Car show elitists [Archive] - Australian Land Rover Owners

Sprint

2nd May 2010, 07:06 PM

Attended a car show today, not a competitive one, but still a decent sized show for up here.

Now, something that irks me is the number of people with rare and desirable cars who restore them to the nth degree, keep them in a climate controlled bubble and only get them out to drool over in a semi narcotic stupor......

Why? Because the snobs and elitists have driven up the prices of the cars that I and many others would dearly love to own, drive and enjoy, not just look at.... I have no problem telling such people that, in all honesty, they deserve to be stripped of thier cars, simply because if you dont use something in the way it was intended, you can never appreciate its true value and you have no right to deprive someone else of that pleasure.

Dont get me started on the "investment" type people.....

To give you an idea, one lady was there with her (and her husbands) XW GT, very well presented and restored to a standard which seemed to me to be better than new, everything that should be cad plated was nice and shiny, nothing showed any signs of corrosion, and there she was, out with a spray bottle and cloth cleaning what looked good enough to eat off already.....

My god she got cranky when I asked her why she'd gone to such efforts, only to use a non genuine ryco oil filter.....

Part of her tirade even included a shot at me having the gall to comment when I was wearing a Holden shirt..... The look on her face was priceless when I told her that like her, I owned a Ford, but I work for holden, and I was wearing the shirt to get under the skin of people like her!

Knowing that I was going to have to contend with such people, and that my car, courtesy of its regular use and high mileage has more than its share of bumps and scratches, I didnt intend on displaying my car, but changed my mind on friday night with a decision to display it with a notice that was worded as to put down anyone who didnt drive thier vehicles regularly.

Tattered and scarred,
Far from pristine
Before you today
Is no garage queen

If you think it neglected
You might be forgiven
Unlike some nearby
It is daily driven

Of polish and trophies
It hasn't a care
Just give it the highway
Its home is out there.

Suprisingly enough, I recieved more than a few positive comments!

Rayngie

2nd May 2010, 07:52 PM

What...you mean people can't do what they want with their own cars??

Bigbjorn

2nd May 2010, 08:10 PM

Well said. No point in having one if you don't drive it and enjoy it.

The prestigious Pebble Beach Concours took positive action a few years ago against the trailer queens. All cars competing there now go to an unloading area and have to be driven to a judging area and then driven back to their air-conditioned dust proof trailers. They had found that a few high point cars wouldn't run. They were missing a few things, like in one case of a U16, a couple of crankshafts!!! Others were presented with the inside of the exhaust pipes polished and the owners flatly refused to start them.

I also have a problem with cars that are "restored" to a standard that the manufacturer never intended, or indeed, could have achieved with the technology of the times. Too many of these are mass produced cheap family cars of no great technical merit and never terribly well presented when new.

When you strip aside the gloss and undeserved reputation, that Falcon GT is just a Fairmont with a few options.

BMKal

2nd May 2010, 08:22 PM

When you strip aside the gloss and undeserved reputation, that Falcon GT is just a Fairmont with a few options.

Which just happened to be the fastest 4 door sedan in the world in its day. Would crap all over many of the much more costly European imports that the "elite" chose to drive.

Personally, I couldn't care less whether someone keeps a restored car in their garage, or drives it regularly on the road. It's their money, their car and their choice. I believe that freedom of choice is something that we still pride ourselves on in this country (well, as much as we are allowed to). I believe that stating that people should be stripped of their assets if they choose not to use them the way that some people believe that they should be used, is little different to the prize ******* you get on some of the other 4WD sites who say that nobody should be allowed to own a 4WD unless they drive them off road and get them muddy. :mad:

Having said all that - I do enjoy seeing a well preserved / maintained classic vehicle of any description out and about on the roads. They tend to demonstrate how boring today's whitegoods on wheels are. :D

Bigbjorn

2nd May 2010, 08:36 PM

Which just happened to be the fastest 4 door sedan in the world in its day. Would crap all over many of the much more costly European imports that the "elite" chose to drive.

:D

The HO variant may have had a doubtful claim to that but not the normal GT.

Look at their competition history.

1967, beat minis at Bathurst.
1968 got well and truly rolled by Holden Monara GTS327
1969 Holden GTS350 took 7 out of the 10 first places
1970 &1971 won Bathurst against Toranas with barely more than half the Ford's engine capacity
1972 got rolled by said Toranas
1973 Torana was winning until Doug Chivas decided he could go another lap without refuelling

Sprint

2nd May 2010, 08:46 PM

Should i point out that the average LC/LJ torana weighs a bit less than a falcon?

flagg

2nd May 2010, 08:46 PM

I used to show my Alpina regularly. I've had seconds, thirds, commendeds etc but I have never won anything - because I drove it.

There are some really good people in the show car circuit but there are some total nobs too. Like the ones who show Mercs. :angel:

I came second to by 1.5 points once - I had spent a month cleaning / polishing the damn thing before hand. Not much I can do about it really.

marko66

2nd May 2010, 09:07 PM

Hi All

Sprint did all this start cause they got that traffic light working mate:(:):D:cool:

But i agree with most of the posters here that its so wonderful to these classics on the road :):D and yes I agree that it's annoying when people do what you say Sprint.

Regards Mark

Sprint

2nd May 2010, 09:07 PM

I came second to by 1.5 points once - I had spent a month cleaning / polishing the damn thing before hand. Not much I can do about it really.

i bet you enjoyed the drive home though!

2_door

2nd May 2010, 09:12 PM

I'm not so sure :angel:

isnt being the beauty of being Australian about having choices and freedom to do as I want...and not being judgemental and critical of the choices we have.

if some 'noob' wants to polish the living jesus out of a GT or drive it every day, isnt that their choice and one we should enjoy in a society of freedom and individuality....

my daily drive is a 308 HZ one tonner, sure it has rust here and there, loud eshaust and it makes kids cry and old ladies dive for cover, but I love it, drive and gas it up when I get the chance, but I do cause I can and no one will ever convince me its wrong, cause I wanna

I say spend every last dollar on your pride and joy or drive it every day and be proud, just dont judge me :(

each to their own and lets be happy we have choices :p

Mick_Marsh

2nd May 2010, 09:17 PM

When you strip aside the gloss and undeserved reputation, that Falcon GT is just a Fairmont with a few options.
I think you might find its a Falcon 500 with a few options.

Having said that, this has been a point of discussion amongst some other car enthusiasts recently. I am in the process of restoring an old Mercedes and the question is often asked of me at what point do I deviate from the original specs.? At that point I usually suggest a Holden V8 would go well in it.
There is a movement amongst the classic vehicle community who place more emphasis on the patina of a vehicle.
25093
My Mercedes has the worn out carpet replaced with a piece of berber carpet ripped from someone's living room probably. I want to replace it but there are a few people who think I should preserve the vehicles patina.
On the other hand, there are people who believe if they repaint the fading, crappy original paint, they are detracting from the originality of the car.
And, of course, there are those who polish their head studs.
Who's right, they all are. I just love appreciating the labours of their love.

rovercare

2nd May 2010, 09:19 PM

each to their own and lets be happy we have choices :p

^^^^:)

Mikes defender

2nd May 2010, 09:35 PM

I've been in the mini club for years.. about 5 years ago there was a show and shine... our 2 family cars were presented with a good inch of mud covering the entire car!!! we only cleaned off the lights and windows.... The reaction was amazing.. so with absolute discust and other with massive smiles on there faces say thats whats having a mini is about!!! Or which road did you take? Out of the 500 plus cars there i think ours got the most attention.!! (we had driven both cars in a trial the preivous weekend)

I do admire the cars that are restored to that degree. Some cars, particuly muscle cars are a real handful on the road with out dated brake... And as the are fewer people with the skills and time to spend hours in the shed repairing there cars. I think the trailer queens are here to stay. Some of those falcon are worth more than houses..

People can do what they want with there cars.. its up to them. But there is no better thrill then thrashing the nuts of you pride and joy on a ciruit!!! Or pushing you 4wd deep into the bush!!! i don't think they know what there missing!!!

Sprint

2nd May 2010, 09:48 PM

Dont get me wrong, i didnt go out to bait the average owner, but i got the right response from those i was after....

the average owners love seeing cars that get driven and are more than happy to tease the competition, its the eliteists and snobs that get really cranky about the criticism and "lesser" brands.....

what would you think, if say, at a LR specific show, someone turned up wearing a Toyota jacket? I'd take it that the toyota guy was more interested in appreciating the green oval than skiting about how good his landbruiser or playdough is!

or would you sit there and demand he lose the jacket?

how about this...... it was mentioned at one club meet (for a specific badge) that, shock, horror, there had been a TORANA at a previous cruse, and the person who brought it up felt rather offended that he'd had to share the road with it!

Mick_Marsh

2nd May 2010, 10:01 PM

its the eliteists and snobs that get really cranky about the criticism and "lesser" brands.....
Did I just get called an elitist.....again?

Sprint,
I know what you mean. You get those types in all car clubs (and dare I say it, fora). It's just a part of life. Don't talk to me about life..........

2_door

2nd May 2010, 10:08 PM

Dont get me wrong, i didnt go out to bait the average owner, but i got the right response from those i was after.... that sounds like baiting to me :angel:

Sprint

2nd May 2010, 10:19 PM

I didnt deny it!

However, I'm not going to lose any sleep over upsetting the type of people who feed the "Ford vs Holden" arguments (ffs, each brand has thier merits, live with it, we see it only to regularly from toyota and nissan owners who knock Landrovers)

My actions got the desired reaction from my target demographic!

As for the rivet counters, get a life and save the drama for the shows where a trophy is on the line.

2_door

2nd May 2010, 11:17 PM

p38arover

3rd May 2010, 01:04 AM

I have no problem telling such people that, in all honesty, they deserve to be stripped of thier cars, simply because if you dont use something in the way it was intended, you can never appreciate its true value and you have no right to deprive someone else of that pleasure.

Best if I sell the Rangie. :(

Sprint

3rd May 2010, 02:06 AM

dont worry ron, just keep a can of spray-on mud in the glovebox and you'll fit right into the toorak tractor set :-P

twitchy

3rd May 2010, 05:50 AM

that sounds like baiting to me :angel:

Sounds like Sprint is a " Master Baiter" :p

Truly though, while it is nice to see the work in some of these garage princess cars it is way nicer to see them getting thrashed!!!

incisor

3rd May 2010, 07:16 AM

The HO variant may have had a doubtful claim to that but not the normal GT.
yep

even the local bog standard triumph 2.5pi 5 speed manual flogged gthos on a regular basis at the local "street meets".

great cars they were for posing but they seemed to have reached mythical status these days..

Bigbjorn

3rd May 2010, 08:21 AM

dont worry ron, just keep a can of spray-on mud in the glovebox and you'll fit right into the toorak tractor set :-P

And be correctly attired. See my advice to Uncle Ho as to correct attire for a Range Rover driver.

Bigbjorn

3rd May 2010, 08:22 AM

Should i point out that the average LC/LJ torana weighs a bit less than a falcon?

And had miles better brakes.

Lotz-A-Landies

3rd May 2010, 10:29 AM

One thing that I want to laugh at everytime I hear it, is when someone who is restoring a series Land Rover, "is restoring it to concorse condition". I just have to say that a Land Rover was never an elegant car, even when new they were purchased out to back of the feed and grain store with the barbed wire and hay bales. Though a great and useful vehicle, they will never be Concours d'Elegance condition in a 100 lifetimes.

If you want to see elitist, just go to the Sydney Concours d'Elegance 10-10-10 website Australia's first Concours d'Elegance 101010.com.au (http://www.101010.com.au/index2.html) they won't even permit a Ford or GM vehicle to enter the competition.

Diana

Sprint

3rd May 2010, 10:49 AM

tell me about it! how many "concours restorations" have you seen on series landrovers where the panels are perfectly flat and ripple/blemish free????

makes you want to take to them with a ballpein hammer!

PhilipA

3rd May 2010, 11:00 AM

In a similar vein to the above, my pet peeve and the reason I go to few car shows is that so many of them are fakes.

Only because I was press ganged by SWMBO on day into going to a large Trash and Treasure market at Rat park at Warriewood about 5 years ago.

There was a display of "RS2000s" there, 6 in all.

Now having been National Distribution Manager of Ford I am pretty familiar with ID plates.
Only one of the cars was an RS2000. ALL of the others were basic Ls or XLs. One was even a 2 door with a four door ID plate!!! And I do not know how that can legally happen.

I am afraid that I cannot see the value in a base model tricked up as a rare model and am always astounded at the asking prices of Falcon 500s tricked up as GTs, and that is declared fakes. Who knows how many are undeclared. And I love the blurb"certified by Ford etc" . A rebirth may have the right numbers but that does not make it genuine.
Regards Philip A

Pedro_The_Swift

3rd May 2010, 11:04 AM

you might be just the person who'd know Phillip,,,

are there any REAL GT40's in OZ?

PhilipA

3rd May 2010, 11:13 AM

you might be just the person who'd know Phillip,,,

are there any REAL GT40's in OZ?

Sorry no idea. Except the original GT40 was a racing car and mainly run by major teams like John Wyer racing. If any came to Oz they were imported by collectors.

If you are talking the more recent Ford GT, I think a couple have been privately imported but I have no real knowledge other than what I recall from reading mags like Australian Classics.
It is amazing what turns up.
One of my friends is currently importing an unfinished NZ alloy D Type replica with long nose and drivers stabilizer wing with a view to build into a road warrior. WOW !!!!!

Regards Philip A

Pedro_The_Swift

3rd May 2010, 11:18 AM

sorry,, the GT.

any pics of the warrior?

Tank

3rd May 2010, 11:27 AM

The HO variant may have had a doubtful claim to that but not the normal GT.

Look at their competition history.

1967, beat minis at Bathurst.
1968 got well and truly rolled by Holden Monara GTS327
1969 Holden GTS350 took 7 out of the 10 first places
1970 &1971 won Bathurst against Toranas with barely more than half the Ford's engine capacity
1972 got rolled by said Toranas
1973 Torana was winning until Doug Chivas decided he could go another lap without refuelling
1968 302 Ford against 327 4 bolt small block Chev.
1969 only because of crap yank tyres.
1970/71 202 vs. 351, Toranas 1/2 the weight with same size tyres as Fords.
1972 As above, holden couldn't win using the equivalent size car, the HQ so they stuffed an oversize engine in an imported Vauxhall (4cyl. car) and called it the torana.
1973, phht, excuses, LOL
Regards Frank.

Tank

3rd May 2010, 11:37 AM

PhilipA

3rd May 2010, 11:37 AM

any pics of the warrior?

Not that he has shown me yet.

Regards Philip A

Sprint

3rd May 2010, 11:56 AM

WTF, Why, regards Frank.

so they actually resemble a series landrover as it actually rolled off the line?

Bigbjorn

3rd May 2010, 12:23 PM

1968 302 Ford against 327 4 bolt small block Chev.
1969 only because of crap yank tyres.
1970/71 202 vs. 351, Toranas 1/2 the weight with same size tyres as Fords.
1972 As above, holden couldn't win using the equivalent size car, the HQ so they stuffed an oversize engine in an imported Vauxhall (4cyl. car) and called it the torana.
1973, phht, excuses, LOL
Regards Frank.

1969- The racing tyres on the Ford factory team cars would not fit on the privateers cars. Which meant some unhomologated modifications had been made to the factory team cars. Just as well for the Ford factory team that the tyres failed as everyone was getting ready to line up with their protest money. They could never have been declared winners. I am sure of this, I was there in the pits, and the Ford privateers were livid, and the Holden teams were chortling.

1970- Toranas had 186 engines, the 3100X prefix. Not sure now about 1971 as to whether the 202 or 3300X was in them at that stage, probably not. The 202 option in Toranas was released some time after the initial release of the LJ series in 1972. I couldn't get one in the early LJ I ordered for my mum. 1972 Bathurst GTR's with XU1 option used the 3300X for sure. Later 202's in Torana GTR used a different engine number prefix. I think the one for option XU1 was JP but don't take that as gospel. It was a marketing decision to promote the Torana that made the Torana the focus of the HDT's racing efforts, not any shortcomings of the HQ Monaro 350. HQ's were selling as fast as we could make them and the marketing and development focus went to the Torana range. A competitive Bathurst HQ 350 could have easily been homologated out of factory parts bins and the US GM Goodwrench range of performance equipment should there have been a need.

As a matter of interest to those unfamiliar with models then, the Monaro GTS350 in HK,HT, HG, and HQ ranges was a separate model, 81837, that was in regular production. It could be ordered any time simply by the dealer ticking the model box and any options required by the customer on an order form. We even used to build a few for plant stock in the more popular colour and trim combinations. Torana GTR's were likewise, model 82911, and in regular daily scheduled production and kept in plant stock. The Torana GTR with option XU1 "Special Vehicle Equipment" was built in batches of around 220 for homologation purposes to ensure updates were accepted by CAMS. Whilst theoretically XU1's were available to any dealer, we used them as bait. A dealer could have one if he also took a couple of whatever that were hanging around in plant stock. Small volume country dealers did not like this.

Tank

3rd May 2010, 12:52 PM

Tank

3rd May 2010, 01:01 PM

1969- The racing tyres on the Ford factory team cars would not fit on the privateers cars. Which meant some unhomologated modifications had been made to the factory team cars. Just as well for the Ford factory team that the tyres failed as everyone was getting ready to line up with their protest money. They could never have been declared winners. I am sure of this, I was there in the pits, and the Ford privateers were livid, and the Holden teams were chortling.

1970- Toranas had 186 engines, the 3100X prefix. Not sure now about 1971 as to whether the 202 or 3300X was in them at that stage, probably not. The 202 option in Toranas was released some time after the initial release of the LJ series in 1972. I couldn't get one in the early LJ I ordered for my mum. 1972 Bathurst GTR's with XU1 option used the 3300X for sure. Later 202's in Torana GTR used a different engine number prefix. I think the one for option XU1 was JP but don't take that as gospel. It was a marketing decision to promote the Torana that made the Torana the focus of the HDT's racing efforts, not any shortcomings of the HQ Monaro 350. HQ's were selling as fast as we could make them and the marketing and development focus went to the Torana range. A competitive Bathurst HQ 350 could have easily been homologated out of factory parts bins and the US GM Goodwrench range of performance equipment should there have been a need.

As a matter of interest to those unfamiliar with models then, the Monaro GTS350 in HK,HT, HG, and HQ ranges was a separate model, 81837, that was in regular production. It could be ordered any time simply by the dealer ticking the model box and any options required by the customer on an order form. We even used to build a few for plant stock in the more popular colour and trim combinations. Torana GTR's were likewise, model 82911, and in regular daily scheduled production and kept in plant stock. The Torana GTR with option XU1 "Special Vehicle Equipment" was built in batches of around 220 for homologation purposes to ensure updates were accepted by CAMS. Whilst theoretically XU1's were available to any dealer, we used them as bait. A dealer could have one if he also took a couple of whatever that were hanging around in plant stock. Small volume country dealers did not like this.
If you raced a HQ around Bathust it would be ready for the scrap bin about halfway through the race, even the earlier 2 door Monaros were popping windscreens and splitting the passenger footwell floor.
Mate, my old mans HQ popped a windscreen and cracked it with a 10ft. tinny on the roofracks at 60klms/h, what was it 4 bolts in the subframe and the front guard bolts held the whole front end on, try unbolting the guards with the front jacked up, there was no way Holden could have bodged up a HQ to race at Bathurst (or anywhere else) and got it past scrutiny, Regards Frank.

Bigbjorn

3rd May 2010, 01:12 PM

If you raced a HQ around Bathust it would be ready for the scrap bin about halfway through the race, even the earlier 2 door Monaros were popping windscreens and splitting the passenger footwell floor.
Mate, my old mans HQ popped a windscreen and cracked it with a 10ft. tinny on the roofracks at 60klms/h, what was it 4 bolts in the subframe and the front guard bolts held the whole front end on, try unbolting the guards with the front jacked up, there was no way Holden could have bodged up a HQ to race at Bathurst (or anywhere else) and got it past scrutiny, Regards Frank.

All modifications necessary to make a race car would have been homologated with CAMS by building and selling 200 or more. We are talking factory involvement not a single race car put together by a privateer. Big difference as far as engineering, design, manufacture, and budget.

Bigbjorn

3rd May 2010, 01:19 PM

In a similar vein to the above, my pet peeve and the reason I go to few car shows is that so many of them are fakes.

I am afraid that I cannot see the value in a base model tricked up as a rare model and am always astounded at the asking prices of Falcon 500s tricked up as GTs, and that is declared fakes.
Regards Philip A

You mean like the base model Falcon's with GT running gear supplied to the NSW police in Cambridge Blue and black trim? Used car dealers loved to buy these at the government auctions and convert them to GT's with the aid of a wrecked Fairmont or GS pack. I drove a few up for Blair Shepherd and Bert Marwood. You could hammer them around the Putty road and up the New England flat strap and the Highway Patrols ignored you, thinking it was one of the lads in a hurry.

land864

3rd May 2010, 01:39 PM

I recently bought a little 2 seater sports job.

When I was looking I must admit that at first , I was looking for something Pristine :rolleyes:

Then on that marque's forum someone made what I thought was a very wise statement.

" If you want something that is to be polished and admired , buy a piece of antique furntire. If you want to enjoy owning a car , buy it and drive it in the manner for which it's designers and makers intended "

Got to say that on my first club road run , I drove the hell out of it and it performed and handled magnificently.I still haven't wiped the grin off my face:D

It's no concourse job but geez it's fun.

BigJon

3rd May 2010, 02:03 PM

Yes, but what is it? And where are the pics? :D

Lotz-A-Landies

3rd May 2010, 02:13 PM

so they actually resemble a series landrover as it actually rolled off the line?If someone wants to do up a car, any car and make it look good, i.e. better than original, what is wrong with that, seems to me that you are the snob, no offence intended, but to each his own, Regards Frank.Don't get me wrong, I love well restored vehicles and seeing a restoration that is better than it was when it rolled off the assembly plant is great and a credit to it's custodian/owner.

While doing a restoration to make something better, or at least the best it can be is something to be rewarded and possibly honoured it is not the same as making something it never was, like making an XY Falcon 500 out to be Falcon GTHO which is merely a fraud.

steve_35

3rd May 2010, 02:51 PM

Yes there is a real modern GT40 it was for sale on ebay about 2 months ago

i think it was around $150,000 red one down in Cranbourne

JamesH

3rd May 2010, 02:58 PM

"While doing a restoration to make something better, or at least the best it can be is something to be rewarded and possibly honoured "

He' just described the first 12 months of owning a new Landrover! :D

steve_35

3rd May 2010, 03:18 PM

JamesH

3rd May 2010, 03:23 PM

The ones that get me are the people that payed for everything on the car to be done for them
They still try to make out that they have created or achieved something special

a big wallet just makes you rich it doesnt increase your talent

Well I'm sure the craftsmen and women who worked on the car were grateful for the pay and the opportunity to showcase their talents. The job got done and writing the cheques is a part of every job.

PAT303

3rd May 2010, 03:23 PM

I watched an offroad show on pay TV about offroad driving in Britain,there was a man with a factory Austin Healey rally car that is worth many hundreds of thousands of dollars that very regulary gets abused by people who claim he is wrecking a very special car by rallying it,his response is that he is using the car for what it was built for. Pat

pop058

3rd May 2010, 03:43 PM

whether you agree or not about how someone treats (paddock hack or garage queen) thier car, at the end of the day, it is thier car. I personally prefer to drive and enjoy my toys/vehicles as often as possable, but still appreciate the "better than new" trailer queens. I would love to have the money and space to enjoy both concepts, but like most of us that isn't going to happen.

The cheque book restorations are fine, provided the correct people get recognised. Although being paid to work your passion is usually enough for most.

So enjoy what YOU have, the way YOU want.

klappers

3rd May 2010, 04:01 PM

For me it would feel strange if I let anyone work on my car... I know how I like to do things, and I like to know how they work... So if it does break again, I can fix it.

Concourse is something that I think should be admired... Whether or not they paid someone to do it or they did it themselves does not really matter. What matters is that they have a car that LOOKS amazing. Nothing more nothing less. Does not matter if they had it taken there on a flat bed or they drove it to the show... The point is, it makes them happy.. Isn't that what owning something like that is all about. Just because they do it their way, does not make it any more or less righteous then the way that you would do something. Variety is awesome.

As for a concourse Landy.. why not???

Tombie

3rd May 2010, 04:12 PM

I actually like all types of cars, and, MY opinion is that it is a true shame to own some of these older ones and not experience the feeling of driving them (my opinion)...

I love the look of an older vehicle, cruising down the highway, or a long a beach on a sunny day... Vehicles doing what they are meant to do..

I dont dislike concourse vehicles either, be a trailer queen if you must :cool:

BUT - I absolutely, totally, hate those vehicles built for concourse that cannot be driven, started etc....
These are not examples of a vehicle at its finest, they are shells of a vehicle...
Hide the wiring - great... Trick out and chrome everything - ok...
But if it cant do, what it was built to do in the first place (be driven) then its NOT a vehicle...

The trick is to build awesome, but (in some form) be functional as a vehicle... Now that is an art :D

Something like this:
http://loadinform.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/scythe-supercar.jpg

http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/jalopnik/2008/11/Scythe.jpg

PhilipA

3rd May 2010, 05:04 PM

You mean like the base model Falcon's with GT running gear supplied to the NSW police in Cambridge Blue and black trim? Used car dealers loved to buy these at the government auctions and convert them to GT's with the aid of a wrecked Fairmont or GS pack. I drove a few up for Blair Shepherd and Bert Marwood. You could hammer them around the Putty road and up the New England flat strap and the Highway Patrols ignored you, thinking it was one of the lads in a hurry.

You may remember way back to XR where the Interceptor became the GT but with the 289..
Now my memory is not all that clear on this but I am absolutely sure that the XY Interceptor was a 351 2V not a 4V. I remember one of the guys in Brisbane driving one to run it in and was terrified by the bonnet flapping at 150MPH.
The police cars were no faster than any others but there were lots of rumours around which bore no relation to reality.They were still pretty quick.
I am not sure about the XW, but it may have had a 4V, as the ZF Fairlane had a 4V which changed to 2V in ZG.

Actually the fastest XY GTs that I ever drove were 2 press cars in Quicksilver and Peppermint (faster than a couple of HOs I drove). The Quicksilver manual was bought by a colleague who got it home to find a "blueprinted by Fred Gibson" tag on the sump. Noooo Ford didn't dummy up press cars in those days. Heaven forbid! They were seam welded also. i remember driving the first TC cortina press car. The thing went like excrement off a shovel with about 8 secs 0-100. Funny about the production ones.

The XC of course had the ****house emission 351 which would not pull the skin off a custard.(relatively)

The XD also had the the Carter thermoquad motor and I remember running out of petrol a couple of times going to work in my XD GS wagon with a 351 auto at 9MPG. It still went pretty well and would chirp a bit into second. For some crazy **** by the marketing boys you could not get a 351 XD ESP which was the successor to the GT,as they wanted to reposition it as "European" inspired.

I built one for Edsel Ford when he was deputy MD and it caused hell to pay as it was not in the computer and a guy had to walk beside it down the line. It should be worth something! But of course there are probably dozens of them now.LOL The plant manager rang me fuming and I pointed out Edsel's name was on the car.

Regards Philip A

Bigbjorn

3rd May 2010, 05:51 PM

They were seam welded also.

I built one for Edsel Ford when he was deputy MD and it caused hell to pay as it was not in the computer and a guy had to walk beside it down the line. It should be worth something! But of course there are probably dozens of them now.LOL The plant manager rang me fuming and I pointed out Edsel's name was on the car.

Regards Philip A

If you had the right contacts in the plant we could get our staff order cars seam welded. They would take it off line after being spot welded together in the body shop, mig the seams then put it back in its bubble. Cost you a couple of cartons. You could get the service garage to bung in an LS diff. the same way before the car left the plant.

Special orders were relatively easily done at GM-H using the SVO system (Special Vehicle Order) as long as the necessary bits were in the system. Common examples were Chev. 350's in panel vans and One Tonners. Had to be built in a plant that both made the model and had the jigs for the special bits. This meant that a 350 One Tonner could only be built at Elizabeth and a 350 panel van could only be built at Dandenong. Kingswood trim in panel vans was a common SVO. Panel vans were all Belmonts then but later a Kingswood model was released because of the Kingswood trim popularity. All sorts of odd combinations were built using the SVO system.

One SVO that received virtually nil publicity was the Kingswood HT version built for the ACT Police. I can't remember the numbers built, not many I suppose. Canberra would not have had a big police force. They were quite standard looking Kingswood four door sedans in nice conservative two tone colour schemes, 300hp four bolt 350 Chev, US sourced police spec auto, LSD, 6" wheels, ER70radial tyres, usual police heavy duty suspension and electrical options. Went like bloody hell and looked like a public servant's family car.

I remember the foreman of the touch up shop at Pagewood buying his wife a Kingswood out of the company fleet.He took it into the shop, gathered his leading hands around him and told them it was his wife's new car and to tell him when they had it ready. Best finished Kingswood you ever saw when it went out the gate. I had to turn a blind eye to the Premier trim, weathershields, sun visor, etc, etc, etc that had miraculously grown attached to it (and the LS diff).

Jeff

3rd May 2010, 05:53 PM

1967, beat minis at Bathurst.
1968 got well and truly rolled by Holden Monara GTS327
1969 Holden GTS350 took 7 out of the 10 first places
1970 &1971 won Bathurst against Toranas with barely more than half the Ford's engine capacity
1972 got rolled by said Toranas
1973 Torana was winning until Doug Chivas decided he could go another lap without refuelling

I don't think it was Doug Chivas' decision, I remember their pit board saying 'get max laps' displayed not long before.

Jeff

:rocket:

pop058

3rd May 2010, 06:13 PM

You may remember way back to XR where the Interceptor became the GT but with the 289..
Now my memory is not all that clear on this but I am absolutely sure that the XY Interceptor was a 351 2V not a 4V. I remember one of the guys in Brisbane driving one to run it in and was terrified by the bonnet flapping at 150MPH.
The police cars were no faster than any others but there were lots of rumours around which bore no relation to reality.They were still pretty quick.
I am not sure about the XW, but it may have had a 4V, as the ZF Fairlane had a 4V which changed to 2V in ZG.

Actually the fastest XY GTs that I ever drove were 2 press cars in Quicksilver and Peppermint (faster than a couple of HOs I drove). The Quicksilver manual was bought by a colleague who got it home to find a "blueprinted by Fred Gibson" tag on the sump. Noooo Ford didn't dummy up press cars in those days. Heaven forbid! They were seam welded also. i remember driving the first TC cortina press car. The thing went like excrement off a shovel with about 8 secs 0-100. Funny about the production ones.

The XC of course had the ****house emission 351 which would not pull the skin off a custard.(relatively)

The XD also had the the Carter thermoquad motor and I remember running out of petrol a couple of times going to work in my XD GS wagon with a 351 auto at 9MPG. It still went pretty well and would chirp a bit into second. For some crazy **** by the marketing boys you could not get a 351 XD ESP which was the successor to the GT,as they wanted to reposition it as "European" inspired.

I built one for Edsel Ford when he was deputy MD and it caused hell to pay as it was not in the computer and a guy had to walk beside it down the line. It should be worth something! But of course there are probably dozens of them now.LOL The plant manager rang me fuming and I pointed out Edsel's name was on the car.

Regards Philip A

:confused:

I know of a couple of (what I believe are) factory 5.8 XD ESP's

BigJon

3rd May 2010, 06:48 PM

I don't know about XD ESPs with a 351 but you could get an XE 351 ESP.

Tombie

3rd May 2010, 06:51 PM

I don't know about XD ESPs with a 351 but you could get an XE 351 ESP.

I had an XE ESP 351 it was stolen and written off at high speed...

Not the best pic, but here it is in the better days...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

pop058

3rd May 2010, 07:32 PM

I had an XE ESP 351 it was stolen and written off at high speed...

Not the best pic, but here it is in the better days...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

very nice, good to see another green AND blue oval fan

tapout

3rd May 2010, 07:47 PM

Well you cant have pic's of ford without a holden there to challenge it,
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/05/1461.jpg
And yes it gets driven, hard, this pic was from willowbank drag strip, still own it now.

Jason.
P.S. Im not a fan of the trailer queens

pop058

3rd May 2010, 08:21 PM

tapout

3rd May 2010, 08:28 PM

Bigbjorn

3rd May 2010, 08:42 PM

I still run the banjo diff (fine spline) 3.36 ratio, hope you werent wait for me to say ford 9". lol. Ive got a R31 skyline diff (4 pinion etc, same as vl turbo and same width as torana) for it, when im not working on my disco ill be able to put it in, not for a while then lol.

Jason.

And Ford 9" diffs used in serious competition rarely have any Ford parts left in them other than the housing and even that gets reinforcing weldments attached. Most are completely rebuilt using severe service aftermarket parts.

rovercare

3rd May 2010, 09:19 PM

I had an XE ESP 351 it was stolen and written off at high speed...

Not the best pic, but here it is in the better days...
http://gallery.mac.com/rovertech/100362/MikesVehicles0-20-8-_2/web.jpg'ver=12728774780001

My brother has had an XE 351 esp, an XD 302 ESP, I remember going to mansfield with him 12 years ago to look at a factory turbo 250 XE ESP, also had a VJ E48, the one after the supercar scare, 52 made, fitted with 6 pack hemi as opposed to the 340 they should of had, he was ESP mad:D

Now has an XE fairmont ghia, brand new typhoon bottom end sitting in the shed, head, big ass turbo....but that'll be a long time till fruition:(

rovercare

3rd May 2010, 09:21 PM

And Ford 9" diffs used in serious competition rarely have any Ford parts left in them other than the housing and even that gets reinforcing weldments attached. Most are completely rebuilt using severe service aftermarket parts.

Correct, but they are a great blank canvas, having the 3rd bearing on the pinion, that prevents the pinion walking off the crown wheel, this IS the strenth point of the 9"

pop058

3rd May 2010, 09:51 PM

rovercare

3rd May 2010, 10:01 PM

but still a FORD 9" none-the-less

Well, when you replace the carrier, internal gearset, bearings, crown wheel and pinion, its still....kinda....a ford 9":D

Sprint

3rd May 2010, 10:49 PM

Well, when you replace the carrier, internal gearset, bearings, crown wheel and pinion, its still....kinda....a ford 9":D

Just like how you can take a county

Add an isuzu diesel engine
Isuzu gearbox (so the torque impulse doesnt destroy things)
salisbury diffs
maxidrive lockers and axles
pro-comp wheels
bilstien shock absorbers
OME springs
ARB 'roobar

etc etc.....

but its still a landrover....

Mick_Marsh

3rd May 2010, 11:54 PM

Just like how you can take a county

Add an isuzu diesel engine
Isuzu gearbox (so the torque impulse doesnt destroy things)
salisbury diffs
maxidrive lockers and axles
pro-comp wheels
bilstien shock absorbers
OME springs
ARB 'roobar

etc etc.....

but its still a landrover....
Grandfathers Axe principle.

The head has been changed three times and the handle seven but it's still grandfathers axe.

bobslandies

4th May 2010, 12:24 AM

you might be just the person who'd know Phillip,,,

are there any REAL GT40's in OZ?

At least one around – Chassis P1034.
http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/17456/ppuser/13056
And it was certainly no “trailer queen”. I was official photographer at the Motor Club Show held at Yennora Woolshed (Sydney) in 1981. We took it off the trailer, then put it back on as it looked much better – standing out more!
At that time it was owned by the late George Parlby, later awarded the OAM. He was a property developer, rowing and tennis sportsman among other things and a keen racing driver. He bought it in 1974 and raced it until 1982. It ran in the inaugural Australian GP in 1985 (in Adelaide - see next post by Brian) and later was sold to an American but returned in 1999 when it was bought by David Bowden and was regularly driven by Kevin Bartlett.
It is now a different colour and was for sale last year for $2.5 Million dollars but if you are interested it can be viewed along with its history here:
1965 MK1 Ford GT40, Chassis P 1034 | Ecurie Investments (http://www.ecurieinvestments.com.au/1965-mk1-ford-gt40-chassis-p-1034)

The 1938 Jaguar SS100 was owned by John Bryson - a Sydney Jaguar dealer. Chasis no. 39104, Body no 5011 - one of 300 made.

Bigbjorn

4th May 2010, 08:25 AM

The inaugural Australian Grand Prix was run in 1928 at Phillip Island, not 1985. Perhaps you mean the car ran in one of the support races at the Formula 1 meeting held in Adelaide in 1985.

bobslandies

4th May 2010, 08:44 AM

The inaugural Australian Grand Prix was run in 1928 at Phillip Island, not 1985. Perhaps you mean the car ran in one of the support races at the Formula 1 meeting held in Adelaide in 1985.

Thanks Brian - of course. It was late last night when I posted! That's what I meant. I'll edit the post to reflect that.

Bob

PhilipA

4th May 2010, 09:50 AM

I remember the foreman of the touch up shop at Pagewood buying his wife a Kingswood out of the company fleet.He took it into the shop, gathered his leading hands around him and told them it was his wife's new car and to tell him when they had it ready. Best finished Kingswood you ever saw when it went out the gate. I had to turn a blind eye to the Premier trim, weathershields, sun visor, etc, etc, etc that had miraculously grown attached to it (and the LS diff).
__________________

Along the same lines the Production Manager at Brisbane Plant had a nice Bronze Wine XA Fairmont with beige vinyl roof.
During the Brisbane floods in 1974 He had it parked on a hill at Chelmer where he lived. The flood peak rose so much that the car was completely submerged and a speedboat ran over the top of it doing a lot of damage to the turret.

Duncan Norris the Plant manager approved the complete rebuild of the car, and it emerged a new one completely refitted with new trim, electrics,engine trans etc etc.but with the same tags.

I am not aware of staff cars being specially built, as Don Deveson ran a tight ship at Broadmeadows, but I did learn of some guys in Brisbane throwing components over the back fence. When I was building thousands of cars to BOS ( branch Order Stock) I would always build a couple to specs that I liked on the chance that there would be a fleet turnover.
I had a nice little red Escort 2 door 2litre with rallye pack and sports suspension built, but I only had it a short time.

Don had an endearing habit of driving his Falcon hardtop down between the lines at high speed on the weekend and woe betide the plant operators who didn't leave clear corridors. His hardtop had a 428 CJ which the Detroit guys fitted to a hardtop which went there for styling evaluation.

Regards Philip A

Redback

4th May 2010, 10:22 AM

Bigbjorn

4th May 2010, 10:27 AM

We used to schedule a fair mix of cars for plant stock, but mostly the very popular specs like Kingswood, 202, auto, discs, white, conservative trim colour. The ones that went out the gate trailer load after trailer load every day. The idea was to have a reasonable range on hand for dealers to choose, particularly the smaller ones without the sales volume or financial capacity to carry much stock. Some large metro dealers would have 700 or more vehicles in stock. Some country dealers had none.

Getting your staff order car seam welded and anti-rust dipped three or four times could be done but needed a deal of co-operation from production as the shell had to come off-line to rectification area for the welding and then put back on in the right place and the dipping required a bit of finesse in line management to squeeze the shell off-line, dip it again, and eventually get it back in the right sequence.

I can't imagine rectifying a flooded or badly damaged car at Pagewood. We had more company fleet vehicles than we knew what to do with. Rule was to sell them at three months/2000 miles. Some had only a few hundred miles on. The Plant Controller was entitled to a Statesman de Ville with all the bells and whistles. He lived less than two miles away and one of his cars was once sold at 94 miles.

Theft was pretty well under control and generally at a petty level. Occasionally something like a crate of alternators would disappear. This was usually done by the connivance of a worker, a truckie, and the right opportunity. Only two cars disappeared complete from Pagewood. One was hoisted over the side fence along the golf club with a mobile crane, and a HD disappeared from outside storage at the Sydney Showgrounds.

People were regularly caught trying to smuggle parts out the gate and police were always called immediately and the person was sacked on the spot.

Staff who bought cars either new or ex company fleet were obliged to keep them for 12 months. Random inspection of registration papers occurred to see if the car was still in the buyers name. Several sales staff got sacked for buying ex-company fleet HQ SS, which was supposed to be a marketing one-off. We put a swag of them in the fleet for the reps to take around all their dealers and use as demos. The dealers took heaps of orders and we were out of stock. Several sales people got their heads together and bought cars and promptly sold them to dealers. Somehow security got wind of this and went through them like the proverbial packet of salts. A couple of the sackings were high level at the state sales office.

UncleHo

4th May 2010, 10:51 AM

Bigbjorn

4th May 2010, 11:24 AM

Aah! GMH Pagewood plant ;) well, the police didn't have to travel far in the late 60' early 70's in the HK/T/G era as there was usually a paddy wagon and often an ambulance parked at the front gate during night shift :( seems that personal and production management couldn't quite come to terms with ethnic diversity/hatred, and put differing nationalities either together or close together on the winding line ;) (was offered a job as a charge hand on night shift after the other bloke was stabbed trying to break up a fight, the qualifications were, speak, read and write english) body undercoating area from memory, way better money than Zetland :) but I valued my health and my social/motorcycling life ;)

cheers

Jaysus, Uncle. The pay must have been bloody crook at Zetland. Assemblers at GM-H were lowly paid. The only ethnic problems I can recall were between Croats and Serbs and generally on an individual basis. Same system as used on the Snowy, mix them up rather than have groups of all the same ethnicity/religion opposing groups of their traditional enemy.

Getting workers for overtime required a bit of finesse, particularly weekends. The Italians would be busy building the blocka da flat, the Greeks working the family coffee shop/snack bar/ chippy, the Lebanese driving the family taxis. Poms, Egyptians and Yugos would work OT until the cows came home. Although a goodly number of Yugos went straight from GM to work a short night shift at Kellog's, Botany.

The coppers used to park in the front entry whilst they were bludging grog and tucker from the Pagewood pub and the Kentucky Duck across the intersection.

PhilipA

4th May 2010, 11:38 AM

Ford had a riot in 1975 where among other things they tried to break into the computer room at Broadmeadows to disable it.

I recall that they were stirred up by English communist Trade unionists who had emigrated because they were blacklisted in UK.

I recall one of the problems we had was between Vietnamese and Turks , who for some reason hated each other. It must have been very early days for the Vietnamese. Maybe the Turks saw them as taking their jobs.

Just on the Ethnic front, I remember in Brisbane plant we had a sudden influx of Torres Straight Islanders. They were willing to work in the lead load area, which was the worst part of car assembly (and is just about gone now with consumer acceptance of join marks hidden by plastic strips). Anyway one day Immigration paid a visit and out of I think 70 only 6 were Australian. The plant had to close for a couple of days while we scraped up some lead load workers.
Regards Philip A

land864

4th May 2010, 01:27 PM

bigjohn.

It's this

BigJon

4th May 2010, 01:30 PM

Nice. I know a bloke in Alice Springs with one :D(the Disco II TD5 is her car :eek:). He reckons it is great... I don't fit in it :mad:.

land864

4th May 2010, 03:14 PM

There has to be some advantage to being a short arse:o

Not neck breakingly quick off the line but it handles like a dream and when the twisty bit speed limit is 80kmh , generally you can keep doing 80kmh through the corners :D

Bigbjorn

4th May 2010, 03:25 PM

Just on the Ethnic front, I remember in Brisbane plant we had a sudden influx of Torres Straight Islanders. They were willing to work in the lead load area, which was the worst part of car assembly (and is just about gone now with consumer acceptance of join marks hidden by plastic strips). Anyway one day Immigration paid a visit and out of I think 70 only 6 were Australian. The plant had to close for a couple of days while we scraped up some lead load workers.
Regards Philip A

We could not use certain Mediterranean ethnic groups in the lead fill and solder discing stations. They were alleged to have a genetic sensitivity to lead in excess of the norm. Most new assemblers started in the body shop particularly on spot welding stations and North Europeans on lead. If they stuck with the company then they got better jobs. There was a hell of a turnover in line labour. Blokes would arrive from overseas or the bush, or just out of gaol and need some work to get started again, rent a flat etc. and then work there for as long as it took to get a bit of a purse or a better job.

Personnel had a permanent ad every day in the Daily Telegraph for assemblers.

I was told that in the early 50's labour was so hard to find that personnel people used to meet the migrant ships as they tied up and spread the word about a job available right now.

VladTepes

4th May 2010, 05:19 PM

OK well I;ve only read page 1 of this thread but can say...

Attended a car show today...

To give you an idea, one lady was there with her (and her husbands) XW GT, very well presented and restored to a standard which seemed to me to be better than new, everything that should be cad plated was nice and shiny, nothing showed any signs of corrosion, and there she was, out with a spray bottle and cloth cleaning what looked good enough to eat off already.....

My god she got cranky when I asked her why she'd gone to such efforts, only to use a non genuine ryco oil filter.....

I don't blame her.
My uncle used to restore Holdens, and many to (as someone mentioned) a standard better than factory. Why ? Well why not.

He had an FJ of his on display at a car show when some knob jockey came up and abused him because the hub caps weren't painted in the correct shade of red for the year the particular vehicle was produced.. blah blah blah. Frankly the bloke was lucky he didn't cop a fist in the teeth.

snt being the beauty of being Australian about having choices and freedom to do as I want...and not being judgemental and critical of the choices we have.

...

I say spend every last dollar on your pride and joy or drive it every day and be proud, just dont judge me :(

each to their own and lets be happy we have choices :p

Amen brother.

Brian Hjelm says.. cars are meant to be driven.

Brian .. I agree completely.

UncleHo

4th May 2010, 07:50 PM

Bigbjorn

4th May 2010, 08:13 PM

G'day Brian Hjelm & PhilipA :)

Can either of you remember the recruitment desks at Mascot airport when the migrant planes came in, from memory about once a month, I took some personel from Zetland down a couple of times,they said that Ford GMH and themselves would set up a desk each, and recruit the required number each needed as they came out of customs :D

cheers

Uncle, we always, or almost always, as Elvis said in that Blue Hawaii song, needed assembly labour, hence the permanent newspaper ads. Better jobs were readily available then. Even quite well paid clerical jobs went unfilled for weeks at a time. Mind you, plenty of other factories had similar problems.

Australians would not do process work for the wages on offer. The only Aussies in the plant other than foremen and supervisors were blokes who had been there for ever and probably could not get anything better or blokes who would soon leave. "Wogs" worked in factories. On payday the phrase used was "going down the plant to pay the wogs".

steve_35

4th May 2010, 08:13 PM

Bigbjorn

4th May 2010, 08:33 PM

Vlad, I gave up judging long ago. I got sick of the arguments.

But here are the basics. In a high end concours any fault will lose points. If you are hoping for a trophy in a heavily contested class then your car must be perfect in every way. The Holden with the wrong colour accents in the hub caps would not get a first prize, nor would the Falcon GT with the wrong filter.

Categories are:-

A+ - Fresh or almost fresh restoration, perfect in every detail, showing no signs of wear and tear or almost none. Or - A 1st Class low mileage original, everything correct, and showing only minor wear and tear.

The original would win.

Categories A and A- are progressively lesser than A+ but still very, very, good cars.

B+ - Complete and correct or almost correct in good condition needing only a little work to be A- or A.

A more worn original or an older but still good restoration is in this category.

C - Restorable, essentially complete and sound, often registered and usable, a good prospect for restoration to B or A without major problems locating missing or unserviceable bits.

Anything less is a parts car or an incomplete and damaged or badly neglected car requiring ground up restoration.

3toes

4th May 2010, 08:51 PM

We could not use certain Mediterranean ethnic groups in the lead fill and solder discing stations. They were alleged to have a genetic sensitivity to lead in excess of the norm. Most new assemblers started in the body shop particularly on spot welding stations and North Europeans on lead.

Dunlop Australia had a similar rule for these reasons in their battery factory in the seventies. Not sure the reason or if it is known why the research has been around for many years to show they adsorb lead more easily and hence have problems. One of those can see the outcome but cannot prove how it happened cases.

Lotz-A-Landies

4th May 2010, 11:22 PM

We could not use certain Mediterranean ethnic groups in the lead fill and solder discing stations. They were alleged to have a genetic sensitivity to lead in excess of the norm. Most new assemblers started in the body shop particularly on spot welding stations and North Europeans on lead.
<snip>You probably meant "a higher tolerance to the norm".

I think I know who did that research! It was Dr Josef Mengele, he had a research facility in Oświęcim Poland. A lot of his work has been discredited since originally published.

Bigbjorn

5th May 2010, 08:27 AM

You probably meant "a higher tolerance to the norm".

I think I know who did that research! It was Dr Josef Mengele, he had a research facility in Oświęcim Poland. A lot of his work has been discredited since originally published.

Whoever and whatever. Our personnel people were convinced of this and we could not employ certain "wogs" in the lead areas.

VladTepes

5th May 2010, 09:09 AM

Brian it was more a local car show that a concours d'elegance !

The bloke making the criticism was a complet tosser.

Bigbjorn

5th May 2010, 12:02 PM

Brian it was more a local car show that a concours d'elegance !

The bloke making the criticism was a complet tosser.

Unfortunately, Vlad, ******* are in oversupply.

land864

5th May 2010, 12:20 PM

Sorry
How did we get from a statement on car shows to making massive generalist comments about race?:eek:

Was Pauline's car there :o

Sprint

5th May 2010, 07:28 PM

Brian it was more a local car show that a concours d'elegance !

The bloke making the criticism was a complet tosser.

What i was criticising are the people who will go berko making sure every last part is perfect down to that last little dot of paint.....

IF they are going to go that far, is it really that much of an expectation that they could at least get one VERY obvious detail right?

I guess its just a case of the perfectionists being able to criticise and the rest of us having to put up with it

as you said, yes, it was only a local car show, so what gives the elitists the right to criticise my car? or do i need to take your uncles approach, become a knuckle dragging neanderthal and start knocking people out?

oh wait..... I'm not allowed to question anything like the upper class are

incisor

5th May 2010, 09:04 PM

What i was criticising are the people who will go berko making sure every last part is perfect down to that last little dot of paint.....

IF they are going to go that far, is it really that much of an expectation that they could at least get one VERY obvious detail right?

I guess its just a case of the perfectionists being able to criticise and the rest of us having to put up with it

as you said, yes, it was only a local car show, so what gives the elitists the right to criticise my car? or do i need to take your uncles approach, become a knuckle dragging neanderthal and start knocking people out?

oh wait..... I'm not allowed to question anything like the upper class are

want some salt with that chip?

/me thinks you need to have a little stop and think .....

El Duderino

5th May 2010, 09:48 PM

Just to weigh in my 2-cents on the matter...

I used to work for an English vehicle specialist in Melbourne. The vast majority of our customers were the anally retentive types who took extreme pride and care in their vehicles...MG's, Austin's, Jag's n Daimlers, Bentley's, Rolls, etc. Earning the trust of customers on their prized possessions (and previous experience), which subsequently opened the door to maintaining their wonderful daily-drivers.

I was considered the #1 draft-pick, at a premium 'stealership' because of age, maturity, technical knowledge and experience, and had many offers from rivals. In the end I chose to accept an offer with a private company specialising in rare old-school restoration work for British vehicles.

I fluked the opportunity to the job because of a personal project with a rare Daimler I had acquired, and it was a new and exciting challenge...far different from a world of "if it's stuffed then I'll just trade it in on the new model". Leasing has been the anti-christ for those who don't deserve to have nor can appreciate...

Dealing with people who genuinely cared about their vehicles, fanatical about every last little detail, paid for everything themselves, etc was such an amazing difference...it was a genuine pleasure to go to work each day. I really enjoyed helping these people create their idea of perfection, and I learned a lot from these people. Many pleasurable hours have been spent after-hours til the wee-hours going over certain vehicles, learning more bout them, what best to do, etc. It's a dying art-form, and something I feel honoured to be invited into.

I can personally vouch for the level of investment that these types put in, and the sheer hours of research is phenominal. While I learned a great deal not only from my colleagues, it especially came from the customers, who had an almanac of knowledge for specific models histories. Without this, mutilating fine examples happens.

Sure some of the customers didn't want to drive their works or art for fear of a spec of dust, but there were those who were happy to drive their creations. You can never judge someone as stuck-up or arrogant because of their intention to drive their creation, and if you choose to do so, then you're an ignorant git...period. :)