Buying a D4...

[circlethewagons]

Guys, I am looking at buying a new D4.

I am coming out of a Prado D4D and am considering the V8 (I am a hoon at heart...).

I had a Freelander in 1999 and after that experience a Disco Td5, neither of these worked out well and both spent at significant time in the workshop. Since then I have had only Toyotas and a Mitsubishi, all had no problems apart from the Mitsu being very expensive to service.

So ...
1. Is reliability still an issue with the D4 (probably a slightly biased audience I know :-)
2. What are the real service costs like for the V8 (and the Diesel)? I had a deal with Toyota where it was only $180 every 10K km.
3. I do a bit of off road, nothing serious, bush track and beach mainly. I see the V8 has 20" rims. Any options of AT tyres for this size wheel?
4. Are any rear drawer systems around for the D4?

Thanks in advance.

[Disco4SE]

Hi circlethewagons,
The reliability issues changed dramaticaly when the D3 was introduced (for the better).
It will cost you more than $180.00 for a service. Not sure of cost difference between the diesel & the V8.
There are more tyre options for the 20" rim compared to the 19", but you will have more chance of damaging a rim with the 20".
I think there are options for the rear draws.
There are others on this forum that can probably add to your queries.
My opinion is to go for the 3.0Lt Diesel. More torque at lower revs, heaps better on fuel, heaps better resale.
Cheers, Craig

[mowog]

Coming from Prado to a 3.0L TDV6 the D4 will feel like a like a rocket.

Are there actually any D4 V8 owners on here?

[eddomak]

I had a Freelander in 1999 ... neither of these worked out well and both spent at significant time in the workshop.

I feel your pain, having had the Freelander 1.8 Xei (new head gasket at 27,500km, new engine at 37,000km etc)

I only bought another LR after doing extensive research and finding out the FL2, RRS, & D3 have all significantly improved. (Having said that, LR is still last on the JD Powers survey each year)

I have bought a D4 3.0 SE.

I would advise budgeting an extra $2500 for an extended warranty that will cover you for another 3 years or 60,000kms more.

[Jesse B]

Count me as another vote for the 3.0 diesel - more than enough grunt for pretty much most (safe) hoonery, I reckon! Put the extra moolah into other goodies. :cool:

[ADMIRAL]

Guys, I am looking at buying a new D4.

I am coming out of a Prado D4D and am considering the V8 (I am a hoon at heart...).

I had a Freelander in 1999 and after that experience a Disco Td5, neither of these worked out well and both spent at significant time in the workshop. Since then I have had only Toyotas and a Mitsubishi, all had no problems apart from the Mitsu being very expensive to service.

So ...
1. Is reliability still an issue with the D4 (probably a slightly biased audience I know :-)
2. What are the real service costs like for the V8 (and the Diesel)? I had a deal with Toyota where it was only $180 every 10K km.
3. I do a bit of off road, nothing serious, bush track and beach mainly. I see the V8 has 20" rims. Any options of AT tyres for this size wheel?
4. Are any rear drawer systems around for the D4?

Thanks in advance.
Do yourself a favour and read the threads on rims for D3/D4's. There are plenty on the forum. Essentially if you are into the harder off road work, and you have some respect for your rims, the 19" std rims on the 3.0lt are a disadvantage. The 2.7 lt comes std with 18" rims, but can be retrofitted with 17" rims. The 3.0lt cannot downsize as the brake rotors & calipers are larger.

Do some research before committing.

[Dorko]

Only Research you need to do... is;
1) Check your bank account
2)SE or HSE... then buy a 3L D4! :D

Dorko

[Disco4SE]

I agree Dorko. The more I drive my 3.0 the more it seems to loosen up and gain more power & torque.
I'm sure that anyone who drove the 2.7 for a period of time, then drove the 3.0 for the same period of time, would forget about rim size.

[Dorko]

Without a doubt Disco4SE.... pffft the rim size is no war stopper. Just need to learn to drive and understand the D4. Once you work out its behavior its a tough machine!

Dorko

[DiscoWeb]

Guys, I am looking at buying a new D4...
and am considering the V8 (I am a hoon at heart...).


Circlethewagons,

As you would no doubt be aware the V8 only comes in HSE spec, which is great but pushes the pricing well up.

From all reports the 3.0L Diesel is an awesome engine and with the SE version you get most of the fruit and the option to spend the extra cash on some additional fun bits.

The 2.7 TDV6 in the D3 and lower spec D4 is also a highly capable engine, might not satisfy your inner hoon :burnrubber: but I think it would surprise you and either way, any of the engine options will be an improvement over the Prado Diesel.

Servicing costs will be higher than a Toyota, accessories are harder to find but reliability has improved significantly V's early LR models. I think you can buy with confidence now (but I would say that as I own one, but after 1 year no problems).

The key issue is that a D4 is simply a much better vehicle, on road and off road than the Toyota, so what every you choose you should be impressed :BigThumb:.

Regards,

George

[circlethewagons]

Well I've had a bit of an about face...

I spent a while driving the V8 and the 3.0 Diesel and I've decided to go for the Diesel.

I am going to be using the LR Corporate Program so that gets me free regular services for 3 years, a discount and some other freebies.

Option-wise getting the e-Diff, Surround Camera, Adaptive Bi Xenon, Auto High Beam, Keyless Entry, TV and Upgraded Sound System.

Thinking about the premium leather pack, but we'll see. I go in to sign on Monday.

Probably get White, although Silver is on the cards.

It'll all come down to the trade on the Prado and the $$$ the dealer can do.

[tempestv8]

Sounds like a good choice. I think that the 3.0 TDV6 may satisfy the hoon in you. And it's a good thing that the vehicle has the bigger brakes so you can stop too! ;)

See if you can squeeze the dealer to swap out the tyres for a more offroad bias... if you are planning on taking it on some mild 4x4'ing.

[ozscott]

The Admiral gave admirable advice and it was blown aside with the school boy gleam of those who dont want to go offroad...thats fine if you dont....but acknowledge good advice when you get it. I suspect many D4 3.0 owners on here are going to be soccer dads with theirs. If you do want your new LR to live up to the reputations off road that developed with the D1 and became entrenched with the D2 you might like to think with your forebrain about tyre size - its far more important actually that the locking diff, the traction control and the electrickery knob on the centre console (ie the knob that makes novices look good).

Cheers

PS. All those extra kilerwasps and talk' are not going to help the D4 3.0 with its drug lord chromies stuck up to the sills in the deep sand when the D3/D4 2.7 with its still very liveable power and torque comes idling by and has to snatch you out. SO IF, you want to go offroad (as the Hyundai(?) people used to say) please consider...

[gghaggis]

And your personal experience with D3's and D4's together in sand is ...??

I remember you making virtually the same wildeyed statements 4 years ago about the D3........ Some things never change :no2:

Don't worry CircleTheWagons - the D4 on 19" rims will run rings around the Prado, and you'll need a D3 on oversize tyres (on 17" rims) to keep up. Adding it up, I've taken over 30 D3's and 10 D4's over the same sand obstacles, never seen a D4 struggle where a D3 doesn't.

Cheers,

Gordon


The Admiral gave admirable advice and it was blown aside with the school boy gleam of those who dont want to go offroad...thats fine if you dont....but acknowledge good advice when you get it. I suspect many D4 3.0 owners on here are going to be soccer dads with theirs. If you do want your new LR to live up to the reputations off road that developed with the D1 and became entrenched with the D2 you might like to think with your forebrain about tyre size - its far more important actually that the locking diff, the traction control and the electrickery knob on the centre console (ie the knob that makes novices look good).

Cheers

PS. All those extra kilerwasps and talk' are not going to help the D4 3.0 with its drug lord chromies stuck up to the sills in the deep sand when the D3/D4 2.7 with its still very liveable power and torque comes idling by and has to snatch you out. SO IF, you want to go offroad (as the Hyundai(?) people used to say) please consider...

[ozscott]

On any offroad vehicle the larger the profile the better the vehicle is...both in terms of ability and reliability in terms of tyre longevity...that is the simple truth. Go the 19's! Yeah baby! I love them! Off roaders for years have been missing the point they should have gone little black straps and big rims ages ago.

Cheers

PS. Its all relative. The D2 tyre choice on 16's was better again than the D3 and my comments about the latter remain...even 4 years down the track (time does not change it!)

[ozscott]

I suppose my point is that good advice was offered and mocked...the guys that have that advice to give will stop posting in this area (and yes I expecting the quote of this last sentence and a "good, we dont want your type...)

Cheers

[Disco4SE]

With you all the way Gordon (gghaggis)
Go the 3.0Lt circlethewagons

[ozscott]

Without a doubt Disco4SE.... pffft the rim size is no war stopper. Just need to learn to drive and understand the D4. Once you work out its behavior its a tough machine!

Dorko

Arrghh....that must be the answer then...its where I have been going wrong.

[roamer]

Arrghh....that must be the answer then...its where I have been going wrong.

Just maybe 19" aren't as bad as you think, as opposed to what others who are using think. Time will tell but you seem to already know.
Cheers Ken :angel::angel:

[ozscott]

Just maybe 19" aren't as bad as you think, as opposed to what others who are using think. Time will tell but you seem to already know.
Cheers Ken :angel::angel:

Why then is ghaggis (who is berating me for berating those that berated the Admiral...gets tortuous doesn't it) trying to source 18's in this thread...http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/105896-18-rims-disco-4-3-0lt.html

And my bet is that if 17's or better still 16's fitted the D4 brakes the above thread would be about sourcing those rims rather than 18's....

Cheers

[Disco4SE]

I think that investigating the 18" rims has more to do with tyre choice rather than capabilities, which appears to be the topic.

[ozscott]

Apart from the fact that it simply cannot be sensibly argued (as appears to be being posited) that a 19 is as good off road as a 16/17 (and for that matter an 18 but even 18 is too big), if it is about tyre choice doesnt that speak for itself then...about getting decent rubber...to get that you need the smaller rim.

There is at least one other thread on the D4 board about the problems with 19 inch rims off road. I am not the only one talking about it.

Cheers

[Piddler]

We do a lot of sand driving here
2 things lower tyre pressure and momentum.

The hp of the 3.0 D4 should make it an absolute treat.

My 2 cents worth

Cheers

[ozscott]

We do a lot of sand driving here
2 things lower tyre pressure and momentum.

The hp of the 3.0 D4 should make it an absolute treat.

My 2 cents worth

Cheers

Hi mate - couldnt agree more about tyre pressures and momentum. The problem with 19's is low pressure does not make much difference to the footprint and momentum cannot always be guaranteed (for example getting half way into a deep cutting and having someone come the other way)...and towing heavy with a 4wd sorts things about quickly in sand.

PPS. Dont get me wrong fellas, if I could have 16 inch wheels with plenty of profile height AND the 3.0 TTD I would be in utopia.

[tempestv8]

I will back ozscott re tyre profile and rim sizes.

Good as the D4 is with 19" wheels, it would be even better if it could take 17". Just as there is no substitute for cubic inches, there is also no substitute for high profile tyres....

Can't argue facts.... :angel:

[gghaggis]

Sigh .... here we go again.

There is no argument that the D4 3.0 ltr would be better on 18/17/16/12" rims. HOWEVER - this is a fantasy - they don't exist.

The point (that I find I have to keep clarifying) is that in sand, the D4 3.0 ltr on 19" rims will outperform a D3 2.7 ltr on 17" rims. As will a D3 V8 on 19" rims. The 19" tyres are remarkably good in sand, and added to the huge difference in torque + better terrain response of the D4 3.0 ltr, this makes it a better sand package. OzScott seems to know better - I'm sure he's driven countless D3/D4's over sand and compared them.

I've never said that there are no issues with using 19" rims - you have to make allowances for them, especially in rocky terrain. I've fitted rim protectors to partially address that particular issue. And the tyre choice is rather restrictive. These are the reasons as to why I'm trying to source 18" rims. NOT because I'm scared of getting stuck in sand and needing OzScott's D2 to pull me out :mad:

Cheers,

Gordon

[gghaggis]

The problem with 19's is low pressure does not make much difference to the footprint and momentum cannot always be guaranteed

That's just not true - the 19" tyre has a larger radius of curvature, and will increase it's longitudinal footprint as quickly for the same reduction in tyre pressure. The width ('bulge') won't increase as quickly, but that doesn't contribute much to the footprint size.

Cheers,

Gordon

[ozscott]

These are the reasons as to why I'm trying to source 18" rims. NOT because I'm scared of getting stuck in sand and needing OzScott's D2 to pull me out :mad:

Cheers,

Gordon

Mate - even though you are grumpy with me I would still pull you out:D

Cheers

[ozscott]

That's just not true - the 19" tyre has a larger radius of curvature, and will increase it's longitudinal footprint as quickly for the same reduction in tyre pressure. The width ('bulge') won't increase as quickly, but that doesn't contribute much to the footprint size.

Cheers,

Gordon

Having aired down 19 inch low profiles on the beach versus 16 inch high profiles there is a massive difference in lengthening of footprint. Width is not that important - agreed on something!

[CSBrisie]

GGhagis, "Rim protectors" - can you elaborate on this? direct me to more info?
cheers
Chris

[gghaggis]

Having aired down 19 inch low profiles on the beach versus 16 inch high profiles there is a massive difference in lengthening of footprint. Width is not that important - agreed on something!

Here's something else we can agree on - you haven't driven/watched a D3 on 17" rims and a D4 on 19" rims up the same sand dune, have you?

Cheers,

Gordon

[gghaggis]

GGhagis, "Rim protectors" - can you elaborate on this? direct me to more info?
cheers
Chris

Chris,

I'll email you the details

Cheers,

Gordon

[ozscott]

Here's something else we can agree on - you haven't driven/watched a D3 on 17" rims and a D4 on 19" rims up the same sand dune, have you?

Cheers,

Gordon


Gordon - you know I have not. I accept that you clearly have. That is not the end of the matter though as, if you also were willing to concede reasonable propositions, you would accept. The off road ability of any vehicle is adversely affected each time a manufacturer keeps the overall diameter the same (roughly) and increase rim size - there is simply no escaping that. Your reply no doubt will criticise me for an assessment of wheel size without having driven the D3/D4 with various wheel combinations back to back - so be it; as I have said that is not decisive and avoids the issue which is this - low profiles are worse off road than higher profiles.

Cheers

PS. I have given my opinion. I will (try) to say no more on the point.

[gghaggis]

I am happy to concede to a reasonable proposition - say something along the lines of:

The D4 3.0 ltr would be an even better off-roader if it had 18" rim options.

Perhaps you should concede that the 19" rims on a D4 are not that bad in sand? Because you are NOT making a reasonable proposition when you you paint the following picture:



PS. All those extra kilerwasps and talk' are not going to help the D4 3.0 with its drug lord chromies stuck up to the sills in the deep sand when the D3/D4 2.7 with its still very liveable power and torque comes idling by and has to snatch you out. SO IF, you want to go offroad (as the Hyundai(?) people used to say) please consider...


The above is the idiotic statement that somewhat irks me. :angel:

Cheers,

Gordon


Gordon - you know I have not. I accept that you clearly have. That is not the end of the matter though as, if you also were willing to concede reasonable propositions, you would accept. The off road ability of any vehicle is adversely affected each time a manufacturer keeps the overall diameter the same (roughly) and increase rim size - there is simply no escaping that. Your reply no doubt will criticise me for an assessment of wheel size without having driven the D3/D4 with various wheel combinations back to back - so be it; as I have said that is not decisive and avoids the issue which is this - low profiles are worse off road than higher profiles.

Cheers

PS. I have given my opinion. I will (try) to say no more on the point.

[Disco4SE]

Thank f*&^% for that. Hopefully this is the end of the debate.
FYI: Still with you Gordon

[ozscott]

Fair enough mate. I accept that my first remarks were somewhat inflammatory but I was peed off at the fact that a reasonable comment was made and then simply disregarded by others. I think that the way I wrote it (drug lord chromies) etc and the fact that I was clearly going overboard to prove a point, should have been taken into account, but alas not.

Cheers

[Disco4SE]

The End

[GeorgeK]

Well I've had a bit of an about face...

I am going to be using the LR Corporate Program so that gets me free regular services for 3 years, a discount and some other freebies.

Hi Criclethewagons,

Congrats on your decision to go with the D4 Diesel. I don't think you will regret it. I notice you are going to use the LR Corporate Program. I know about the free services and a discount (maybe) but what 'freebies' are they throwing at you?

Cheers

GeorgeK

[CSBrisie]

Good question GeorgeK - I just bought on the Program too - got a discount and free servicing .....and a 4 month wait!:D

[AGRO]

Hi BlackPerth,

I've recently purchased under the Corporate Program.

The LR Website has a section on the Corporate Program.

I believe LR does the following

1.. 3 years servicing
2.. Reduction in dealer delivery cost
3.. LR carpet floor mats
4.. A factory rebate depending on the vehicle ie FL2, Disco, RRS etc

I'm yet to see the Factory Rebate though.

[CSBrisie]

Ah yes, I recall they did mention free mats too (woooowwwwww) :p

[circlethewagons]

Yeah they give you free mats and a detail (wash & vacuum) at each service (although my Toyota dealer does this for me now anyway as part of my 'Genuine Advantage' deal).

On a side note I bought my wife a VW Passat a year ago and wanted to get the VW mats (coz nobody makes mats like the Germans\Polish\South Africans..) and almost needed CPR when they told me they were over $350.00 (for 4 bits of tailored carpet). He did try to convince me that these mats were specially engineered for Volkswagen...can you imagine the 'Mat Engineers' job, 5 years at Uni to make car mats I said, maybe it is worth it, after all they probably had these same mats in the Panzers and Tigers that overtook Western Europe sometime back - the benefits of a cosy, mud free interior when your invading a neighbouring country really can't be underestimated.

I see that LR is similar in Accessory mark-up $1800 for cross bars etc.

I am heading in today to do the negotiations...hopefully he'll stump up more of an incentive than some carpet squares.

[CSBrisie]

:D LOL!!!!

[trobbo]

On a side note I bought my wife a VW Passat a year ago and wanted to get the VW mats

That's interesting cause my 06 Jetta had mats as standard.

[ADMIRAL]

Yeah they give you free mats and a detail (wash & vacuum) at each service (although my Toyota dealer does this for me now anyway as part of my 'Genuine Advantage' deal).

On a side note I bought my wife a VW Passat a year ago and wanted to get the VW mats (coz nobody makes mats like the Germans\Polish\South Africans..) and almost needed CPR when they told me they were over $350.00 (for 4 bits of tailored carpet). He did try to convince me that these mats were specially engineered for Volkswagen...can you imagine the 'Mat Engineers' job, 5 years at Uni to make car mats I said, maybe it is worth it, after all they probably had these same mats in the Panzers and Tigers that overtook Western Europe sometime back - the benefits of a cosy, mud free interior when your invading a neighbouring country really can't be underestimated.

I see that LR is similar in Accessory mark-up $1800 for cross bars etc.

I am heading in today to do the negotiations...hopefully he'll stump up more of an incentive than some carpet squares.
I bought the LR mats, and regretted the decision. They are average fit in the front and nothing special. The rears are a hopeless fit and will not stay in place. Honestly, get some suitable carpet, cut it to shape, and have it trimmed. ( or head off to Cheapauto parts....the quality won't be any worse )

[Dorko]

I got LR rubber mats... absolute brilliant! perfect fit and easy to clean!

Dorko

[DiscoWeb]

I got LR rubber mats... absolute brilliant! perfect fit and easy to clean!



Dorko,

Same here, the rubber mats are great, fit perfectly, rear ones lock together and remove easily for cleaning.

They came with the car, not sure I would made the decision to buy them of I was asked to pay a lot for them as an option. However with hindsight they are brilliant for keeping mud and crud off the carpets when travelling and off road and with 2 young kids has saved some stains and damage to carpets etc.

George

[Disco4SE]

With you there too George. Mine came with the car, fit great and are easy to clean

Cheers Craig

[Celtoid]

With you there too George. Mine came with the car, fit great and are easy to clean

Cheers Craig

My mats (carpet) came with the car...supposedly premiums....front are OK but the locking device in the actual car carpet is quiet loose but they sit OK. I'm just worried that this anchor will come away in time.

Rear's are rubbish, kids constantly ram them under the front seats.

Glad I didn't pay for them.

The LR badge is nice on the front's though....I suspect I'll pry those off when it comes time to change.....:D

[ADMIRAL]

It was suggested to me that the rear mat would be better as a one piece. The idea has merit. If the mat was looped over the transmission tunnel, it would not only provide extra protection, but have a good chance of staying in place. I think trimming up a carpet scrap is the way to go, at least for the rear.

I use deep mud mats when we go off road though, so the carpets come out for the really dirty stuff.