Wheel bearing play

[MinniTheMoocha]

Just wondering if excessive wheel bearing play can cause vibrations/wobbles?

The reason is I just put on new tie rod ends/heavy duty steering components. (Due to a weekend in Toolangi tackling Rocky Track - made it up mind you) Had a wheel alignment and the car drove straight but got the wobbles at about 85-90Km/h.

Had the wheels balanced again and this improved it somewhat so that I don't have any real problems till about 100-105km/h.

But it seems that if I am turning or decelerating I can get the wobbles not as severe as before but disconcerting none the less.

Tonight I lifted the front end up and checked the bearing play in the wheels and noticed it was a moving about 2mm (using the disc rotor play as a guide)

Is this a little too much play and could this be the cause of the wobbles?

Thanks

[Blknight.aus]

yep, 2mm of play at the rotor is way to much play...

[JDNSW]

As Dave says - 2mm wheel bearing play is way too much. But the wobbles are more likely to be due to free play or lack of preload on the swivel bearings. I would be checking both carefully. Note that after fixing free play on either swivels or wheel bearings wheel alignment will have to be checked again.

John

[MinniTheMoocha]

Well that's another job before Big desert next week!

Is it just a matter of tightening up the bearings or would you recommend their replacement?

Oh what's the easiest way to test if its swivels because it really only looked if the play was in the bearings not from the swivels?

[JDNSW]

Well that's another job before Big desert next week!

Is it just a matter of tightening up the bearings or would you recommend their replacement?

Oh what's the easiest way to test if its swivels because it really only looked if the play was in the bearings not from the swivels?

Tightening the bearings would probably work, at least short term, but you really ought to disassemble and look at them - and once you do that new bearings are not all that expensive.

Actual play in the swivel bearings is easy to check - with the wheel off the ground, have someone hold the footbrake on to lock the free play in the wheel bearings. Try to rock the wheel up and down - there should be no signs of movement. This does not test preload, to do that you need to disconnect the tierod and drag link. Measure the force needed to move the swivel with a spring balance - with the seal in place should be round 15 pounds, although the actual figure is not too critical; if this is a problem, the swivel will turn with almost no resistance, probably flop over as soon as you disconnect it from the track rod and drag link, although the seal may provide a little friction.

Another point to check is that there is absolutely no free play in the panhard rod. This is easy to check - In a decent light look down on the steering box, and watch if the chassis moves sideways at all relative to the axle housing as your assistant turns the steering back and forth.

John

[MinniTheMoocha]

Thanks for that John. I will check the bearing and swivel play tonight. That is as long as it is dry in my garage, outdoor one that is!

I wondered how you check the panhard rod bushes so that's great.

Will post the outcome.


Tightening the bearings would probably work, at least short term, but you really ought to disassemble and look at them - and once you do that new bearings are not all that expensive.

Actual play in the swivel bearings is easy to check - with the wheel off the ground, have someone hold the footbrake on to lock the free play in the wheel bearings. Try to rock the wheel up and down - there should be no signs of movement. This does not test preload, to do that you need to disconnect the tierod and drag link. Measure the force needed to move the swivel with a spring balance - with the seal in place should be round 15 pounds, although the actual figure is not too critical; if this is a problem, the swivel will turn with almost no resistance, probably flop over as soon as you disconnect it from the track rod and drag link, although the seal may provide a little friction.

Another point to check is that there is absolutely no free play in the panhard rod. This is easy to check - In a decent light look down on the steering box, and watch if the chassis moves sideways at all relative to the axle housing as your assistant turns the steering back and forth.

John

[Blknight.aus]

Well that's another job before Big desert next week!

Is it just a matter of tightening up the bearings or would you recommend their replacement?

Oh what's the easiest way to test if its swivels because it really only looked if the play was in the bearings not from the swivels?

the easiest way of identifing where in the axle the play is is to jack up the whole front axle and drop it on axle stands. then do a 12+6 rim rock test (grab the wheel top and bottom and rock it) if it rocks have an assistant step on the brakes and hold them while you repeat the test. IF the motion stops its the bearings if it doesnt its the swivels. With that done put your hands on the guard and push the vehicle left and right if it moves and clunks then its the pan hard rod/bushes. now try and push the vehicle back and forth any movement here is slack in the radius arms/bushes. (or its slipping on the stands)

if your going outside of phone help for a trip and not taking gear with you replace the bearings. bearings dont just go loose for no reason what can happen once can happen again and just occasionally a bearing failure results in a hub that cant be removed without severe irrepairable butchery.

[MinniTheMoocha]

the easiest way of identifing where in the axle the play is is to jack up the whole front axle and drop it on axle stands. then do a 12+6 rim rock test (grab the wheel top and bottom and rock it) if it rocks have an assistant step on the brakes and hold them while you repeat the test. IF the motion stops its the bearings if it doesnt its the swivels. With that done put your hands on the guard and push the vehicle left and right if it moves and clunks then its the pan hard rod/bushes. now try and push the vehicle back and forth any movement here is slack in the radius arms/bushes. (or its slipping on the stands)

if your going outside of phone help for a trip and not taking gear with you replace the bearings. bearings dont just go loose for no reason what can happen once can happen again and just occasionally a bearing failure results in a hub that cant be removed without severe irrepairable butchery.

The front right bearing was definitely too loose. Took the bearing out and it looked pretty much ok. I would have expected to see metal, scoring or pitting etc if the bearing had a serious problem. I have been running oiled hubs so think that I may have not done it up tightly enough but It was nearly two years ago.

I initially thought the front left was loose but it was just steering play as I didn't quite test movement in the right plane.

My travel kit includes bearing set so if worse comes to worse I will have to replace it.

The wobble has gone and I can now hit 110 without the steering wheel bouncing out of my hands!

[austastar]

The front right bearing was definitely too loose. Took the bearing out and it looked pretty much ok.
8<----------
The wobble has gone and I can now hit 110 without the steering wheel bouncing out of my hands!

Hi,
had similar when putting a new 130 in for roadworthy.
I had driven from Melbourne to Hobart, but had not noticed the steering wobble.
I was waiting for the inspection to complete, when I was called in to see the wheel wobble and was told it would not pass. They fixed it for me by inspecting the bearing and tightening it properly.
Landrover warranty picked up the extra cost incurred with out any argument.
cheers

[Blknight.aus]

My travel kit includes bearing set so if worse comes to worse I will have to replace it.


Strip it down and inspect the stub shaft as well as the inner of the bearing.

when they let go about 50% of the time they jam themselves onto the stub requireing some serious abuse to get removed..

GuyG's rangie had evidence of this having occurred previously on the cape york trip when he had a bearing go loose. Theres more than one post on the forum about it all going badly (but thankfully not tragically or fatally) wrong. If its the inner that locks on you're in with a chance but seizing the outer bearing on basically roots you completely.

They came loose for a reason. If you dont know what it was its time to find out.

[MinniTheMoocha]

Well it's definitely not the bearings.

After thinking the problem was gone I found that the wobble that I was getting from 95-100km/h had gone but it was now happening at 105-110km/h although not as pronounced.

So today I re-checked that there was no bearing play and put my muddies on for a Monday Toolangi/Murrundindi trip.

Then I went for a burn down the freeway. At 110Km/h it was spot on and for a brief moment took it to 120Km/h and it was still tracking straight with no wobbles at all so I am convinced that it can only be the wheel balance.

I had originally got all new tubes fitted and have already gone back once for them to re-balance them so it looks like I will have to go yet again.