L322 td6 GM transmission oil & filter

[Daniel]

Fluid - I've carried out some research into td6 GM transmissions, and as far as i can tell, despite all the conjecture in respect of the correct fluid to use, any high quality latest spec auto transmission fluid is OK.

The industry specs are there for all to see and it's just oil companies attempting to claim that their fluids are better than others.
And at the time of the td6 release LR had some sort of collusive deal with Texaco hence their promotion of that brand at that time.

Filter - I've sourced a supply of international OEM transmission filters. If you send me a PM/email I'll advise of the cost to share the benefits of a reduced shipping costs of the import with you.:)

[PAT303]

It cost me $272 to get the service done. Pat

[Daniel]

It cost me $272 to get the service done. Pat

The filter/gasket kit will cost about $AUD65 delivered plus 5 litres of ATOl another $30 - should take about ½ - 1 hour to do by the looks of it.

From what I understand the LR part price for the filter is about $200 so for $272 they may have only changed your oil?

Did you get to see the old ATO or the filter?

From previous research on auto transmissions the colour and smell of the old ATO tells one everything about the condition of the tranny. The magnet on the bottom of the sump also gives one clues as to when a major rebuild may be necessary.

The state of the filter is usually reflected in how smooth the gear changes are.

[PAT303]

It was filter and fluid,I had to drive to Perth as no one in Kal can flush the convertor. Pat

[rick130]

So being a GM transmission does it require Dexron VI ?

If so, you'd be safe using any licensed Dex VI fluid.

[Daniel]

It was filter and fluid,I had to drive to Perth as no one in Kal can flush the convertor. Pat

Hi there Pat - $272! wow, I wonder what transmision fluid they ended up putting in? - I bet it wasn't the proper spec fluid.

The genuine filter costs about $250 and the genuine fluid costs $650 per 20 litres. My auto tranny service centre tells me that you need all of the 20 litres to do a proper flush.

So we have a total of $900 plus labour.:mad:

I'm told that most tranny flush places use cheap D3 fluid and not change the filter.

I'd be interested in hearing other's experiences......

[PAT303]

Well it's going better know than it ever has and the changes are smooth.I paid for a service and have the reciept so if they filled it with the wrong fluid and it goes bang thats their problem not mine.I was supprised at the difference it made and it will go back their in 50K to get it done again. Pat

[Daniel]

Well it's going better know than it ever has and the changes are smooth.I paid for a service and have the reciept so if they filled it with the wrong fluid and it goes bang thats their problem not mine.I was supprised at the difference it made and it will go back their in 50K to get it done again. Pat

Thanks for that Pat - can you provide the service centre's name and phone number? I'd like to ask them which ATF they use? If we can find a reliable and cost effective supply of ATF in Australia then all will be the better of for it!

I'd be interested, as today I spent a couple of hours chasing up Caltex, Castrol, Mobil, Shell, Valvoline, Fuchs - all categorically state that there is no distributor of ATF in Australia that complies with the manufacturer's specifications. When I contacted BMW they state that they get their ATF from BMW Germany and it costs about $800 per 20 litre drum.
Advice from a service centre is that the tranny holds about 8-12 litres including cooler lines etc and that a proper flush needs 3 times that amount. When the sump is removed to change a filter only about 4 litres is removed and renewed.

Research of other forums indicates that older L322 td6's and BMW Z5 td6's in UK & Germany have developed valve body wear after some 150k and that this has been more pronounced in vehicles that have been serviced with the ATF replaced with non genuine ATF. There are plenty of warnings about using non genuine spec ATF.

I stand to be corrected, but gear changing in an auto is dictated by hydraulic valves working within a very soft aluminium (for ease of manufacture machining) valve body. When the valve body wears the gear changes are softer and softer until they wear so much so they stop working effectively. Apparently mods have been attempted to insert hardened valve body bores and even these wear quickly with non genuine ATF - it's apparently that critical.

I know from experience with my GM700 tranny that when performance mods are made the gear changes become almost unbearably rough until they 'wear in' over time.

[Daniel]

So being a GM transmission does it require Dexron VI ?

If so, you'd be safe using any licensed Dex VI fluid.

Nope! - I was on the phone with the Castrol tech support guy for over an hour and they strongly discouraged using any of their D products.
D3 is the normal ATF that most service centres use.
D6 is usedfor those applications that specify it (synthetic) but I was strongly warned aginst using it by Castrol.

[PAT303]

I found the reciept,they charged $120 for synthetic oil,$80 for the filter and $74 for labour.They don't charge for flushing fluid as they recycle it. Pat

[Daniel]

I found the reciept,they charged $120 for synthetic oil,$80 for the filter and $74 for labour.They don't charge for flushing fluid as they recycle it. Pat

That's interesting as Castrol's synthetic ATF is TransmaxZ and is a partial recommendation for the BMW X5 V8 zf 6 speed tranny (same drivetrain as the L322 with BMW V8 engines running the zf 6 speed tranny) but the Castrol tech support advisor strongly recommended not using any synthetic ATF in the BMW X5 td6 GM 5 speed tranny (same drivetrain as the L322 td6).

Does your receipt list the brand and type of ATF or just "synthetic oil"?

It all sounds a bit sus.

[PAT303]

Just synthetic oil.Why did they say not to use TransmaxZ?. Pat

[LandyAndy]

Penrite do a fully synthetic suitable oil.Have 20lt in the shed.
It mentions Range Rover in the listings.
Can get the spec if you cant get it from Penrites website.
Andrew

[scarry]

Good to see you guys are onto this as i know someone who had one of these auto's changed by the dealer & it was VERY expensive.
He doesn't know what oil they have been using.

[PAT303]

What isn't expensive at the dealers.I'll run mine for the next 18 months and see how it goes. Pat

[Daniel]

Penrite do a fully synthetic suitable oil.Have 20lt in the shed.
It mentions Range Rover in the listings.
Can get the spec if you cant get it from Penrites website.
Andrew

Thanks for that Andrew.
But what model RR is listed?

The petrol L322 tranny (ZF 6 speed) has completely different ATF spec requirements to the diesel L322 tranny (GM 5 speed)

I got my local Penrite dealer to attempt a cross reference to the specified Texaco texamatic ETL-7045E and he came back and said "can't do".
All the lubricant manufacturers that I contacted were very wary about supplying any ATF that was not authorised by the tranny manufacturer.

[Daniel]

Just synthetic oil.Why did they say not to use TransmaxZ?. Pat

The Castrol guy was very wary about his synthetic ATF - TransmaxZ.
Although he admitted that his TransmaxZ was a direct conversion to the Esso conversion to the ATF specified for the zf 6 speed fitted to the L322 petrol RRs, he then went on to say that sometimes synthetic AFT is no better off than non synthetic ATF - it all depends on the tranny manufacturer's ATF specs. He then stated that vehicle manufacturers had even gone to the extent of having ATF tested for correct brand-specs when warranty claims were lodged and rejected if found to be using incorrect AFT. He strongly recommended that I find the Texaco ATF.

Once again, searching other forums came up with the startling news that this GM tranny is well known to give expensive problems with valve body wear when the the specified ATF is not used. There is also a strong recommendation out there that the ATF and filter should be replaced to help minimise normal wear to the valve body - contrary to the "sealed for life" sticker on the tranny.

Therefore, I continue to search for the Texaco ATF. I may have to import some from USA myself.

[Daniel]

OK - I've just about used up my research time allocation for this year.

The L322 td6 transmission is the European (Straussbourg France) GM manufactured 5L40E otherwise known as a Hydramatic and also fitted to a vast array of other vehicles including BMW in Europe and GM in USA.

GM pre 2006 specified Dexron III and post 2006 GM specifies Dexron VI.
Various lube manufacturers produce equivalent spec ATF although GM only authourises certain approved ATF for their transmissions and warn that any ATF that carry specs other than D6 are not approved and could prove harmful. Apparently about 2006 GM realised that the 5L40E produces more waste particles than they envisaged and to ensure a better longevity Dexron III was upgraded to Dexron VI. This tranny is known for clogged filters due to the waste particle issue hence the importance of renewing filters at every ATF change.
Most lube manufacturers still list D3 specs and are therefore not approved by GM for any of their transmissions.

Many of the more commonly available lubes are only to the D3 specs and therefore not suitable (and probably harmful) to any modern GM transmission.

Many fully synthetic ATFs including all of Castrol's (aka BP) and Mobil's (aka Esso) ATF products are not to D6 specs and are therefore unsuitable for use in the td6 GM transmission.

It appears that Penrite ATFDX6 (semisynthetic) is suitable. Penrite's ATF synthetic is not suitable.

Valvoline ATF Dexron VI (product code 1242) synthetc is suitable.
My local retailer stocks this under product code 1272.20 RRP of $310 for 20 litres.

My research indicates that power flushing as used by tranny service centres is not recommended due to the 100% chance of cross contamination with other fluids.
Apparently the only proper way to flush is to change the filter and ATF, run the truck for 20 kms renew the ATF, and then run for another 20 kms and then replace both filter and ATF. So minimum cost of AFT & filter change is cost of 2 filters and about 15-20 litres ATF. In Europe the recommendation is for ATF and filter change every 60k - 80k kms.

I'd be interested to hear from other researchers.

[PhilipA]

Wouldn't Holden dealers have the correct fluid seeing this trannie is fitted to High performance VE V6?????

5 speed automatic (Alloytec 195 V6 only): 5L40E (http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/ve/ve-specs.html#auto5)

Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

Just for your info Castrol lists this fluid for a VE Commodore 3.6 high output V6 which has exactly the same 5L40E as the RR.

Automatic Transmissionhttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/castr_au/pics/nodata.jpgCASTROL TQ DEXRON VI
Castrol TQ Dexron® VI is an automatic transmission fluid formulated to meet the requirements of GM Dexron® VI.https://www.aulro.com/afvb/Service Refill Capacity: 4.6 Litres
Regards Philip A

[Daniel]

Thanks Phil - when I talked to the Castrol tech support they could not help me and their web site does not list any GM dexron VI compliant ATFs -
I wonder where you got your info from??

None of the stuff you refer to works as links.pics or whatever you have included with your post.

I've never been much of a fan of Castrol products (BP actually marketed in Australia under the Castrol brand name) in line with their very expensive marketing campaign which has given the perception that they are somehow unique in quality.

Anyway to cut a longer story short the ATF that you specify is not sold in Australia.

Furthermore Castrol advise that they cannot supply any dexton VI products in Australia as they do not have the licence agreements in place with GM who specify the specs for dexron VI standards.

So thanks, but no good with that lead.
Looks like Valvoline synthetic ATF #1272 it is.

[PhilipA]

Huh? I googled Castrol Australia, then went to lubricants.
Selected VE Commodore, then 3.6 High output auto.
And the product came up, which I copied to my reply.

There , I have done it again for you.

Castrol Australia - NetLube (http://www.datateck.com.au/lube/castr_au/)

I wonder if the right hand does not know about the left hand, as there are PLENTY of VE Commodores around.
This is from a forum so may be incorrect but suggests that castrol Dexron VI is available, but maybe only from Holden dealers


The factory oil that is supplied in the VZ SV6 and Calais 5sp Autos is Castrol Dexron VI.

Penrite conforms to dexron VI
Penrite ATF Flyer (http://issuu.com/repco/docs/penrite_atf'mode=a_p)

[Daniel]

Yep - I can do that same search too - but the resultant product Castrol TQ devron VI is only marketed in USA - na in Australia.

I don't have any Penrite retailers in my area, but I suspect that their products may well be more expensive than the $300/20 litres that Valvoline costs.

I knew that Penrite ATF SYN was devron VI specs but according to the Penrite brochure that you found, Penrite devron VI semi syn is OK as well - wonder what the prices are for those products in the "big smoke"?

[PAT303]

Daniel,I'm driving to Cessnock at the end of next week,we could go halves in a 20ltr drum. Pat

[magic bob]

pat303, can you tell me where in perth you had your transmission serviced??
Magicbob

[Daniel]

pat303, can you tell me where in perth you had your transmission serviced??
Magicbob

Hi Magicbob

Based on what Pat has told us his tranny servicer was totally ignorant and cannot be trusted to do a proper service.
Anyone that refills a RR tranny with inferior (and icorrect) spec ATF and doesn't even realise what he has done should not be trusted - and that is typical of most workshops (unfortunately).

One either has to do the job one self or find someone that knows what they are doing.

I spent the best part of 2 weeks researching all over the world, trolling through various European and USA GM service bulletins before reaching the conclusions that the RRtd6 tranny requires GM spec ATF and anything else will be a potential disaster for the tranny.
I spoke to all lubrication oil manufacturers and most just were'nt willing to discuss the issues due to "liability issues". Finally I found a GM document that set out the issues regarding the valve body wear charcteristics and how GM have spec'd the ATF to cope with that factor.

Research with large km RRtd6 L322 in Europe has proved that only correct spec ATF will help prevent major early tranny failures. So called 'fully synthetic' ATF provides no assistance in this unless it fully complies with GM specs. Even the L322td6 manufacturer for LandRover stuffed this up with various BMW branded ATFs and finally they started colour coding their $900 20 litre drums of ATF in an attempt to get their service personnel to use the correct spec ATF. Frustratingly even that colour coding has become confused and cannot be trusted anymore.

regards, Daniel.

[Blknight.aus]

a total loss home flush and filter change takes between 20+25l to do + 5 more to refill it.

the short version is...

grab the rave (it tells you where all the parts are)


check the TX oil level before you start
remove one of the connectors on the oil cooler and fit clear drain lines to the cooler and line then place them into a graduated 5l drain container
run the engine at idle untill 2l of oil is pumped into the drain container
shut down the engine empty the 2l container into your waste oil drum
add 2l of oil to the auto
(you may be able to get away with fitting a gravity feed line into the fill plug direct from your 20l drum if you are going to try this fit it all up before you drain the first 2l out of the cooler)
repeat 3-5 untill one or both drain lines are flowing clean oil.
(one of the lines MAY start flowing clean oil before the other. IF that happens you can save this oil into a clean container and place it back into the auto. Once both lines are flowing clean oil pump out the last of that 2l from the sump.)
drain the last of the autos fluid out of the sump
change the autos filter and sump gasket
check oil level when you're done.


this method works for all of the cooler equipped autos and changes the oil in the converter.

the 4hp22 takes about 23l for the whole process with the last 3-4l being for the top up.

the GM behind the td6 takes between 20+30 depending on how contaminated the oil is to start with the last 5l or so is for the final fill.

[Daniel]

Thanks Dave

I understand where you're heading with this BUT given that the original ATF is meant to be sealed for life and given that the replacment filter etc is quite cheap it is simpler to just drop the sump and replace the ATF and filter every 50k km - 100k km.

This is especially so given that running a tranny with low ATF for even a few seconds can lead to total destuction of some components.

regards, Daniel.

[PhilipA]

Has anyone actually gone to a GM dealer and asked for the ATF for a 3.6 high output with 5 speed auto?
If so what was the answer. If obtainable that would seem to ally any fears of the wrong fluid.
Regards Philip A

[Daniel]

Has anyone actually gone to a GM dealer and asked for the ATF for a 3.6 high output with 5 speed auto?
If so what was the answer. If obtainable that would seem to ally any fears of the wrong fluid.
Regards Philip A

Hi Phil

My research is that despite a similar tranny being used in the vehicle that you refer to it has a completely different valve body. It is the valve body that is critical in repect of the ATF specs and hence GM specifies different ATF specs for different trannies.

The RR L322 td6 GM tranny was supplied by GM Europe from a factory in France to BMW in Germany who supplied it to LR in England. It's called the EEC and that's the way tit's done these days.

The correct fluid issue was resolved by my research a long time ago with Valvoline ATF #1272 being the way to go - it ended up costing $275 for 20 litres inc GST at a local supplier.
Also, I imported the filter/sump gasket kits from USA at a fraction of the local price.

regards, Daniel.

[Camo]

Sorry to bring out an old thread.

I have my 04 L322 in for a gearbox service next tuesday. The guys there recommend max life trans oil for my car. Looks like its compatible to Dexron VI

Valvoline.com > Products > MaxLife > Automatic Transmission Fluid MaxLife > MaxLife® DEX/MERC ATF (http://www.valvoline.com/products/brands/maxlife/automatic-transmission-fluid/37)

They say it will be about $250 but can be more if it needs a full flush..depending on the condition of the fluid I guess. This includes a filter aswell.

Should I be worried they are about to do the wrong thing?

Cheers

Camo

[101RRS]

I'm told that most tranny flush places use cheap D3 fluid and not change the filter.

You seem to think that the 6 speed ZFs use any old trannie oil that is lying around the shed - no true - probably even more restricted than oil used in the GM box. Based on prices talked about here the ZF oil is as expensive and probably more so than the GM oil.

So when you talk about cheap D3 oil just being thrown in - I can assure that while cheap oil may be going in - it ain't D3 ZF spec.

Garry

[harlie]

Daniel posted the GM Spec list here. I still think we need this doc in a better place.


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/l322-range-rover/105481-show-us-your-l322-4.html

The oil MUST be listed on the document and approval cross referenced with the oil manufacturers doc.

So what you need to do is check the Valvaline doco for these licence numbers
J-60151
J-60319
J-60313

[Camo]

I still don't fully get this.. Valvoline Max Life iscompatible to Dexron6

So basically I should get the transmission guy to use Dexron 6?

Valvoline.com > Products > Automatic Transmission Products > Automatic Transmission Fluid > Valvoline DEXRON® VI ATF (http://www.valvoline.com/products/consumer-products/automatic-transmission-products/automatic-transmission-fluid/36)

I called valvoline tech support but they can't help as the range rover is listed as sealed for life..

Cheers
Camo

[harlie]

The document that was posted by Daniel contains licence numbers that have been issued by GM for use in this box.

The 3 numbers I listed above are from this GM document. So if you give the Valvaline tech guys a call and ask them about these numbers they will know something about them. No-one has a listing for the L322 or X5 – this licence code is the only way to get it right.


On the linked page you have posted it states
"Officially licensed and GM approved" - I've had a quick look for the codes - Penrite publish them on their site for all to see - but looks like Valvaline don't. So call the tech support line and ask "what the Official GM licence numbers for this product are?" you need one of the following
J-60151
J-60319
J-60313

Anyone can claim that their product is Dextron VI, but GM have gone to the trouble of issuing a licence code for fluids they have tested - this is not unique to GM either...

[Camo]

Thanks Harlie

I got no where with valvoline regarding GM license number for Max Life. The tech support guy I had on the phone had no idea with regards those numbers.

This is very frustrating! I'm not getting Russels Automatics in Oxenford to service the trans unless I know Max Life is compatible.

Will keep at it.

Cheers

Camo

[harlie]

Here is an option…

The GM doc lists the following near the bottom of page 2:

Penrite Oil Company Pty Limited J-60312 Penrite ATF DX-VI

If you have a look at the following link under the heading Industry Specifications you can see the number…
http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/automatic-transmission-oils/atf_dx-vi (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/automatic-transmission-oils/atf_dx-vi)

[Camo]

Thanks Harlie

Will cancel the gearbox service for next week. Can't find any info about the Max Life. The rangie is at the local dearlership for a standard service today.. They are getting back to me on the details for a gearbox service. They say they can do it. Keen to see what type of fluid they use.

Cheers

Camo

[Camo]

Bruce Lyntons here on the gold coast use Texamatic 7045E Dexron3. Filter is $120 and 5 litres of oil is $80 + $250 in labour :angel:

No time to do it today.. Feel like getting the stuff and do it myself. I serviced an auto on a falcon I had years ago. Was easy.. Can't see it being much different.

Camo

[jase]

I know this keeps getting dragged up and going over and over but I’ve never really been 100% happy with any of the offered available alternatives actually 100% matching the oil spec of the recommended Texaco ETL 7045E oil and with the Texaco not being avail here have been scared of doing the wrong thing

Searching again I “accidently” googled BMW 7045e and got heaps of hits for auto trans fluid?? Eureka :)

Available in Aust (according to websites, I haven’t rung them all)
Nulon (in their specs it actual says equivalent to Texaco ETL 7045E :) ) and easily avail so this is my 1st choice

But also
Gulfwestern
Atlantic oil
Amsoil
Royal lubricants
Anglomoil (haven’t heard of them)

Just google BMW 7045 and see them in all their glory :cool:

Finally what I was after, written confirmation on and oil TDS of correct match to the Texaco oil :)
Jase

[rick130]

Jase, I'm pretty confident in saying that none of those brands on your list are actually Licensed Dex IV fluids.

They may claim to meet the spec through inhouse testing (or more accurately, through using an additive pack from someone like Lubrizol that meets the D.IV spec) but I doubt very much that they've submitted oil to GM for testing.

I stayed out of this thread for the most part, it was just going round in circles.

[fraser130]

I stayed out of this thread for the most part, it was just going round in circles.

Rick, I was wondering when you would "pop in"!!:D

Fraser

[Camo]

Jase, I'm pretty confident in saying that none of those brands on your list are actually Licensed Dex IV fluids.

They may claim to meet the spec through inhouse testing (or more accurately, through using an additive pack from someone like Lubrizol that meets the D.IV spec) but I doubt very much that they've submitted oil to GM for testing.

I stayed out of this thread for the most part, it was just going round in circles.

Ok fair enough.. what should we buy then?

Camo

[rick130]

Ok fair enough.. what should we buy then?

Camo

It is definitely a Dexron VI required for the transmission ?

If it is indeed a Dex VI fluid that's needed try and find a licensed one first, at least it's a guarantee that the stuff will do the job.
Someone mentioned that Penrite have one and there should be others.

Had a quick look and Castrol in Australia have an officially licensed one called TQ Dexron VI, Fuchs have their ATF 6000 SL which meets the Dex VI spec

Officially Dex VI replaced all other Dexron fluids and is backwards compatible with previous versions according to GM. In fact the Dex IV, Dex III, Dex II, etc are officially obsolete specs according to GM.

Having said that, if a company like Amsoil actually make a Dex VI type fluid I'd trust them, they make some excellent lubes, I just don't care for their marketing and they never ever officially submit an oil for licensing, they always say 'meets' a specification which is a bit mealy mouthed to me.

A poster on a forum I used to hang out too much on was actually a GM transmission engineer in the US and he was pretty adamant in pushing the licensed Dex VI brews as your only guarantee of performance.

Funnily enough on Castrol and Penrites's lube guide it says 'refer to dealer' for the auto transmission ?

[Sprint]

Wouldn't Holden dealers have the correct fluid seeing this trannie is fitted to High performance VE V6?????

5 speed automatic (Alloytec 195 V6 only): 5L40E (http://www.users.on.net/~nweber/commodore/ve/ve-specs.html#auto5)

Regards Philip A

Holden dealers *should* stock it, I know we have it at work, both as Fuchs ATF6000 and in 3.8 litre bottles of the GM branded stuff

when I'm back at work on tuesday i'll find out how much it is for a 3.8L bottle....

[PAT303]

Lifestyle 4wd in Perth use the Fuch fluid when they do changes. Pat

[tempestv8]

Just a bit of trivia - this is the same fluid for the 5 speed GM (France) auto transmission fitted to a 2004 & 2005 BMW X3.

:)

[tempestv8]

Just a bit of trivia - this is the same fluid for the 5 speed GM (France) auto transmission fitted to a 2004 & 2005 BMW X3.

:)

The info that i posted above is incorrect. For BMW X3 2004 and 2005 owners, please disgard that info. The correct fluid was Texaco ELT 8072B but has now been superseeded by Dexron VI (that's 6 not 4).

Sorry for the wrong (and mostly irrelevant to a Range Rover) initial trivia info.

[enoryt91]

THANK YOU! I have been searching for an Australian equivalent for 7045E for my BMW. Google lead me to your post. I registered on here to say thanks :P

[jx2mad]

Just looking at my L322auto rebuild (just before I bought it) and the auto transmission mob used dexron 6. Could this be why I am having ongoing problems with it? Jim

[Homestar]

Just looking at my L322auto rebuild (just before I bought it) and the auto transmission mob used dexron 6. Could this be why I am having ongoing problems with it? Jim

There are a couple of Dextron 6 fluids that are up to spec now, including the fluid that Nulon does. There is another one, but I can't recall the name off the top of my head. The guy that just rebuilt my trannie used the Nulon stuff, and said it was his pick of compatible fluids, due to price and availability. Does it say on the invoice what brand they used?

What problems are you experiencing with it anyway? Although I am no expert, I have done a LOT of research recently...:angel:

[tempestv8]

Jase, I'm pretty confident in saying that none of those brands on your list are actually Licensed Dex IV fluids.


I assume you really mean to say Licenced Dexron VI fluid, not IV. :p

[rick130]

I assume you really mean to say Licenced Dexron VI fluid, not IV. :p

and it's only taken someone six months to pick that up :lol2:

[PAT303]

Just an update,just before I sold my L322 I bought my gearbox oil direct from BMW,a couple of hundred dollars for 20ltres. Pat

[John L322]

Ok fellows, this thread has been a source of info and as I've scared off my local auto transmission guy due to oil specs I will do it myself over xmas if time permits. This is what I'm looking at doing and as yet have not read Dave's Rave as it is in the post.
1. Drop oil out of pan and remove pan and filter.
2. Replace filter, gasket and pan and plug.
3. Fill till overflow with Penrite ATF DX-VI Lic No. J-60312 available at supercheap autos, Repco etc

The pan is the reservoir for the oil pickup to pump to converter to cooler, I believe from flow charts.

4. Disconnect oil cooler return line, attach hose and drain to bucket.
5. Start motor and pump 1-2 litres out to bucket. Don't get hungury and pump too much out.
6. Stop motor.
7. Top up oil pan till full.
8. Repeat steps 5-7 till clean oil is being discharged.
9. Final oil top up with motor running and oil between 35-45C

A dry box requires 9.7 ltrs. This method should replace oil from the pump, torque converter, oil cooler and lines.

I'm assuming that the oil is pumped while the motor is running and transmission in park.:angel:

Comments please and what have I missed?

[Daniel]

Ok fellows, this thread has been a source of info and as I've scared off my local auto transmission guy due to oil specs I will do it myself over xmas if time permits. This is what I'm looking at doing and as yet have not read Dave's Rave as it is in the post.
1. Drop oil out of pan and remove pan and filter.
2. Replace filter, gasket and pan and plug.
3. Fill till overflow with Penrite ATF DX-VI Lic No. J-60312 available at supercheap autos, Repco etc

The pan is the reservoir for the oil pickup to pump to converter to cooler, I believe from flow charts.

4. Disconnect oil cooler return line, attach hose and drain to bucket.
5. Start motor and pump 1-2 litres out to bucket. Don't get hungury and pump too much out.
6. Stop motor.
7. Top up oil pan till full.
8. Repeat steps 5-7 till clean oil is being discharged.
9. Final oil top up with motor running and oil between 35-45C

A dry box requires 9.7 ltrs. This method should replace oil from the pump, torque converter, oil cooler and lines.

I'm assuming that the oil is pumped while the motor is running and transmission in park.:angel:

Comments please and what have I missed?

"What have I missed" - for a start one should never ever start an engine with the transmission other than full to the brim and all pipes connected and working under pressure!

The ATF pumped through the pipes is being done so for a reason - not to assist you to decant the system of the old ATF.

Unless you have a destroyed transmission and in which case it requires a complete overhaul it is a nonsense to attempt to do a complete ATF change over.

If you are that worried about leaving some of the old ATF in the system then repeat ATF dumps until you are satisfied.

Compared to the factory lifetime ATF spec you are way ahead after a filter change let alone changing most of the ATF.

[John L322]

Daniel,
Myself not being from a mechanical background but from the 'couldn't afford mechanic rates' as a young bloke but still enjoys tinkering, much to the SWMBO distaste would like more info if you have the time.
The system is pressure regulated with max pressure at start up to lubricate the clutches of the TCC etc. After initial start up and max pressure achieved and lubricated clutches, the ECU then dirverts some of this pressure through relief valves.:eek:
As long as there is oil in the pan to feed on I don't see the problem. How did the oil get there at the factory on initial build?:confused:
The fact I'm a tight bastard, with time and money, only want to do this once. Also that the orig oil is not available in Aust and only replacing 50% when the plug is pulled, then refilling with a different brand and grade, but approved, leaves me a little limp. But if I do this twice I will get 75% of the oil replaced which is not too bad, I suppose.
Another thing, my father said no to me as a kid so I will always look for another alternative around the said issue. Also my knowledge of auto boxes is minimal. Google is Great.:D

Cheers.

[Daniel]

Daniel,
Myself not being from a mechanical background but from the 'couldn't afford mechanic rates' as a young bloke but still enjoys tinkering, much to the SWMBO distaste would like more info if you have the time.
The system is pressure regulated with max pressure at start up to lubricate the clutches of the TCC etc. After initial start up and max pressure achieved and lubricated clutches, the ECU then dirverts some of this pressure through relief valves.:eek:
As long as there is oil in the pan to feed on I don't see the problem. How did the oil get there at the factory on initial build?:confused:
The fact I'm a tight bastard, with time and money, only want to do this once. Also that the orig oil is not available in Aust and only replacing 50% when the plug is pulled, then refilling with a different brand and grade, but approved, leaves me a little limp. But if I do this twice I will get 75% of the oil replaced which is not too bad, I suppose.
Another thing, my father said no to me as a kid so I will always look for another alternative around the said issue. Also my knowledge of auto boxes is minimal. Google is Great.:D

Cheers.

No need to explain - I have never paid a mechanic to do anything yet - we all live and learn.

My last experience with an auto tranny (GM T700) was when it was rebuilt and I filled it to the brim (12 litres) took it for a test drive, went OK, then reverse back into the garage up a slight ramp, felt a little slippage, stopped topped up with another 6 litres. I then went to drive it and had no drive - another rebuild was necessary.

The oil companies made a lot of noise in the 1980s about never mixing different brands of lubricants etc - most of that advice is simply marketing nonsense. Very similar to the more recent marketing nonsense that we continually get bombarded with - "drinking red wine being good for you".

Doing a second ATF change will not get you 75%. It much more like 60%.
Once again the aim of the filter & ATF change is to remove contaminants and any dumping of the old ATF will achieve that.

I researched the ATF specs a couple of years ago, purchased the Valvoline ATF and imported filter kits from USA but have still not got around to doing it.
My L322 is 2005 with 170k km. I do a lot of 3 tonne towing and use lo range just about every time I leave home as I have 15 km of mountainous tracks to traverse.

I don't know what problems others have with their L322 td6 transmissions but mine is still as new.

Factory installs of transmissions are done with pressure fill of ATF etc so there is never anything started "dry". Also transmissions are assembled with special lubricant on all relevant components. Local mechanics use vaseline (and lots of it) for that purpose.

[John L322]

Daniel,
Thankyou for your most candid reply which carries much more weight. The L322 I have recently purchased is a 2002 HSE TD6 with 245K on the clock and I intend to tow with it. Low range shifts on the fly is a god send. A must. I would just like to see the condition of the box for insurance so I will do the simpler option and drop the pan etc. At the moment all is OK with the box and vehicle in general.
Don't know if I agree with the red wine bit being marketing nonsense as I'm still doing the research on this.
I will post again when I drop the pan and have a look.

Seasons greetings to all.

[ahebron]

Daniel,
Thankyou for your most candid reply which carries much more weight. The L322 I have recently purchased is a 2002 HSE TD6 with 245K on the clock and I intend to tow with it. Low range shifts on the fly is a god send. A must. I would just like to see the condition of the box for insurance so I will do the simpler option and drop the pan etc. At the moment all is OK with the box and vehicle in general.
Don't know if I agree with the red wine bit being marketing nonsense as I'm still doing the research on this.
I will post again when I drop the pan and have a look.

Seasons greetings to all.

Hi John have you done the job yet?
What oil did you end up with?
Looking to do my recently purchased 2003 TD6 with 225000km on it soon.
Got to find out what is leaking oil up near the turbo as well. Not enough to hit the ground but enough to give everything round it a good coating. Cleaned it all off yesterday so I can hopefully track it down.

Adrian

[Homestar]

Hi John have you done the job yet?
What oil did you end up with?
Looking to do my recently purchased 2003 TD6 with 225000km on it soon.
Got to find out what is leaking oil up near the turbo as well. Not enough to hit the ground but enough to give everything round it a good coating. Cleaned it all off yesterday so I can hopefully track it down.

Adrian

High crankcase pressure from a blocked breather can cause oil leaks similar to what you are describing - you can get oil being pushed out from seals, etc. This can also lead to premature turbo failure as well. Hope you find the cause.:)

[PAT303]

I'll jump back on this thread,it is VERY important that the fluid is filled EXACTLY as the manufacturer states,the shop that did mine didn't and it had two litres less fluid than it was supposed to.I had it done again at Lifestyle LR at Morley and they sourced the fluid direct from BMW and filled it properly and my gearbox never ran smoother. Pat

[jsp]

I just got quoted $300 for a full fluid change and filter change on my td6 trans by a well known local land rover specialist, and they seem to think the atf in the td6 box is nothing too special? hmmmmmmmmm

[Daniel]

I just got quoted $300 for a full fluid change and filter change on my td6 trans by a well known local land rover specialist, and they seem to think the atf in the td6 box is nothing too special? hmmmmmmmmm

OEM filter - $75
proper spec ATF (say they only do a pan change of 10 litres) - $150
labour 1 hour - $75
total $300.

sounds feasible

[PAT303]

No go.The trans needs a flush,mine was done twice to get all the old fluid out.Do it once right and then a pan change every 12 months. Pat

[Daniel]

No go.The trans needs a flush,mine was done twice to get all the old fluid out.Do it once right and then a pan change every 12 months. Pat

Yes, of course, but the dealer does it the way I outlined for $300.
If a dealer was to do it properly then you'd have to pay $650.
I wouldn't trust any dealer to use the correct ATF anyway as your earlier experience proved Pat!

[PAT303]

I'm with you on the dealers,when you consider how much money one of these cost if it all goes wrong I would not save money on the tranny servicing. Pat

[ahebron]

Treading very carefully here.
I did a bit of research into the oil for the TD6 transmission today and came up with these.

ELF - PRESTIGE LL (http://elf.federationmedia.com/Products-and-Services/Products/TRANSMISSION-DIFF/Automatic-Transmission-Fluid/ELFMATIC-PRESTIGE-LL.aspx)

AMSOIL - Synthetic Multi-Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid (ATF) (http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atf.aspx)

Full Synthetic Multi Vehicle Automatic Transmission Fluid- Nulon Australia (http://www.nulon.com.au/products/Automatic_Transmission_Fluids/Full_Synthetic_Multi_Vehicle_Automatic_Transmissio n_Fluid/#.TzC69sUwcTY)

Now I have always thought of Nulon and Amsoil as bit like snake oil but I have reason why, maybe its the names.
All the above claim to be replacements for Texaco Texamatic ETL-7045E.
Texaco Texamatic ETL-7045E is not easily available here in NZ apart from the dealers if they stock it.

Thanks
Adrian

[Daniel]

Treading very carefully here.
I did a bit of research into the oil for the TD6 transmission today and came up with these.

All the above claim to be replacements for Texaco Texamatic ETL-7045E.
Texaco Texamatic ETL-7045E is not easily available here in NZ apart from the dealers if they stock it.

Thanks
Adrian

I'm always a little suspicious of "synthetic" = usually code for 'very expensive' with no added benefits.

What these atf manufacturers claim as replacements is irrelevant.
What you need is atf that is listed on GM's list of licensed products as suitable for this model tranny.

[PAT303]

Or just buy the correct fluid from BMW. Pat

[ahebron]

Bought some of the proper oil today from my local BMW dealer. I asked for 20 litres but they could only supply 12 which should be enough to do a flush and fill. They said BMW NZ can supply 20 litre drums but do not have any in stock and do not know when they will be getting some. They sold me the oil for $20 per litre. This will do for the next 12 months.
I priced the oil from Land Rover NZ and they had 8 litres in stock and wanted $85 per litre.

Adrian

[Daniel]

Bought some of the proper oil today from my local BMW dealer. I asked for 20 litres but they could only supply 12 which should be enough to do a flush and fill. They said BMW NZ can supply 20 litre drums but do not have any in stock and do not know when they will be getting some. They sold me the oil for $20 per litre. This will do for the next 12 months.
I priced the oil from Land Rover NZ and they had 8 litres in stock and wanted $85 per litre.

Adrian

One has to be very careful with BMW dealers - they have a habit of mixing up their ATF's.

My local BMW dealer insisted on selling me ATF of the wrong specs saying it didn't matter.

The only safe way to purchase the ATF is to go to the GM licensed ATF list and purchase one of the listed ATFs. At your shop get a whole drum of ATF with the correct GM license number stamped on the 20 litre (or 200 litre) drum.

Any thing else is asking for trouble - and you'll find the cost of getting proper spec ATF is less that from the BMW dealer.


By the way, who sells ATF in 12 litre lots? might be ATF dumped from another tranny?? You will need far more than 12 litres if you want to do any flushing anyway. Flushing is accomplished by multiple dumps and refills (usually about 3 or 4) - you'll need at least 20 litres to do 2 fills.

[ahebron]

They gave me 12 litres by pumping it out of there bulk supply drum into my supplied container. That was all they could supply me with. Surely if it was used oil then it would smell, look and feel used.

The last I read about flushing is to do it twice with a filter change both times.
But hey its all I have at present so will use it once and see how much I have left for a possible other one.

From all I have read on this site and many others it appears that the wisest choice is to use Texaco Texaco Texamatic ETL-7045E with this transmission and vehicle combination

I have done a bit of seaching on the internet but cannot find a 'GM approved ATF list' that mentions the GM 5L40-E box. Can anyone point me in the direction of a list. All I can find is one listing approved Dexron 6 manufacturers.

Adrian

[Daniel]

I have done a bit of searching on the internet but cannot find a 'GM approved ATF list' that mentions the GM 5L40-E box. Can anyone point me in the direction of a list. All I can find is one listing approved Dexron 6 manufacturers.

Adrian

I'm pretty sure that I've posted these specs previously - it took me days of searching to get this, including contacting the GM tranny factory in France where the GM td6 tranny is built - here it is attached again.
As you can see some ATFs missing are some that are touted as suitable but are not licensed and should not be used.

Your dealer supplied ATF is probably not used but then did you see the drum sealed from the manufacturer. Dealers have a habit of tipping in odd fluids into a drum that they use and keep because it's convenient despite what the drum label may state. I would never get any fluid from a container that was opened by someone else and not factory sealed.

[ahebron]

Thanks for that Daniel.
Can I propose that this list becomes a Sticky as it is very relevant to L322 TD6 owners.

Adrian

[Daniel]

Thanks for that Daniel.
Can I propose that this list becomes a Sticky as it is very relevant to L322 TD6 owners.

Adrian

Sorry, don't know what "sticky" means - do I need to do something?

[Hoges]

Sorry, don't know what "sticky" means - do I need to do something?

a metaphorical reference I presume to 'post it' notes and applied to forums (fora) whereby matters of importance which are constantly referenced are in their own thread and "stuck" in a special section at the top of a particular thread collection .. e.g. Range Rover P38, General Chat etc...
Have a look at the General Chat section for examples.

I've not set one up...presume you add a plea to the Moderator in your post and ask them to make it a " sticky"

[rick130]

a metaphorical reference I presume to 'post it' notes and applied to forums (fora) whereby matters of importance which are constantly referenced are in their own thread and "stuck" in a special section at the top of a particular thread collection .. e.g. Range Rover P38, General Chat etc...
Have a look at the General Chat section for examples.

I've not set one up...presume you add a plea to the Moderator in your post and ask them to make it a " sticky"

Or just get it put in 'The Good Oil' where all other posts of relevance are ;)

[RR04]

just had my transmission oil and filter replaced by local Fluid Drive shop.
Total cost $220.oo

[Camo]

just had my transmission oil and filter replaced by local Fluid Drive shop.
Total cost $220.oo

What fluid did they use? Maxlife?

[rick130]

Current GM Dex VI licensed fluids list

DEXRON®-VI (http://www.gmpowertrain.com/VehicleEngines/DEXRON-VI.aspx)



"The original formulator is the company who formulated the product and submitted the formulation and data for approval. They own and control the approved formula.

A reblender is a company who, with permission from the original formulator, blends the exact formulation at their site. The reblender may be a division of the original formulator but blends at a different blending site.

A rebrander buys the finished blended formulation from an approved original formulator or an approved reblender and simply puts their brand name on the product. A rebrander may also package the product if they have a packaging line."

from this thread http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2567527&gonew=1#UNREAD

[Daniel]

just had my transmission oil and filter replaced by local Fluid Drive shop.
Total cost $220.oo

$220!? - is it that either the filter or ATF or both are chinese products or they forgot to charge for the labour or they only drained and replaced a couple litres of ATF?

[PAT303]

^what he said. Pat

[jsp]

My local landrover place who know these quite well and are not the cheapest quoted me between $275 and $300 to do filter and fluid.

[Daniel]

My local landrover place who know these quite well and are not the cheapest quoted me between $275 and $300 to do filter and fluid.

It pays to check what they are actually quoting on - if they know these quite well then why isn't the quote a single price?

$300 is fine - just remember that a genuine filter costs about $100 and 20 litres of the correct spec ATF costs about $300 - then there's retail markup and labour on top.

A sump drop will use up about 7 litres whereas a proper fluid change will use about 20 litres. Labour of ½ hour minimum adds another $50.

It's simple maths to see what they are doing (or not doing) to your truck.

[fraser130]

I just got off the phone from a place in Tullamarine that bacicat2000 (Gav) recommended (Chris at Airport automatics), he knows these transmissions really well, and he has quoted me $360 filter replaced with RR specific one, and a complete flush and fill (total change) with Dexron VI fluid which is licensed (Fuchs Petrolub AG (license number J-60310) TITAN ATF 6000 SL - this seems to be a top fully synthetic fluid).


Cheers,
Fraser

[Daniel]

I just got off the phone from a place in Tullamarine that bacicat2000 (Gav) recommended (Chris at Airport automatics), he knows these transmissions really well, and he has quoted me $360 filter replaced with RR specific one, and a complete flush and fill (total change) with Dexron VI fluid from which is licensed (Fuchs Petrolub AG (license number J-60310) TITAN ATF 6000 SL - this seems to be a top fully synthetic fluid).

Cheers,
Fraser

Now that mob appear to know what they are doing!
Pity they aren't in the Hunter!

[Camo]

When I had mine done 6 months ago the shop used Valvoline Maxlife and an X5 filter.. The guy assured me it was the right fluid.

Looks like I will have to find someone to do it right up here.

Camo

[fraser130]

When I had mine done 6 months ago the shop used Valvoline Maxlife and an X5 filter.. The guy assured me it was the right fluid.

Looks like I will have to find someone to do it right up here.

Camo

I think the filter for the RR has an extra bolt or something similar to hold it better for all the rough-roading that these vehicles do!
As for the fluid, i would not take any chances at all, as they are a known weak-point due to the fact that most of these tranny's weren't serviced until 2007 (I think) The Dexron-VI spec sheet above specifically mentions "Hydra-matic" transmissions, which is what I believe these are called in Europe.
Anyway, I'll let you know how it goes after the change.........

Cheers,
Fraser

[Camo]

Gave my local Auto service shop a call regarding my trans.

The guy said the filter is identical for the RR and X5.. He said the sedans are different. Will give him that I guess.

He was dead set sure the Maxlife is fine for the RR ZF box. They rebuild them and use that fluid. He said the box is identical to aussie GM.

Got me beat. Would love to show him info why we need Dextron VI. Why is that anyways? Valve body different?

Camo

[fraser130]

Gave my local Auto service shop a call regarding my trans.

The guy said the filter is identical for the RR and X5.. He said the sedans are different. Will give him that I guess.

He was dead set sure the Maxlife is fine for the RR ZF box. They rebuild them and use that fluid. He said the box is identical to aussie GM.

Got me beat. Would love to show him info why we need Dextron VI. Why is that anyways? Valve body different?

Camo

Camo, the Td6 RR's have a GM box, NOT a ZF box. The ZF's were in the petrol models. In Europe the GM box is called a "Hydra-matic", which is referred to in This (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/l322-range-rover/43448d1328870599-l322-td6-gm-transmission-oil-filter-dexron_vi_service_fill_release_30no07.pdf) document (from the previous page of this thread).
I'm just a little paranoid about the transmission, and for $360 I wasn't going to take any chances, I wanted a fluid that was licensed.
Here is the relevant bit:

"All DEXRON®-III licenses expire at the end of 2006 and will not be renewed. Beyond that date
GM will only support the use of DEXRON®-VI fluids for use in Hydra-Matic transmissions. Fluids
sold in the market after that date bearing claims such as “suitable for use in DEXRON®-III
applications” or similar wording should be avoided. DEXRON®-VI licensed fluids are fully
backward compatible and can be used in all applications covered by earlier GM ATF
specifications."

There is SOOO much confusion over this, I thought I'd post my thoughts!
The car is getting done as we speak - I'll report back on how it goes (if any different or not) when I get it back.
I'm doing 100k's tonight so it will give it a bit of a run.

Cheers,

Fraser

[Camo]

ahh I meant GM not ZF sorry

[Daniel]

Gave my local Auto service shop a call regarding my trans.

The guy said the filter is identical for the RR and X5.. He said the sedans are different. Will give him that I guess.

He was dead set sure the Maxlife is fine for the RR ZF box. They rebuild them and use that fluid. He said the box is identical to aussie GM.

Got me beat. Would love to show him info why we need Dextron VI. Why is that anyways? Valve body different?

Camo

Just goes to show that he does not know what he is talking about.
L322 td6 runs a GM tranny whereas the petrol v8 runs a ZF tranny.
Both trannies need different spec ATF.
Do a google search on what happens to the L322 GM transmission when the incorrect ATF used. There is plenty of experience in GB where these trucks have now done 300k km and what happens when you run them on the incorrect spec ATF. You are better off leaving it as is with the factory sealed ATF than replacing it with the wrong spec ATF.

[fraser130]

...Just a quick follow-up, I did about 300k's on the weekend and all is good, It has always been a really smooth and snappy transmission, and it still is.
It's just nice to know that the fluid in it now is all new, and it has a new filter.
The old fluid was a little brown, and had a small amount of particles, but nothing abnormal as far as Chris said....all good news!

[Homestar]

...Just a quick follow-up, I did about 300k's on the weekend and all is good, It has always been a really smooth and snappy transmission, and it still is.
It's just nice to know that the fluid in it now is all new, and it has a new filter.
The old fluid was a little brown, and had a small amount of particles, but nothing abnormal as far as Chris said....all good news!

Great news Fraser - how did you find Chris and his service? I was impressed by him, but I'd like a second opinion. Did he say anything about another Rangie in his workshop - I don't think he gets them in there often, but he sure liked mine when he drove it:) - did he take your for a test drive?

[jsp]

I am even more concerned about my car now.

I got under it and had a good poke about, and found a "remanafactured" sticker on the top of my transmission.

Checking the paperwork, the transmission was stated as "fitted new replacement transmission" on the job sheet by a reputable landrover dealer. I took this as a brand spanking new unit when I was doing my research on purchasing the car.

Its got just on 40k on it now so its got another two oil changes before I put it in for a filter and fluid change.

[Daniel]

I am even more concerned about my car now.

I got under it and had a good poke about, and found a "remanafactured" sticker on the top of my transmission.



I think that this is just part of the 'green agenda' adopted by all EU manufacturers these days.

It's similar to the EAS air compressor which has to be exchanged when you purchase a new one from your LR dealer. The old one is returned and "re-manufactured".

If a LR dealer did the work then the "re-manufactured" unit will be as new.

If you've done 40k on the transmission and it is behaving properly then all should be OK anyway.

[Laurie]

This is taken from a US GM Auto rebuilder, the US rebuilders have a there own oil preferences and service advice.

"BMW X5 and Land Rover Discovery’s with the 5L40E transmission are known for failing due to over working the transmission. As they are classed as a sealed Transmission the oil often goes off like milk left in the sun and causes the internals to fail. Transmission Rebuilders recommend servicing these transmissions every 20,000kms or 12 Months which every accrues first."
Recommended Oil is Dexron 111 however there are better oils available now.

Valvoline Dexron 6
Valvoline Maxlife (Synthetic)
Castrol Transmax (Full Synthetic)

[Daniel]

This is taken from a US GM Auto rebuilder, the US rebuilders have a there own oil preferences and service advice.

"BMW X5 and Land Rover Discovery’s with the 5L40E transmission are known for failing due to over working the transmission. As they are classed as a sealed Transmission the oil often goes off like milk left in the sun and causes the internals to fail. Transmission Rebuilders recommend servicing these transmissions every 20,000kms or 12 Months which every accrues first."
Recommended Oil is Dexron 111 however there are better oils available now.

Valvoline Dexron 6
Valvoline Maxlife (Synthetic)
Castrol Transmax (Full Synthetic)

Neither Castrol nor GM recommend using "Transmax" - in fact Castrol strongly warns that you do not use any of their products for this transmission.

"US ... rebuilder... recommend ...20,000 kms...." - in US they do not use kms for measuring distance so this reference is a bit sus.

Also if they recommend "Dexron III" they definitely do not know what they are talking about. I don't know about milk going off in the sun as that is a bacterial reaction but Dexron III does not have the correct chemical properties for the metallurgy in this transmission.

[Homestar]

This is taken from a US GM Auto rebuilder, the US rebuilders have a there own oil preferences and service advice.

"BMW X5 and Land Rover Discovery’s with the 5L40E transmission are known for failing due to over working the transmission. As they are classed as a sealed Transmission the oil often goes off like milk left in the sun and causes the internals to fail. Transmission Rebuilders recommend servicing these transmissions every 20,000kms or 12 Months which every accrues first."
Recommended Oil is Dexron 111 however there are better oils available now.

Valvoline Dexron 6
Valvoline Maxlife (Synthetic)
Castrol Transmax (Full Synthetic)

Definatly agree with Daniel on this one - if they are recommending Dextron III, I wouldn't listed to another thing they would have to say about these transmissions...

[Laurie]

Daniel - Gav no offence taken I was just posting parts of the data sheet for Oz below ,this is from a local rebuilder.

Furitech Automotive (http://www.furitech.com.au/index.php/category/general-motors/5l40e/)

I have found so much dis-information regarding this auto, searching local Euro and US rebuilers for H/D auto. BMW only approve new boxes not rebuilds etc.

The 5L40E is the achilles heel of the Td6 L322

If we can find a H/D solution for the L322 we will be really able to get the best performance from the Td6 and the car as a whole.

[Homestar]

Yeah, everyone has something to say about these boxes, and a lot of it is garbage. If someone does come up with a reliable and HD solution, there will be a lot of people standing in the queue. It would be great to unleash a bit more power from the engne, but I'm just too scared to try...

I'm still serious about putting a manual box in mine. I think I have most of the angles covered, but there is still some info that no one can help with - I guess eventually I'll just do it, and sort out the gaps as I go...:p

I think within a few years, there will be some people try something different, as these cars become cheaper and the older and high km ones are picked up cheap, someone will have a crack at something different, as rebuilding or replacing these boxes long term just won't be viable.

Cheers - Gav

[Camo]

Why arnt aussie GM boxes having troubles in commodores? Is it because they can't handle the torque of the diesel?

[Homestar]

Why arnt aussie GM boxes having troubles in commodores? Is it because they can't handle the torque of the diesel?

Simple - they DO have problems in the Dunny Door - you only have to ask a transmission specialist to have them tell you they are all a piece of ****. Not sure what's in the POS Commodore I have, but that is playing up after 65KKM, as are many others in our fleet...

[Daniel]

The 5L40E is the achilles heel of the Td6 L322



How is the 5L40E the "Achilles heel"?

I have now done 180k in mine - I regularly use it to tow 3 tonne loads which always include a 10 km section of steep mountainous climb from seal level to 800m ASL. Every time I drive I drive at least 10 km of rough mountainous track and then do 160 kph for sections as well. I use manual selection for all braking or slowing down for curves. I have owned the truck since new and have not changed the ATF or filter. I bought those to do a couple of years ago but have not got around to it yet - maybe I'll do them at 200k.

[Daniel]

This is taken from a US GM Auto rebuilder, the US rebuilders have a there own oil preferences and service advice.

"BMW X5 and Land Rover Discovery’s with the 5L40E transmission are known for failing due to over working the transmission. As they are classed as a sealed Transmission the oil often goes off like milk left in the sun and causes the internals to fail. Transmission Rebuilders recommend servicing these transmissions every 20,000kms or 12 Months which every accrues first."
Recommended Oil is Dexron 111 however there are better oils available now.

Valvoline Dexron 6
Valvoline Maxlife (Synthetic)
Castrol Transmax (Full Synthetic)

This quote is from an Australian website 'Furitech Automotive' and not a "US GM auto rebuilder". It just confirms that you should not believe all that you find on the web. Like everything in life - caveat emptor

[Homestar]

How is the 5L40E the "Achilles heel"?

I have now done 180k in mine - I regularly use it to tow 3 tonne loads which always include a 10 km section of steep mountainous climb from seal level to 800m ASL. Every time I drive I drive at least 10 km of rough mountainous track and then do 160 kph for sections as well. I use manual selection for all braking or slowing down for curves. I have owned the truck since new and have not changed the ATF or filter. I bought those to do a couple of years ago but have not got around to it yet - maybe I'll do them at 200k.

I think you have been lucky - every forum in the world that deals with the L322 has numerous threads on failed transmissions. I wish everyone the best who has had no dramas with theres, but all the research I did before I bought one showed this to be one of the major weak points in the car, and after I bought one, I found out first hand how weak they are. They are under speced for this vehicle in terms of HP and torque they can manage, they have notorious weak components - coupled with that LR's advise that they were 'sealed for life' so no one did anything to theirs. There are heaps failing at about 160KKM (100K Miles) and there are plenty out there reaching this milestone. There is so much to love about these cars, but the trannie aint one of them...

Cheers - Gav

[Daniel]

Yeah, everyone has something to say about these boxes, and a lot of it is garbage. If someone does come up with a reliable and HD solution, there will be a lot of people standing in the queue. It would be great to unleash a bit more power from the engne, but I'm just too scared to try...

I'm still serious about putting a manual box in mine. I think I have most of the angles covered, but there is still some info that no one can help with - I guess eventually I'll just do it, and sort out the gaps as I go...:p

I think within a few years, there will be some people try something different, as these cars become cheaper and the older and high km ones are picked up cheap, someone will have a crack at something different, as rebuilding or replacing these boxes long term just won't be viable.

Cheers - Gav

I'm not convinced that the issue with the 5L40E 'failures' that some experience has to do with under rating for power/torque. From my research it is more to do with incorrect lubrication of the the valve bodies. Valve bodies are usually the weak link in most auto transmissions. I suspect that many L322 5L40E failures are probably due to good intentions, replacing the 'factory sealed' ATF with some you beaut synthetic ATF that is not to the correct GM specs. The guys in GB where these 5L40E issues first surfaced have confirmed that the problem is with incorrect lubrication causing fast tracked wear in the valve bodies. That is why the correct ATF is so critical and that is why it is better to leave the factory ATF in there rather than replacing it with new yet incorrect spec ATF.
In my other RR ('89 Classic) I run a 6.5 turbo GMC motor that puts out more torque/power than the BMW td6. I run a GM T700 transmission. The standard mod for that unit is to make modifications to the valve body and failures once again always occur in the valve body - nothing to do with torque/power ratings as such.
To put a manual transmission in the L322 would be shame and probably spoil the whole vehicle. You might as well just buy some cheap Jap crap as they still come with dark age technology such as manual transmissions.
Carrying out a reco on the 5L40E every 200k kms (if that's indeed what it takes) makes far more sense than playing around with a manual.

[Homestar]

Sorry Dan, but we'll have to agree to disagree. While I would imagine that incorrect fluid would have caused some failures, a lot of them have failed while they still have the original fluid in them - I have read 100's of posts about this both before and after my own trannie **** itself, and it is not just the valve bodies that are a potential weak point in these. The torque converter is also a major culprit, as well as the pump. To a lesser extent the frictions are also highly stressed behind this engine - and are one of the components that are maxed out in this application. I have done A LOT of research on these boxes - they are not able to be fully bullet proofed when rebuilt, but there are a few good mods that are possible - I have an uprated torque converter in mine now, as well as better valves in the valve body that will seal better in worn bores. I also have larger frictions on some of the gears. I still don't trust it as far as I can throw it though... It will take me a loooong time to trust this box again.

Just on your TH700 box - that box has HEAPS bigger frictions in it than the 5L40E, so you aint going to break that through overpowering it. If I could fit one of those in behind the TD6, it would be a much better option that that piece of plastercine that is there now. You said everything with the last line of your post - "Carrying out a reco on the 5L40E every 200k kms (if that's indeed what it takes) makes far more sense than playing around with a manual." A gearbox - auto or manual should be able to survive longer than 200KKM between rebuilds on a standard vehicle. The very fact so many of these fail - for whatever reason tells the story. It just wasn't the best decision LR made when developing this car.

Do you work for GM or something - I haven't come across such a staunch supported of their gearboxes before.:D

As for the manual conversion - each to their own - I much prefer to drive a manual over an auto any day of the week - and I drive a lot of KM both in the city and the country, and I would have my manual Transit van back in a flash over the sludge box dunny door I have to drive now for work.

I don't think a manual would ruin it - Range Rovers have been available with manual gearboxes before - I have one in the driveway:p.

Cheers - Gav

[33chinacars]

From what I have learnt most failures in the 5L40E is in the valve bodies due to the bores not been hard enough ( soft metal) therefore premature wear. The 5L40E is also only rated to 350 Nm where as the TD6 produces 390Nm in standard form.

Gary

[salty1960]

Haven't had a chance to keep up with this thread, but am keen to see it progressed - Thank you to all the contributors. But,

I remain in the "must change fluid camp".

THE500031 - SCREEN FILTER AND GASKET GM 5 SP AUTO BOX L322 M57 3.0L DIESEL - LR Spare Parts - All Land Rover and Range Rover makes (http://www.lrspareparts.com/eshop/screen-filter-and-gasket-gm-5-sp-auto-box-l322-m57-3-0l-diesel.html)

Can we get these locally?

I will be changing mine and putting in the closest spec fluid.
Isn't the same box (valve body, seals, etc) in one commodore model!

Why doesn't it suffer valve body wear?
If the problem really is valve body wear (as opposed to the other causes of similar symptoms - like failed filter, hardened seals, etc) why doesn't the sleeve repair succeed?

I will be dropping the pan off my box soon and might check the valve body for the mysterious wear? I think I will find hardened seals. Anyone keen to attend?

Stephen - Western Sydney

[Laurie]

Stephen

Try Karcraft there in Sydney.Very tech savvy staff and very good prices.

Contact Karcraft Australia (http://www.karcraft.com.au/contact.php)

If you read thru this post you will see the oils to use.

[Daniel]

Sorry Dan, but we'll have to agree to disagree.

Do you work for GM or something - I haven't come across such a staunch supported of their gearboxes before.:D

As for the manual conversion - each to their own - I much prefer to drive a manual over an auto any day of the week - and I drive a lot of KM both in the city and the country, and I would have my manual Transit van back in a flash over the sludge box dunny door I have to drive now for work.

I don't think a manual would ruin it - Range Rovers have been available with manual gearboxes before - I have one in the driveway:p.

Cheers - Gav

Thanks Gav.

No I don't work for GM and I didn't think I was supporting their "gearboxes".

Yes, I agree to disagree.

1. Not every td6 has transmission problems as my case proves.
2. Transmission maintenance every 200k kms + auto v manual.

The average manual requires a clutch reco every 150k-200k kms.
The automotive world is littered with various transmission failures. Mitsubishi and most other Japs got all their first runs of 5 speed maunals wrong and spent millions doing factory funded rebuilds that never fixed the issue anyway. Toyota did a recall on their 80s LCs to replace wrongly specced clutch plates.

If what you are saying is correct then BMW may have stuffed up in their choice of transmission for the td6. I haven't heard about X5s running the same engine/transmission having problems?

In the dark ages all heavy duty off road equipment had manual transmissions as well. eg Caterpillar ditched manuals in about 1970. Car makers are still persisting. I drive 100k km pa including off road every day, highway every day and often city grid lock as well. There is no way that I'd ever return to a manual if I had the choice. I still have to drive a manual td5 D2 but that is only because I have to - not by choice.

[33chinacars]

The automotive world is littered with various transmission failures. Mitsubishi and most other Japs got all their first runs of 5 speed maunals wrong and spent millions doing factory funded rebuilds that never fixed the issue anyway. Toyota did a recall on their 80s LCs to replace wrongly specced clutch plates.


You think that is bad. Have a look at a Lada 5 speed. Piece of s**t. 5 Gear runs on only 1/2 of actual gear. Rebuilt 4 times ?? Still love my Lada.

Gary

[blazing928]

Thanks Gav.

I haven't heard about X5s running the same engine/transmission having problems?

.


Well they do, mates diesel 3.0 a 2005 model , full trans rebuild at 130,000km. Evenly quite common according to the repairer.
We have a 02 X5 4.4 ,[owned from new] had the fluid flushed at 100,000 km, garage was surprised at how little metal came out of it, expected worse!

Peronally I think the X5 is poorly built, lots of small bits break, Cv boots at 50,00km, water pump, coolant leaks, oil leaks, door locks, Tv screen pixels, informer pixels, pwr steering hoses leak, poor wear on inside of rear tyres, crap ride, jerky controls, poor seats, small boot, transmission problems, Am radio dead, A/C freezes up and lots more..., so don't be too tharsh on the Rangie! & yes I have convinced my wife to change her car & to look at a TDV8 4.4, just trying to find one that isn't black or white....

[Daniel]

had the fluid flushed at 100,000 km, garage was surprised at how little metal came out of it, expected worse!

Peronally I think the X5 is poorly built, lots of small bits break, Cv boots at 50,00km, water pump, coolant leaks, oil leaks, door locks, Tv screen pixels, informer pixels, pwr steering hoses leak, poor wear on inside of rear tyres, crap ride, jerky controls, poor seats, small boot, transmission problems, Am radio dead, A/C freezes up and lots more..., so don't be too tharsh on the Rangie! & yes I have convinced my wife to change her car & to look at a TDV8 4.4, just trying to find one that isn't black or white....


Yep - I think that it goes without stating it that the X5 is crap - after all it is made is USA - is there any USA motor car that is not crap? We're looking out for a tdV8 RR as well. I have a friend that is about to trade in her city car - unfortunately it is black and it is a RR sports. Maybe black could be OK but not a Sport!

[Defender Mike]

Hi All,
Ok I pick my new L322 td6 up on Tuesday . The dealer Mossmsn Toyota is servicing it first but they don't do the auto. Graeme Cooper has been servicing the vehicle since it came out of warranty. Who is the best Landrover Auto people around in Sydney that know these boxes. I want a flush filter and the correct oil with the correct spec. It's done 114,000 ks and running great at the moment. I'm not from Sydney so don't want to get caught. :)
Mike

[deRanged Rover]

Wow td6 with 114k?? where has it been parked?

late 2005 L322 td6 - - last week I carried out its first auto service since new at 245k km. Owned the truck since new and have done a lot of heavy towing.

Fluid was clean and filter had a little dark material inside and around magnet.
Cleaned sump & magnet, replaced filter & fluid with correct spec Valvoline product (non synthetic).

I don't expect to repeat for another 200k or so kms.

Like everything on internet - don't believe everything you read.

[rar110]

Wow td6 with 114k?? where has it been parked? late 2005 L322 td6 - - last week I carried out its first auto service since new at 245k km. Owned the truck since new and have done a lot of heavy towing. Fluid was clean and filter had a little dark material inside and around magnet. Cleaned sump & magnet, replaced filter & fluid with correct spec Valvoline product (non synthetic). I don't expect to repeat for another 200k or so kms. Like everything on internet - don't believe everything you read.

That's good to hear.

[disco gazza]

Hi Defender Mike,
Rhys at Furious Performance,Brookvale is your man if you want someone that knows these boxes backwards.
His number is 99074486.

cheers

[Defender Mike]

Yes genuine 114.000ks and in White so easy to polish out scratches from branches. I swooped on it was only tradedin the day before. Owned by elderly couple. Apart from the dog hair which is getting removed in the detail its in very good condition.:)
I will give the auto guy a call hope to pick it up tomorrow but may be Friday .

[BobD]

Defender Mike,


Looks like you are driving back to Perth after purchasing in Sydney. I asked the same question of DDJJKK but he has not replied to my post, but be careful of the registration since you are not from NSW.


The car is not registered when you take delivery, unless it is properly transferred, which I think can only happen in WA. I bought a second hand D4 at Trivet in Parramatta and drove back to Perth, thinking it would be registered in NSW until I got the rego transferred, just like if you buy a car in WA. However, that is not the case and I was told when I went to get it licensed at Welshpool after I got back that I was driving an unregistered car, even though it still had the NSW plates. It also has to go across the pits for an inspection before they will register it.


You have to get a permit from WA, which only allows you to drive the car to the registration centre and only through Victoria and SA on the way, not NSW. It also only applies for 24 hours. If you are not aware of this, find out before you go or make sure that the dealer properly transfers the rego before you leave, otherwise, you will drive an unregistered car across Australia like I did.

[Defender Mike]

Defender Mike,


Looks like you are driving back to Perth after purchasing in Sydney. I asked the same question of DDJJKK but he has not replied to my post, but be careful of the registration since you are not from NSW.


The car is not registered when you take delivery, unless it is properly transferred, which I think can only happen in WA. I bought a second hand D4 at Trivet in Parramatta and drove back to Perth, thinking it would be registered in NSW until I got the rego transferred, just like if you buy a car in WA. However, that is not the case and I was told when I went to get it licensed at Welshpool after I got back that I was driving an unregistered car, even though it still had the NSW plates. It also has to go across the pits for an inspection before they will register it.


You have to get a permit from WA, which only allows you to drive the car to the registration centre and only through Victoria and SA on the way, not NSW. It also only applies for 24 hours. If you are not aware of this, find out before you go or make sure that the dealer properly transfers the rego before you leave, otherwise, you will drive an unregistered car across Australia like I did.
Hi Bob
We have moved to Sydney for a while to be closer to our new grandson. We got a nice place up at Pittwater overlooking the water. They were filming home & away close by today (never watched it). I drove the 1958 series 1 from Qld to Perth and left it registered in Qld till I drove it back. Never had any dramas drove it around for 18 months on a qld plates. The biggest drama I had in WA was registering my 8 m long single axel glider trailer that came fom SA. 4 trips over the pits engineers reports the whole shebang.
Mike:)

[BobD]

You are OK if you have an address in NSW. If not, you can't transfer the rego in NSW, which is where the problem arises.


Good luck with the new car. Sounds great.

[Defender Mike]

Hi Defender Mike,
Rhys at Furious Performance,Brookvale is your man if you want someone that knows these boxes backwards.
His number is 99074486.

cheers
Thanks Gazza
Spoke with Rhys yes he knows his stuff was working on one when I called. Booked in for a service and check . He was saying they use the carbon plates out of the supercharged commode and there is a new upgraded torque converter. Best of all he's only 40 mins away and I can wait while he does it.:)
Mike

[disco gazza]

Thats good DM.

Say hi to Rhys for me.If he doesnt remember me tell him its gazza out at Castlereagh.
My box is good after he done it.

cheers

[rangietragic]

Have been reading about these boxes on here since i bought mine about 5 years ogo.Scaring the hell out of me.My 03 now has 244 thou on the clock and i can find no evidence that it has ever been touched.Should i flog it off now or wait for the box to go,in which case it would be sold as is.I don't have a lazy 7 grand lying around.:confused:

[disco gazza]

Thats a tough call rangietragic.....to sell now or wait till the box gets bad.
If it was me I'd sell now while the box is still ok.If you wait your going to loose $5-10 grand off the price if the box starts playing up.

cheers