Hawkeye

[fourteen8]

Anyone has or used hawkeye before? checked on Rovacraft website and they have it for $550 inc.

Do you think it is as good as nanocom (dont have nanocom either but heard alot about it)? The good thing about hawkeye to me is that it can be used with other model in case I upgrade the car to later model.

[mirror11726]

On this same topic, I'm sick of the need to reset codes when I'm in the middle of nowhere. Just had a 700km limp home, not much fun. So I'm committed to getting a Nanocom or Hawkeye. There seems to be little info on the Nanocom Extreme.

I've had a quick look around here, but I can't find many comments comparing Nanocom and Hawkeye. Has anyone out there used both and what are your thoughts?

My vehicle is a D2, 2000, TD5, Original engine mapping.

Thanks,

Pete.

[Koukandowie Brangus]

On this same topic, I'm sick of the need to reset codes when I'm in the middle of nowhere. Just had a 700km limp home, not much fun. So I'm committed to getting a Nanocom or Hawkeye. There seems to be little info on the Nanocom Extreme.

I've had a quick look around here, but I can't find many comments comparing Nanocom and Hawkeye. Has anyone out there used both and what are your thoughts?

My vehicle is a D2, 2000, TD5, Original engine mapping.

Thanks,

Pete.

A bird in the hand... go with what has been tried and tested, buy a nanocom whilst/if you still can.

[ADMIRAL]

Google Hawkeye, & Faultmate. I am currently looking at options for myself.

There is a lot of comment and reviews on both, particularly on the UK forums. It probably comes down to how much you want out of the unit, and more importantly how much you are prepared to pay for the functionality. The Hawkeye comes up as pretty basic in the reviews. The Faultmate as covering more, up to a hell of a lot if you go up to the Extreme. The disadvantage ( depending on your situation ) is that the Faultmate is VIN specific. One vehicle, but you can open it up for more by buying additional licences. the Hawkeye is model specific, and can be opened up to additional models. ( for a fee ) The Hawkeye also seems to require adaptors and or upgrades for some functionality. What these are is not always clear from the reviews posted.

Perhaps some feedback from users of either to help us "prospective purchaser's " ? What about Nanocom ?

[LOVEMYRANGIE]

You can read the users manual here
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/local_links.php?catid=7&filter=&sort=N&page=1&pp=10&keyid=156

Cheers

Andrew

[BBS Guy]

Hello,

Before you actually purchase a Hawkeye, you may like to read this quite long thread from Range Rovers.net

RangeRovers.net • View topic - HawkEye Diagnostic Tool Review (http://rangerovers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35344&sid=b83f0f61e15eafdb9c6a045c4d044478)

[wanglemoose]

I have a hawkeye unit, I bought it for my d2 and it is very simple to use and covers all the systems in the d2. I have since got it unlocked for the p38rr as i own one of them now and it does do most systems but for the air bag and the air suspension it needs extra dongles, it also wont talk to the HEVAC unit or the security system in the p38, these should be in the next upgrade.
Personally I think it is a great tool but it seems they put more into the development for particular models. The real bonus with the hawkeye is it doesn't lock to vin numbers so if you get a different vehicle you can still use it. Like any diag equipment you have to look at all of whats out there and find what best suits you.
hope this helps.
cheers
mick

[harlie]

Hello,

Before you actually purchase a Hawkeye, you may like to read this quite long thread from Range Rovers.net

RangeRovers.net • View topic - HawkEye Diagnostic Tool Review (http://rangerovers.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=35344&sid=b83f0f61e15eafdb9c6a045c4d044478)

How much is your product to enable me all functions on my td6 L322? I also find it hard to get over the single VIN licence issue - it's not that I'm expecting to service everyone else's but after spending $ on a nanocom for my last vehicle, it irritates me that I now have to spend that $ again because I've updated my car, so your product is throw away when I upgrade again let along if i'm like many here and own multiple LRs. For our other car I have a VAG COM, I've paid for the software (no extra box required) and it will operate with all post 2004 VAG vehicles with at most a different cable required for the latest Audis, so when we upgrade I don't have to bleed again. To me, after all I've read, the P38 as mentioned in this link is about the only significant area that BBS significantly over shadows Hawkeye.

As for the D2 TD5, I found the 2nd gen Nanocom to be great. Well supported, updates were regular. About the only issue is that it can't see the Auto Trans - and if you upgrade your car...

[Michael2]

With the increasing probability that I'll have a D2A soon, I've been doing some research on electronic prognosticators.

The Nanocom is between models at the moment, and there's uncertainty about how long it will continue for.

The Hawkeye will do everything on a D2, which is great for what I want, though I understand the issues people with P38s have. The other plus for the Hawkeye is that its supposed to use Land Rover code, and not be a reverse engineered unit. That means that its propensity for glitches has to be much reduced. The other option is that it can be unlocked for future models, though when I asked about the price of a fully unlocked Hawkeye at Rovacraft this week, it would be cheaper to buy 5 individual units!!!!

Other systems seem to be beyond my budget.

Looking on US forums, many owners there get a basic OBDII reader and then a smaller plug-in suited to the specifics of their vehicle. Given the price of other OBDII scanners, it seems like we're being forced to pay a premium for owning a Land Rover, but at $550 it's still a worthwhile addition for anyone who does their own maintenance. I also like that with the Hawkeye I can share the unit with other D2 owners.

[BBS Guy]

In direct answer to harlies specific price question, it's about 1400 AUD for an Extreme based kit for the L322, slightly more if its a post 05 with a touch screen, slightly less otherwise. You could shave 100 AUD off that if you elected for The Nano based kit rather than the Extreme, but then you loose the additional stand alone capability, which i think is well worth that bit extra.

Regards VAGCOM, many do not understand why there is such a cheap solution for VAG vehicles and not likewise for other manufacturers, the answer is actually the same as to why there are also so many cheap generic OBDII scan tools availaible.

It's a bit complex, but i will try my best to share what i know and understand as easily and clearly as i can, so that others might understand how come we are now in this strange situation and hopefully join many of the dots up.


When the OBD / OBDII vehicle communication standards were origionally drawn up, it was actually done as a vehicle system wide standard. However only a small part, namely the emmision related stuff from an EMS or Autobox actually got legislated. From that point on any Tom Dick or Harry could read the published standard and so readily know how to access the OBDII info vehicle manufactureres were forced to provide, hence all the cheap generic OBDII stuff around.

VAG however, quite uniquely decided to adopt the drawn up OBD / OBDII communication standard on all their vehicle systems. And so without any of the significant development costs, it is possible for stuff like VAGCOM to be cheaply created.

However, as stated, this was unique, because every other manufacturer, including Land Rover, took the fact that they had not been legislated vehicle wide, as a prompt to protect access to it, and make all other system and data as secure, protected and proprietary as they possibly could. With each generation this protection has got better and nowadays rolling code based anti access algorithms are the norm for anything other than the legislated OBD data it must provide.

However, everyone wishfully seems to think and assume, that because you can buy a cheap OBDII scan tool and get a VAGCOM, all systems covered Kit cheaply, they should be able to for Land Rover and the fact they can't and what kit there is is much more expensive is often incorrectly assumed as profiteering for whatever reason.

Well guess what, no Land Rover owner has any legal or other right to have any equipment to access their vehicle outside OBD at all and if Land Rover had done a better job with the security as other manufacturers did, or there were not folks out there like me to figure the security and how to decode the data and provide equipment to you all, at any price, there would still be absolutely nothing availiable at all. Don't believe me, tell me what you can independantly get for a Jaguar.

I am one of the good guys, however the plain fact is that Development costs for equipment to fully and properly access these cars goes through the roof, especially for stuff like ours that leaves absolutely no stone un turned in terms of the systems it covers and what degree of access or capability it provides in each. And that of course reflects directly in it's cost. BTW our equipment beats the absolute Pants of LR's own in respect of communication reliability and a lack of glitches.

Yea sure, there is now equipment around that pecks away at much of the older and easier stuff we did many years ago and follows our lead, apart from they don't quite provide all we do and depend on your never finding that out yourself. But let's just say that one would hardly do your own development work when someone has already done such as good a job as we did, and so these do provide a slightly lower cost option.

But, i ain't preaching or complaining, everyone already knows where we always seem to stand in respect of the quality and capability of our equipment, we are, always have been, and always intend to be diagnostic equipment equivilent to what the Range Rover is in 4x4's.

Sure everyone wishes our equipment were cheaper, just like they might wish that a Range Rover could be bought for cheap nasty 4x4 money, but that is just not being realistic of the situation at all and frankly no matter what price it was, people will always say its too xpensive and it should be cheaper.

We could of course strip out all the nice stuff we do, like saving as HTML and restoring, AVI or CSV capture etc, strip out the features and capabilities to the bare minimum, well how would you know whats missing, skip covering absolutely all the ECU's, go to a PC, with all the unreliability it gives rather than use a dedicated vehicle communications server, and then we could produce a system to rival the cost of the many lesser ones we are so often compared against, but that really is not who we are or what we do and from the 10-25 Thousand GBP days when we first covered Discovery 2, and supplied kit that others now copy from, we have done an awful lot to bring that down to more affordable levels and within reach for private individuals and enthusiasts.

With our single vehicle licencing for example, we have found a unique and innovative way to offer our top of the line full capability system at much the same cost as most of the lesser stuff now bandied around, with only the loss of the ability to show it off on a Mates Car rather than your own or that if you have 2 cars, you have to pay a fee to add the other.

I can truly understand that those not familiar with our equipment might well assume all diagnostic equipment is the same, and therefore our adding a VIN restriction is bad, but that's really looking at it from very much the wrong point of view and if you really think all diagnostic equipment is the same, then you must think the same of 4x4's.

Our single vehicle licence is designed for a user to cover just one single vehicle only. Namely the one they own at any one point in time, As opposed to a business user needing to access all vehicles.
Our equipment can however have anything up to 3 single vehicles registered on it or even some multi vehicle modules or a combination of both.

We wish we could lock our system to a given owner / user by some form of electronic implant, and call it a single owner Licence but that's impracticable. so the best we can do is lock it to their current vehicle by VIN and provide an easy and cheap upgrade or transfer path for them as possible.

So if you buy an SV system from us for a 2002 on L322 and you later upgrade to a later model or sell the system on to someone who has the same or later year model, the cost to transfer the system to another cars VIN is nothing more than a small Admin fee, and the entry of a code. This often overlooked factor has seem many owners resell their equipment usually for more than 80% of its origional purchase cost, thanks no doubt to it's well earned reputation.

Anyway i hope my efforts to explain and provide information not usually known or appreciated have been of some use and help.

Colin

[Michael2]

Thanks Colin. I suppose it's like multi-meters. There's always a multi-meter that costs more and has more functions. I would expect my auto electricians multi-meter to do more than mine, but volts, ohms and a tacho function got me out of most situations with older petrol Land Rovers.

Most of us are looking for something that would cover what an enthusiast who does their own maintenance and most repairs would require and could afford. If I ran a workshop, or came from a country with a stronger currency, then the higher end equipment would be all I'd be looking at.

[lewisslime]

Wanglemoose
Where did you get your Hawkeye unit from?
Thanks
Simon

[bluedisco2]

I have a hawkeye unit, I bought it for my d2 and it is very simple to use and covers all the systems in the d2. I have since got it unlocked for the p38rr as i own one of them now and it does do most systems but for the air bag and the air suspension it needs extra dongles, it also wont talk to the HEVAC unit or the security system in the p38, these should be in the next upgrade.
Personally I think it is a great tool but it seems they put more into the development for particular models. The real bonus with the hawkeye is it doesn't lock to vin numbers so if you get a different vehicle you can still use it. Like any diag equipment you have to look at all of whats out there and find what best suits you.
hope this helps.
cheers
mick
It seems like you and i are on the same wavelength i fear! I too have a well set up D2 for touring and bush duties and i've just purchased a mint P38 to use as the town car. I also have a hawkeye and my question is this - how much did it cost you to unlock for the P38?
cheers,
Deano

[peter51]

It is important to budget for the best diagnostic tool when you make a Landrover purchasing decision. Let’s face it these cars are a steal second hand.
My last two cars have been P38’s. Initially I used basic OBD tools. My logic was that I could just read the code and fix the offending part. This turned out to be intellectual laziness on my part. In reality the codes alone never made fixing the fault as simple as you would expect.
For example: The car was misfiring intermittently at highway speed – could be many things really? But the code reader should be able to pinpoint the problem straight away – right?
The OBD scanner said the knock sensor had failed- fitted a new one. Problem still there. Checked code again –New fault - Oxy sensor reading out of range. Suspicious? -but fitted a new one. The problem remained but seemed less prevalent. The system was now fault code free however.
The next to go was the CAT – due to the misfire. (I had to commute to work daily and couldn’t have the car off the road.) Eventually by trial and error found it was an intermittent coil pack. I put the original oxy sensor back on and back probed the input signal to the ECU to watch the oxy sensor output during warm-up and cruise. It operated normally – the OBD fault code was because of the misfire I.E showing continuous out of range value.
The OBD code was a translated fault and not an actual fault.

It cost me money for parts I didn’t need to replace –about $400 as I recall.
So when I purchased my next P38 (after a cracked block episode) I decided to budget for car plus the most powerful diagnostic on the market – MSV2 Extreme. With the sale of my wife’s car (Nissan Xtrail) I was able to cover the cost of the 2000 P38, MSV2 extreme from Hard Range (Good blokes) and an EMER SVi gas system.
This piece of kit is very powerful and the first thing I did was to make video AVI files of all inputs/outputs and put that in a file for future reference. By watching the videos at home I can observe and interpret the recorded data – idle, freeway cruise, hard acceleration, towing the boat, coasting etc. etc.
It allows you to really understand the complete feedback mechanisms inside the ECU. Fuel base trim, TPS dynamic trims, Oxygen sensor feedback trims, transient compensations, knock control etc.
This makes it so much easier to trace a fault at later stage or to see how parameters have changed with the age of the engine– no matter where you are in Australia.
If you really want to know all about your vehicle systems, then budget for the MSV extreme when you purchase the vehicle. It gives peace of mind knowing you can be self-sufficient and confident with these complex motor cars as they age.
I have no interests in the manufacturer of this kit – just a satisfied user who is very grateful that someone took the time to research and build these things to help us with our passion for Landrover.
My endless gratitude to whoever they are – I can enjoy the glorious purr of the Landy V8 for many years to come.


Attached is a photo of my car and,out of human concern, a photo to cater to the usual interests and whims of any lurking Toyota owners.

[justinc]

It is important to budget for the best diagnostic tool when you make a Landrover purchasing decision. Let’s face it these cars are a steal second hand.
My last two cars have been P38’s. Initially I used basic OBD tools. My logic was that I could just read the code and fix the offending part. This turned out to be intellectual laziness on my part. In reality the codes alone never made fixing the fault as simple as you would expect.
For example: The car was misfiring intermittently at highway speed – could be many things really? But the code reader should be able to pinpoint the problem straight away – right?
The OBD scanner said the knock sensor had failed- fitted a new one. Problem still there. Checked code again –New fault - Oxy sensor reading out of range. Suspicious? -but fitted a new one. The problem remained but seemed less prevalent. The system was now fault code free however.
The next to go was the CAT – due to the misfire. (I had to commute to work daily and couldn’t have the car off the road.) Eventually by trial and error found it was an intermittent coil pack. I put the original oxy sensor back on and back probed the input signal to the ECU to watch the oxy sensor output during warm-up and cruise. It operated normally – the OBD fault code was because of the misfire I.E showing continuous out of range value.
The OBD code was a translated fault and not an actual fault.

It cost me money for parts I didn’t need to replace –about $400 as I recall.
So when I purchased my next P38 (after a cracked block episode) I decided to budget for car plus the most powerful diagnostic on the market – MSV2 Extreme. With the sale of my wife’s car (Nissan Xtrail) I was able to cover the cost of the 2000 P38, MSV2 extreme from Hard Range (Good blokes) and an EMER SVi gas system.
This piece of kit is very powerful and the first thing I did was to make video AVI files of all inputs/outputs and put that in a file for future reference. By watching the videos at home I can observe and interpret the recorded data – idle, freeway cruise, hard acceleration, towing the boat, coasting etc. etc.
It allows you to really understand the complete feedback mechanisms inside the ECU. Fuel base trim, TPS dynamic trims, Oxygen sensor feedback trims, transient compensations, knock control etc.
This makes it so much easier to trace a fault at later stage or to see how parameters have changed with the age of the engine– no matter where you are in Australia.
If you really want to know all about your vehicle systems, then budget for the MSV extreme when you purchase the vehicle. It gives peace of mind knowing you can be self-sufficient and confident with these complex motor cars as they age.
I have no interests in the manufacturer of this kit – just a satisfied user who is very grateful that someone took the time to research and build these things to help us with our passion for Landrover.
My endless gratitude to whoever they are – I can enjoy the glorious purr of the Landy V8 for many years to come.


Attached is a photo of my car and,out of human concern, a photo to cater to the usual interests and whims of any lurking Toyota owners.




...Now THATS living on the edge!!!:eek:



:p:p:p:p:p


JC

[daljames]

I bought the MSV2 Extreme Faultmate and have a few comments. Firstly the quality of the product is OUTSTANDING. The reliability of the product is outstanding. The functionality available in them is awesome.

They really help you know your car better and once up and running are VERY easy to use. They are however, very daunting to first set up, with very little help to help keen owners that want to, and will, look after their cars and learn more about them, but just need the trainer wheels on for the first few days.

While BBS do provide a forum for owners to discuss the equipment and in most cases the software and user interface and for BBS to provide help. However, it is EXTREMELY INTIMIDATING for the novice, to the point where, for a few days, i felt i wanted my $1000 back. I felt treated like a moron for even buying the equipment let alone bothering the BBS operatives for asking basic questions. In fact, for the grand i spent, i felt totally ripped off with the total lack of help, especially when BBS refuse to help with windows 7. I use a MAC so Windows is already a headache for me just to try and understand, then to be told you need a machine with windows XP having just forked out another $600 for a windows 7 PC ('cos i couldnt buy a windows XP machine anymore) just for the Faultmate ****ed me off no end. Worse, you are not even told to buy an XP machine in literature prior to purchasing. Further, you also need a serial (rs232) port on your PC. Try getting one of those too. Why BBS have not updated to USB i am unsure (to quote the mad monk Tony Abbott i am not a "tech head") but it seems to be getting very outdated in these respects. BBS may say we offer old XP machines for sale, however it is better to be upfront first.

Additionally, i am having trouble with a couple of minor functions not working and have sought help via the BBS forums. It is specifically to do with being unable to turn ignition on and start the vehicle via the Vehicle Explorer software. I am constantly told the test unit works and it is not important to them as it is not to do with diagnostics. Well, if i start having trouble with my starting circuit in my P38, i would most definately like to use this function for diagnostic purposes. So i am unsure why i am being fobbed off there.

If Colin is reading this i hope he will take it as constructive feedback from a VERY satisfied customer who recommends his product to all LR owners and would most definately be buying from him again. In fact, i am looking at second LR specifically because of the functionality available to owners with the BBS gear to help understand your car better. I just hope this gives a balanced view with the good and the bad of the faultmate/BBS experience. So your not as one eyed with it as i am toward my P38!