Which front springs for 110?

[Ranga]

Looking to replace the front springs as mine are sagging a little, and I eventually want to put a winch on the front.

I get get LR ones from Karcraft for ~$50ea + shipping, or Dobinsons from British Offroad for ~$80ea.

Any suggestions? I don't want/need to go about factory height.

[Xtreme]

I'd suggest the 130 fronts from Karcraft - They are the recommended 110 HD spring and work well with the std rears and a good set of shocks.

[camel_landy]

...which are also the same part as Std 90 rears.

M

[Allan]

I put a set of 130 fronts on my 110 with ARB bar and winch, no sag and LR springs are cheap as chips and good gear

Allan

[land864]

Part numbers and $ please Al:)

[Ranga]

Karcraft have quoted me $140 including shipping to Brisbane for the pair. I think I'm going with them, unless someone can suggest a better option.

[Allan]

Part numbers and $ please Al:)
Part no. of 130 front springs are NRC9448 and NRC9449. From memory about $90 each. As I said I am very happy with the results on my Puma.

Allan

[land864]

Ranga
Are you sure?
I was just quoted $ 224 / pair + $28 deliv= $ 252 deliv to Melb for LR Part # NRC9448 and 9449 ?
Are the $ 140 ones Kings or LR or other?

Allen
Where were your $ 180 set from please ?

Pete

[Ranga]

Ranga
Are you sure?
I was just quoted $ 224 / pair + $28 deliv= $ 252 deliv to Melb for LR Part # NRC9448 and 9449 ?
Are the $ 140 ones Kings or LR or other?

Allen
Where were your $ 180 set from please ?

Pete
Where did you get the quote for $252?

I've just ordered my LR ones from Karcraft Australia Pty Ltd (http://www.karcraft.com.au) over the phone, and confirmed the price all up including delivery is $140.80. Details below (sorry about the dodgy copy/paste). The last column is the price ex GST.

NRC9449 <B> SPRING - ROAD - L/R DEF 110 (H DUTY)(LHF)+130 (STD) 1 1 87.66 51.00 51.00
NRC9448 <B> SPRING - ROAD - L/R DEF 110 (H DUTY)(RHF)+130 (STD) 1 1 87.66 51.00 51.00
ZZZFRTPOST FREIGHT - AUSTRALIA POST 1 1 9,999.00 26.00 26.00

[Allan]

Where did you get the quote for $252?

I've just ordered my LR ones from Karcraft Australia Pty Ltd (http://www.karcraft.com.au) over the phone, and confirmed the price all up including delivery is $140.80. Details below (sorry about the dodgy copy/paste). The last column is the price ex GST.

NRC9449 <B> SPRING - ROAD - L/R DEF 110 (H DUTY)(LHF)+130 (STD) 1 1 87.66 51.00 51.00
NRC9448 <B> SPRING - ROAD - L/R DEF 110 (H DUTY)(RHF)+130 (STD) 1 1 87.66 51.00 51.00
ZZZFRTPOST FREIGHT - AUSTRALIA POST 1 1 9,999.00 26.00 26.00


I bought mine from Barbagallo Land Rover in Osbourne Park at $92.01 plus tax each

Allan

[land864]

:bangin:

Silly me , that price was for 4:angel:

Not sure how that works out but anyways , back on track now and ordered.

Pete

[Ranga]

:bangin:

Silly me , that price was for 4:angel:

Not sure how that works out but anyways , back on track now and ordered.

Pete

That sounds better :)

[land864]

Thanks Ranga

Go Brissy Bears :eek:

Pete

[ciapek]

Just ordered mine from Karcraft as well, I was inspired to "pull my finger out" and finally do the job I've been putting off for a while.
$141.90Delivered to Melbourne.
Thx to all posters for the motivation and part numbers to make my life easier.

[land864]

Doing mine this weekend ciapek:)
Or I should say, a mate is doing it:cool:
I do his plumbing , he does my mechanics;)

[Didge]

I'l tell ya guys, Karcraft (Silverwater, Sydney) are the go. I just bought a new fuel tank from them for $272, same thing from TR spares at Padstow, Sydney was $316. Then I bought a brake master cylinder reservoir kit for $61.62 and TR spares wanted $116. An extra 1 hour driving all up and $3 of fuel and I saved over $50. I'll do that all day!

[land864]

Have to agree , the service was great:)

Overnight from Syd to Melb.

May have to include them when pricing all future bits.

Cheaper than Melb prices and that's with Karcraft including freight:eek:

[ciapek]

Just a quick question fellow "adventurers".
Springs turned up today, fantastic effort from Karcraft !
The Longer spring goes on the DRIVERS side.....Am I correct ? :eek:

Changeover booked in for the weekend, my mate is doing the hard yards, my job is to keep him drunk for all his efforts. Fair trade me thinks....lol...

[rick130]

Just a quick question fellow "adventurers".
Springs turned up today, fantastic effort from Karcraft !
The Longer spring goes on the DRIVERS side.....Am I correct ? :eek:

[snip]

Yes, and fella's, please resist posting Karcraft's prices.
They are importers/wholesalers and their retailers give them major grief if you go posting up numbers ;)
and yes, they are fantastic to deal with.

[land864]

:oops2:

Maybe a policy of PM's for pricing would be best;)

[land864]

Ciapek

NRC 9448 . Blue/red paint goes on front drivers side

NRC 9449 , Yellow/white paint goes on front passenger side

Pete G

[jerryd]

Can I assume these springs are standard height springs ?? What rear springs go with these ??

They quoted me the same as you guys ;)

[ciapek]

Can I assume these springs are standard height springs ?? What rear springs go with these ??

They quoted me the same as you guys ;)

These springs will level out your front height back to normal(Stock Form) and take out the sag from the bullbar. As for the rears Im not sure, I've had my Stock rears in the Fender since new, (MY2003), they are still functioning perfectly, no sag whatsoever.:)

[Allan]

These springs will level out your front height back to normal(Stock Form) and take out the sag from the bullbar. As for the rears Im not sure, I've had my Stock rears in the Fender since new, (MY2003), they are still functioning perfectly, no sag whatsoever.:)

Same with mine, just doing the same mod to the wife's 90. Since all the drama's with ARB 2 inch lift on the Puma I only use LR springs and I am very happy with the result, I just fiddle with the shocks and tyres

Allan

[Didge]

Sorry for posting $$ guys, didn't know it would cause grief. Happy to follow suggestions.
cheers Gerald

[land864]

All done :D

MEASUREMENTS BEFORE AND AFTER (under wheel arch flares)

Before - Rear: 908mm Front: 858mm

After - Rear: 908mm Front: 908 mm :D

It seems to ride better also. It feels as though the old springs were under too much compression and did not have enough give.
New springs transform the feel in the front end:)

Highly recommend it;)

[ciapek]

All done :D

MEASUREMENTS BEFORE AND AFTER (under wheel arch flares)

Before - Rear: 908mm Front: 858mm

After - Rear: 908mm Front: 908 mm :D

It seems to ride better also. It feels as though the old springs were under too much compression and did not have enough give.
New springs transform the feel in the front end:)

Highly recommend it;)

Same here, all good.
Very happy with the ride, I was a little concerned that they will be much firmer as the coils had a constant rate on them as opposed to the old springs which were a dual rate.
Funny though, after being used to the droop on the front for so long, I can't believe the new feel of the car with the front being much higher. :D

[5teve]

Same with mine, just doing the same mod to the wife's 90. Since all the drama's with ARB 2 inch lift on the Puma I only use LR springs and I am very happy with the result, I just fiddle with the shocks and tyres

Allan

Allan

What dramas did you have with the lift? I should be receiving my new shockies shortly and as a mate pointed out no point putting them in without replacing the saggy springs at the front (its only an aluminium bar with no winch but they sag) as the Shocks i have ordered are +2's i was thinking of going +2 on the springs... but i know you can have dramas with prop shafts castor etc etc..

so i'm now worried :)

Steve

[land864]

Hey Ciapek

What are your thoughts on the need for a new front end alignment ?

Pete

[Allan]

Allan

What dramas did you have with the lift? I should be receiving my new shockies shortly and as a mate pointed out no point putting them in without replacing the saggy springs at the front (its only an aluminium bar with no winch but they sag) as the Shocks i have ordered are +2's i was thinking of going +2 on the springs... but i know you can have dramas with prop shafts castor etc etc..

so i'm now worried :)

Steve

The two inch lift on my Puma caused propshaft issues, made the thing sound like the transmission had a bag of spanners in it . Caster change also caused vibration problems. I found only recourse due to sag from ARB bar and winch was LR 130 front springs as advised on this forum. I have +2 inch shocks and have fitted relocation cones. Setup works fine. Rear are standard springs also with same setup. I also removed both swaybars I am told these problems are caused by the angle that the Puma transmission sits in aspect to the front diff is the reason, dont know but I would not do a lift on a Puma again, cost me a lot of money to learn that lesson

Allan

[ciapek]

Hey Ciapek

What are your thoughts on the need for a new front end alignment ?

Pete

Funny you said that, I just got home, and today I had to do a stint at full speed on the Freeway(first run at speed since the changeover), front tyres sounded like MT's.
I have some new rubber coming next week, will have to book an alignment as well....:eek:

[Gav110]

Can I just confirm - if I switch to KarKraft 130 front springs for my Puma, will ride quality deteriorate? I had King constant rate springs on the front of my TD5 and it was harsh.

Can anyone who has changed them to KK 130 front springs with a 110 Puma confirm if the ride quality is the same or better? I have a bar and winch about to fit and am expecting sag, so keen to know.

Thanks

[rick130]

Can I just confirm - if I switch to KarKraft 130 front springs for my Puma, will ride quality deteriorate? I had King constant rate springs on the front of my TD5 and it was harsh.

Can anyone who has changed them to KK 130 front springs with a 110 Puma confirm if the ride quality is the same or better? I have a bar and winch about to fit and am expecting sag, so keen to know.

Thanks

Gav, what springs (paint code or Land Rover pt. #) are in the Puma ?
130 front springs are 225lb/in, 15.3"/14.8" free length.
In my experience most Kings springs are upwards of 280lb/in which is why the harsh ride.

Pretty sure Puma front springs are variable rate, something like 155-215lb/in but can't exactly recall. the paint splashes on the coils reveal all if you go here land rover spring specifications (http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/springinfo.html)

[Ranga]

Fitted the LR springs from Karcraft today well, helped Aaron (Macfamily) do it. Big thanks again for showing me how it's done!

Gained 60mm lift on the drivers side and 30mm lift on the passenger side, confirming my thoughts that the original springs had sagged, particularly on the drivers side.

Turned out that my shocks are rooted as well, but didn't realised until British Offroad and MR Auto had closed for the day.

So, I plan to change the shocks next weekend. I think I'll end up getting the Terrafirma jobs unless anyone can convince me of another option.

[Gav110]

Ranga, are the 130 HD springs constant rate? Anyone revised their Puma front springs yet to cope with bar & winch? If so what model do I order to get the best possible ride quality?

[Allan]

Ranga, are the 130 HD springs constant rate? Anyone revised their Puma front springs yet to cope with bar & winch? If so what model do I order to get the best possible ride quality?
Yes thay are constant rate. The part no. I listed in this thread earlier. I am more than happy with mine with an ARB bar and winch. I do not though use standard shocks, but I would not think this to be a problem

Allan

[rar110]

Fitted the LR springs from Karcraft today well, helped Aaron (Macfamily) do it. Big thanks again for showing me how it's done!

Gained 60mm lift on the drivers side and 30mm lift on the passenger side, confirming my thoughts that the original springs had sagged, particularly on the drivers side.

Turned out that my shocks are rooted as well, but didn't realised until British Offroad and MR Auto had closed for the day.

So, I plan to change the shocks next weekend. I think I'll end up getting the Terrafirma jobs unless anyone can convince me of another option.

Ranga, I fitted dobinson shocks and very happy with them, very big bore. Available direct or from Redlands 4WD. Can't comment on terrafirma shocks.

[dickyjoe]

Following from all of this, I assume the spring upgrades were for diesel engined 110's with cast iron engines.

I have a 4.4 P76 engined 110 which will have a a Thomas winch and bullbar on it. Any suggestions for springs for me? I have been looking on Kings Springs website and have a few codes and the like for there product but was wondering what others use?

Rich

[sclarke]

V8's like a lighter spring....

do you want it to be a good off roader and flex but be a tad sloppy to drive or do you want it to be nice on the hwy and ok in the bush???

i had the HD rover ones and have just ditched them as they are to stiff for a V8 110... ive just fitted 180lbs LRA coils.... im trying different heights to get the best lift i can before it causes greif with caster....

As a trial ive droped 87-91 RRC rears in the front as they are progressive 180lbs.... sits nice and i'll test flex on the weekend....
if it goes well i'll rip them out and fit red or orange LRA 180's in it...

Rears are a problem.... not much of a selection... i might have to go custom..

Clarkie

[miky]

My MY10 Defender 110 wagon is currently at the Adelaide LR dealer having it's first service and when I dropped it off this morning I asked about them fitting the HD springs as mentioned above - I even gave them the part numbers.
I wanted them to fit the springs.
They said they see about it and get back to me.

They just called to say that changing the springs WILL void the warranty.
So I guess I'm going to have to put up with some sag due to bar and winch.

Bit peeved actually.


.

[isuzurover]

My MY10 Defender 110 wagon is currently at the Adelaide LR dealer having it's first service and when I dropped it off this morning I asked about them fitting the HD springs as mentioned above - I even gave them the part numbers.
I wanted them to fit the springs.
They said they see about it and get back to me.

They just called to say that changing the springs WILL void the warranty.
So I guess I'm going to have to put up with some sag due to bar and winch.

Bit peeved actually.


.

It has been discussed many times on here that a dealer/LR cannot automatically void your warranty because an accessory is fitted. They can however make it difficult for you to get a warranty claim through, and jump through hoops/lawyers/engineers to prove that the accessory didn't cause the problem.

There have also been vibration problems on a number of pumas which have had raised suspension fitted.

[KarlB]

My MY10 Defender 110 wagon is currently at the Adelaide LR dealer having it's first service and when I dropped it off this morning I asked about them fitting the HD springs as mentioned above - I even gave them the part numbers.
I wanted them to fit the springs.
They said they see about it and get back to me.

They just called to say that changing the springs WILL void the warranty.
So I guess I'm going to have to put up with some sag due to bar and winch.

Bit peeved actually.

This sound sus. to me. Hook of an email to LRA and ask them if fitting heay duty springs would void the warranty. I am assuming you were proposing to fit OEM springs and not ones from an aftermarket manufacturer.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[Allan]

It has been discussed many times on here that a dealer/LR cannot automatically void your warranty because an accessory is fitted. They can however make it difficult for you to get a warranty claim through, and jump through hoops/lawyers/engineers to prove that the accessory didn't cause the problem.

There have also been vibration problems on a number of pumas which have had raised suspension fitted.

I've got Landrover 130 fronts in my Puma with ARB bar and winch and had no trouble with the dealer re warrenty issues. The 130 springs dont lift anyhow as far as I know they are just single rate and a little furmer if I remember rightly.

Allan

[Xtreme]

This sound sus. to me. Hook of an email to LRA and ask them if fitting heay duty springs would void the warranty. I am assuming you were proposing to fit OEM springs and not ones from an aftermarket manufacturer.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

^^ x2

Why do LRA list a heavy duty front spring option for the 110 if they won't warrany the fitting of same especially if a bar and winch were fitted and/or original standard rate springs have obviously sagged? :confused:

[miky]

^^ x2

Why do LRA list a heavy duty front spring option for the 110 if they won't warrany the fitting of same especially if a bar and winch were fitted and/or original standard rate springs have obviously sagged? :confused:

I have had a look on LRA website but cannot find springs as an option.

Xtreme, do you have a link that would help?


.

[Xtreme]

I have had a look on LRA website but cannot find springs as an option.

Xtreme, do you have a link that would help?


.

All I have is the attached table - unfortunately I'm not sure where I got it from.

[Loubrey]

Don't discount asking LRA directly if you have questions relating to warranty. The dealers need to get approval to do work and I get the feeling that sometimes they just can't be asked.

I'm not letting the dealers get out of honoring warranty through loopholes, so I e-mail LRA before I fit anything and print and file the replies.

My local dealer said dual batteries will void the warranty. The answer off LRA was the opposite (few conditions though) and this spring thing sounds the same. If it's Land Rover factory approved item like HD springs with proper part numbers logic would say it should be ok!

Give them a go and show your dealer the reply!

enquiries@landrovercustomers.com.au

Cheers

[Benny_IIA]

All I have is the attached table - unfortunately I'm not sure where I got it from.


This web site is better, gives rates for all LR springs and common after market ones aswell
http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/springinfo.html (http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/springinfo.html)

and also there is one for shock lenghts as well, if anyone is interested
land rover shock specifications (http://members.shaw.ca/red90/shockinfo.html)

[grover7488]

The 130 springs dont lift anyhow as far as I know they are just single rate and a little furmer if I remember rightly.

Allan

just fitted them to mine with the new ARB bar and winch it has come up about 35mm. might settle a little

[Allan]

just fitted them to mine with the new ARB bar and winch it has come up about 35mm. might settle a little

Do you have wire or rope on the winch? Mine came up very little, definatly not enough for the prop shaft death rattle. I didn't measure it so dont know. Does the 130 have more ground clearence up front than a 110?

Allan

[grover7488]

Do you have wire or rope on the winch?

rope




Does the 130 have more ground clearence up front than a 110?

Good question. Not sure have never measured a 130. if my local dealer gets one i will measure it

[Allan]

rope





Good question. Not sure have never measured a 130. if my local dealer gets one i will measure it


Ah, mine's wire, I think that may be why it didn't lift at all. thanks for that

Allan

[grover7488]

Ah, mine's wire, I think that may be why it didn't lift at all. thanks for that

Allan

yeah cable is pretty bloody heavy :o

My bar and winch combo weighed about 77kg (that ARB bar is heavy duty compared to the D2a TJM bar i had). less the 10kg stock bar and i've put 67kg extra.

[KarlB]

Weight is important but so is how far forward it is. Ideally your winch bar positions the winch up against the grill moulding. Some I have seen have the back of the winch 100 mm and more in front of the grill. Not only does this increase the load on the front springs, it also impacts on approach angle.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[sclarke]

My MY10 Defender 110 wagon is currently at the Adelaide LR dealer having it's first service and when I dropped it off this morning I asked about them fitting the HD springs as mentioned above - I even gave them the part numbers.
I wanted them to fit the springs.
They said they see about it and get back to me.

They just called to say that changing the springs WILL void the warranty.
So I guess I'm going to have to put up with some sag due to bar and winch.

Bit peeved actually.


.

Remind them it's a factory land rover part that is used standard in many models. What a joke. Do ford still have service input in landrover?? That's a ford mentality. My Holden is only 8 months old with a few after market parts. Warrantee. No problem. It's because they agree that Walkinshaw products are ok to fit. So landrover won't even warrant it's own heavy duty parts. Ring other dealers and get them to fit it

[PAT303]

Any part fitted to your vehicle,either a factory part or aftermarket part fitted by the dealer or the dealer approved supplier has factory warranty. Pat

[Iain_B]

I just asked LRA if fitting 130 front springs to my 110 would void the warranty, and they said it definitely would - in addition, they said that if I fitted a bullbar and winch that caused the front end to sag, then that also voids the warranty as I have added something that is different to "Factory Specification" and that the OEM land rover bull bars do not cause the front end to sag at all. Even though I said the dealer offered the ARB bullbar and winch in the original deal, they said any problems would be between me and the dealer then.

They also said that fitting a dual battery would also void warranty on" anything that was affected by it" - but they did not know what that would be until something failed - they they would assess whether the second battery was the cause.

As this is the first new car I have ever bought, I have no experience with warranties etc.

[Allan]

I just asked LRA if fitting 130 front springs to my 110 would void the warranty, and they said it definitely would - in addition, they said that if I fitted a bullbar and winch that caused the front end to sag, then that also voids the warranty as I have added something that is different to "Factory Specification" and that the OEM land rover bull bars do not cause the front end to sag at all. Even though I said the dealer offered the ARB bullbar and winch in the original deal, they said any problems would be between me and the dealer then.

They also said that fitting a dual battery would also void warranty on" anything that was affected by it" - but they did not know what that would be until something failed - they they would assess whether the second battery was the cause.

As this is the first new car I have ever bought, I have no experience with warranties etc.

I seem to remember dullbird checked on the 130 spring question with Land Rover and they stated as long as they are fitted by a dealer all is ok.
I have all the extras you mention and my warranty hasn't been stopped.

Allan

[SG1]

Hello,

I have been following this thread and others in this forum which suggest that fitting Genuine D130 front springs to a D110 with a front winch is a good option.

I have also read about many Defender Puma owners fitting the NRC 9448 and NRC 9449 front springs and being satisfied.

My specific question is: will the NRC 9448 and NRC 9449 front springs fit my 1999 built (Td5) Defender 110 ?

Or has there been any change in the front axle of the Defender (between early Td5 models and more recent Puma models) which will imply that the NRC 9448 and NRC 9449 front springs will not fit/work properly in my vehicle?

I am looking towards recovering the original height of the front of my D110 without sacrificing a comfortable ride (I have heard that many Heavy Duty, thick front springs result in a very harsh ride)......actually I have experienced this.....

Thanks
Regards,
Santiago, Argentina

[rick130]

Hi Santiago,
those spring numbers were used as the HD front spring from the 200 Tdi on so will fit straight into your front end.

What is your current bump stop clearance ?

[Xtreme]

I've fitted those springs to a 1994 200Tdi and a 2003 Td5 Defender and have been more than satisfied with both.
I usually fitted Koni dampers at the same time but know others who have stuck with the standard dampers and are also satisfied.

No reason why they won't work for you on your 1999 built Td5 Defender 110.

[Red90]

NRC9462/3 are also a good choice. Dual rate instead of single.

[Bushie]

HD front spring from Karcraft v original

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/47.jpg

They went in a bit over 4 years ago (with a set of Bilsteins) bought the front back to level.

I'm still running the original rears but now with airbags.


Martyn

[SG1]

Hi Santiago,
those spring numbers were used as the HD front spring from the 200 Tdi on so will fit straight into your front end.

What is your current bump stop clearance ?

Thanks Rick! You are always very helpful.
I will measure the bump stop clearance tomorrow and let you know.
By the way, I installed all the Super Pro bushes and have tried them in the rocks and on the road. They are SUPERB!
Cheers
Stgo

[SG1]

I've fitted those springs to a 1994 200Tdi and a 2003 Td5 Defender and have been more than satisfied with both.
I usually fitted Koni dampers at the same time but know others who have stuck with the standard dampers and are also satisfied.

No reason why they won't work for you on your 1999 built Td5 Defender 110.

Thanks Roger, I have Koni Raids (adjustable) on my D110, they should work fine with the Genuine D130 front spings, I guess.

Regards,
Stgo

[SG1]

NRC9462/3 are also a good choice. Dual rate instead of single.
Hello Red90,
What are those?

[460cixy]

Dobinson springs in mine got it back up to standard height with winch and bar work
C51-026 is the number

[rick130]

NRC9462/3 are also a good choice. Dual rate instead of single.

JB, have you moved your spring and gear charts somewhere new ?

[newhue]

SGI

How much weight do you have on the front. If I can quote Rick's info from past threads, standard coils are 225Lb/inch or 102kg/25mm. If your looking for a standard Landy ride then those rates should be your target. Then it's just a mater of spring length to lift the front's weight to level the car to how you want it.
For example I have a steel bar, winch with synthetic rope, and brush bars as extra weight over the the axel, totalling 70Kg.
For mid weight split between the F and R axels I have two sill tanks, two batteries, rock sliders, and a drivers seat space full of tools. Mu guess the front proportion of the weight is 160kg. My standard 130HD springs sat at 65mm between bump stops and diff. So I replaced them with the same rate, but with 17" coils. This initially gave me 100mm bump stop, but it has settles down to 90mm now.

Hope this makes sense or adds clarity. Because it took sometime for me to get it.

Ps the best way it so load you truck up with all its goodies for what you want the suspension for, and take it to the weigh bridge and get axel weights. That will help decipher spring length.
Personally I also would not buy any brand that sells there spring rates by Std, Heavy, or Heavy Duty. What does that mean?

[newhue]

sorry, I'll add the height of the standard height springs are 14.8 inch, or close to.

And standard diff and bumb heights, and it seem to differ, but I asked the dealer to have a look under a new car for me and they replied.

front 100mm 110, 130
Rear 130mm for 110
150mm for 130

I seem to recall my 130 with nothing on it when it was new sat at 80mm on the front.

[SG1]

Thanks Newhue, I have no chances of getting my D110 onto a weigh bridge so I will have to work it out in a simple/basic way.

I measured my bump stop clearence, it is simply awfull, shame on me........ :o anyways, here it goes:

Front drivers side (the other side compared to Australia): 47mmm
Front passenger side: 40mm (you can clearly see it has dropped more on this side without even measuring it).
Rear, both sides: 110mm

It takes 2 or 3 complete strokes of the high lift jack to in the front to get my D110 levelled, it is that bad, looks awafull.

Regarding weight in the front: I have a custom (locally) made aluminium alloy front bumper which weighs only 13 kgs and a 9500lb Milemarker electric winch with synthetic rope that must weigh around 35 kgs at the most. I imagine my front is heavier than standard but not THAT much heavier because of the synthetic rope and the aluminium bumper.

Appart from that my 2.8TGV engine weighs 208kgs, only 3 kilos more than a 300Tdi. I do not know how much heavier than a Td5 engine (my D110 used to be a Td5) but I believe the engine does not make any significant engine.

What do you think? Should the D130 springs be enough or should I go for firmer OME's?

Cheers and thanks for the help from that side of the world!
Santiago, Argentina

[newhue]

Hmm perhaps someone can report what a TD5 weighs, but I'd imagine similar to a 300.
It looks like the bum has drooped a bit as well. Are looking at redoing each corner or just the front.
For the front I'd say a set of genuine 130 coils would do but it may lift the nose a bit. You may have to do the rear, where some new std 110 would do the job.
This is assuming your set up is general duties. The 130 coils take a steel bar and winch well. Given you have an alloy bar I think you'll be fine.

[rick130]

Mate, you don't want more rate, just a longer free length.

Like Jason I run a nominal 17" free length, (17.2" actual length when new) 220lb/in front spring and have a touch over 100mm between the bump stops ATM with an ARB bull bar and Warn XD winch with wire cable.
IIRC I used to have around 65mm between the stops with the 225lb/15.5" 130 HD springs.
The 40mm you have between the stops is pretty low, I'd guess you'll be bottoming out a lot on road, my bump stops and pads are polished from just running around on bitumen roads.


You could even go softer in the rate and longer in the spring to get a better ride but your dampers will restrict the droop you can use.

[SG1]

Hmm perhaps someone can report what a TD5 weighs, but I'd imagine similar to a 300.
It looks like the bum has drooped a bit as well. Are looking at redoing each corner or just the front.
For the front I'd say a set of genuine 130 coils would do but it may lift the nose a bit. You may have to do the rear, where some new std 110 would do the job.
This is assuming your set up is general duties. The 130 coils take a steel bar and winch well. Given you have an alloy bar I think you'll be fine.

Hello Newhue,

Thanks for your advice. In the rear I have genuine standard D110 springs which I bought brand new and installed +/- 3 years ago. Despite they may have dropped a little bit I will make them last longer because.......guess what is the price we pay in Argentina for genuine Land Rover springs......+/- 215U$ EACH SPRING. Yes there is no mistake. In the UK they may be cheap buy down here genuine LR springs are a rip-off (or however you spell it). This is the reason why I installed local-made front "heavy duty" springs just 18 months ago and now my bump stop clearance is just 4 cms.......:mad:

By the way, my general suspension set-up is not original, it has been lifted 3.3 cms. However the bump stops and the dampers upper link to the chassis have been corrected accordingly so perhaps it is OK to say my setup is not heavily modified.
Thanks!
Cheers
Santiago

[SG1]

Mate, you don't want more rate, just a longer free length.

Like Jason I run a nominal 17" free length, (17.2" actual length when new) 220lb/in front spring and have a touch over 100mm between the bump stops ATM with an ARB bull bar and Warn XD winch with wire cable.
IIRC I used to have around 65mm between the stops with the 225lb/15.5" 130 HD springs.
The 40mm you have between the stops is pretty low, I'd guess you'll be bottoming out a lot on road, my bump stops and pads are polished from just running around on bitumen roads.


You could even go softer in the rate and longer in the spring to get a better ride but your dampers will restrict the droop you can use.

Wow, you've changed the perspective quite a bit.......if you are correct Rick the question is how would you go about buying longer springs of a +/- 220lbs/inch rate in Australia (or the UK or the US)? Can you buy them off-the -shelf or do you need to have them made just for you?

MANY thanks
Cheers,
Stgo

[bitdist]

I just got rear springs made at one of our local spring makers. I just tell him what I want and he makes them! Cheaper than the normal after market suppliers as well and you can get exactly what you want which is great.

I am just about to go and see him again to make another set of front springs for me.

Do you have any local spring makers over there ??

[goingbush]

i keep rabbiting on about how I had 130 front springs in my defender (with rear 130 inners) when I bought it and the articulation was useless. worse than my 105 toyota.

then I put standard 110 progressive front springs back in it and remove the rear inners and put in polyairs. then the articulation was what I expected.

http://goingbush.com/landy/ramp.jpg

Tve got the ARB bar and XD9000 winch on front and with the std defender spring the carts stance was decidedly nose down, I changed to synthetic rope and took some fruit off which helped a little.

I decided to try some King KRFS-03 (standard) front springs, non progressive, 14" free length. According to the King blurb they will raise the car about 1" .

Pic below shows king next to std 110 front spring

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/2.jpg

The King springs do have a left & right.

Actually the springs are better than I expected, The car sits level, It actually came up more than an inch in the front, more like 1 1/2" I hope it settles a bit. The ride is actually noticebly better, The old springs must have been knackered as the weaker progressive part of the coil was alsways squashed together when the car was sitting level.

Artticulation is not compromised, still just as good as the std 110 springs

Full droop, downward movement is stopped by the std length Bilstein
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/3.jpg

Full compression, car parked with axles articulated, would have a little more to go on a level shock load as bump is just touching
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/11/4.jpg

The car is set up as an everyday driver (its my work vehicle) and caravan tug / tourer.

[rick130]

Wow, you've changed the perspective quite a bit.......if you are correct Rick the question is how would you go about buying longer springs of a +/- 220lbs/inch rate in Australia (or the UK or the US)? Can you buy them off-the -shelf or do you need to have them made just for you?

MANY thanks
Cheers,
Stgo

I used to get springs wound to my specs, any spring maker will do that but the 220lb/in-17" ones are off the shelf from LRA here in Oz (made by Browns Springs)

Look around, maybe ask some people who race cars who and where they buy their springs as you'll be able to get some wound to the free length you want.

Santiago, what springs do you have ATM ?
Can you work out the paint splashes ?

[bitdist]

I used to get springs wound to my specs, any spring maker will do that but the 220lb/in-17" ones are off the shelf from LRA here in Oz (made by Browns Springs)

Look around, maybe ask some people who race cars who and where they buy their springs as you'll be able to get some wound to the free length you want.

Santiago, what springs do you have ATM ?
Can you work out the paint splashes ?

Browns springs is where I go !

[SG1]

I just got rear springs made at one of our local spring makers. I just tell him what I want and he makes them! Cheaper than the normal after market suppliers as well and you can get exactly what you want which is great.

I am just about to go and see him again to make another set of front springs for me.

Do you have any local spring makers over there ??

Yes, we have a company which makes springs for LR Defenders. I may check if there is a chance to have any done as per my specifications. The problem is it is the same company which builds the ones I have in the front now and I do not trust the quality of their steel since mine have sagged significantly in just 18 months despite they were supposed to be "Heavy Duty" (whatever that means) and despite the front of my D110 is not that heavy.

[SG1]

Goingbush,
I am a bit confused with your description: I am not sure whether you had D130 front springs only in the front of your D110 or whether you had D130 front springs + another set of springs within them (D130 rears?). Can you clarify this? If the latter is the case maybe the inner coils are to blame for your too stiff suspension setup?

Thanks
Stgo


Rick,
The front springs I have now are made by a local company. They produce front springs for the Defender in three configurations: standard, heavy duty and very heavy duty +/-, they do not provide much technical characteristics about them. I am not sure whether I have the heavy duty or very heavy duty ones on now but they are just 18 months old and considering my current winch/bumper setup is not very heavy I believe they should not have dropped as mucha s they have. i am dissapointed with them. Plus they provide a harsh ride compared to the original D110 springs.

Is there a chance anyone can provide me with the specifications (lenghts and rates) for all the genuine Land Rover springs (D90, D110 and D130)? I have read there is a table flying around but the links I have tried in this forum during the last couple of days have not worked. I will appreciate if anyone may perhaps send it by e-mail? (gigolas2001@yahoo.com)

I will keep on investigating my options.

Perhaps Old Man Emu Medium Duty rear Defender 90 spings will do?
The specs are: PS length: 16.93''; DS length: 16.54''; Rate: 220lbs/inch
Maybe a bit too high for the front of my D110? What do you think? slightly softer than genuine D130 front springs but longer?

I can easily get OME springs down here but Brown Springs will be tough to get.
Cheers,
Santiago

[SG1]

Me again....:confused:
Can anyone let me know where are King springs made and where they can be purchased? Anywhere in the UK or US perhaps? Any King springs spring spec chart around?
Sorry for so many questions.
Stgo

[goingbush]

Goingbush,
I am a bit confused with your description: I am not sure whether you had D130 front springs only in the front of your D110 or whether you had D130 front springs + another set of springs within them (D130 rears?). Can you clarify this? If the latter is the case maybe the inner coils are to blame for your too stiff suspension setup?

Thanks
Stgo


Cheers,
Santiago

When purchased my Defender had 130 Front springs .. in the front.
And it had rear 130 inner (helper) springs within the standard 110 rear springs, They will only fit inside rear springs on 110 & 130 models.

I do a lot of towing but still wanted good articulation, so I took the rear helpers out and put Polyair springs inside the 110 rear springs. Now I can pump them up for towing heavy loads or let the air out for good articulation.

When I took the 130 springs out of the front & replaced with standard 110 springs the front dropped about 2.5" , the king springs have bought it back level but still nice & supple - not a harsh ride like with the 130 fronts.

I got my King springs from an ebay seller, this listing

FRONT STANDARD KING SPRINGS FOR 92-01 ROVER LANDROVER DEFENDER 110 & TD5 KRFS-03 | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/FRONT-STANDARD-KING-SPRINGS-FOR-92-01-ROVER-LANDROVER-DEFENDER-110-TD5-KRFS-03-/170945937503?pt=AU_Car_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27cd2c005f&_uhb=1#ht_1530wt_1206)

The KRFS-03 are 14" free length & i believe they are 150 Lb/in , they are Australian made.

hope it helps some
cheers ..Don


.

[SG1]

Hi Don,
That was excellent, crystal clear.
Regards,
Stgo

[uninformed]

King Springs are made by King Springs in Molendinar, Queensland, Australia. See link

Contact Us (http://www.kingsprings.com.au/contact_us.htm)

[rick130]

Is there a chance anyone can provide me with the specifications (lenghts and rates) for all the genuine Land Rover springs (D90, D110 and D130)? I have read there is a table flying around but the links I have tried in this forum during the last couple of days have not worked. I will appreciate if anyone may perhaps send it by e-mail? (gigolas2001@yahoo.com)

[snip]


Unfortunately Red90's spring info page is no longer available, but I have it on the home PC so will post it up later.

[rick130]

Open the PDF below, it lists as much spring info as I've seen.

Spring info page courtesy of Red90, I made it a PDF so I could upload it here.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=50903&d=1347425684

[SG1]

Thanks for taking the time Rick. I appreciate it :).

Stgo

[SG1]

Sorry for being so repetitive with this issue but I have done my homework and taken some weight measurements of the front of my D110 and came up with the following.
My Defender has 51 kilos (+/-112lbs) of extra gear on the front (considering between the front axle and the front bumper) compared to what it had when it came out of factory. I have weighted each single piece of gear which I have added and came up with the 112lbs, a little bit more than I thought originally.

Anyways, given that I pretend to buy off-the shelf springs instead of having them custom-made the recent measurements have made me narrow down to two options:

a) genuine D130 front springs (nothing new hear, it is what I have been considering for some time, actually since I first read this thread)

b) OME 761 front springs. These are a bit longer and a bit softer (at least according to the theoretical rate that OME publishes). These are recommended as Medium Duty springs for the D110, to be used for extra weights UP TO 110lbs.

The specs comparison between both is as follows:

D130 springs: Rate: 225lbs/inch; Length: 15.31 (DS) and 14.80 (PS) inches

OME 761 springs: Rate: 200lbs/inch; Length: 15.75 (DS) and 15.35 (PS) inches.

The questions to any of you willing to give your opinion are:

a) which spring would you select and why based on my setup?
b) would the OME ones really be softer? Or having a lower rate does not guarantee this? I have heard that OME springs in general tend to be very stiff.
c) would the OME 761 articulate better given they are supposed to be "softer" (lower rate)?

I would go for the OME's IF they are actually softer and articulate better but not if that is at the expense of them sagging in two years time.

Hope I have not fed-up everybody with my particular spring "problem".


Saludos,
Stgo

[Xtreme]

Go for the D130's - they're a proven item, they'll do what you require and I'm sure, like many others, you'll be happy with them.

The possible difference in ride and articulation between the D130's and the OME's will be barely noticeable - unless you're like a friend of mine who claims he can notice the difference in handling of this D1 with a 2 psi change of pressure in the rear tyres. :angel: :D

[Bush65]

The pics below show what my spreadsheet reveals for 3 different front springs:

NRC 8044 – drivers side front in 110 Defender
NRC 9448 – drivers side front in heavy duty 110 and 130 Defender
220 lb/in 17.2” high spring as used by Rick130
The static ride heights were adjusted to achieve unladen and loaded spring loads of 470 kg and 540 kg. These loads were based on 110 front axle values for; kerb load with no accessories fitted, and maximum gross load, less about 60 kg per side for the weight of the axle and wheels.

The dynamic loads were calculated at one inch increments of spring displacement. The front axle of a 110 is on the rubber bump stop when the spring is compressed to a height of about 7.25” and the values of dynamic heights and loads are coloured red when this happens as the stiffness of the bump stop comes into play.

IMHO you only want to hit the bump stop on rare occasions.

[SG1]

Thank you John.
Would you interpret your results as indicating Rick's spring set up would be either too long or too stiff for a D110 (he has a D130 I understand) given that his bump stops almost never touch the axle under dynamic conditions?
Or otherwise that the D130 front springs woul be th best of the three options you evaluated for a D110?
Did you consider any extra weight on the front of "your" D110 for the simulation?
Cheers,
Stgo

[rick130]

[snip]

IMHO you only want to hit the bump stop on rare occasions.


I agree, in most normal situations hitting the bump stop means the spring rate = infinity which would normally mean total loss of control (effectively you are driving a go-kart)

I have to say that even though the spring pads are polished in my car, meaning that I'm using all the available travel a lot, the impact must be juuuust hitting as I really don't feel it (except when flying through one particular causeway) and there is about 20mm of bump stop compression before the rate will be damned near infinity.

[Bush65]

Thank you John.
Would you interpret your results as indicating Rick's spring set up would be either too long or too stiff for a D110 (he has a D130 I understand) given that his bump stops almost never touch the axle under dynamic conditions?
Or otherwise that the D130 front springs woul be th best of the three options you evaluated for a D110?
Did you consider any extra weight on the front of "your" D110 for the simulation?
Cheers,
Stgo
I don't know enough about your use or conditions.

Most of my experience is with rangies and discos, but over the years I have tried many springs. For my use I was happy to compromise on high speed highway handling for off road performance and found long soft springs best for me.

This convinced me to seek as much bump stop clearance as practical, with as low a spring rate as I could go without hitting the bump stops except on rare occasions. I kept the rear swaybar to help with on road performance.

The logical conclusion is air springs as these allow ride height and load capacity to be changed at will.

The spreadsheet results I posted considered two more or less extreme loads. It is vey easy to try other loads (or springs) if you want to nominate them.

BTW after my earlier post I realised that the stock 110 front springs are progressive rate. The rate I used is what I found published elsewhere, so the results I used will be affected by the different rate.

[Bush65]

Since learning that stock Defender 110 front springs (NRC 8044/5) are variable rate and the data I had wasn't valid, I replaced them in my spreadsheet with 2 other springs that should be suitable. Both of these are 180 lb/inch spring rate. Their free lengths are 16.5 and 17.2 inches respectively.

Compared to Defender 130 front springs (225 lb/in by 15.3 in) both of these will be more comfortable and flex better. The 180 lb/in by 16.5 in spring will sit at approximately the same height. The 180 lb/in by 17.2 in spring will sit approximately 0.7 inch heigher.

Les Richmond Automotive produce both these springs for Land Rovers, the 180 lb/in by 16.5 in spring is colour code Red, the 180 lb/in by 17.2 in spring is colour code Orange.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/932.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/933.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/934.jpg

[SG1]

Bush 65,

Excellent thank you.
The 180 lb/in by 16.5 in spring sounds like an attractive option. However I need to change mine ASAP and my only fast option is a 15.75 inch/200lbs/inch spring.

Any chance you can run a test considering a 15.75 inch long spring with a 200lbs/inch rate? It would give me an excellent idea of what to expect from the only spring that I can easily buy off the shelf (in Argentina) and which is softer than and slightly longer than the D130 springs.

Thanks
Stgo

[Bush65]

Bush 65,

Excellent thank you.
The 180 lb/in by 16.5 in spring sounds like an attractive option. However I need to change mine ASAP and my only fast option is a 15.75 inch/200lbs/inch spring.

Any chance you can run a test considering a 15.75 inch long spring with a 200lbs/inch rate? It would give me an excellent idea of what to expect from the only spring that I can easily buy off the shelf (in Argentina) and which is softer than and slightly longer than the D130 springs.

Thanks
Stgo
Done. I left the NRC 9448, 180lb/in x 16.5in and 180lb/in x 17.2in for reference to the 200lb/in x 15.75in spring.

The ride height of the 200lb/in x 15.75in and 180lb/in x 16.5in springs are very close for the range of loads I used. Naturally, the 200lb/in spring is firmer.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/12/909.jpg

[SG1]

Thank you Bush 65! You have been very generous.

I will install my brand new, relatively cheap (guess what brand......:angel:) springs and see how it goes. They are 200lbs/inch and actually 16.1 inches high (I measured them wrong the first time, sorry). I am taking this as a test. Not sure how it will work out.

Thanks for all the great help. I promise some pics of my 2.8TGV D110 once it is levelled!

Saludos
Santiago