holden or not

[hawequas]

hi chasps

i have a 53 80" with a holden grey 138 on very poor welding it does start but i have not driven it, as i am about to do a total rebuild with new wiring, paint job etc should i replace the engine before i get to carried away with the rest of the job

ta garth

[slug_burner]

Some would argue that the holden six is part of australian lr history. It comes down to what you want to do with the vehicle. You could probably restore all other bits before you needed to worry about a motor, you can always do it later after you have got the rest of it sorted.

[isuzurover]

An 80" is the most desirable LR model. They usually had to be substantially butchered to fit a holden 6. If you think you could return it to original condition, then go for it. Otherwise, a restored, converted 80" may still be of interest to some.

[Scallops]

It is really up to you, of course :) - but if you can get hold of the 1.6 Rover engine and it is still doable to refit - I'd go for it. They are such a torquey little motor and part of the thrill, for me at least.

But the vehicle will still be a delight with the holden - so I wouldn't be too concerned either way. ;)

[Rangier Rover]

Be good if you could put it back to original. My 50 model was converted during the late seventies and severely butchered:(
The gearbox and Xmember moved back, front Xmember cut out and replaced with 4" angle, radiator support panel modified to let the radiator forward. The butler head lights were removed and lost:( Sadly this one has been owned by my family since new and is way to far gone for me to restore to original:(

[Lotz-A-Landies]

One of the things that usually happened with grey motor conversions were that the engine mounts for the 1.6 litre were removed as well as the cut out in the front cross member.

I have a 1951 that has been returned to the original 1.6 engine, but I also have a 1950 that was converted to a Holden grey and it will stay that way.

As for the 1.6 having a lot of torque, this is usually attributed to the early ones with the 4.88:1 diffs. If you have one of those vehicles, I'd be restoring it to original specs.

Diana

[JDNSW]

Both the Rover 1.6 and 2.0 motors and the Holden grey motor have (in good condition and tune) excellent low down torque compared to most modern engines. The Rover engines however do better than the Holden in that as well as good low down, they are happy to run at 4,000rpm.

This is a result of the low compression and long stroke, plus a flywheel that is relatively heavy for the engine size, and is emphasised by the low idling speed compared to modern engines.

This characteristic has been largely lost with the quest for increased efficiency and power as well as the requirement to reduce emissions.

(And many engines from earlier periods are even better!)

John

[mildred]

Be good if you could put it back to original. My 50 model was converted during the late seventies and severely butchered:(
The gearbox and Xmember moved back, front Xmember cut out and replaced with 4" angle, radiator support panel modified to let the radiator forward. The butler head lights were removed and lost:( Sadly this one has been owned by my family since new and is way to far gone for me to restore to original:(

you could disown them and buy a morris 1000? :angel:

[mildred]

hi chasps

i have a 53 80" with a holden grey 138 on very poor welding it does start but i have not driven it, as i am about to do a total rebuild with new wiring, paint job etc should i replace the engine before i get to carried away with the rest of the job

ta garth
Yes:)

[Larry]

It is really up to you, of course:) ..................... But the vehicle will still be a delight with the holden - so I wouldn't be too concerned either way. ;)

What he said.:p:D

[russellrovers]

One of the things that usually happened with grey motor conversions were that the engine mounts for the 1.6 litre were removed as well as the cut out in the front cross member.

I have a 1951 that has been returned to the original 1.6 engine, but I also have a 1950 that was converted to a Holden grey and it will stay that way.

As for the 1.6 having a lot of torque, this is usually attributed to the early ones with the 4.88:1 diffs. If you have one of those vehicles, I'd be restoring it to original specs.

Diana
hi diana inthe big shed hanging from the roof is a 1951 with a very good 138 motor you can not stop it it spent 30 years collecting logs from the samford hills nr brisbane second owner was was a toolmaker and he had a novel idea of linking hand brake to foot brake going on together regards jim :D:):D:):D:wasntme:

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>
second owner was was a toolmaker and he had a novel idea of linking hand brake to foot brake going on together regards jim :D:):D:):D:wasntme:But did the novel idea make the 80" brakes any better?

Nice to hear from you Jim :) :)

(I hear I've burned all my bridges with Tom P! - Oh well I'm an outcast once again.)

[groucho]

(I hear I've burned all my bridges with Tom P! - Oh well I'm an outcast once again.)
Do you want a hanky..:D

[Lotz-A-Landies]

(I hear I've burned all my bridges with Tom P! - Oh well I'm an outcast once again.)Do you want a hanky..:DNo just Tom and Jim are friends.

[back_in]

HI all
WHEN YOU HAVE TO CUT THE GUTS OUT OF SOMETHING TO PUT SOMETHING ELSE IN IT
it is not a Land Rover as such
yes Holden donks were used
try putting a car back to what it was after some CLOWN has cut and shut it, to put something in it that was not designed for in the first place
sorry it is like putting a 1000 h p engine in a 34 Bucket and saying it is a historical vehicle
yes I am a stirrer
I can speak from one who as spent years putting cars back to what they were, or as near as i can
there I have done it again
however in saying that, do not stop enjoying what you are doing to put the Marque back on the road how ever you do it
cheers all
Ian

[Tote]

I had an open mind as to whether I would leave the 186 in my 107 or not. After pulling the engine the answer was obvious, the quality of the conversion was such that the amount of work to reregister it outweighed the work to put a Rover motor in it. I've nothing against the Holden conversions but they need to be done well to work.
I also have an XT Falcon Ute with a 351 in it, years ago I spent lots of time and effort enginering a Supra 5 speed conversion into it but was never really happy with the result. I blew up the Supra box a couple of years ago and put a T5 from a AU Falcon in it, the different box transformed the ute, much smoother, stronger and a pleasure to drive. It all depends on whether the conversion is well thought out and properly engineered.

Regards,
Tote

[Landy Smurf]

i would keep an eye out for an original motor but if you cant get one its not the end of the world better off having a restored 80in with a holden motor then not being restored at all,good luck to you

[Lotz-A-Landies]

HI all
WHEN YOU HAVE TO CUT THE GUTS OUT OF SOMETHING TO PUT SOMETHING ELSE IN IT
it is not a Land Rover as such
<snip>We've had this discussion before.

O.K. if a Holden powered Land Rover is not a Land Rover, please explain to me what it is?

I know it's not a Holden.

[Hartley]

I think you need to imagine the Land Rover is restored. How will you feel when you open the bonnet and see a Holden in there? What do you think when you see Holdens in other people's Land Rovers?

[Landy Smurf]

I think you need to imagine the Land Rover is restored. How will you feel when you open the bonnet and see a Holden in there? What do you think when you see Holdens in other people's Land Rovers?
good way of putting it

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I see a Holden powered Land Rover.

The same as I sometimes see an Isuzu powered Land Rover and at other times I see a Rolls Royce powered Land Rover or a Detroit powered Bedford and other times I see a Cummins powered White, or a Cat powered ACCO.

We are not talking about sacrosanct untouchable closer to godlike machines, we are talking about a utilitarian vehicle designed to do a purpose. In Australia, Rovers were and are always more expensive to repair, difficult to acquire parts for engines and pragmatic Land Rover users wanted their vehicles to be useful and economic. Before service stations became supermarkets, you could acquire parts for Holden engines at 9 out of 10 service stations and every machinery or auto parts store in Australia had Holden engine parts on the shelf. Something that could never be said and still isn't true about Rover engines. Holden powered Land Rovers without having overdrives, hi-speed transfer boxes or diff replacements could and still do, get along the road at 90-100KPH and remain in top gear up all but the steepest hills, while Rover powered Series Land Rovers were and still are often the mobile road block travelling 20-30 KPH slower than the rest of the traffic. Rover 4 cyl and 6 cyl Land Rovers were always in one to two gears lower than the Holden engine up hill.

I still like to see Land Rovers running, restored or not with OEM engines and similarly pragmatically I appreciate Holden powered Land Rovers.

[bobslandies]

I think you need to imagine the Land Rover is restored. How will you feel when you open the bonnet and see a Holden in there? What do you think when you see Holdens in other people's Land Rovers?

As long as you mind your own business and don't start sounding off about some other owners car - restored or not - you can think what you like.

Bob

[gromit]

Restore it to original or not, always promotes an interesting discussion......

My Series 1 has a Holden carby and aircleaner, I will change it once I find a correct original but it has many, many other period modifications:-
Home made hardtop
Home made welder running off PTO
Additional fuel tank
Door locks
Storage system
Fold down bed
Coil over conversion
Overhead storage locker
Cable operated wipers
Home made roofrack for a Tinny, outboard & fuel tanks.
Etc, etc

Restore it ? No I'm keeping it as it is. I may repaint the interior of the homemade hardtop and tidy up the storage system but otherwise just routine repairs.
Put it back to original ? Maybe some items like the carby but generally no.
But having said all that I generally prefer to keep vehicles as original as possible, this one is unusual so I'll keep it as found.

The Holden engine conversion, if done well, is a period modification and I wouldn't automatically change back to the original engine.

Everyone has their own ideas/likes/dislikes but we are all different, a few of my dislikes (on Land Rovers) are :-
Paint jobs that are far, far better than the original factory finish.
Radial tyres instead of crossply (usually fitted for 'safety' reasons)
Multi coloured, plastic shrouded wiring harnesses with masses of extra fuses fitted (again for 'safety' reasons).
Those should fire a few people up :)

It's always nice to have correctly restored, original vehicles that can be used as a benchmark. But if used as a benchmark they must be correct. I remember when the National Motorcycle Museum opened in the UK there was a torrent of criticism because a lot of the bikes were not correctly restored. The argument was that people went to the museum to see how their bike should be restored and the 'benchmark' wasn't correct.

Anyway, original or not, get it back on the road and actually use it.
If you make any modifications, try and make them easily reversible.
If it has 'period' modifications why not keep them, you could change it back to 'original' in future years.

Must get in the shed tonight and count some rivets........


Colin

[chazza]

Top post Colin!

It appears that you and I have similar taste :D

Some I can add to the list of dislikes:
1. Gaudy plastic battery in the "original" engine compartment, rather than a rubber-cased one; however; I accept that rubber-cased ones can be hard to find :)
2. Not applicable to Land-Rovers - chromium plating on pre 1930's cars restored to "original" condition, which should have nickel plating.
3. Brightly coloured high-tension leads - even in the 1970's all of the new cars I remember had black leads.
4. Veteran and Vintage cars with spray-painted finishes, rather than brush-painted with coach enamel,

Cheers Charlie

[subasurf]

I think you need to imagine the Land Rover is restored. How will you feel when you open the bonnet and see a Holden in there? What do you think when you see Holdens in other people's Land Rovers?

What do I think?
I think ¨here is a Landy that isnt being let down by the gutless POS original motor¨

[gromit]

1. Gaudy plastic battery in the "original" engine compartment, rather than a rubber-cased one; however; I accept that rubber-cased ones can be hard to find :)


Thanks Charlie, batteries are another one of mine. It is possible to find black plastic ones that don't look too out-of-place (mines a calcium battery in black plastic) but the brightly coloured ones always look odd when the bonnet is lifted.

Maybe we need to put together a list of where to find some of these items i.e. suppliers for rubber cased batteries, crossply tyres (there have been some discussions on here in the past), 'old fashioned' copper cored HT lead (in black of course) etc. etc.
Another forum I use (nothing to do with Land Rovers) has a section where they list bearing numbers, suppliers etc. etc. This has proved very useful keeping the wife's car on the road.


Colin

[frantic]

Fix up the holden motor(or put in a 186 if that fit) and also change the brakes to disks, then you can have a landie that goes AND stops!:D
Seriously most holden swaps where done for reliability and to adapt the landie to Aussie conditions. If you want a full resto. car do that but if you want an original looking landie but a bit more fun to drive + safer add a few things like better brakes, springs, shocks,a better radiator, stronger driveshafts and if it's got the low gearing try and get an overdrive with better tyres/wheels and keep the original tye wheel combo in case you change your mind or sell it to someone who wants to restore.

[subasurf]

I guess it all comes down to usage.
Is it gonna sit on the garage and only come out occasionally to show off? Or it going to be used...the way a Landy should?

[3 Sisters]

I think you need to imagine the Land Rover is restored. How will you feel when you open the bonnet and see a Holden in there? What do you think when you see Holdens in other people's Land Rovers?

Australian ingenuity.
It's an Australian Land Rover, restore it as one. What's more common in an Aussie Landy, Holden, or Landy donk?
Do you have a corgie, or a catle dog? Were you born here of English decent? Do you continue with Brittish traditions or Aussie?
I see an Aussie Landrover how they should've been made. Wish Holden had made a deisel that was used.
I say put an electric motor in it, get it ready for the next stage of Aussie ingenuity;)
That's what I'm going to do when time/cash permits(and hopefully batteries get better).
Does my arse look big in this flame suit?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>
Maybe we need to put together a list of where to find some of these items i.e. suppliers for rubber cased batteries, crossply tyres (there have been some discussions on here in the past), 'old fashioned' copper cored HT lead (in black of course) etc. etc.
<snip>
ColinThere used to be a thread like that one! :confused:

If anyone can find it, (re-activate it or PM me the link) then I'll stick it and it will always be in the group at the top of the list.

Diana
Moderator S1 section

[LRO53]

We've had this discussion before.

O.K. if a Holden powered Land Rover is not a Land Rover, please explain

MMM interesting so that would make the New 2007 - Defenders not Land Rovers anymore as they have Ford Engines.

I think a land rover is a land rover what ever engine it has in it. From Jet Engine to a Holden 202

[123rover50]

Thanks Charlie, batteries are another one of mine. It is possible to find black plastic ones that don't look too out-of-place (mines a calcium battery in black plastic) but the brightly coloured ones always look odd when the bonnet is lifted.

Maybe we need to put together a list of where to find some of these items i.e. suppliers for rubber cased batteries, crossply tyres (there have been some discussions on here in the past), 'old fashioned' copper cored HT lead (in black of course) etc. etc.
Another forum I use (nothing to do with Land Rovers) has a section where they list bearing numbers, suppliers etc. etc. This has proved very useful keeping the wife's car on the road.


Colin

Just bought a couple of metres of the black copper cored spark plug wire last week. Made by Narva and stocked in Gympie by Repco. Befor that I was having trouble finding it.

[Landy Smurf]

MMM interesting so that would make the New 2007 - Defenders not Land Rovers anymore as they have Ford Engines.

I think a land rover is a land rover what ever engine it has in it. From Jet Engine to a Holden 202
good point

[fordpwrds2]

restore it to how you might need the car to perform
if your driving the old landy to get bread the 1.6 l will do but if you want to go places and need reliability i would say 186, land crusier 4 speed gearbox and transfer with sailsbury rear 4.7 and some nice parabolics
:)

[Landy Smurf]

hmmmmmm sounds familiar

[Tote]

With a few new projects coming out of the woodwork I was thinking about this some more. It seems that the quality of a lot of these conversions is so low that you would never get the vehicle past the engineers inspection necessary to re register so the easiest path is to put a Rover motor in.
Anyone got a conversion that's done to a reasonable standard?

Regards,
Tote