TD5 or new 2.4 ??

[zem]

Hi Guys,

I'm investigating the reliability of a Defender as I am keen to tour Oz and currently my 1995 Range Rover P38 (which I love) simply has too many electrics/ creature comforts for me to be confident to go too far from civilisation.

I'm new to the 'Fender world and keen to hear of what to look out for when buying a used truck. I want the new facia and air con (2007 or newer right?) but would love to find out what else is updated in the 'bonnet scoop' models.

My heart is with Land Rover but reliability worries me.
Am I safer buying a Landcruiser for a trip around Oz? :wasntme:

Please sell me the benefits of the Defender - both TD5 and the new one.

PS: What is the Puma?

Thanks guys!!

[stig0000]

first up,,, you dont own a rangie unless u got pics:D:D:p:wasntme:

but the fender engine war will forever go on,, me personally i have a td5 defender,, and its been around aus a few times,, and most of that towing a offroad van, done all the trips like the cape/simpson all them and never missed a beat,

i think the td5 has just the right amount of elecs on it, it has just enough, as there are only a very few electrical things that will stop a td5, so my personal preference is the td5, i allso work on landrovers for a job and find the puma (07-current) defender has alot more problems with the drive line,(engine, gearboxs, transfers,), but allso in general,

even stuped things like the a/c on the puma frezzes up so it stops working after 20mins, and clutches not making it to 20k;);) allso the quality control has massively gone down in the last few yrs of the defenders, like i no they have panel gaps, but a battery box that has half a inch gap on one side looking right at the ground??

but i love all defenders, but would i buy a puma, no:(;);)

but no doubt this will be a long thread:D:D

[JohnR]

Hmmm,

Difficult choice you have here. Now even more difficult is to try and remain unbias....

If you were buying the car and heading out in a few weeks I'd go the LCruiser. No time to sort it and plenty of places to get it sorted on the way.

If you were heading out in six months time I'd buy a TD5 or a second hand sorted 2.4L (Puma). These cars would both have had most of the bugs sorted and be good to go after a few months of prep.

If you had more time up your sleave and enjoy making / creating you own peice of machinary art. Go the new Puma.

Any one of the 3 vehicles are capable of long distance touring and don't be fooled into thinking that the new Toyotas are as reliable as the old ones.

The new Puma's are great. Mine has nearly 70,000km on the clock, a lot of them very hard miles. Cape York, Faser Island, Central NSW. Lots of towing both camper trailer and race car trailer all over the country.

I've added loads of extras to mine and had very few failures. And not one failure has caused the vehicle to stop. All have been things that when I get time or next service to get them fixed.

Hard choice but as Stig0000 said, this could be a very long thread. Good luck trying to keep a clear mind :)

p.s. A Puma is the code name they used when developing the MY07 Defenders engine and for some reason it has stuck as a name. Funny enough in England they tend to call them TDCI engined Defenders?? I like Puma, their Black and Cuddley !

Cheers,

[PAT303]

I'd get a puma. Pat

[Psimpson7]

In all honesty I would try and get a 2005/6 td5

Rgds
Pete

[Yorkshire_Jon]

If you want the new dash then you have to get the puma engine - there are no TD5s with that dash - that, the engine and gearbox are the main differences.

Puma advantages.
lower 1st gear if you do a lot of towing
air-con that works!
nicer dash arrangement
nicer gearbox

TD5 advantages
Stronger rear diff (the puma & TD5 rear diff's are different)
less electronics
engine is capable of delivering more power without affecting reliability


Having dealt a lot with LRs in the UK, my personal choice would be to go for a 2005 / 2006 TD5.

Jon

[Drover]

Go for the PUMA,

I have had a 09my for a just over a year and has 12,000k's (All touring/trips) and only problem has been the latch on the sun roof.

Reliability in the 09my models onwards, is sorted. Like any new model in 2007 there were some problems, but nothing that hasn't been sorted out by the owners by now.

The finish is as good if not better than any previous models and I don't know about the 1/2 inch of gap in the battery box ? or other panels ? Mine certainly hasn't got any problems in that area or I should say more than any other D’Fers models.

The engine pulls like a train. The 6 speed gear box is sweat, something you won't get any in previous D'Fers.

PUMA’s are no more reliant on the Electrical systems, than TD5 models other than ABS and Traction control.

The benefits and advances in the PUMA model substantially outweigh any negatives that you might hear in this thread.

[SVX37]

My 2cents worth...

Puma guys will say buy a Puma!:)
TD5 guys will say buy a TD5 (cause they secretly want a Puma and want to sell you theirs!):p
County guys (I like them, but there are some of them that will tell you not to buy either and to buy a County! Yawn!):wasntme:
In fact, there is is member on here that is quite anti Puma & TD5 (he is best ignored in large doses!):wasntme:


Either way, it is the history of the car which is more important than anything else.

A Puma or a TD5 will both do the job, but all bias aside, the Puma will do it with more quietness and comfort, with superior air-conditioning, and a far better more modern dash. The engine and 6 speed gearbox is very well mated.

If you a scared of your 4WD breaking down (any brand) on any trip, my adivce is stay at home.:wasntme:

Ultimately, test drive both and you decide as it is your money and your decision that you will have to live with - not ours!

Good luck!

[stig0000]

If you a scared of your 4WD breaking down (any brand) on any trip, my adivce is stay at home.:wasntme:



so true:D

[stig0000]

[QUOTE=SVX37;1237271]
In fact, there is is member on here that is quite anti Puma & TD5 (he is best ignored in large doses!):wasntme:



QUOTE]
i havent seen him on here in awhile,,:o
starting to miss him:angel::wasntme:

then again maby not:D:p

[PAT303]

Totally agree with the above post,if your worried about breaking down don't go.Try both and buy the one you like,remember you have to live with it after the trip.My pick is still the puma. Pat

[rovercare]

I wouldn't have either:p

But in all seriousness, the joys of a late TD5, is all common problems have been seen and dealt with, so if you were to allow yourself and extra 3k after purchase at a rover specialist to "go over everything, no expense spared" or do it yourself, oil pump bolt, oil in loom, chain tensioner etc etc, not that they have many common problems:angel: and once that's done, buy a few cable ties and saddles and spend a day in the engine bay fitting everything properly, and fit atleast a low coolant alarm, you'd get a pretty reliable unit:)


Oh don't forget a spare fuel pump




TPS




Crank angle sensor




Nanocom






:wasntme:

[PAT303]

Or buy an Isuzu and take a spare fan belt,rad hoses,wheel bearing kit,a uni,water pump,filters etc etc.Same crap different smell. Pat

[rovercare]

Or buy an Isuzu and take a spare fan belt,rad hoses,wheel bearing kit,a uni,water pump,filters etc etc.Same crap different smell. Pat

They are all things you'd take regardless of vehicle....well not the water pump:p

I'd travel in anything to be honest, if you break down, its part the fun, makes for a great story:D

[ugu80]

Why has no one mentioned that the 300tdi is the best Landrover ever made!

[dullbird]

I'd travel in anything to be honest, if you break down, its part the fun, makes for a great story:D

and a short holiday :D..which quite often are the cheapest :p

[PAT303]

Why has no one mentioned that the 300tdi is the best Landrover ever made!

Because you'll open a can of worms. Pat

[Sleepy]

I would suggest buy a new Puma and enjoy your tour.:D


oh, and take a SATPHONE with the Land Rover assist number ;)



(P.S. - I drive a td5:p)

[dullbird]

I would suggest buy a new Puma and enjoy your tour.:D


oh, and take a SATPHONE
with the Land Rover assist number ;)



(P.S. - I drive a td5:p)
If you owned a puma you would know its on the inside of the windscreen:p

[Ohlins]

Have a wee peep here to get some info...deals with common problems and fixes in the td5 motor...

www.discovery2.co.uk/Faults and Fixes - articles (http://www.discovery2.co.uk/faultsandfixes.html)

Here too,to find the same thing with the Puma

Defender2 - Index (http://www.defender2.net/forum/)

:)

[one_iota]

If you owned a puma you would know its on the inside of the windscreen:p

I'd hadn't noticed it there :eek:

It's on the side of the driver's window on mine.

But I guess you've memorised it by now ;).

[dullbird]

yes I know exactly where it is:D same place up in the corner;)

[spudboy]

I've got both TD5 and Puma, so maybe that make me unbiased.

For a year touring around Australia I'd say without hesitation go the PUMA. Yes, there were issues with the early release models, but then there are equally issues with the TD5 (oil in loom, oil pump bolt, etc).

Just driving the Puma should convince you:
- quieter
- 6 speed box is magic
- altogether more civilised
- aircon works
- more power (unless you chip the TD5)
I reckon there's no argument.

Be careful with fueling with the Puma engine though - they do NOT like water in the fuel. Might be worth considering an uprated fuel filter for outback fuel stops. I've got an extra fuel filter on my fuel tank breather so that water can't get sucked back into the tank in heavy rain/deep crossings. Cost $15 and is cheap insurance.

HTH
David

[Gav110]

Objectively speaking, I think the lower first gearing, better low down torque and the fantastic anti-stall feature make the Puma superior (along with better interior and aircon). The TD5 revs higher and can be tuned to rev like a V6 (I had the top of the range Bruce Davis treatment on my old one) but the Puma has better lower rev torque delivery with less fuss - which in the real world is more useful.

The anti-stall in particular is a huge boon to the user who frequently lugs heavy loads - it has to be driven to be believed. Just ease of the clutch, no gas, and watch it confidently and in a measured pace 'walk away' from starts on inclines (even loaded and in hi range).

Also, on my TD5 I found the noise and vibration of 5th gear highway so painful I fitted a GKN overdrive. No need in the Puma.

Finally, comfort and safety of the second (not to mention third) row seats - no comparison. Add to that better cabin airflow (esp. key on 110s with lots of passengers) and lower NVH levels and it's no comparison.

Especially now that all major issues are known, I see buying an 09 or 10 model a relatively safe proposition - esp. if you have a good track record with your dealer.

Good luck mate - whatever you choose you'll love the Defender.

[dullbird]

I was pretty sure the Puma doesn't have anti stall in high range only low....

[series3]

cast your eyes over this thread as well, questions my dad was asking before he put an order in for a new one. Picking her up next week!

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/88352-td5-vs-puma-thoughts.html

[Gav110]

I was pretty sure the Puma doesn't have anti stall in high range only low....

It does - I've tried it. Pointed it up a 30 degree concrete ramp, loaded with passengers returning to dealer's yard (Alto, Artarmon) - eased the clutch out, no fuel - just idled up the ramp fuelling itself up, no shudder.

That MUST be handy offroad...

Will know soon enough - found out today I take delivery in late May !

[Naks]

It does - I've tried it. Pointed it up a 30 degree concrete ramp, loaded with passengers returning to dealer's yard (Alto, Artarmon) - eased the clutch out, no fuel - just idled up the ramp fuelling itself up, no shudder.

Indeed! pretty hard to stall in in 2nd high even!

Although there are a couple of stupid features on the Puma:

1. No cabin motion detector for the alarm
2. You can't switch on the headlights if the engine is not running.

[dullbird]

It does - I've tried it. Pointed it up a 30 degree concrete ramp, loaded with passengers returning to dealer's yard (Alto, Artarmon) - eased the clutch out, no fuel - just idled up the ramp fuelling itself up, no shudder.

That MUST be handy offroad...

Will know soon enough - found out today I take delivery in late May !

you sure that's not just the car driving its self up on tick over which any diesel will do? any diesel can be driven like that and it will walk it self up a hill...I could show you in a 200tdi.

However I would be interested to see if you put it in an offroad situation and get the same findings because it is when the load changes on the engine significantly that you will find it has anti stall..

I know for a fact it doesn't have anti stall in low second and I was almost certain that it doesn't have it in high at all....I'm happy to be proven wrong but I honestly don't think I'am.

another test would be if you think you have anti stall in in high first get out of the car leave it in gear and then start it by reaching across for the key watch all the passengers head butt the window :Rolling:

[spudboy]

I think it does work in high range. My shed is on a steep-ish driveway, and to drive in I can clutch out and use no accelerator and the revs jump up automatically. Never tried testing it off road in high range though.....

[dullbird]

Ok then come someone please do me a favour I can't because the battery is out of the defender as well as other bits as Ian is installing an SC80.

can someone please go start there puma with no feet on the pedals and tell me whether it stalls? if it stalls then it does not have anti stall (as it is my understanding this is part of the anti stall feature)and people are confusing the normal engine management with anti stall..

like I said I'm happy to be proved wrong but being as though I have stalled my car in high first at the lights more than once I don't think I'am..

and report back here:)

[one_iota]

Well I've tried that and it didn't stall....

Feet nowhere near the pedals.... in neutral ...no issue :p;)

I wonder if anti stall and engine management aren't the same thing?

Have you noticed when coasting in neutral that the engine maintains about 850 rpm and when the vehicle is stationary then the revs fall to 750 rpm. That is in high range. In low range the coasting RPM is just over 1000 rpm.

My driving style has changed. Whereas in the Disco I used the handbrake on hill starts. Now I leave the foot brake on and let the clutch out. The Disco would have stalled under those circumstances. Just as well as the handbrake on the Defender as we all know is next door to out of reach.

I think the same thing is happening in low and high ranges just less obvious. It's easier to stall the vehicle in high range because of the ratios.

[dullbird]

Well I've tried that and it didn't stall....

Feet nowhere near the pedals.... in neutral ...no issue :p;)

I wonder if anti stall and engine management aren't the same thing?

Have you noticed when coasting in neutral that the engine maintains about 850 rpm and when the vehicle is stationary then the revs fall to 750 rpm. That is in high range. In low range the coasting RPM is just over 1000 rpm.

My driving style has changed. Whereas in the Disco I used the handbrake on hill starts. Now I leave the foot brake on and let the clutch out. The Disco would have stalled under those circumstances. Just as well as the handbrake on the Defender as we all know is next door to out of reach.

I think the same thing is happening in low and high ranges just less obvious.
It's easier to stall the vehicle in high range because of the ratios.

but isn't that the point of anti stall it should be extremely hard to stall, I'm not going to say impossible to stall as you can still stall the car in low first its just very very hard you have to put it in the right circumstances..

I find its easy to stall in high first by simply coming off the clutch to quick with not enough revs, on a gentle incline...to me that says that high first doesn't have anti stall and what in fact people are experiencing is the joys of electric engine/fuel management where fuelling is better and allows idle walking of the car under perhaps steeper/tougher circumstances...more so than a mechanical governor

I can't find any info that suggests either way whether it does or doesn't only what people have written on forums....But until someone actually shows me I will honestly believe it doesn't.

I will now have to test it though....and I may tomorrow if the bank outside my house is steep enough and I get home early enough for it still to be light:)

[Naks]

can someone please go start there puma with no feet on the pedals and tell me whether it stalls? if it stalls then it does not have anti stall (as it is my understanding this is part of the anti stall feature)and people are confusing the normal engine management with anti stall..

This should convince you?

YouTube- Land Rover Defender Towing a 12 Tonne Truck.

[kenleyfred]

Impressive, but it doesn't say it's in high range.

I have climbed some serious hills in high with no feet on pedals. I believe it works. Having said that I too have stalled more than once at traffic lights and every time in really soft stuff when I have tried to test the anti stall.
Kenley

[dullbird]

Impressive,
but it doesn't say it's in high range.

I have climbed some serious hills in high with no feet on pedals. I believe it works. Having said that I too have stalled more than once at traffic lights and every time in really soft stuff when I have tried to test the anti stall.
Kenley

exactly and I was pretty sure I was told low first only by john that does land rover driver training here in OZ when we gave him our car to teach other how to use it.

[spudfan]

When I collected the Puma I drove down in the 200tdi. I stalled the Puma twice driving her out of the dealers yard. This would have been in high range as Dullbird has said. I put it down to coming off the much lighter clutch in the Puma too quickly. I was expecting it to be the same as the 200tdi. Once I got the feel of the pedal everything was ok. Have not done it since.

[Gav110]

I think we're missing the point here - it's called ANTI-stall, not "stall-proof".

If you drop the clutch heavily it will likely stall.

And yes, my understanding is that anti-stall is really just sophisticated engine management - it just fuels the engine sufficient to maintain progress - but it is NOT marketed as stall-proof.

Again my understanding is that anti-stall was popularised in Europe years ago as a fitment on manuals (they are the majority over automatics in countries like France) - improving not only driveability but also safety - the europeans are mad about not hanging around at the lights or when entering an autoroute...

[TimNZ]

When I collected the Puma I drove down in the 200tdi. I stalled the Puma twice driving her out of the dealers yard. This would have been in high range as Dullbird has said. I put it down to coming off the much lighter clutch in the Puma too quickly. I was expecting it to be the same as the 200tdi. Once I got the feel of the pedal everything was ok. Have not done it since.

I'm glad I'm not the only one that stalled in the dealers yard!! :D

[Tombie]

I would suggest take the P38...

Get a BBS faultmate, give the thing the best going over of its life..

Then take it and use the thing :p

[Tombie]

I think we're missing the point here - it's called ANTI-stall, not "stall-proof".

If you drop the clutch heavily it will likely stall.

And yes, my understanding is that anti-stall is really just sophisticated engine management - it just fuels the engine sufficient to maintain progress - but it is NOT marketed as stall-proof.

Again my understanding is that anti-stall was popularised in Europe years ago as a fitment on manuals (they are the majority over automatics in countries like France) - improving not only driveability but also safety - the europeans are mad about not hanging around at the lights or when entering an autoroute...

Amazing how everyone goes on about this...

The TD5 has the same feature built in, and does the same thing. We tested it!

The Puma does it even nicer too, with its lower 1st gear.

The thing with anti-stall is that once you mvoe the throttle the ECU's change from idle (where the anti-stall program can work) to 'drive' where the ECU is taking driver input... This is where you can stall the vehicle.


Anti-stall cannot make up for poor / rapid clutch movements, but can assist in hill starts, hill climbs etc.. I've driven entire climbs on the anti-stall feature...


I still reckon take the P38....


But I would consider a Puma OR a late model TD5 without hesitation...

[dullbird]

I think we're missing the point here - it's called ANTI-stall, not "stall-proof".

If you drop the clutch heavily it will likely stall.


And yes, my understanding is that anti-stall is really just sophisticated engine management - it just fuels the engine sufficient to maintain progress - but it is NOT marketed as stall-proof.

Again my understanding is that anti-stall was popularised in Europe years ago as a fitment on manuals (they are the majority over automatics in countries like France) - improving not only driveability but also safety - the europeans are mad about not hanging around at the lights or when entering an autoroute...

If this is pointed at me gavsta then you haven't read by posts above..
you will clearly see that I have never said stall proof;) ever!!

But you are obivoulsy getting frustrated at me being a non believer:D..
i'm only going on what I have been told and what I have experienced on my day to day driving and what was spoken about at the land rover sponsored training course....

I will not say anything further and I will as soon as I have some spare time go and test this remarkable anit stall when I get a free moment:)....and

If i'm wrong I will come back on here and say i'm wrong and happily except it.:D

[Allan]

I tried my anti stall in off road conditions up a fairly steep soft incline in high range and it just slowly climbed. I could hear the changes in engine sounds so I assume it is be working in that range

Allan

[dullbird]

I tried my anti stall in off road conditions up a fairly steep soft incline in high range and it just slowly climbed. I could hear the changes in engine sounds so I assume it is be working in that range

Allan

thanks Allan

thats what I wanted to hear some experiences of someone that had used it in off road situation.

if it does have it then I guess its just not no where near as good as low first hence my sceptisim of it not having it.

I still want to test it in my own car though. Not that I dont believe you allan, just to convince myself in my own car:).

[ugu80]

Hi gang. Been following the debate so read up on some on line tests. Nothing definitive but seems to be some sort of general anti-stall program when labouring the engine in the engine management computer plus an extra, u-beaut management program in 1st low for feet & hands off progress in slow going; sort of a steep hill ascent mode. Just 1st low in boggy, steep uphill terrain, feet on the floor and the computer will keep it trudging along. So everybody is right.

Reading the above, I can see I have been of no help at all. I may have just wasted 30 seconds of your life.

[Allan]

As to the question of TD5 or Puma we have both, the TD5 is a 90 and feels nicer around town. It seems a nicer car to drive as a daily drive. On a run the Puma 110 has it by a mile. It will drive all day at 110-120ks and you can at least here a conversation, were the TD5 sounds like its working a little hard. On the TD5 I still have to get used to all that turbo lag something I dont have on the Puma. I do like the sound of the 5 as revs build though, I guess its just taste

Allan

[Loubrey]

Well I did it too!:oops2: Stalled the new 90 twice in the first 1km after I picked it up! It was obviously me and the new clutch because anti stall is not anti idiot!:)

I agree with Allan on the last reply, but I think it's got a lot to do with "running in" and "loosening up". My other half constanly says that she misses Merlot ('98 300Tdi 90),that we had to leave behind in the UK. The fact remains that cars settle in after a certain amount of kilos and it's not really fair on the newby to compare the drive with a 300Tdi with 125000 miles on it. Obviously the older one will be a smoother drive, that is untill the new one loosens up. Another post discussed this at length and the concensus is around 40 000km Pumas start driving smoother.

The bottom line is, I'll drive any Deefer that fits my budget. In the UK it was a weekender because of the fuel cost, so all I could afford was an older 300. I would have driven a TD5 if the Deefer was to be my primary car. I'm fortunate enough to be able to drive a Puma now, but they're all Landies and budget/application should be your only consideration when choosing a model.

[dullbird]

Yes I tried it yesterday up a VERY steep hill.....and much to my surprise it is there:). although not as good as first low and all its trickery,

I'm yet to try it up a steep hill with an obstacle in the way that needs to be tackled.

I have found though it much prefers to have the clutch all the way up before tackling a hill I guess to allow revs to settle (even if it is very quick). As before I tackeled this steep hill I tried another which was much smaller, but I deliberately put the car right at the base of the hill (so no chance for a run up) and came off the clutch realllly slow it started to climb and it then stalled....I guess that's the differences between high first and low first and probably does come down to ratio's at the end of the day like Mahn suggested

[c.h.i.e.f]

there is a chip out for the puma ($900) but i think it takes it to 150hp which is similar to the figures a worked td5 gets:eek: correct me if i am incorrect

this has been a talking point every time a new rover comes out firstly county owners bagged out the tdi's the tdi owners bagged out the td5 (bmw) and now the same for the puma ;) but after having almost all of these except the td5 all that i can say is they are getting better and better !
although i am getting a puma at the end of the month i am still keeping the old county :D for some stupid reason :angel:

[rovercare]

although i am getting a puma at the end of the month i am still keeping the old county :D for some stupid reason :angel:

To drive when the Puma is in the shop? hardly a stupid reason:wasntme:





Sorry:angel:

[eezeetoo]

although i am getting a puma at the end of the month i am still keeping the old county :D for some stupid reason
Sounds perfecly reasonable to me :BigThumb:

[Allan]

Does the late TD5 Defender extreme have anti stall as does the Puma, when moving it around in the drive at home it seems to react in a similer manner. Ive not tried it off road as yet so any imfo would help.

Allan

[dullbird]

apparently the Td5 does have antistall Although I have heard not as refined as the Puma..

not owning a td5 I'm only going on what I have read here

[c.h.i.e.f]

thaks rovercare :D lol

[Bush65]

I don't have a TD5, or Puma, but I'm going to hazard a guess that the main improvement is due to the variable geometry/nozzle turbo on the Puma engine.

Put a similar turbo on a TD5, then compare them - that would be interesting. I don't think they have been improving the engine technology as much as the turbo technology (IIRC the turbo on the V6 3.0 litre is newer technology/generation again).

I have seen other threads/posts on AULRO where people have been expressing hope for the 2.7/3.0 litre V6 in the Defender replacement. IMHO the V6 is too expensive to manufacture and a similar displacement straight 4 with similar technology (common rail injection and variable geometry or 2 stage turbo), will give the performance sought (just not as smooth as a 6 cyl).

[stig0000]

another 2 pumas come in today with clutch probs, and one had the new "uprated" clutch;);) both gear boxes out,

[one_iota]

another 2 pumas come in today with clutch probs, and one had the new "uprated" clutch;);) both gear boxes out,

We'd better not mention the Td5 clutch master cylinder issue or the dual mass flywheel or we'll scare him off both types :p:D

[stig0000]

We'd better not mention the Td5 clutch master cylinder issue or the dual mass flywheel or we'll scare him off both types :p:D

its still the same master cyl LOL, good old landrovers:D

[pc3]

another 2 pumas come in today with clutch probs, and one had the new "uprated" clutch;);) both gear boxes out,

gee I have new puma 130 on the way
'09' run out hope I dont have to many issues. One owner has had an 08 dual cab since new now has 83k and he has not had one problem he says, so some must be fine.

[stig0000]

gee I have new puma 130 on the way
'09' run out hope I dont have to many issues. One owner has had an 08 dual cab since new now has 83k and he has not had one problem he says, so some must be fine.

i hope you dont either, or you will just loose all trust in the car, unfortunately lot of customers have with there pumas:(:(

and yes we have people that have done 60k and virtually no props, but we have a lot of cars that just keep coming back:(,

[5teve]

Does the late TD5 Defender extreme have anti stall as does the Puma, when moving it around in the drive at home it seems to react in a similer manner. Ive not tried it off road as yet so any imfo would help.

Allan

not even the late ones.. the 2002 i have definitly has it.. i can almost drop the clutch and it wont stall, i can drive the boat up the drive (backwards) and its got a big kerb and slope without using the accelerator in Low range and drag the boat off the boatramp without using the accelerator in 2nd low easily, in high range it still does has the feature but not as strong, but still gets the car up the drive kerb with ease... its a pretty hard vehicle to stall...

its nothing different to my old k series rover metro gti tho.. that i could hold on steep hills without using the accelerator as its just the engine management trying to keep the engine running within set parameters..

Steve

[PAT303]

i hope you dont either, or you will just loose all trust in the car, unfortunately lot of customers have with there pumas:(:(

and yes we have people that have done 60k and virtually no props, but we have a lot of cars that just keep coming back:(,

Stig,drama's with duel mass flywheel clutch's are as old as duel mass flywheels.Only engineer's would take a proven design and make it twice as complicated with three times more parts and five times more expensive to repair. Pat

[Disco44]

I've got both TD5 and Puma, so maybe that make me unbiased.

For a year touring around Australia I'd say without hesitation go the PUMA. Yes, there were issues with the early release models, but then there are equally issues with the TD5 (oil in loom, oil pump bolt, etc).

Just driving the Puma should convince you:
- quieter
- 6 speed box is magic
- altogether more civilised
- aircon works
- more power (unless you chip the TD5)
I reckon there's no argument.

Be careful with fueling with the Puma engine though - they do NOT like water in the fuel. Might be worth considering an uprated fuel filter for outback fuel stops. I've got an extra fuel filter on my fuel tank breather so that water can't get sucked back into the tank in heavy rain/deep crossings. Cost $15 and is cheap insurance.

HTH
David

David that I thoroughly agree with.The amount of crap that some outback fuel stops give you is unbelievable.An extra filter is a must.
John.

[Allan]

gee I have new puma 130 on the way
'09' run out hope I dont have to many issues. One owner has had an 08 dual cab since new now has 83k and he has not had one problem he says, so some must be fine.

You will love it. The things are awsum. I wouldn't swap mine for anything. I love driving my wifes 90 TD5 it almost feels like a sports car after the 110, but to live with all week on a long hard and hot drive, the Puma every time.

Allan

[pc3]

David that I thoroughly agree with.The amount of crap that some outback fuel stops give you is unbelievable.An extra filter is a must.
John.

If you use one of these;

Racor Fuel Filter Funnel (http://www.maesco.com/products/racor/r_funnel/r_funnel.html)

will this suffice, also whats LR Warranty say about adding that filter too the breather ?

For $15 sounds like good insurance if LR warranty will still play nice !!

Looking forwards to getting mine but at the same time VERY nervous.......I am not the most mechanically minded person.

[spudboy]

I wouldn't be worrying about the extra filter on the breather affecting your warranty. You are not removing the original LR one, just adding to it. You could detach it in about 2 minutes before you took it into a dealer anyway.

[sashadidi]

If you use one of these;

Racor Fuel Filter Funnel (http://www.maesco.com/products/racor/r_funnel/r_funnel.html)

will this suffice, also whats LR Warranty say about adding that filter too the breather ?

For $15 sounds like good insurance if LR warranty will still play nice !!

Looking forwards to getting mine but at the same time VERY nervous.......I am not the most mechanically minded person.
Yes I use one in New Zealand at it gets some muck (not much each time)