Replacing Holden 202 with LR Diesel 2.25 engine

[tangiers]

Please could I have some opinions:

I have a Series 3 with a Holden 202 Red Motor. I've spent a fair bit on it (!) and am looking to have the gearbox and clutch taken out as I am told it needs to be reconditioned. A Series 2a owner told me (when getting a lift in mine) that I'm likely to keep having gearbox problems with the more powerful Holden engine. Coupled with this, the Holden's fuel consumption is horrific.

I was thinking that if I have to have the gearbox taken out, it might be the right time to put an original LR engine back in. I've always preferred diesels (they just sound right in a 4x4) but I am told the LR 2.25 is really slow?

My questions are:

1. Is the Holden 202 motor likely to cause gearbox problems in the future? The motor is otherwise fine - and I'm aware that the fuel savings of changing motors never justifies the costs.
2. Is the diesel motor really slow/under powered? I will use the car to travel short distance (15km/day) in the city only - I never get to go off road.
3. Is replacing the motor with a diesel a very expensive exercise? Am I right in thinking that it would save costs to do it at the same time as having the gearbox reconditioned?
4. How much does a decent diesel engine go for?

Appreciate any advice.

[Hardchina]

I got 14L per hundred in my 186 109" (hwy)

What sort of k's are you getting?

[tangiers]

Anything between 22-27 l/100 km (city).

[Hardchina]

Anything between 22-27 l/100 km (city).


I don't know anything about the diesel motors, but i do know it will be easy to drop that figure way down - assuming the 202 is semi ok mechanically.

what carb / manifold are you running? have you checked the vac advance unit?

[coops71]

Im not sure of the exact economy figures but my old 2.25 diesel series 3 109 was getting fantastic economy. I used to be able to top out 83km/h on a flat road and it was noisy. Great diesel sound though.

[chazza]

G'day Tangiers,
15km per day in city driving is defined by most manufacturers as "extreme operating conditions" - in other words the sort of driving conditions that will return the worst fuel economy and the greatest wear in an engine. From your worst consumption figure, I estimate you are getting about 10mpg, which is bad but probably about normal for stop-start driving and a six cylinder engine.

Do you drive with a heavy foot? I have read on this forum that high revs in 1st and 3rd gear contribute to the gearbox karking it. Conversely; driving with a light throttle will have the detrimental effect of coking the engine, combined with the fact that your engine and transmission are probably not getting hot enough over 15km to work efficiently.

Pardon me if these suggestions seem trite, or if you have considered them already. To eliminate or reduce some of the above problems:
1. Take public transport, or cycle.
2. Drive with moderate throttle only, to conserve the gearbox and fuel.
3. Get an LPG conversion - fuel consumption will probably be worse but the hip pocket will be heavier :D if you do enough kilometres. I agree with you that converting to another fuel rarely pays for itself but this may be cheaper than a diesel conversion.
4. Make sure that the engine is in top-tune i.e. iridium spark plugs; new high-tension leads, distributor cap, etc; check the valve clearances; change the air cleaner; service the carburettor; adjust the ignition timing; pump up the tyres to the highest recommended pressure; check for dragging brakes and adjust as necessary; remove all unnecessary weight from the car; use Premium petrol only.
5. Don't try and keep up with modern traffic; drive with moderate throttle; throttle off early when approaching a queue; avoid heavy braking and use the engine as the brake.
6. If none of this works consider a lighter smaller car with a microscopic engine - a S3 is really the worst imaginable car for city driving, except of course for the enjoyment factor :D

Cheers Charlie

[Hardchina]

except of course for the enjoyment factor :D

Cheers Charlie


Getting a smack to the head with a rock filled sock would be more enjoyable. :p

[tangiers]

thanks for the reply. Although fuel consumption is an issue, it's not that important given the distances I travel (to the station). What I am really seeking advice on is whether it is worth having the clutch and gearbox reconditioned if the Holden motor will just chew them up again. I've only had the car for a year now an it was like that when I got it (noisy clutch, clipping gears etc). I'm not very heavy on the accelerator, but the gearing ratio ineviably results in high revs (on the highway, anything above 70km makes it sound like it wants to take off!).

If the Holden motor, driven reasonably, won't be a problem, then I may leave it. But equally, if replacing it with a diesel motor is not too expensive and will give a the gearbox a longer life, I'd be tempted....

[rofosixone]

haveing had a 109 diesel s3 it av 10 L/100KM (28MPG) city or 8L/100KM (31 OR 32 MPG) country driveing which is good but was slow and noisey and very hard to stay at 100km level or 110 downhill speed wise but realy 90km was best flat out speed av on level road .eventualy got rid of it because was going to be very expensive to replace motor (now parts very hard to find here),and ended up puting a holden 202 ,power isue was fixed on or off road and new top speed 110 level /120 downhill (remember gearing still same) but easy 100km av on level ,than later put LPG on holden and was av 12mpg city or 14 mpg country but being LPG was very cheap to run ,cheaper than ex diesel $$$$ wise per km //// .on the std gear box ,there not designed for holden higher HP and if you fang it like i did you will break layshaft first and weaken rest (and notice oil leaks etc from seals not use too extra presure put on them ).realy gearbox is no good for that motor .i fixed breakages by puting a tri matic holden auto box but only had 2wd ,very expensive conversion but with LSD diff still went weird places .have seen nissan 2 ton truck 5 speed gearbox (think called caraball ,i know i spelt it wrong) behind a 202 and other motors at expo and landrover club trips in other peoples series and is highly rec by them owners but do you want to spend big $$$$$ for that conversion .my answer to that is yes if you want to keep it a very long time for trouble free driveing (once that gearbox is in ,you will find now you will break free wheel hubs or axles before any thing else drive line wise ).suming up holden motor and series gearbox is a no no but if you drive with a soft foot (dont fang it and use top heavy duty clutch or gearbox parts , not cheap rubbish (thats why things break easy) than you could sorta live with it /and cheaper long run ).but realy i later on changed to 84 110 v8 and now 96 range rover v8 ,with them dont need to modify anything /thats were all your above questions and answers and problems with speed and breakagers are fixed up with these factory heavy duty std later land rover models ,think its called up dateing as well but do miss old 109 and 88 that i use to drive in a funny way - both with holdens /at least can drive them into rivers and not worry about computors or carpets geting wet untill water reaches the base of your dizzy that is (in a holden).

[Blknight.aus]

yes the diesel is easier on the boxes and the clutch if you dont ride it to death and let the low reving wide torque thing work for you.

I may be removing the 2.25 NA from fozzy and dropping in a tdi300, If I go that way theres a line on a diesel for you right there.

[korg20000bc]

yes the diesel is easier on the boxes and the clutch if you dont ride it to death and let the low reving wide torque thing work for you.

I may be removing the 2.25 NA from fozzy and dropping in a tdi300, If I go that way theres a line on a diesel for you right there.

I was reading somewhere of people in the UK putting in a 200TDI without the turbo- calling it a 200DI. The theory being the lack of turbo power is easier on the series drive components.

Any thoughts on that?

[Blknight.aus]

yep, the 200di is more or less the 2.25 diesel with direct injection and a better fuel pump that you can tweak more easily than the old clunker in the 2.25.

do it but do it differently

leave the turbo on but set up the boost compensator via a pnuematic switch on the 4th gear position so that the compensator doesnt know about the boost coming on so wont fuel up the engine unless your in 4th. 4th will just about handle full power from a tdi200 so a minor wind back would be needed.

you can do the same thing to a tdi300 but theres a little bit more work in that which IMHO is offset by the ease of obtaining all the parts for the tdi300 at reasonable cost.

[isuzurover]

1. Is the Holden 202 motor likely to cause gearbox problems in the future? The motor is otherwise fine - and I'm aware that the fuel savings of changing motors never justifies the costs.

Yes, but depends how you drive it.



2. Is the diesel motor really slow/under powered? I will use the car to travel short distance (15km/day) in the city only - I never get to go off road.

IME the 2.25D only really feels underpowered on hills on the highway. It will keep up with a 2.25P or 161 with a few tweaks.



3. Is replacing the motor with a diesel a very expensive exercise? Am I right in thinking that it would save costs to do it at the same time as having the gearbox reconditioned?

Cost me ~$1200 to do it myself.



4. How much does a decent diesel engine go for?


Mine cost me $800 for a recon long motor, and $200 for a dead motor with all ancillaries.

[Blknight.aus]

I got 2 2.25Diesels for free just from patients and good will jobs.

then theres the one in fozzy that I paid $1600 for a SWB to get hold of and because the failed roadworthy fault took me all of 2 minutes to fix I had that thing on the road for 12 months or so before retiring it.

[jerryd]

I'm wanting to put a diesel into my Series3 to replace the holden motor eventually,Early days yet but Dave, is this a project that you'd be willing to assist on ??

[Blknight.aus]

series Spanner spinning? sure.