The R380 in Aus

[5teve]

Hi Guys

Been reading through my landy mags and notice ashcroft are offering an r380 cooler.

Looking throught the details for the deefer (2002) via microcat it says my vehicle has uprated transmission, not sure what that means tho..

My question is... do the r380's over here have a cooler?

Thanks

Steve

[Bundalene]

We have an 06 Defender and have had a 99 Defender with R380's in the past. Both these have had oil cooler lines to the front of the engine block and loop back, or the lines are actually the cooler.

We also have a TD5 Disco with an R380 and this does have an oil cooler.

Erich

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Steve

In the Euro Zone, R380 don't have any external cooling and (at least in the UK) have a reputation for cooking the gearset, particularly when used with heavy loads over distance UK style. (I don't know what that means, but I suspect that "long distance" in England would be the equivalent of Sydney to Penrith in less than 2 days. :twisted: )

When you compare a R380 (or even LT77) externally with one of the US light truck boxes such as the New Process or New Venture boxes there is a world of difference in size and therefore oil capacity.

IMHO, if you plan long distance trips (Aust. Standards) or towing heavy loads, then I would be supplementing the external cooler pipes with an actual cooler element, such as one used for an auto-trans. No one in Australia ever complains that their transmission fluid was too cool after a long drive.

Diana

[PAT303]

Mine doesn't have a cooler and has been all over Oz and I've never put a spanner on it.If people put as much time into correct maintenance practises as they did in believing old wives tales there vehicles would be better for it. Pat

[lardy]

Mine doesn't have a cooler and has been all over Oz and I've never put a spanner on it.If people put as much time into correct maintenance practises as they did in believing old wives tales there vehicles would be better for it. Pat

pat could i set about my gearbox do ya reckon its got the 2-3 selection thing going on and some backlash .....what are your thoughts?
Or would i be better buying a new one.
Dont worry about the p.m. i sent ya i sussed it out by myself and after a little dance around the drive i cracked on with some other jobs lol:D

[Andyb43]

Euro spec has a bypass pipe on the side of the gearbox.
The ROW spec has a thermostatically controlled takeoff instead of the pipe.

It is an easy job to fit the thermostat then 2 hoses to a Mocal or the Land Rover oil cooler. both parts are available or use the Mocal matrix cooler.

They are mounted in front of all the Rads secured between the V bars behind the grill.

The British Army Wolfs have them as standard. We fitted one before we traveled and personally are happy with a bit of preventative maintenance. Its up to you.

Heres the link

Transmission & drivetrain (http://www.landroveradventure.co.uk/site/Preparation/Entries/2009/11/19_Transmission_%26_drivetrain.html)

Just out of interest we approached Ashcroft's 3 years asking for a kit they didn't sell one so helped us out by supplying the takeoff thermostat good to see them selling the kit.

[PAT303]

pat could i set about my gearbox do ya reckon its got the 2-3 selection thing going on and some backlash .....what are your thoughts?
Or would i be better buying a new one.
Dont worry about the p.m. i sent ya i sussed it out by myself and after a little dance around the drive i cracked on with some other jobs lol:D

Mine got a bit cranky at 400,000K's but Redline MTL fixed it right up.Try it and see. Pat

[lardy]

Mine got a bit cranky at 400,000K's but Redline MTL fixed it right up.Try it and see. Pat
Sorry to be dumb Pat but I am just like it lol Is that a product like morleys oil additive ?? cheers mate

[camel_landy]

Mine doesn't have a cooler and it too has been all over Oz... :D

The R380s run fine without the cooler (even under extended heavy loads) as long as you use the correct oil.

M

[Psimpson7]

Steve

In the Euro Zone, R380 don't have any external cooling and (at least in the UK) have a reputation for cooking the gearset,

Hey Diana,

Where did you hear that? Ive never heard of them cooking gearsets.

Mine hasnt got the oilcooler either, and has done extended heavy towing back home and been half round Oz!

I do agree that adding a cooler is not a bad idea however.

Rgds
Pete

[PAT303]

Mine doesn't have a cooler and it too has been all over Oz... :D

The R380s run fine without the cooler (even under extended heavy loads) as long as you use the correct oil.

M

It did all it's Oz touring running ATF.I ran transmax M for 400K and then changed to MTL 27K ago.Never had an issue until 400K was on it and then it got notchy when hot. Pat

[PAT303]

Sorry to be dumb Pat but I am just like it lol Is that a product like morleys oil additive ?? cheers mate

Don't ever think you are dumb or are asking a dumb question Lardy,MTL is a Redline oil that is made with high shear/load and high temp additives and I used it after working on Tojo's as they have a lot of drivetrain issues and MTL seems to be the best oil for them,the R380 doesn't have any design issues so the oil again seems to work even better in them.You will need two bottles of oil and it will set you back about $90,it's worth every cent. Pat

[Bush65]

When I put an R380 in my rangie I fitted an oil cooler.

My disco has an R380 without a cooler. I use Castrol Syntrans (fully synthetic, manual transmission fluid) in it, but the oil appears to deteriorate (dark colour possibly indicating too much heat), and is changed more often than I would like.

The following quote is from the Ashcroft Transmissions web site:


Cooling

It is not abnormal for the R 380 to run quite hot and this often results on either baulking or sticky shifts which can often be improved by either an oil additive or different oil. On the short stick boxes or it can cause the actual gearstick pivot ball to get tight in it"s socket which you can improve by stripped, cleaning oiling and replacing.

If you feel your unit is running too hot then bear in mind Landrover make for 2 main markets, Europe and Rest of World (ROW), the ROW spec TD5 Defender and Disco gearboxes are oil cooled but Europe spec are not, there is some debate as to whether they should be, especially if you live in south Spain or Italy Etc.

[PAT303]

Thats the conditions MTL is designed for. Pat

[rick130]

I know of one TD5 130 towing a van (and the 130 grossed at over 3.5 tonnes) that cooked it's gearbox in the NT on a set of 45*+ days and it was running Syntrans, which is slightly heavier than MTL. (and I found MTL would thin too much in very hot conditions, noticeable for baulky changes and extra gear rattle when too hot)

I think that the Wolfs running a large cooler on the R380 behind a 300Tdi says something.

[PAT303]

That's as extreme as it gets Rick,in those conditions any vehicle will suffer.We had a week of 42-46 degree temps here last summer and most of the vehicles including the site machines ran hot,the fact that the Tdi towed that weight in that heat without overheating says something too. Pat

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Hey Diana,

Where did you hear that? Ive never heard of them cooking gearsets.

Mine hasnt got the oilcooler either, and has done extended heavy towing back home and been half round Oz!

I do agree that adding a cooler is not a bad idea however.

Rgds
PetePete

The issue was discussed on the forward control site in the UK, a number of members fitted a variety of V8 and TDi /R380 combinations and they suggest that the boxes were cooking. One member actually suggested the 2nd gear, but I couldn't understand that scenario, unless they were talking about the second gearset being the 5th/O-D set.

The extra weight of the forward controls would put more stress on the R380 but I suspect, they didn't fit the external coolers as the boxes were removed from UK discos without coolers or cooler pipes.

Diana

[ugu80]

Running Penrite 80/90 gear oil in my R380 g/box (no oil cooler) for a '95 130 Defender. Used for touring/camping, never used for towing. What's the verdict. Should I change it for something else?

Appreciate your thoughts.

[rick130]

Running Penrite 80/90 gear oil in my R380 g/box (no oil cooler) for a '95 130 Defender. Used for touring/camping, never used for towing. What's the verdict. Should I change it for something else?

Appreciate your thoughts.

Geez, that'd be a cranky change on a cold morn :eek:

Bear in mind the original oil in your gearbox was a Dex II ATF with a viscosity around 7cSt@100*C, your Penrite oil is double that viscosity at that temp (not necessarily a bad thing but.....

....at low temps your stuff is like treacle, at 40*C Penrite 80/90 is 142cSt, Castrol Syntrans 75W-85 (a very good oil in the R380) is 64.4cSt, Redline MTL 75W-80 is 56.2cSt and the oil that superseded ATF as the factory fill, Caltex/Texaco MTF94 75W-80 is 53.2.
An average ATF is around 35cSt at that temp.

Some trick oils like Motul Gear 300 are even thinner than Syntrans below 20*C while still falling into the 75W-90 viscosity range but it's really big $$$$.

If you plotted a curve as the temperature drops below 40* of your oil and the ones I've listed above it would become even more divergent. Those oils by their nature have high Viscosity Index's, in a nutshell the hotter they get the less they thin, or to put it another way, the colder they get from operating temp, the less they thicken. Your oil by it's nature thickens more as it gets colder.

Get rid of that 80/90 as quickly as you can coming into the cooler weather, the internal pump in the gearbox will thank you. ;)

[ugu80]

I thank you muchly Rick130, as does my gearbox.