:

I have bought a few bits and pieces from Jeff recently, and I have found him fine to deal with.

You just need to treat him like the Soup Nazi from Seinfeld... :D

JERRY: There's only one caveat -- the guy who runs the place is a little

temperamental, especially about the ordering procedure. He's secretly

referred to as the Soup Nazi.

ELAINE: Why? What happens if you don't order right?

JERRY: He yells and you don't get your soup.

ELAINE: What?

JERRY: Just follow the ordering procedure and you will be fine.

GEORGE: All right. All right. Let's - let's go over that again.

JERRY: All right. As you walk in the place move immediately to your right.

ELAINE: What?

JERRY: The main thing is to keep the line moving.

GEORGE: All right. So, you hold out your money, speak your soup in a loud,

clear voice, step to the left and receive.

JERRY: Right. It's very important not to embellish on your order. No

extraneous comments. No

questions. No compliments.

ELAINE: Oh, boy, I'm really scared!

[gghaggis]

Keep in mind that the LR eDiff is a variable device - it can lock yet still allow some wheelspin, and it can lock/unlock very quickly.

With an aftermarket locker (if such a beast was to exist), you would soon be doing what all the other owners with manual difflocks do - start looking for stronger axles and CV joints. And they don't exist either ..........

Cheers,

Gordon

[DiscoSaffa]

I don't see how. Traction control kicks in when the wheels are turning at different speeds. When a diff is locked, both wheels turn at the same speed.

Previous model LRs with ETC and ABS have had no issues when diff locks are fitted.

The key to my statement, was traction aids, the terrain response system, as I understand it anyway, is a little more complicated than just traction control..... but thinking about perhaps that is overcomplicating it.....

Begs the question then, why has no-one developed one? Fitting an aftermarket diff-lock would almost certainly void any warranty (a scary prospect in a D3) but there are more and more around that are out of warranty and being bought by serious off-roaders keen to modify the vehicles......

That said, one has to get into some pretty tricky sticky situations before one needs a diff lock in a D3……..

[isuzurover]

you would soon be doing what all the other owners with manual difflocks do - start looking for stronger axles and CV joints. ...

Sorry Gordon, but I am not sure how true that is. I would bet that the majority of people who fit diff locks (in landies) still run the standard CVs, and many standard axles.

Those with 24 spline axles wouldn't need to upgrade if Land Rover hadn't decreased the material strength when it increased the diameter (i.e. OEM 10-spline axles are as strong as OEM 24-spline).

I am sure the rear end of the D3/4 should be strong enough to handle a locker.

Btw - I have had a reply from a contact at ARB, just waiting on permission to post his comments.



Begs the question then, why has no-one developed one?

Watch this space, and I can hopefully give an answer from ARB...

[isuzurover]

Response from your friendly local ARB R&D engineer:

G'day Ben,

No immediate plans for Disco 3/4 in the pipeline.
We have done the tear-down feasibility and LR made them very tough and and
an expensive development for us.
But ARB has always been a strong supporter of Land Rover, and no doubt at
all you will see them available in the future.
I think currently the cost of the Disco 3/4 is keeping the average guy away
from wanting to be too rough with them.
But when the sales numbers are there to begin thinking about paying off the
development costs then it will all happen.

He also said they would need a [significant] volume order for anything to happen right away... Not sure if there would be the numbers for a group buy at this stage???

[Neil P]

I don't honestly think the D3 and it's cousins are a " knock about"
design TBH . The older they become , the closer to a vehicle-crusher
they will get . The electronics will be the death of them . They'll be
out lived by X5's . Keeping them on the road will be a lost battle
of unacceptable expense.
Before mine is 6 and out of warranty, it'll be ditched . I wouldn't
touch it with a barge pole after that , and it's not even diesel
( thank God ).

[Jamo]

I would bet that the majority of people who fit diff locks (in landies) still run the standard CVs, and many standard axles.



If most don't need uprated CV's etc, then perhaps they don't need the diff lock in the first place.

The D3 already has a centre diff lock and one of the best traction control systems available. Sure, the rear e-diff makes thing a bit easier, but I would suggest that if the cost is going to be high, for the number times the traction control won't be able to handle the situation, is an aftermarket diff lock needed?

[flyreels]

I don't honestly think the D3 and it's cousins are a " knock about"
design TBH . The older they become , the closer to a vehicle-crusher
they will get . The electronics will be the death of them . They'll be
out lived by X5's . Keeping them on the road will be a lost battle
of unacceptable expense.
Before mine is 6 and out of warranty, it'll be ditched . I wouldn't
touch it with a barge pole after that , and it's not even diesel
( thank God ).

So you really like your D3 then? Before looking at the D3 I looked at the X5's and the forums are full of fault and problems, way more than the problems on here that the D3's seem to have. So what has gone wrong with your's?
From a potential D3 owner
Cheers Peter

[Neil P]

So you really like your D3 then?
I've got little faith in its reliability Peter , or the Dealerships who
sell them either. Without a BBS I wouldn't venture inland and
even with , I've got the sat 'phone ; not that it summons anyone
with a clue or a trailer necessarily . The older I get , the more I fly
rather than drive . I don't want any hassel anymore , thankyou.

[flyreels]

I've got little faith in its reliability Peter , or the Dealerships who
sell them either. Without a BBS I wouldn't venture inland and
even with , I've got the sat 'phone ; not that it summons anyone
with a clue or a trailer necessarily . The older I get , the more I fly
rather than drive . I don't want any hassel anymore , thankyou.

Thanks for your reply, is there anything in particular I should be looking for, my preference is a V8?
Thanks peter

[gghaggis]

There are always personal experiences that differ enough to make the potential buyer worried about all sorts of events.

Since March 2006, I've ventured inland, deserts, towing caravans 8500 kms or more,and never had a problem that stopped me - without a BBS or anything else. So have a lot of fellow D3 owners I know. I also acknowledge that there are a few out there with the opposite experience. But to put things into perspective, I don't think this minority is any bigger within the Land Rover fraternity than any other brand's owners.

With regards to the rear locker, I respectfully disagree with Ben's comments - the majority of people that have fitted lockers to Land Rovers are the type of people that push their cars a little harder, and they end up changing the axles at least, if not the CV's. Maybe not for stronger ones, but they (almost) all break them! The D3/D4/RRS is built stronger (in terms of LR axles and CV's) than the previous LR models, but that doesn't push it much beyond the average Toyo or Nissan, and they break axles with diff locks regularly.

As to whether you actually need a diff lock in a D3, for 95% of any terrain a good driver will encounter, you won't need it - the traction control is _that_ good. That remaining 5% is probably something you'd never drive without 35" tyres and a lift anyway. We've proven this again and again on our training days, and the only terrain where the difference is noticeable is steep rock climbs.

Cheers,

Gordon

[Jamo]

I agree!:thumbsup:

[rmp]

Gordon is correct. Because lockers place more stress on the transmission -- think of a twin-locked vehicle climbing with diagonal wheels in the air -- then the transmission, specifically axles, needs uprating. If all you do is dirt roads with a locked vehicle obviously you won't have an issue, and remember breakages often build up over time as parts weaken so driving one hill with no damage doesn't mean to say all is fine.

Whether you *need* a D3 locker is covered in the FAQ.

As to an aftermarket locker and Terrain Response; I think it would work but not optimally.

In older vehicles you just had traction control as as a locker prevented the wheels from spinning at different rates then the traction control on that axle never activated so no problem. The D3 is however different as the ETC is not so isolated, it's part of the entire system which controls engine torque, front/rear torque split, front and rear ETC linked together. The factory locker is designed to be a part of all this, an aftermarket one is not. I can't see a D3 aftermarket locker selling enough to be viable so my advice is specify one when you buy and search out vehicles that have one when you source secondhand.

[Jesse B]

As to whether you actually need a diff lock in a D3, for 95% of any terrain a good driver will encounter, you won't need it - the traction control is _that_ good. That remaining 5% is probably something you'd never drive without 35" tyres and a lift anyway. We've proven this again and again on our training days, and the only terrain where the difference is noticeable is steep rock climbs.

Cheers,

Gordon

To add my voice to this discussion: when I ordered my D4 I, for reasons I will never be able to explain, allowed myself to be talked out of the rear e-diff (by overly "helpful" sales staff). When I realised maybe I'd got this wrong my vehicle was close to shipping - and I was not going to go to the back of queue. From then on, until Saturday a few weeks back, I stressed to the max about "stuffing this up".

Having been out on one of GOE's training days - and having discovered how effortlessly brilliant the Traction Control system is - I've set my mind at rest. The places my vehicle went without a rear diff lock were well beyond where I'd be chosing to go - and certainly wild enough to cover unexpected situations. From my experience that day the key was throttle control - just enough juice to break a wheel free, and let the TC kick in. Truly it is a brilliant system!

So, for those who (like me) may have not ticked that box - relax! I reckon the beast will get me anywhere I want to go, and well further than I'm ever likely to try. If I had my time again? Well, of course I'd order one - but I would not be jumping on any queue for an aftermarket locker. And what a relief it is to no longer be stressing about it!

[ADMIRAL]

I don't honestly think the D3 and it's cousins are a " knock about"
design TBH . The older they become , the closer to a vehicle-crusher
they will get . The electronics will be the death of them . They'll be
out lived by X5's . Keeping them on the road will be a lost battle
of unacceptable expense.
Before mine is 6 and out of warranty, it'll be ditched . I wouldn't
touch it with a barge pole after that , and it's not even diesel
( thank God ).
Vastly different vehicles. If you have ever looked under an X5, you will realise that even if it had the drive system to get it half the places a D3/D4 will go, it would never survive the beating. Most definitely a driveway cruiser.

[Dirty3]

To add my voice to this discussion: when I ordered my D4 I, for reasons I will never be able to explain, allowed myself to be talked out of the rear e-diff (by overly "helpful" sales staff). From my experience that day the key was throttle control - just enough juice to break a wheel free, and let the TC kick in. Truly it is a brilliant system!

So, for those who (like me) may have not ticked that box - relax! I reckon the beast will get me anywhere I want to go, and well further than I'm ever likely to try. If I had my time again? Well, of course I'd order one - but I would not be jumping on any queue for an aftermarket locker. And what a relief it is to no longer be stressing about it!

Thanks for all the feedback, it is truly appreciated. I too was talked out of the eDiff when looking to buy a D4. As I didn't go ahead anyway, I found a couple of D3's for sale with them, but eventually went with a D3 (I pick it up tomorrow!!!) low Km's. After all the advice here, it sounds like i've got enough tiger in the tank coming my way. Really keen to have a play this weekend up in the Jamieson area, so will report back. Thanks again,
Cheers, Neil.

[furrydog]

Neil,
I went the same way as you. The 2 LDR salesman I dealt with both pushed D4 without the elocker. Their reasoning was that D4 doesn’t need it and most people won’t use it and don’t want to pay for it. So LDR Australia will not order them except on a special order.

[CaverD3]

Someone in the UK has installed a LR diff lock after buying. Awaiting details on how he did it.

[ADMIRAL]

Neil,
I went the same way as you. The 2 LDR salesman I dealt with both pushed D4 without the elocker. Their reasoning was that D4 doesn’t need it and most people won’t use it and don’t want to pay for it. So LDR Australia will not order them except on a special order.

It must be up to the dealers. When I ordered mine, there were three available, ( for this dealer ) already on the boat. Apart from trim differences, all had the E diff and xenon headlight option.