Front tyre size smaller than rears?

[Chad]

Hi

I know I ask some prettty dumb questions and this could be well one of them, but if I was planning on running a different diameter tyre on the front of my series 3, about 3 inches smaller in total, would this create problems in transfer, diff gearbox or otherwise.

I know it seems like a dumbe question, but I am building something, based on a landy 109 v8 ute, and the way i am settting up, looks like this is how it will be.

Fronts 225/35/20 rears 265/35/22 so

diameter totals being 671mm front 744mm rear

Thanks again Chad.

Will post some pics soon. For anyone interested.

[loanrangie]

Hi

I know I ask some prettty dumb questions and this could be well one of them, but if I was planning on running a different diameter tyre on the front of my series 3, about 3 inches smaller in total, would this create problems in transfer, diff gearbox or otherwise.

I know it seems like a dumbe question, but I am building something, based on a landy 109 v8 ute, and the way i am settting up, looks like this is how it will be.

Fronts 225/35/20 rears 265/35/22 so

diameter totals being 671mm front 744mm rear

Thanks again Chad.

Will post some pics soon. For anyone interested.

In 2wd no problem, in 4wd big problem and transfer case go boom.

[Chad]

the 109 series 3 v8s are full time 4x4 aren't they?

so I guess best to remove the front tailshaft?

Any other way around it?

Thanks for the reply.

Chad

[isuzutoo-eh]

Stage 1s (V8 S3) are permanent 4wd, so it will cause problems with the centre diff working overtime.

[Sprint]

umm..... WHY?

[Sprint]

ok..... given a lil more info in a PM, i'd suggest this:

1: select tyres with a aspect ratio to bring front/rear tyres to the same kinda size
2: juggle front/rear diff ratios to suit the tyres (3.54 front-4.11/4.44 rear) and adjust tyre size to suit
3: convert it to run RWD only - a LOT more freedom in regards to gearbox selection

have you considered consulting with an engineer about this? in several states, you WILL have issues re: tyre/wheel sizes, load ratings, etc

[Chad]

yep

been to engineer.

found wheels/tyres load rated.

was just asking as i wasnt sure if there was a diff type mechanism in transfer case etc. might be just as easy to remove the front tailshaft.

if i remove whole diff assembly etc, changes the whole regs etc regarding engineer.

are the rear diffs strong enough to handle being run withouth the front driving as well?

obviously won't be using for 4wd, just looking to build something different, plenty of f100/chev rods etc... not many landys.

might just settle for front and reaer 265/35/22, just not sure with the amount i am planning to lower it, if it will still fit up under front guard etc...

thanks for your ideas.

[jakeslouw]

You may as well run 2WD and use a 9-inch Ford diff at the back.

[Sprint]

you can still run the front diff, just gut it, no diff centre, driveshafts, CV's, etc, just blank off the hole left by the diff carrier with sheetmetal

you do realise that retaining the original suspension is going to be your biggest enemy in terms of getting it low, right????

best to find a HQ-WB ute chassis and drop the bodywork onto it

[banjo]

best to find a HQ-WB ute chassis and drop the bodywork onto it


Yep seen one of them in street machine .In the owners pages he had a deefa & wanted something diferant so he put a series cab on a holden chassis . Mean looking thing to...IT was a tray back..

[UncleHo]

How are you going to fit 20 inch and 22inch rimmed tyres under a Series body, as these are truck sized rims and you don't really expect to get it registered do you:eek:


cheers

[Psimpson7]

How are you going to fit 20 inch and 22inch rimmed tyres under a Series body, as these are truck sized rims and you don't really expect to get it registered do you:eek:


cheers

265/35/22 as mentioned before is only a 29.3" tyre.

[101RRS]

How are you going to fit 20 inch and 22inch rimmed tyres under a Series body, as these are truck sized rims a

cheers

Plenty of rice burners have that sized tyres - even some RRs.

Garry

[Chad]

Thanks for your help guys...the whole idea was to get ideas, and input.

For the idiots with nothing better to do than critisice others, projects or plans **** OFF.

I never asked you about truck wheels, or if you can register my car.

I asked a simple question, and thanks to those that answered it.

Anyways like all forums, there is the KEYBOARD Warriors who know EVERYTHING about EVERYTHING, maybe yopu should thinks twice before you post, on someones thread if you are just there to critise.

Anyway guys as I said, I am building something different, and if it doesn't interest you, or you don't like it, skip past it, to the next thread.

Thanks Chad

And by the way, it will be engineered, has already been consulted and doing it to his specs.

[isuzurover]

The rear salisbury diff is HUGE, and more than capable of being used in permanent 2wd, with as much HP as you want to throw at it.

It is 99% the same diff as a Dana 60 (google them), and you can fit all the Dana 60 ratios (3.54:1 to 7.17:1).

The axle shafts are only 1.24" 24-spline, but can be upgraded to 1.5" 35-spline (or even larger) if you are that way inclined, using parts from McNamara diffs in melbourne or rovertracks in the US. I have some spare 35-spline side gears that I probably won't use if you ever want to go that way (and keep an open diff).

So your options are either 2wd, with the centre diff in the t-case permanently locked or welded up (if you remove the front prop the car will go nowhere with the CDL unlocked), OR, mix and match ratios and keep 4x4 (fronts are available in 3.54, 3.9, 4.1, 4.7).

Don't fit a 9". D60s are cheaper to build for the same strength or better.

[Chad]

thanks mate

Really appreciate it.

Chad...

I will start working out the best way to go, I just wasn't sure if the transfer had some type of diff inside, and the diameter difference wouldn't worry it, kind of like a open diff when cornering, lets it go around, rather than skip etc.. like a locked diff.

Some one else posted saying I could remove the front internals, and make it kind of just freewheel, that is and option too.

[isuzurover]

thanks mate

Really appreciate it.

Chad...

I will start working out the best way to go, I just wasn't sure if the transfer had some type of diff inside, and the diameter difference wouldn't worry it, kind of like a open diff when cornering, lets it go around, rather than skip etc.. like a locked diff.

Some one else posted saying I could remove the front internals, and make it kind of just freewheel, that is and option too.

The transfer does have a diff, located just behind where the front propshaft bolts on. However it will eventually heat up and seize (and/or wear out) if used on-road with different size wheels for long.

[UncleHo]

G'day Chad

I gather by your post no 14 that you are somewhere between 16-26 some 40 years my junior and some 50 years less experience in the automotive world than me, BTW I was drag racing in 1966/7 at what was Castlereagh drag strip, and I spent most of my working life in the motor trade.

and I OBJECT to your language of -----*****off




Uncle Ho

[isuzurover]

G'day Chad

I gather by your post no 14 that you are somewhere between 16-26 some 40 years my junior and some 50 years less experience in the automotive world than me, BTW I was drag racing in 1966/7 at what was Castlereagh drag strip, and I spent most of my working life in the motor trade.

and I OBJECT to your language of -----*****off




Uncle Ho

With respect UncleHo - all your years of experience haven't improved your reading and comprehension. Chad clearly posted the tyre sizes he was fitting to his 20 and 22" rims.

[UncleHo]

G'day Isuzurover :)

I did miss the profile of the tyres that he stated,but his first post on the thread, started with "I know I ask some pretty dumb questions and this could well be one of them" and with a post count of 22 and seeing that most people on this site are 4x4 and offroad inclined, it would be assumed that it was a sensible answer,as the post stated that he was building something based on a V8 109 ute, and that it was not a competition vehicle.


But, there was no need for the language used.



cheers

[disco2hse]

As has been said, if you are looking at the Stage 1 V8 then this is a permanent 4WD with a centre diff. You have the choice of running in front or rear wheel drive by simply removing one of the drive shafts but unless you have it locked permanently or welded up the centre diff will seize fairly quickly. Obviously the requirement to lock the diff or weld it is because once one of the drive shafts is removed all the power will exit from where it was attached.

Your other alternative is to install a gearbox from another vehicle that does not have a transfer case. You didn't say you wanted to keep 4WD (unless I missed that in a subsequent post).

It does seem a lot of work to achieve something that many utes and trucks have always had, 2WD. Or have I missed something.

If, on the other hand, you want 4WD as optional, then there are plenty of gearboxes with selectable 4WD but unless the ground you are covering is very soft then you can expect the transfer case to bind up, and quickly. What about locking hubs? Would that help?

[Chad]

Well Ho assume no more...

It wasn't a Suitable answer....it was a smartass comment.

And about trying to be smart again in your last post... Do i need to tell you again... I hope not... you already took offence 1st time.

Go play on another thread.... Although MOST are into Standard, or the old 2inch and muddies, some are not. I don't get on here sstiring up people looking for a EX Military, or someone wnating to know something I am not INTERESTED IN.

Surely with all YOUR experience you would Surely no that being a Smart alect will create a Reply??

By me asking Politely and informing it may be a dumb question, Which to NOW I know the answer(thanks people who helped) why put your smartass 2 cents in, then get upset about it?

And about my lack of posts, I don't see then need to INTERFERE with peoples Threads/forums unless I can help or have an input..

I actually have been a member here for a FEW years, if you would like to reasearch that too?


Chad

[dullbird]

Ok easy Fella's :)

lets keep it civil please. No need for it to get personal.....lets respect one another regardless of experience or age

[DiscoDan]

Hi Chad,

I think Blackknight had something to do with the Army drag land rover, he might have an idea about a front axle.

I take it you already have the donor vehicle. I would have thought you would scrap all the drive line and go the Chevy way, but I am sure the standard V8 can be mated to a 2wd gearbox.

From the tyre choice I don't think you are worried about 4wd. I did see a 4 door 4runner on a 2wd Hilux chassis, It looked good. Maybe the Toyota or another Jap 1ton chassis can be adapted to get your body down low enough. Or would this go against all the engineering you have looked at thus far.

Good luck with this and try to get some of the build up pictures in the project pages

Danny

[Chad]

thanks Dan

I was thinking along those lines but due to the RTA laws, has to be classed as a ICV (indepently constructed vehicle) and incurrs around 3-5k of engineers reports etc...

So unfortuantely I have to work with what i have, hence the questions.

I have decided for 1st attempt I am going to keep the tyres same diameter.

i have purchased whit wall inserts for the 16s and also MOON hubcabs to give the Rat look too. After much reasearch and info, both here and on the net, I have worked out, I can get a sort of FAT, Skinny look, by running 235/85/16 fronts and 265/75/16 rears.

I will be painting the car cottage geen, and brushed over matt type original olive drab for Rat look.

Also have been playing with springs etc...

And have turned them Upside down to test height and clearance. There was a bump stop of about 3 inches that is now about 10mm, and only leaving enoguh clearance to not bounce or bump to be unsafe. So efffectively I have lowered around 6 inches, which may not sound like much, but think of how much a 2inch lift looks, let alone a 6 inch lift, except mines the other way.

The sill type peice below the dorr and cab, has been removed, and I going to make one alot wider (height) to cover chassis, and will be like 4 inches from ground, so really gives an optical illusion of being REAL LOW.

Not sure if i will do anything to the front, as don't want a POXY spoiler look, but if needed i wil have to make something to lower it too.

Might have a play with the alloy welder and see if i can come up with a wide kind of bumper mimiking the original, would ideally rather no bumper though.

i am making a narrow tray, steel box section with timber floor, that only just covers the width oc chassis, almost sitting on chassis, with 2 large steel Mudguard type guards(like hot rod) sticking out the sides covering the tyres.

Gas tank will be directly, behind cab, sitting low on chassis and not sure about the cover as one third to half will be sitting up through tray. Thinking of 44 gallon drum sideways cut to suit, painted up.

have led old scholl ford taillights round.

Front lights fit in same original hole, but are us design tri spoke, with a green centre dot, and incorporating indicator in bottom quarter of the actaul light. i will fill in the holes where original parkers/indicators are and chrome the headlight surround.

Thats where im at so far...

Chad.

[Outlaw]

Sounds interesting. Looking forward to some pics.

Plus i think go the 2 sized wheels 20 & 22" with front prop removed and centre diff in :)

[Chad]

Will still be the next stage.

Just waiting to see if the rims can NOW be drilled to the 5/6.5PCD.

Was only 1 load rated wheel, that could be engineered, and now may not have AUST Standard,

Is being sold by reputable Wheel/tyre place, TYREPOWER so hopefully can be used.

Specification is Load rated, but now AUST Standard don't seem to match up.

Anyway, always a way around these problems, but I won't build something for the Public roads, that isn't safe for Myself or others, thats why I race the other Landy, can do it Safely.

Chad

[isuzurover]

265/75s are 0.5" smaller in diameter than 235/85s.

You could always run 285/75s at the rear...

[Chad]

Hey mate i have the specs in front of me?

Not sure if they are wrong.

Is from tyre manufacturer, States 235/85/16 Diameter 807mm

265/75/16 Diameter 802mm

285/75/16 Diameter 830mm

I didn't think the 5mm would worry me?


or Calculating it...


235 x .85 = 199.75
199.75 x 2 = 399.5
399.5 + 406.4 = 805.9mm


265 x .75 = 198.75
198.75 x 2 = 397.5
397.5 + 406.4 = 803.9mm


Maybe some tyre brands are different?

I hope these ones i am buying are correct in their calculations.

I could be wrong, let me know.

Thanks Chad

[bee utey]

Hey mate i have the specs in front of me?

Not sure if they are wrong.

Is from tyre manufacturer, States 235/85/16 Diameter 807mm

265/75/16 Diameter 802mm

285/75/16 Diameter 830mm

I didn't think the 5mm would worry me?


or Calculating it...


235 x .85 = 199.75
199.75 x 2 = 399.5
399.5 + 406.4 = 805.9mm


265 x .75 = 198.75
198.75 x 2 = 397.5
397.5 + 406.4 = 803.9mm


Maybe some tyre brands are different?

I hope these ones i am buying are correct in their calculations.

I could be wrong, let me know.

Thanks Chad

What you have to understand is that centre diffs work every time you go around a corner anyway so a few % won't wreck it overnight. Now if you were touring Oz in this thing I would say no but this is a toy and you will probably be fine with it until you break something else from youthful exhuberance.:D:D:D

[isuzurover]

Hey mate i have the specs in front of me?

Not sure if they are wrong.

Is from tyre manufacturer, States 235/85/16 Diameter 807mm

265/75/16 Diameter 802mm

285/75/16 Diameter 830mm

I didn't think the 5mm would worry me?


or Calculating it...


235 x .85 = 199.75
199.75 x 2 = 399.5
399.5 + 406.4 = 805.9mm


265 x .75 = 198.75
198.75 x 2 = 397.5
397.5 + 406.4 = 803.9mm


Maybe some tyre brands are different?

I hope these ones i am buying are correct in their calculations.

I could be wrong, let me know.

Thanks Chad

That will probably be OK if they are that close in measurement. What brand? Just from personal experience with bfgs - my 235s measured ~32" fitted, my mates 265s measured 31.5 fitted (both on a 7" disco rim).

A 7.50x16 would be even skinnier on the front.

[VladTepes]

I don't "get" Land Rover drag cars / hot rods etc.
Then again, I don't "get" people who convert Cadillacs to 4wd either (there was one doing the rounds years ago).

Still as they say "Whatever floats your boat" !

Chad
I can"t help but notice the lack of pics in this thread ? Is the project "in progress" If so... don't leave us hanging !

Oh and if you put your location in your profile it can help people answer questions for you like where to get such and such, so it's handy to do.

Good luck with it.

Cheers

[Chad]

Drag car is built, it on another thread on here...

I can take some of the Hot Rod one, very soon, probably over the weekend...

Will take a few months to finish, but on the way.

Thanks Chad

I also have a new 04 Dual Cab Defender, that does me for the BUSH, Fraser Island, and the Beach trips.

Guess i just like different stuff, and always have Loved Landys, would be a Boring world if we all liked the same things, and to be Honest, I couldn't be bothered doind an Overpriced, Ford/Chev even old International Utes/trucks are worth a mint. I will probably finish this Project for between 5k-8k. including the Costs of the Purchase, whaich i cannot even buy a Rusted out Body, less engine box etc...

The landies even have a V8 standard, and what a bonus for me, i aint expecting this to be quick, or anything special, but something I can have a bit of a Sunday drive, use to Tow the race car at the drags, and Keep me busy in the shed.

To a full 4wder I could understand the idea of why bother, but then again, some people also enjoy Golfing, but to be honest, the only ball i am Chasing around a paddock, is if my Dog can't find it.

By the way, Im in Bungendore NSW 30 mins East towards Batemens bay.

Chad

[DiscoDan]

I feel the same about golf, stuffs a good walk.

Chad,

It sounds great, I do like the rat rods as well. They always in my opinion look like a project still in work, plus you save some money on paint jobs.

Would love to see photos.

Danny

[VladTepes]

I've always said that a gold course is a waste of a perfectly good rifle range.

Rat rods are good - I've always thought why not use chalk board paint then you can change the colour whenever the mood strikes you (and until it rains).

[DiscoSaffa]

Chad

This thread has made my lunch hour...... Gotta love it when things get heated, and also gotta love somebody doing something different with the green oval.....

Not my thing for sure (or a lot of others around here it would seem).:D if I had my way it would be 35 inch muddies, bar work all around etc etc..... That said, if it has a green oval on it, I love it..... would be absolutely awesome to head down to the drag track one day and see a 109 smoke a falcon......

I have searched your threads for the pics, with no joy...... would love to see what this rig looks like! After all it is the :rulez:

and as for Golf...... nuff said!

[Redback]

I've always said that a gold course is a waste of a perfectly good rifle range.

Rat rods are good - I've always thought why not use chalk board paint then you can change the colour whenever the mood strikes you (and until it rains).

Was this a typo?

BUT

Was it Gold Coast

OR

Golf Coarse

Either way it's true:wasntme:
































Baz;)

[VladTepes]

Umm yeah golf course.

And your right - both ways !

[gromit]

Saw this in Country Victoria a year or so ago.

Not my style but someone has spend some time & money on it.......


Colin

[disco2hse]

Saw this in Country Victoria a year or so ago.

Not my style but someone has spend some time & money on it.......


Colin

Looks kind of..... uummmmm


Soviet.

[DiscoSaffa]

Saw this in Country Victoria a year or so ago.

Not my style but someone has spend some time & money on it.......


Colin

At least they retained the front recovery points...... :)

[Chad]

i love it.....

has a GT badge too, I thought it was a HOLDEN chassised vehicle..

Would be great if it EVEN had a Ford...

Chad

Wish it was for sale, save me a lot of HASSLE and Money

Chad

[isuzurover]

I sold the front end panels (guards, bonnet, rad, doors, etc...) from a Stage 1 V8 once to a guy in Brisbane who was planning to put them on a holden panel van chassis.