Brake Drum Removal

[geodon]

Ok, both my front drums are reluctant to come off.

One of them has "been there before" & is damaged insofaras the dust excluder lip has been broken off, most likely due to the prev owner taking to it with a hammer to try to persuade it to come off. IMHO this one is not re-useable as it can no longer keep out the road crap.

Now,the drums are fastened to the hub with 3 short set-screws. Does anyone know what thread they are? At 1st glance they seem to be seven sixteenths BSW 14 but they are not as I tried to screw a similar bolt in & it siezed after 1 turn!

The reason I ask is that I would like to try to screw long bolts into the mounting holes to act as "pushers" & force the drums off- a technique I've used for years to remove rear VW drums via long bolts lnto wheel mounting bolt holes. I would turn the wheel to make sure they don't bear down on anything important. Anyway, the "push" required is not that great.

Note the impact screwdriver! Without that & a kitchen blowtorch, those setcrews would still be in there!
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Comments?

[Landy Smurf]

i think they are a fairly course thread,can you not use the threaded hole provided for pushing the drum off,i had a problem getting one off my s1 and i found the best thing was using screwdrivers,prier bars and wedges worked really well also you might need to file the edge/width of the hub to get it to slide off easier,just saw it was a front diff mine was rear wether that makes any difference

[101RRS]

Back the shoes off, remove the drum retaining screws, gently tap the drum around is circumference on the wheel side (loosens the shoes from the drum), put WD 40 around the base od each wheel stud and then gently tap with a block of wood from the back of the drum working your way around the circumference - do not concentrate on one area.

There is a a hole (not countersunk) in the wheel face of the drum to screw in a bolt to help remove the drum. If the above has not worked screw in the bolt but only enough to take up the tension. Tap the drum on the other side then take up the tension in the bolt again and repeat until the drum has slowly started to move. It must come out equally all around - if one side is coming out more than the other it will just jam up.

Garry

[JDNSW]

As Garrycol says. The threaded hole is the same thread as the screws you took out, from memory I would say 3/8"W not 7/16".

If it still won't move after all the above, try heating the drum hot enough to burn off the oil on it, avoiding getting the hub hot. As a last resort, you can always remove the hub complete with drum by undoing the wheel bearing retaining nuts.

John

[geodon]

John, you're dead right re the thread. The El Cheapo die set I use has 7/16W on the die that fits the 3/8 thread! Oh well! You get what you pay for!
I like the heating idea. This thing has been standing for a decade & prob has a lot of "fur" on the inside of the drums.
Mother hasn't noticed that the kitchen blow torch is missing yet! I will have to steal the oven mitts too.
It may be time to re-comission my trusty Comet3 oxy acetylene set if I can only stomach dealing with BOC again!
When will someone invent some throw-away welding gas containers for part-timers like me?

[JDNSW]

.....
It may be time to re-comission my trusty Comet3 oxy acetylene set if I can only stomach dealing with BOC again!
....

Having similar feelings about BOC, I now deal with Air Liquide - but it is still pretty expensive.

John

[Barney Bitza]

G'day,

Last weekend was spent struggling with the front drums on Barney,
In the end I found it much easier to remove the hubs, mine also has selectro hubs and very seized wheel cylinders/shoes......
I dont think the extra bulk of the selectro's helps much with easy removal!

Cheers Sam

[dandlandyman]

If all else fails, remove the plumbing and mounting bolts from the wheel cylinders and everything should come off together, or at least create enough clearance to do it. Sometimes there is a huge lip behind the shoes and seized cylinders won't retract far enough toget past it. Hope it helps.

Dan.
69 2A 88" pet4, 68 2B FC pet6, more coming soon.

[drifter]

They must have belted it pretty hard to break that dust lip. If it's toast, like you suggested, I would just complete the job they started with a big hammer.

My front ones (I haven't tried the back ones yet) were also pretty well stuck on there.

I did the Garry trick (backed off the brakes, belted the drum a bit with the hammer & sprayed WD40 around the studs) and they were still determined to stay there - so I rotated the drum while belting it with the hammer and it came off pretty easily - without breaking anything.

[chazza]

I agree with you Geodon that the drum should be discarded, which probably means getting rid of its mate as well, as brake parts should be replaced on both ends of the axle. If nothing else; that drum is now out-of-balance :(

If none of the other methods work (removing the hub and destroying the seized wheel cylinder worked for me) chain drill a row of holes across the drum from the broken edge up to where the weep holes in the vertical face are. Do this in three paces about 120deg. apart and then whack the drum with a heavy hammer and it should break quite easily. Avoid drilling into the shoes which will contain asbestos most probably; so somewhere up the top near the wheel cylinder would be a good place to try.

The good news is that drums, cylinders, screws, springs and shoes are very cheap and it is worth replacing anything that looks too worn,

Cheers Charlie

[geodon]

I bought a length of 3/8th UNC (whitworth) all-thread & made 3x150mm long all thread set screws & screwed them into the mounting holes. They went about 100mm in so I reasoned they must be bearing down on the brake backing plate.

The undamaged drum came off . When I observed what was happening with my setscrews without the drum in situ, they did indeed go all the way to the backing plate.

Too easy. Now for the other one!

Again they went about 100mm in. And locked up. I added a a length of water pipe over the socket arm to increase leverage and......they snapped like twigs!

I've ordered another 3/8 W all-thread but this time in high tensile. I'll try again Wednesday

I tried to remove the plumbing & mounts on the top wheel cylinder but that seemed to expand the shoes & lock up the drum.

If the the high tensile route doesn'tr work I will look at making a gear puller that attaches via the drum fixing screws & pushes down on the axle mid point.

Comments?


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[JDNSW]

I bought a length of 3/8th UNC (whitworth) all-thread & made 3x150mm long all thread set screws & screwed them into the mounting holes. They went about 100mm in so I reasoned they must be bearing down on the brake backing plate.

The undamaged drum came off . When I observed what was happening with my setscrews without the drum in situ, they did indeed go all the way to the backing plate.

Too easy. Now for the other one!

Again they went about 100mm in. And locked up. I added a a length of water pipe over the socket arm to increase leverage and......they snapped like twigs!

I've ordered another 3/8 W all-thread but this time in high tensile. I'll try again Wednesday

I tried to remove the plumbing & mounts on the top wheel cylinder but that seemed to expand the shoes & lock up the drum.

If the the high tensile route doesn'tr work I will look at making a gear puller that attaches via the drum fixing screws & pushes down on the axle mid point.

Comments?




You need to be screwing the threaded rod into the tapped hole in the drum, not the mounting holes - they provide no pressure on the drum itself. I suspect you are about at the stage of cutting or breaking up the drum to remove it and ordering a new pair of drums!

John

[geodon]

Thnx John!

Thats why the good drum came off. I used the threaded hole plus 2 mounts.

As my teenage daughters would often say to me : "Well DERRRR, Dad!"

I was blinded by past VW experience where the wheel bolts screw into the drums so the threads in the drums can be used to push.
But your pointing out my stupidity gave me an Idea: If I can weld 5/16W nuts onto the face of the drum, I CAN then push the drum off. The smaller bolts go straight thru the 3/8 threaded holes with only light contact. I can put a tap thru the drum mounts to clean them up later.

Which begs the question why didn't it work on the damaged drum?? On closer inspection, I saw one of the drum mounts is blanked off.
The penny drops!
The damaged drum has been put on without lining up the mounting screw holes. The push-off thread has lined up with a mounting hole! No wonder it has been clouted to attempt to get it off!

BTW at $75 each, I have already ordered new front drums. Considering the cost & problems of skimming, that's a bargain!

Well that caps off a day replete with stupidity. Today I accidentally discovered my Grey Fergy has been hard to start & running too rich not due to carb issues but because the air filter was blocked.

DERRR!

[JDNSW]

If the problem is that the pushoff hole is lined up with a mounting hole, try this idea.

Cut a short section of your rod and slot it to make a screw in plug to block the hole in the hub flange. Screw it in, making sure it goes below the drum, with some loktite to make sure it stays there. After a couple of hours, then screw in your pushoff screw, with a bit of grease on the tip.

You may have trouble welding nuts onto the drum - it is cast iron.

John

[chazza]

John is right about the welding, unless you buy some expensive rods such as Weldall.

Cheaper to drill and break the drum; once the periphery is free of the shoes the centre should come off with a few taps from the hammer,

Cheers Charlie

[geodon]

Success!

I welded some 5/16 nuts to some scrap angle then made 150mm pusher bolts with 5/16 all-thread rod. This made it easier to weld to the drum & gave me a chance to clean up trhe thread distortion in the nuts which occurs when you weld them and also made it easier to clean up the drum afterwards altho I will scrap them both.

Welding to the drums wasn't that easy but I kept the spots wide & deep. even so, the lower unit let go & I had to re-weld it on. That was where it was sticking. When it came out, the lower push bolt looked a bit like a banana!

The only aftermath was a slightly mangled drum mount thread which cleaned up perfectly with a 3/8 tap.


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If you try this yourself, make the pushers about 175mm. I ran out of thread & had to tap it the rest of the way.

[isuzurover]

FWIW - the screws to retain the brake drums are unnecessary. I removed mine in ~1995 and have never had an issue.

[Aaron IIA]

Why not just use a three legged puller on the drum, pushing on a block across the centre of the hub?

Aaron.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Success!

I welded some 5/16 nuts to some scrap angle then made 150mm pusher bolts with 5/16 all-thread rod. This made it easier to weld to the drum & gave me a chance to clean up trhe thread distortion in the nuts which occurs when you weld them and also made it easier to clean up the drum afterwards altho I will scrap them both.
<snip>.Glad to hear that the welded drums are headed for the scrap bin!

I hope you will also be applying some destructive forces to them so that no-one else ever attempt to use them?

Would not be a pretty sight when a drum fractures then shatters along the welding stress lines.

[geodon]

Aaron, I don't have a 3 legged puller & but if I did, what would I hook it on to apply the drag? Surely not the lip of the drum? That would require the Queen Mother of 3-legged pullers!

This way cost me about 5 bucks worth of welding rods, 5/16ths all-thread & nuts & I can use them again if needed.

[Aaron IIA]

Yes, the lip of the drum. Comes off in less than a minute. A hydraulic puller kit can be very useful.

Aaron.

[ezyrama]

John, you're dead right re the thread. The El Cheapo die set I use has 7/16W on the die that fits the 3/8 thread! Oh well! You get what you pay for!
I like the heating idea. This thing has been standing for a decade & prob has a lot of "fur" on the inside of the drums.
Mother hasn't noticed that the kitchen blow torch is missing yet! I will have to steal the oven mitts too.
It may be time to re-comission my trusty Comet3 oxy acetylene set if I can only stomach dealing with BOC again!
When will someone invent some throw-away welding gas containers for part-timers like me?

They are called a turbo torch, I sell em for about $98.00 and and cylinder for $20 all +gst. best thing since the battery drill IMHO!

[geodon]

So the oxy set is $98 & the disposable tank is $20? Don't I need 2: 1 acetylene & 1 oxygen?

Seeing the vampires @ BOC want about $100pa to hire their tanks PLUS I have to buy the gas, I'm interested.

Do you have disposable MIG gas as well?

[geodon]

Durafix Australia - Aluminium Fluxless Repair Rods (http://www.durafix.com.au/index.php?content=torches.htm)

They look promising but they don't exactly say "welding" of steel only bronze-brazing.

They do alot tho & they run off the BBQ bottle!

[Aaron IIA]

You can do a lot with a bottle of MAPP gas. These are the yellow disposable bottles. They are hotter than the propane kits. Another option is to use Oxy-Propane. Then you only have to rent one bottle. This way you can cut and weld also.

Aaron.