TD5 coolant level

[crl]

My 2000 TD5 Auto D2 always has only a small amount of coolant in the expansion tank, the level sits so low that I struggle to see it. If I top it up it has always worked its way back down again.

Does anyone else's TD5 run at such a low level all the time?

If mine is a rarity is it something to worry about or is it just part of the unique personality that each D2 has?

There is no sign of water in the oil and there is just the usual aircon puddle under the car after driving and whilst idling. The temp gauge has never gone above normal.

Any thoughts?

crl

[Fluids]

Well, the coolant is going _somewhere_ !!

If there's no visible external leaks, then it's an internal leak inside the cooling system somewhere .... more likley, you've got a head gasket on the way out :(

Put a small coke bottle under the expansion tank overflow/purge pipe, and cable tie it in position. Top up your coolant, and then go for a drive ... any coolant in the coke bottle ? If yes, the cooling system is being pressurised by a failing head gasket, leaking into the cooling system.

Kev..

[scarry]

This is what you don't wanna hear,never top up mine between coolant flushes,which is every two years.....

The coke bottle thing is the way to go.Another place they leak is out of the hole on the side of the water pump.
I would also have a real good look around the engine bay with a torch.

Good luck.

[AussieAub]

Well, the coolant is going _somewhere_ !!

If there's no visible external leaks, then it's an internal leak inside the cooling system somewhere .... more likley, you've got a head gasket on the way out :(

Kev..

Hey Kev,
I'm not starting an argument, or trying to dismiss your opinion here (you'll know far more about this stuff than me, I can be sure of that!), but surely if the leaks are internal, or gaskets are gone, then the expansion tank would be totally dry wouldn't it?
If there is always "some" coolant in the tank, then surely it's not necessarily a gasket, or the dreaded "head job"?

My V8 always sits about 1 inch below the min mark on the tank. It's had a head job too a while back, has recently been pressure checked again and all that jazz, and every time I top her up to the min mark, she'll just drop back down to the previous level and sit there. I've stopped worrying about now!

Just a question....

..:: KIEREN ::..
2000 Disco II Auto V8
Object Of Mass Consumption
AussieAubs Disco Page (http://aussieaub.blogspot.com)

[disco_thrasher]

Well, the coolant is going _somewhere_ !!

If there's no visible external leaks, then it's an internal leak inside the cooling system somewhere .... more likley, you've got a head gasket on the way out :(

Put a small coke bottle under the expansion tank overflow/purge pipe, and cable tie it in position. Top up your coolant, and then go for a drive ... any coolant in the coke bottle ? If yes, the cooling system is being pressurised by a failing head gasket, leaking into the cooling system.

Kev..


or failed expansion tank cap which what happened to mine

[sniegy]

Not trying to preach to the unknown, but you are checking the coolant level when cold?
It will always read lower as it is under pressure when hot, but overnight it will cool & the level will rise again.

Cheers

[Blknight.aus]

take the cap off, start it up, check the return line for areation. let it do high idle for 10-15 minutes to warm it up and check again, do notput the cap back on while it warms up.

still no bubbles? then its not likely to be the head unless its shifting under full load/temp conditions.

turn it off, top the level up to about an inch under the normal cold level marker.

dust the threads of the tank with talcum powder and put the cap back on, dust the cap with talcum and go for a drive.

if the powder gets wet then its time for a new cap.

[Hitower]

If there is always "some" coolant in the tank, then surely it's not necessarily a gasket, or the dreaded "head job"?


AussieAubs Disco Page (http://aussieaub.blogspot.com)

Hi Kieren

This can be true. However if the coolant is to low then you may have air in the system, allowing the head gasket problem to go unnoticed until it is too late as there is no coolant being pushed out the expansion overflow.

I was having a problem with the loss of coolant due to over pressurisation of coolant system. It was only noticeable when I would top up the expansion tank. It drove me nuts as I couldn't see an external reason for it.

Eventually bit the bullet and removed the head. Low and behold, the head gasket was in the advanced stages of failure. Blowing between pots 2 & 3 and a small evidence of blow by between number pot 1 and the water jacket on the front left of the gasket.:mad:

I'm glad I went down the path of removal of the head as it saved me many thousands of dollars in a cooked engine. In the end it only cost me parts, head check and my time, all up $1,100.00.:) Money well spent I recon.

Car runs great and coolant level hasn't moved off the full level for weeks now.

By the way my car is a 2000 TD5 manual.

Hope this helps your decision CLR.

Regards Tony

[Fluids]

Hey Kev,
I'm not starting an argument, or trying to dismiss your opinion here (you'll know far more about this stuff than me, I can be sure of that!), but surely if the leaks are internal, or gaskets are gone, then the expansion tank would be totally dry wouldn't it?
If there is always "some" coolant in the tank, then surely it's not necessarily a gasket, or the dreaded "head job"?

My V8 always sits about 1 inch below the min mark on the tank. It's had a head job too a while back, has recently been pressure checked again and all that jazz, and every time I top her up to the min mark, she'll just drop back down to the previous level and sit there. I've stopped worrying about now!

Just a question....

..:: KIEREN ::..
2000 Disco II Auto V8
Object Of Mass Consumption
AussieAubs Disco Page (http://aussieaub.blogspot.com)


Kieren ... Possibly, but since these kinds of failures manifest themselves in all different manners, it could be a real slow leak, and if left _long_ enough would go dry ... or not.

... no offence taken mate :)

If your V8 drops a little, and then maintains a stable level from there on, then I'd say that's just due to overflow/expansion and _your_ particular engine is happy at that level ... I haven't topped my Td5 up in 16,500km (since the last flush). The level remains the same (a little higher when hot, lower when cold).

Kev..

[Fluids]

or failed expansion tank cap which what happened to mine

Yes! That's a good point ... but the coke bottle trick will show up, at least, that you're purging coolant ...

So, check the cap AS WELL :)

Kev..

[biggin]

I have had similar issues with coolant level.
First thing I did was fit an enginesaver for peace of mind.
Much later I spotted a weep from the left side top of the radiator near the hose. This was 6 months ago - must get it fixed soon.
FYI, even though the level in the expansion tank is quite low, it has never run dry and I don't bother topping it up any more.
I too was very worried until the blokes on here helped me out.
Good luck.

[Coota1]

Always a hard thing to diagnose. Have had two head gaskets go (not on LR's) both leaked just enough to be burnt off through the exhaust so no apparent water in the oil, just loss of coolant until they finally let go altogether.

[crl]

Thank you all for your replies.

I have checked the return and it looks ok at idle but once I let it sit at 2000rpm for a minute or two the fluid changes, it's not what I would call aerated more sort of tinged with white. It could be aerated and it doesn't look like I thought it would but the white makes me think of emulsified oil. Checking the dipstick the oil is still black so I am guessing that a small amount of oil is making its way into the coolant as opposed to the other way round.

Whereas until very recently the level always sat low it is now slowly dropping with every drive, so instead of checking the fluids every couple of weeks I now check it every day.

Presuming the head gasket has gone, which sound pretty likely from the info people replied with, is it ok to drive around as long as I keep it topped up?

[strangy]

Thank you all for your replies.

Whereas until very recently the level always sat low it is now slowly dropping with every drive, so instead of checking the fluids every couple of weeks I now check it every day.

Presuming the head gasket has gone, which sound pretty likely from the info people replied with, is it ok to drive around as long as I keep it topped up?

Dont commence any repairs without knowing. Best to get a proper check done for your own peace of mind.

If I had alternative transport, I would park it till I knew what was wrong.
Its your choice, whatever the problem is, continued driving risks a new motor instead of the initial repair.

Cheers.

[crl]

Well after dropping the car into my local Land Rover dealer the cure was to replace the radiator and the water pump (again). While they were at it they noticed the fuel pressure regulator was leaking (again) so that will get replaced too.

Whilst it is there I am getting them to replace the ABS shuttle valve (or words to that effect) which should keep the 3 amigos at bay for now.

I realise that owning a TD5 D2 that there are common faults with the model that will have to be repaired along the way (oil in injector harness, fuel pressure regulator etc), I would have thought that once these were done they were done for some time. I stupidly thought that since these are common faults that the replacement parts might have been improved to avoid a recurrance of these common problems. I am now starting to run through the list for a second time which I am finding extremely annoying, especially since the repairs have failed well before the original parts did.

When will it all end?

[strangy]

Well after dropping the car into my local Land Rover dealer the cure was to replace the radiator and the water pump (again). While they were at it they noticed the fuel pressure regulator was leaking (again) so that will get replaced too.

Whilst it is there I am getting them to replace the ABS shuttle valve (or words to that effect) which should keep the 3 amigos at bay for now.

I realise that owning a TD5 D2 that there are common faults with the model that will have to be repaired along the way (oil in injector harness, fuel pressure regulator etc), I would have thought that once these were done they were done for some time. I stupidly thought that since these are common faults that the replacement parts might have been improved to avoid a recurrance of these common problems. I am now starting to run through the list for a second time which I am finding extremely annoying, especially since the repairs have failed well before the original parts did.

When will it all end?

Sorry to hear this for you.

But stop right now and think about this.

WHY?

Why replace the waterpump again? why did it fail again this time?
Dont think for one second that a replacement Shuttle valve (or words to that effect) will fix anything.
"Words to that effect" ....... what does that even mean?
Are you spending money on a vague stab in the dark repair?
Is your mechanic honestly asking you to pay for something that he /she isnt sure of?

To be honest, I think something is amiss with your repairer and parts. You havnt mentioned how many kms for replacement or time?
These faults are not matter of mystery anymore, even for the home repairer, so for a dealer to be playing this game is a joke.

Somethings very wrong here to be doing these things again.
Where is the warranty on repairs?
It is not unreasonable for the repairs you mentioned to carry through till the end of the vehicles usable life. By usable life I would suggest 350 to 400kms

cheers

[crl]

Sorry to hear this for you.

But stop right now and think about this.

WHY?

Why replace the waterpump again? why did it fail again this time?

I got it done at a place close to work for convinience with n after market part so quite possible the part was shoddy.

Dont think for one second that a replacement Shuttle valve (or words to that effect) will fix anything.

Bugger.

"Words to that effect" ....... what does that even mean?

It means I can't remember the full name off the top of my head.


Are you spending money on a vague stab in the dark repair?
Is your mechanic honestly asking you to pay for something that he /she isnt sure of?

To be honest, I think something is amiss with your repairer and parts. You havnt mentioned how many kms for replacement or time?

About 3 years for the fuel pressure regulator (genuine) and 12 months and two weeks for the water pump (after market).

These faults are not matter of mystery anymore, even for the home repairer, so for a dealer to be playing this game is a joke.

Somethings very wrong here to be doing these things again.
Where is the warranty on repairs?

Expired for both, missed water pump warranty by two weeks!

It is not unreasonable for the repairs you mentioned to carry through till the end of the vehicles usable life. By usable life I would suggest 350 to 400kms

That's what I would have thought too!

cheers

Thanks for your comments mate.

[strangy]

Hi mate,

Re: the shuttle valve switch. Make sure it is tested before you change it out. Not just presenting as suspect via the diagnostics equipment. There have been a few instances of changing without testing and the fault reappear within days or hours after the job.
I realise you may not have the equipment to do this yourself, but if you have the procedure printed (from the good oil) out you may be able to watch your repairer do it. Your repairer should do this test anyway after changing out the switch. Its only 5 minutes with a multimeter.

As for rest of it, my goodness, timing couldnt be worse.
All the best with it.

Cheers

[crl]

Thanks for your tips Strangy.