New heart and drive for D2

[CJT]

So after finding a rather large oil leak with the D2 today (I no longer need rust protection there is that much oil on the car) I think I will stop stuffing around with repairs and get the 4.0l V8 rebuilt and stroked to 5.0l with a rebuilt transfer case with CDL.

Can anyone recomend a good company to have this work done in QLD or would I be better off taking the car interstate for this work?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

[CJT]

500HP SHORT MOTOR

5.0 LT STEPPED LINER
SHORT MOTOR
FORGED PISTONS 10 - 1 COMP
TOTAL SEAL RINGS
BILLET 6 INCH STEEL RODS
3.4 INCH STROKER CRANK
DUAL THRUST MAIN BEARINGS
$6900.00
500HP SHORT MOTOR
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/211.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/212.jpg (http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=16&parent3id=19&productid=157#viewimage) https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/04/213.jpg (http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=16&parent3id=19&productid=157#viewimage)

This is one I have been looking at previously.

[Tombie]

You'll love it! :cool:

[TerryO]

I really like the idea of the 5 litre engine as a conversion option for the under powered 4L engines in Disco's but maybe something that is more aimed as a stump puller which would suit off road driving rather then a out and out high revving top end horspower monster.

Chris has said he would also add CDL at the same time so chances are he is planning to use the new 'big engine' for off road usage rather then drag racing, sounds like he is really after a stump puller as well.

One question how can any engine builder claim 500 hp for a short engine?

In my experience of getting high horsepower engines built most of the gains other then adding cubic inches is usually in cylinder head work which often takes up the most time and effort to achieve the right results. Its hard to imagine standard Rover heads allowing such gains even with the size and compression increase spoken off, unless your bolting on a blower then you wouldn't have such high compression or a wild cam.

I'm more then happy to stand corrected if someone can explain to me how this works.

cheers,
Terry

[BigJon]

One question how can any engine builder claim 500 hp for a short engine?

Its hard to imagine standard Rover heads allowing such gains even with the size and compression increase spoken off, unless your bolting on a blower then you wouldn't have such high compression or a wild cam.



Aftermarket heads?
http://www.triumphroverspares.com.au/page.asp?parentid=5&parent2id=16&parent3id=20&productid=70

[CJT]

I really like the idea of the 5 litre engine as a conversion option for the under powered 4L engines in Disco's but maybe something that is more aimed as a stump puller which would suit off road driving rather then a out and out high revving top end horspower monster.

Chris has said he would also add CDL at the same time so chances are he is planning to use the new 'big engine' for off road usage rather then drag racing, sounds like he is really after a stump puller as well.

One question how can any engine builder claim 500 hp for a short engine?

In my experience of getting high horsepower engines built most of the gains other then adding cubic inches is usually in cylinder head work which often takes up the most time and effort to achieve the right results. Its hard to imagine standard Rover heads allowing such gains even with the size and compression increase spoken off, unless your bolting on a blower then you wouldn't have such high compression or a wild cam.

I'm more then happy to stand corrected if someone can explain to me how this works.

cheers,
Terry

I use my D2 almost every day for a variety of uses, Monday to Friday it is a run around car for work and weekends it gets used a bit better either;

4wding (Usually atleast once per month)
Towing Jetski either to Somerset or Rainbow Bay
Soon to be towing 20' ski boat out to Somerset
Towing Dual Axle Trailer for camping etc. with the wife and kids

I am after a motor that has more power than the 4.0l, however lots of torque for offroad use as this is still the main reason I bought the Disco and in turn easier towing especially on hills etc. with the ski boat.

Any ideas on the best setups would be great, due to the money involved I would like to get this right the first time.

Is there a Rover V8 Diesel that would be a relatively simple swap?

[Geedublya]

I think TRS are saying with the right heads and cam this short motor is capable of producing and handling 500hp.

This motor could be a very strong toquey motor with right head and cam combination and I would think that TRS are probably the people to talk to about what that combination should be. Even if the peak output is only 300hp this would be much better than standard

[TerryO]

Hey Chris,

A good recoed top hat 4.6 long engine from TRS might be the go just over half the price of the short 5L yet still has a very healthy increase in torque and HP over the standard 4L.

Edited ...(I should have mentioned that they take your old 4L Thor long engine as an exchange or it costs more.)

If you call them make sure you speak with Phil he is very helpful.

cheers,
Terry

[Pedro_The_Swift]

The email I got from TRS said, with the 4.9 stroker kit,
a 25% increase in torque is expected,,


sort of makes sense if you increase the capacity by 25%:angel:

[Traco]

A short motor - even a 5 litre one - will not produce 500 hp on its own obviously. You need the right cam and, most importantly so far as the Rover V8 is concerned, top of the line cylinder heads. Not stage 4 Rover heads, nor Real Steel's new heads, nor even Buick 300 heads, though the latter will yield over 400 bhp if worked right. It's either Wildcats which also require the matching inlet manifolds and cost several thousands more (and which TRS run on their racing TR8), or the yet to be released but nearing finalisation new TA heads based on the their successful Buick V6 performance heads.

Apparently TRS has taken delivery of the prototypes of the TA heads and have stitched up a deal to distribute them once they reach the production stage. Prices of US$4000 a pair have been mentioned on the BritishV8 Owners forum.

My recommendation is a bulletproof 4 bolt ductile top hat 4.6 long engine from Turner Engineering already fitted with their gas flowed heads and new rocker gear and a high torque cam - should give you about 320 ftlb.

[TerryO]

With the added cost of high performance heads combined with the 5L short motor I don't see to many Discovery owners paying all up around ten grand plus for a new hot rod engine that is better suited to a circuit car rather then a 4x4.

So for most this discussion is purely academic, I guess we end up coming back to a recoed 4.6. It sounds like the Turner engines are the ducks guts but they would still end up being very expensive by the time they are landed here.

Has anyone brought and imported one of their 4.6 recoed performance long engines or their performance cylinder heads?

cheers,
Terry

[Traco]

About UKP3200 for a 4.6 Turner Engineering crate engine (outright no exchange), 9.35:1 pistons with ductile iron flanged liners (the best), built up with gas flowed heads, cam, timing gears, rocker gear and all gaskets and seals needed to complete the build. Then add UKP500 for shipping with UPS and import duties at around 15% of the value of the purchase I think. Delivered to your door in about 10 days.

With the strong Aussie dollar that all adds up to around AUS7.5 to 8k, but that is for virtually a complete new performance engine that you just need to add your existing front cover, water pump, sump and injection system to.

Not cheap I agree but they're supposed to be virtually bulletproof .

You'd easily pay as much if not more than that for a TRS equivalent, not to mention their 5 litre option. And some people have had issues with their workmanship/customer relations skills if you can believe everything you read on the forums.

[Tekno]

I will most likely get flamed for this but here goes, Why not adapt a Chev LS1 or LS2 into a disco? they're a cheap reliable motor with parts and hot up bit availible from your local corner shop.

[Geedublya]

I will most likely get flamed for this but here goes, Why not adapt a Chev LS1 or LS2 into a disco? they're a cheap reliable motor with parts and hot up bit availible from your local corner shop.


That would be my choice if it could be engineered but I don't think they would allow a change from 4.0L to 6.0 L.

[CJT]

You should be able to get it engineered (mate has a GQ with 5.7l) but it would be more work than a 4.6 or 5.0 litre Rover engine.

Chev would need engine mounts, gearbox adapter, possible new crossmember or atleast modified sump, modified wiring etc. etc.

Also you end up with a vehicle that is mixed and matched and could end up with a number of issues that are hard to diagnose due to the amount of changes (as my mate found out with his GQ).

Putting the 4.6litre Rover motor into a D2 is also classed as an owner approved mod from my understanding as the D2 was released with a 4.6l from factory as long as brakes and suspension are changed or upgraded to match the factory equivelant of the larger motor.

In addition the 5.0litre or even 5.2litre by RPI engineering may not be difficult to have approved as I believe they are basically the same block stroked to a larger capacity.

[ozscott]

I have not re-built or built up a Rover V8 but I have done other engines when younger with assistance from my brothers who are both mechanics. Small things add up to a big difference. I know that the Rover V8 is well specified from standard compared to what I was working on (Holden) BUT my thoughts if it were me for a very usable gain versus cost would be to go the 4.6 route but spend some money on the head and manifold - ie ported and polished heads with good valve gear - the right valves for torque, matched billeted camshaft, good quality timing gear, port matched exhaust manifolds, FULL balance including harmonic balancer being balanced, reasonably high compression but not too high so as to reduce off road tractability, and I reckon the difference between that and a stocker 4.0 would be very noticeable and very nice to live with.

Cheers

[Pedro_The_Swift]

Our very own P38aRover went down that very path ozscott,, He seems very happy with it,,, though he doesnt pick V8 RR's or D3's anymore,,,;):p

[ozscott]

...he should pick on the explorer motor V6 versions...
Cheers

[CJT]

Ok, bringing an old post back up to date.

I have spoken to TRS about engine options and they have recomended for my application to go with a 4.6l.

So I am looking at ordering a brand new built 4.6l with reconditioned heads and having the swap over done in by my mechanic in Brisbane.

After talking to them for low speed torque applications there is no point in going for different heads etc. as they only give an increase in the top end of the rev range.

As part of the engine swap I also want to monitor the engine and transmission outputs.

Is there a engine monitor unit that is able to do, I was thinking the EMS1 but I can see any installed with a V8;

Transmission Temp
Transfer Case Temp
Coolent Temp and Level
as well as any other items like oil pressure etc. that should be monitored.

I already have a LED 52mm dual battery guage with low voltage alarm etc.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

or, maybe start with a good 4.6 bare block and add a TRS 4.9 stroker kit,,
and all the 4L bits,,

[TerryO]

Hi CJT,

I take it that when you say a brand new built 4.6 you talking about a crate engine that is not one of their rebuilt 4.6's?

If so just remember that a brand new 4.6 doesn't come with stepped liners.

Grumdriva went through this and he was told by a Land Rover shop that he should buy a new 4.6 as they had fixed the slipped liner problems. His brand new 4.6 got replaced twice, once with crank issues only several thousands k's after being originally fitted and then again after another 40k or so later because of a slipped liner.

He then brought a TRS recond 4.6 rather then going down the path of another new engine with the same potential liner weakness. Warranty did not cover the second 'new crate engine' failure as it was more than a year old so he ended up paying for his new engine twice.

I personally wouldn't buy a new Rover V8 because they don't come with stepped liners and they have not fixed the original problems no matter what they tell you. A recond 4.6 with stepped liners sounds like a good idea though.

Just ask Grumdriva...

cheers,
Terry

[CJT]

Hi CJT,

I take it that when you say a brand new built 4.6 you talking about a crate engine that is not one of their rebuilt 4.6's?

If so just remember that a brand new 4.6 doesn't come with stepped liners.

Grumdriva went through this and he was told by a Land Rover shop that he should buy a new 4.6 as they had fixed the slipped liner problems. His brand new 4.6 got replaced twice, once with crank issues only several thousands k's after being originally fitted and then again after another 40k or so later because of a slipped liner.

He then brought a TRS recond 4.6 rather then going down the path of another new engine with the same potential liner weakness. Warranty did not cover the second 'new crate engine' failure as it was more than a year old so he ended up paying for his new engine twice.

I personally wouldn't buy a new Rover V8 because they don't come with stepped liners and they have not fixed the original problems no matter what they tell you. A recond 4.6 with stepped liners sounds like a good idea though.

Just ask Grumdriva...

cheers,
Terry

I thought about the liner issue after I spoke to them as well.

Would they not put liners in if I asked. They said they actually build the motor for me, so it could be a possibility.

Just when I thought I had it sorted out...

[CJT]

or, maybe start with a good 4.6 bare block and add a TRS 4.9 stroker kit,,
and all the 4L bits,,

Definetely something to think about.

I will talk to TRS again about further options.

[clubagreenie]

TR Spares in Sydney had a 4.6 linered short block for $3500- when I was shopping around. Was good valueby comparison to the others but not as good as the 2K 4.6 I ended up with.

[TerryO]

Definetely something to think about.

I will talk to TRS again about further options.

I'd guess it would cost quite a bit more for them to pull apart a brand new motor and then have it machined for stepped liners and then rebuild the engine.

If I remember rightly your intention is to do some heavy towing, with my D2 V8 the engine gets really hot when towing 2.5 ton, but runs fine when not.

It would seem that high temperatures are what these V8 motors don't like.

Good luck with it.

cheers,
Terry

[ozscott]

There is a good site that I think Pedro has posted up before that sites (with some authority) that the cause of many or most V8 rover failures are cracks in the block (on the outside area of the pot - ie outside the liner) causing overheat and liner movement. Ie its not the liners themselves going first. So...if it were my coin I would want a crack detected 4.6 where it was re-built with new top hat liners, pistons, rings, crank, cam, rods, new or well re-coed heads etc.

Cheers

[GEK064]

Having had the same thought process and going with a new 4.6 without the top hat liners - thinking the 12month new warranty should go someway to help - and knowing that I will do some towing but not much - how does one go ahead and protect a motor from over heating? A larger fan? A larger radiator? Bonnet scoop? What do I need to do to protect my D2 and my wallet?

On a side note...the 4.6 is meant to be the real heart of a D2.

[Pedro_The_Swift]

if you've just spent the $$ on a new engine, i reckon a new rad and hoses is not a great stretch,, then a coolant level and coolant temp monitor would be another level of insurance.
There is a very good one for sale by one of our sponsors:angel::cool:;)