Beach Driving Defender

[snipe]

Guys

First post but have spent hours crawling over the info here, its excellent. Picked up a new 110 defender 3 weeks ago, love it so far. Going to make Fraser its first real trip.

Have the std tyres - what do you guys that have the same run the psi at when beach driving? I've been told as low as 10, high as 20, was thinking 15 a fair safe hedge bet?

Appreciate feedback

[scanfor]

45 psi rear, 28 psi front - I never let them down for the beaches at Straddie or Teewah, never had any problems.

[Snake2093]

Hi there,

Ther tyre pressure really relies on the conditions. If you are loading up the truck you may want to lower the pressures a bit. When on Fraser I put mine to 18psi allround, that will see you through situation on fraser.
Just remember if you seems to get struck , you can lower them more if you wish. 9 times of 10 people get bogged due to tyre pressure. Also slow down when tyre pressures are lower and avoid heavy braking..
Have fun on the first trip.:D

[Drover]

15 - 18 psi is pretty much a good pressure if the sand is reasonable firm.

You can go as low as 10psi is the sand is soft. Soft sand is usually found on a hot day or when the sand has very low water content in it.

If you run a higher pressure (15-18psi) and get stuck you would drop to 8-10psi to get out. Also you might find the vehicle struggling if the tryre pressures are to high. You will have to judge this for your self. Try to feel if the vehicle is on top of the sand or pushing through it.

If you run 12's you will cruise around all day, stop - start without any problems.

An old trick when you stop is to reverse back over you tread marks a few meters before taking off. Reason being is that you are driving on already compressed sand
;).

[Milton477]

45 psi rear, 28 psi front - I never let them down for the beaches at Straddie or Teewah, never had any problems.

I didn't think such irresponsibility existed on this forum. You are the kind of guy I won't help when you do get stuck with your hard tyres & believe me you will.

[lardy]

I didn't think such irresponsibility existed on this forum. You are the kind of guy I won't help when you do get stuck with your hard tyres & believe me you will.

If you use sand mats/waffle boards on real soft stuff tie some para cord to them, and leave it trailing to the outside of the vehicle left and right.
Attach the other end to the grab handles on the back of your vehicle, this way you can keep driving onto firm sand before picking them up

[Debacle]

I didn't think such irresponsibility existed on this forum. You are the kind of guy I won't help when you do get stuck with your hard tyres & believe me you will.

Rips things up for those following behind too. 20psi and a brain is quite adequate.

[scanfor]

Fair enough I suppose, but 25 years of beach driving experience says otherwise.
Irresponsible? No.
Ability to drive to suit conditions - yes.
Ripping things up for those following? It's the beach, not a bush track - nothing gets ripped up.

[DeeJay]

Fair enough I suppose, but 25 years of beach driving experience says otherwise.
Irresponsible? No.
Ability to drive to suit conditions - yes.
Ripping things up for those following? It's the beach, not a bush track - nothing gets ripped up.

I'll just be polite & say that advising a new owner that highway pressure is Ok for Fraser Island is poor advice.

[Debacle]

Fair enough I suppose, but 25 years of beach driving experience says otherwise.
Irresponsible? No.
Ability to drive to suit conditions - yes.
Ripping things up for those following? It's the beach, not a bush track - nothing gets ripped up.

Yes, i've had a similar amount of experience of beach driving. It's not the driving on the beach I'm referring to, it's the access tracks and bypass tracks which are where people usually get into trouble driving on road pressures especially on places like Fraser. You can do most of Straddie and Teewah in a subaru, but getting up to the Cape or anywhere past Orchid Bch on Fraser is a little different. Just because it's a beach doesn't mean you need to treat it different to a bush track. Tread Lightly.

[cal415]

Fair enough I suppose, but 25 years of beach driving experience says otherwise.
Irresponsible? No.
Ability to drive to suit conditions - yes.
Ripping things up for those following? It's the beach, not a bush track - nothing gets ripped up.

Your an idiot... soft sand needs low pressure... the higher your pressures the more you cut in, the harder you work the car etc. But your 25yrs experience obviously means this poor bloke first time out on the sand should run just fine full pressure. The only time running full road pressures is ok on the sand is when its below the tide mark on the hard packed highway like edge, but even then i drop my pressure incase its needed.

AS for not cutting up the tracks, have you driving Frasers inland tracks lately????

Drop them to 15 at least, if your carrying a big load keep an eye on them you might want to run slightly higher in the rears if most of the weights over the rear axle. Last trip i did there in my prado running 17s i drove everywhere on 12psi and i was carrying a good load for most of it. Better safe then sorry, we pulled many stuck trucks out including land rovers, because the drivers thought they would be fine without airing down, then they get stuck, air down but find they are bellied out..... We pulled out several that had aired down but didnt know how to drive. we even watched people get stuck before they even got on the barge.

[scanfor]

You make a good point Debacle.
The approaches to the beach and bypass tracks would be different.
That few metres of churny sand getting on and off the beach is generally the only soft bit that I encounter, the rest of the beach (unless you try to drive it at high-tide) is usually like concrete.

[87County]

You make a good point Debacle.
The approaches to the beach and bypass tracks would be different.
That few metres of churny sand getting on and off the beach is generally the only soft bit that I encounter, the rest of the beach (unless you try to drive it at high-tide) is usually like concrete.

... and with your quoted pressures it must feel like you're sitting directly on the concrete :D

[Savanahkelpy]

Never having been to Frazer island, i suspect its a great place, but i still cringe at the thought of taking your rover into a VERY high salt enviroment. I don,t care how mant times you hose or wash it out, or what anti rust measures you have in place, you don,t want to be planning to hang on to your rover for much more than 10 years, as it WILL be a rust bucket by then, for sure.
Still, i hope you have fun, and do whats needed to aviod getting stuck.:D

[MacFamily]

Never having been to Frazer island, i suspect its a great place, but i still cringe at the thought of taking your rover into a VERY high salt enviroment. I don,t care how mant times you hose or wash it out, or what anti rust measures you have in place, you don,t want to be planning to hang on to your rover for much more than 10 years, as it WILL be a rust bucket by then, for sure.
Still, i hope you have fun, and do whats needed to aviod getting stuck.:D


What has that got to do with tyres pressures if you dont want to drive on the beach then so be it.We are all full aware of what salt can do.

I plan on hanging on to my defender for many years to come and have already cut out cancer from my defender from previous owner.There are many things you can do to prevent rust and also get rid of rust.

Back on the subject I run mine between 17 to 20psi pending on load and conditions.Anyway enjoy frazer its a great place have only been there once but much enjoyed with fellow landrover forum members.

[Savanahkelpy]

What has that got to do with tyres pressures if you dont want to drive on the beach then so be it.We are all full aware of what salt can do.

I plan on hanging on to my defender for many years to come and have already cut out cancer from my defender from previous owner.There are many things you can do to prevent rust and also get rid of rust.

Back on the subject I run mine between 17 to 20psi pending on load and conditions.Anyway enjoy frazer its a great place have only been there once but much enjoyed with fellow landrover forum members.

I just avoided mentioning tyre pressures because there is enough information from previous contributors. Im also restoring a Defender, having had to replace the whole rear cross member to to salt caused rust.
Its just a lot of work, that is possible to avoid, and it nearly always seems to be the next owner who gets the task, when its a new or near new vehicle, so we,re in the same boat.:)

[series3]

The way I see it, you may as well let them down nice and low to avoid getting into trouble in the first place. Low pressures and conservative gear choices allow you to do most things with ease.

Not sure if this is good practise or not, but I usually do my tires by eye, ie watch until they are bagging out nicely to get the desired effect.

[Albert]

Not sure if this is good practise or not, but I usually do my tires by eye, ie watch until they are bagging out nicely to get the desired effect.

I usually do the same, last time on Frazer I was down to 20psi in the rears with a full load, other times and places they look as baggy with 15psi in them.

I only had trouble in one spot, as most people did. Only get as far as everyone else before it bogged out. There was even a bloke in a souped up FJ40 charging $20 to tow you up the hill! After watching another 15 do exactly the same thing, I went down to low 1st and at a fast idle went over with out any trouble.

[rijidij]

45 psi rear, 28 psi front - I never let them down for the beaches at Straddie or Teewah, never had any problems.

Anyone can drive along a hard packed beach with road pressures in the tyres.....you could even do that in a Falcon or Commodoore.
Try to drive the coastal route from Carpenter Rocks to Robe SA with your suggested pressures and I guarantee 100%, you will get bogged to your diffs several times, even on some of the beaches right on the waterline. You might know the beaches well in your region, but the variation in the sand around the country is huge.



I'll just be polite & say that advising a new owner that highway pressure is Ok for Fraser Island is poor advice.

I agree with DeeJay, very poor advise to a new owner.

Murray

[vnx205]

The way I see it, you may as well let them down nice and low to avoid getting into trouble in the first place. Low pressures and conservative gear choices allow you to do most things with ease.

Not sure if this is good practice or not, but I usually do my tires by eye, ie watch until they are bagging out nicely to get the desired effect.

I don't know if it is really good practice or not, but I am sure I read somewhere that the correct amount of air to let out is whatever is needed to get the rims to be 3/4 of the height off the ground that they are at normal pressure. I'm sure someone with a better memory or more experience in sand will either confirm or contradict that theory.

I have also read that the first few psi you let out makes very little difference, but when you reach a certain point, the same drop in pressure makes a big difference.

In other words letting your tyres down 4 psi from 24 to 20 is pretty much a waste of time, but letting them down just 2 psi from 16 to 14 makes a huge difference.

Those figures might not be exact for every vehicle, but I'm sure you get the idea.

[series3]

It's also important to note that different psi will work for different wheel/tyre combinations, sizes and constructions, vehicle weight and weight distribution etc etc.. Some need more goading than others.

psi rating reccomendations are hit and miss because a huge amount of variables between people's cars.

[VladTepes]

First of all.... welcome to the forum Snipe !

If you haven't already done so - have a read of the threads "Vlad's Fraser Odyssey I and II (as well as a couple of other Fraser threads I've done). I think you'll find them useful.


As you have gathered from the debate in this thread, there are 2 distinct driving environments on Fraser. The hard packed sand on the beach, and the softer sand of the inland tracks (esp around Orchid Beach) and various cuttings (eg around Indian Head, for example).

The hard packed sand is very much like bitumen in many respects and can often be driven at the speed limit of 80kph (with due care and looking out for wash-outs on the beach of course). If your pressures are too low (and in my opinion this means 14psi or lower) a lot of heat will build up in the tyres. Some would argue that in the long term this can damage the sidewall. By far the bigger risk of lower pressures is that the lower the pressure the more likely a tyre is to roll off the rim, with potentially disastrous consequences if travelling at speed.

On the softer sand however road pressures will make it very difficult to negotiate soft sand and (especially as a novice sand driver) will make it extremely likely to get bogged in such places. Aside from the embarrassment this can be a very frustrating experience as you may be left blocking an access track and find that some people are not very tolerant or understanding.

Now naturally it would be a royal pain in the posterior to be adjusting tyre pressures a lot, so a "happy medium" is probably best.

I had always used 18psi (the reason is not important) however on recent trips in a fully loaded Defender 130 found 22psi to be perfectly adequate.

If I were you I'd try 22psi and if you feel that you need to let it down a bit, you can. (more easily than you can inflate it anyway).

Trust me as your experience in sand driving grows you'll get more of a feel of what works best for you and your vehicle.

Lastly, remember that there are other important issues to consider.
Keep a sharp eye on beach conditions (a plunge into a deep washout or creek can ruin your day),
Don't make sudden turns on sand (rollover risk); and
Be aware of the tide times - don't want to get stuck on the beach with a rapidly rising tide !

But MOST OF ALL it's not rocket science so don't get too intimidated by all the "factors' and robust debate (aka argument) going on in this thread, Heck, if I can do it anyone can so get out there and enjoy it !

Cheers

[vnx205]

It's also important to note that different psi will work for different wheel/tyre combinations, sizes and constructions, vehicle weight and weight distribution etc etc.. Some need more goading than others.

psi rating reccomendations are hit and miss because a huge amount of variables between people's cars.

IIRC, that was the reason that the article I read suggested that the effect on the tyre was more important than the actual pressure.

Apparently the contact patch is much longer at about that point. I was also going to mention that the article made the point that it is the length of the contact patch that matters, not the width, but to do that would risk starting one of those "religious" debates where both side know they are right and no-one is ever going to change their mind. So I won't mention it. :p

[ugu80]

45 psi rear, 28 psi front - I never let them down for the beaches at Straddie or Teewah, never had any problems.

He just wants a photo of the newbie's defer underwater at high tide.

[snipe]

Thanks guys, relatively simple question I thought that has got some really great advice and some advice that maybe I should take with a grain of salt - but its a free speech forum so thanks to all .

Have actually done a bit of beach driving, but just not in this car so I really appreciate the advice given.

Will be up there from the 11th June - I am sure I will chat to any defender drivers up there.

In fact, I had an awesome moment worth telling - before I bought the car, I had been telling the girlfriend about the defender wave. Anyway, the day we picked it up from the dealer, I was about to pull out out on the road for the first time and a defender drove past and gave us the salute. So I think that must be some sort of record, less than 50 metres on the speedo and a legitimate wave!!!!

Ta

[Gav110]

First of all.... welcome to the forum Snipe !

If you haven't already done so - have a read of the threads "Vlad's Fraser Odyssey I and II (as well as a couple of other Fraser threads I've done). I think you'll find them useful.


As you have gathered from the debate in this thread, there are 2 distinct driving environments on Fraser. The hard packed sand on the beach, and the softer sand of the inland tracks (esp around Orchid Beach) and various cuttings (eg around Indian Head, for example).

The hard packed sand is very much like bitumen in many respects and can often be driven at the speed limit of 80kph (with due care and looking out for wash-outs on the beach of course). If your pressures are too low (and in my opinion this means 14psi or lower) a lot of heat will build up in the tyres. Some would argue that in the long term this can damage the sidewall. By far the bigger risk of lower pressures is that the lower the pressure the more likely a tyre is to roll off the rim, with potentially disastrous consequences if travelling at speed.

On the softer sand however road pressures will make it very difficult to negotiate soft sand and (especially as a novice sand driver) will make it extremely likely to get bogged in such places. Aside from the embarrassment this can be a very frustrating experience as you may be left blocking an access track and find that some people are not very tolerant or understanding.

Now naturally it would be a royal pain in the posterior to be adjusting tyre pressures a lot, so a "happy medium" is probably best.

I had always used 18psi (the reason is not important) however on recent trips in a fully loaded Defender 130 found 22psi to be perfectly adequate.

If I were you I'd try 22psi and if you feel that you need to let it down a bit, you can. (more easily than you can inflate it anyway).

Trust me as your experience in sand driving grows you'll get more of a feel of what works best for you and your vehicle.

Lastly, remember that there are other important issues to consider.
Keep a sharp eye on beach conditions (a plunge into a deep washout or creek can ruin your day),
Don't make sudden turns on sand (rollover risk); and
Be aware of the tide times - don't want to get stuck on the beach with a rapidly rising tide !

But MOST OF ALL it's not rocket science so don't get too intimidated by all the "factors' and robust debate (aka argument) going on in this thread, Heck, if I can do it anyone can so get out there and enjoy it !

Cheers

Just noticed Staun beadlocks on sale for $550 for a set on eBay - if you wanted insurance against rolling off the rim !

16"x8" staun internal bead locks set of 4 - eBay 4x4 Accessories, Exterior, Car Parts, Accessories, Cars, Bikes, Boats. (end time 27-May-10 15:28:37 AEST) (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/16-x8-staun-internal-bead-locks-set-4-/230475949952?cmd=ViewItem&pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item35a96fe780)

-> overkill for normal beach work (As with Vlad and others I find 15-18 PSI gets me out over everything) but not a bad insurance policy for all sorts of terrain!

[clean32]

I cant claim to be a good sand driver but i tend to run my tiers like this.

highway 45
gravel or dirt roads 30 - 35
rocky slate or ground with a lot of sticks and sharp stuff 25-30

sand I just go to 20 off the bat, have been as low as 10 to get out of a hole, the difference between 20psi and 10psi is quite noticeable.

the other things is a lower gear and keeping the revs up. as well as a bit of momentum helps

[Reads90]

Never having been to Frazer island, i suspect its a great place, but i still cringe at the thought of taking your rover into a VERY high salt enviroment. I don,t care how mant times you hose or wash it out, or what anti rust measures you have in place, you don,t want to be planning to hang on to your rover for much more than 10 years, as it WILL be a rust bucket by then, for sure.
Still, i hope you have fun, and do whats needed to aviod getting stuck.:D

Mmmm the car comes from a country where they put salt on the roads for 4 months of the year . Where driving to work in the morning is worse than any trip to Fraser . The car will be alright. Both my defenders have been to Fraser, Morton ,straddie loads of times just make sure you give them a good clean and they will be ok

[VladTepes]

Gavster... beadlocks will almost certainly void your actual insurance policy though.
Insurance companies don;t take kindly to people drilling extra holes in a rim.