ATF Group Buy?

[CaverD3]

Anyone in Sydney wanting to do a change or flush?

ZF have quoted me $242.52 for 20L so $27.13 per L.

If we order more we should be able to do better.

How may to litres to fill and how many for flush?

Also possibly we could get some steel replacement pans with the separate filter?

Could distribute at pub lunch?

See: http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic51241.html

[trobbo]

I have the receipt in my car from when I had a double flush done on my transmission at a reputable workshop recently, and will check tonight to see how much fluid was used.

I had the pan replaced with the transmission service. About a week later I found a large puddle of unobtanium oil under my car. Took it back and had the pan pulled, a new seal fitted, and a third fill of oil completed with no questions asked by the workshop. Not sure if a leaking pan seal is common.

On inspection they said they could not find any cause for the leak. The bolts on the pan were tight and the seal had not been pinched, however when they loaded the transmission up they could see the oil leak.

Trusting they told me the truth about the cause of the leak, then even if they charged me a couple of dollars extra per litre of oil, with the failure of the seal, I came out on top cost wise getting the workshop to do it.

[CaverD3]

Was that the OEM pan, the steel pan or the falcon alloy pan?

[sniegy]

Caver,
Factory Pan is plastic & contains the filter as a 1 piece unit.

A&B Auto's distribute a different unit, It is a Steel pan & has a seperate filter.

Last week i replaced a filter with a factory unit at work on a vehicle we were working on.
It is not easy to replace the filter as the factory unit is a pain to remove, I had to remove the cross brace, remove engine mount, lift engine & support transfer case so as to remove filter. We replaced it with another "fatory unit" which incorporates the filter.
Problem being is that the tube that goes into the clutch pack goes up a fair distance. So there is little room.

I am yet to see the steel pan , seperate filter version (so if anyone has a photo, could you post it up for all to see) as this may be easier long term when changing just the filter as the pan may be removable.

Cheers.

[CaverD3]

OEM is a pain to change as you say.
A&B just snap off the OEM filter when removing the pan and throw it away they then fit the steel pan and separate filter. N need to unbilt the cross member.:D
Kit is $385 andd I think it includes enough oil for a fill.

[trobbo]

From my service receipt

Transmission Kit - $372
12 litres ATF - $420 ($35 per litre)

[CaverD3]

OEM kit or A&B?
I assume OEM oil?

[TDV6]

When I had mine done they also replaced the twenty-one torx screws, I don't know if this was because the steel pan is thinner than the oem plastic pan and the screws would then have been too long, but a few washers should have fixed that.

my costs were :-
Steel Pan ZF-6HP26 (replaces plastic pan and filter) $234.08.
Filter 6HP26 for steel pan A/M (I presume this is After Market from A&B Transmissions $32.32
Pan Gasket ZF-6HP26 (Steel Pan) $12.45
Bolts ZF-6HP26 (used with Steel Pan) 21 of totalling $72.77
ZF-6HP26 Genuine Transmission Fluid (5 litres) $371.40
Total Labour $187.00

Ryall

[Neil P]

I just can't get my head around the price of this oil :eek2:

[trobbo]

Mine was the A&B kit including the filter, gasket etc & OEM oil

[scarry]

I just can't get my head around the price of this oil :eek2:

Didn't you know it's got liquid gold mixed in it for some reason?,anyone know why


I think i will have the D2 for a while yet.....

Sorry guys,couldn't help myself:p:p:)

[CaverD3]

New six speed from ZF needed new oil which they had specially made for it. So Very expensive to begin with and with LR and dealer profit on top makes it obscene.
New manufaturures are starting to make ATF to same standard now so it is getting cheaper.
I am just trying to get the price down as much as possible.

[tempestv8]

ZF are not the only people specifying "lifetime" fluids that are priced like liquid gold....

Toyota's auto gearboxes (Aisin?) in the Prados and Cruisers are also now "sealed for life", and I don't for one minute believe it either.... and they also require special, expensive fluid.

A flush every 3 years would be a good idea, if one plans to keep the vehicle for the long run.

This idea of a group buy is a great initiative! :)

[discojools]

I had my ATF changed after my Simpson trip last year. The gearbox was vibrating especially in 3rd gear. Pan and filter was changed and oil changed twice.. Bill for (billed as SIN ATF) oil was $62 ($12/litre) and pan/filter was $188. I have a feeling they only charged me for one flush bit even so it's half the price that you guys are saying. Gearbox was smooth after the change but have just come back from Vic/SA border fence (lots of sand and a few dunes) and am getting occasional vibration from gearbox. Will get a double flush at next service. Maybe the price difference and reoccurrence of problem is cause they didn't use the right ATF previously.
Anybody had the steel pan and filter fitted and if so any probs with that?

Maybe a little off topic but both D3s on the border fence trip suffered from flashing EPB light, same as on Simpson trip. Only seems to happen when there is allot of sand or dust. Nearly always fixed by turning EPB on and then off. Any thoughts?

[tempestv8]

Hmm, I'm not sure how fresh fluid would fix a vibration, but I do know someone with a D3 who had his transmission replaced after it started to exhibit symptoms of vibrations...

[Neil P]

.....(billed as SIN ATF) oil was $62 ($12/litre) .....

Now I find this MOST interesting because you obviously have
not been supplied with "flash ZF oil" at this price. When Norto
refilled his trans last year and used an inappropriate oil , the
ZF control module failed ( ZF said the wrong oil type causes
this to happen quite quickly ) within a few weeks , but you're
still going strong ........

[CaverD3]

Penrite think their oil is OK::

An advanced formula synthetic, this ultimate multi-vehicle ATFcan be used for automatics in GM (Holden) vehicles as well as in many American, Japanese and European models. Highly recommended for frequent towing and in heavy-duty transmissions. Suitable for service fill of Mercedes 5 and 7 speed autos, ZF 4, 5 and 6 speed autos.
MERCON®V (Ford M2C202B), GM DEXRON®-IIIH, Allison C-4/TES-295, Chrysler MS 9602 (ATF+4®), ZF TE-ML14B/C, JASO 1A

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/SIN%20ATF.pdf

Penrite SIN ATF is recommended for use in a wide
variety of transmissions where performance better than
standard fluids is required. Applications include the
service fill and top up of automatic transmissions of most
vehicles on the market as well as power steering
systems, and manual transmissions where DEXRON
-
II/III type fluids are specified. While SIN ATF has a
conventional ATF viscosity, it can be used successfully in
many transmissions that require the new type of lower
viscosity fluids.
That last bit is a worry

EUROPEAN PERFORMANCE: ZF 4, 5 and 6 speed
autos, Mercedes 4, 5 and 7 speed autos, Aisin Warner
FWD autos such as used in Holden, Volvo, SAAB, VW,
Audi, BMW, Voith and others so is a one stop shop for
all European cars.
They seem to think it works for everything, but I can't see Land Rover in the list:

EUROPEAN PERFORMANCE: ZF 4, 5 and 6
speed autos, Mercedes 4, 5 and 7 speed autos,
Aisin Warner FWD autos such as used in Holden,
Volvo, SAAB, VW, Audi, BMW and others so is a one
stop shop for all European cars with conventional
“step-type” transmissions. It may be used where
the below manufacturer part numbers are quoted:
AUDI/VW G052162A BMW 8322 9407807
BMW 8322 9407765 JAGUAR JLM 20238
ROLLS ROYCE PL 31493PA PORSCHE 999.917.547.00
FORD PN 52990 (Europe)
MERCEDES 001 989 2103 (MB 236.10),
MERCEDES 001 989 2203 (MB 236.11)
CITROEN Z 00169756/PR 9376.22
PEUGEOT Z

But I don't think it meets the industry standard for The ZF boxes in the D3/4:

Penrite SIN ATF meets or exceeds the performance
requirements of:
GM DEXRON
-IIIH Ford
MERCON
-V/SP
ZF TE-ML-14C Toyota T-IV/WS
HONDA ATF Z1 JASO 1A
CHRYSLER MB 236.10/11/12
MITSUBISHI MM-SP 3 MB NAG-1 and NAG-2
ALLISON TES-389/295/C4 VOITH 55.6335.3X (G607)
MAN 339 V1/Z1/Z2 MB 236.3/5/7/9
NISSANMATIC C/D/J/K MAZDA M-V
Density at 15oC 0.854
Viscosity, Kinematic, cS
at 40oC 38
at 100 oC 8.3
Viscosity Index 178
Colour Natural
Brookfield Viscosity, cP
at -40 oC 12,000
Pour Point, oC -45
Environment, Health

discojools, yes I would be flushing and changing it again, this time use the correct oil. The viscosity is wrong at the very least with the penrite SIN ATF. You could make a claim against the mob who put the wrong oil in?

[norto]

I used the SIN ATF and when the tranny was rebuilt the tech said that it had cost him $7000 to rebuild a ZF box that he had used a non ZF oil in.

[CaverD3]

discojools

I would change it PDQ.:o


I used the SIN ATF and when the tranny was rebuilt the tech said that it had cost him $7000 to rebuild a ZF box that he had used a non ZF oil in.

[discojools]

Will get a double flush using Landrover supplied oil even the the transmission expert says that the SIN ATF is exactly the same. Will make me feel a bit better about it.. Also having steel pan fitted too. Transmission expert says that vibration will keep coming back so will have to change oil more often.

[CaverD3]

You could get the stuff from ZF Australia, would be cheape especially with a double flush.
Agree don't use SIN ATF it has wrong viscosity. One from ZF is designed for the transmission.

[discojools]

Just to put things right, the transmission expert (AMB I think) said that Penrite SIN was exactly the same as the LR supplied ATF and that it wasn't a problem using it. I am just covering myself by using the LR Stuff which I assume is Shell ATF M1375.4 as listed in the handbook.

[CaverD3]

Given what happened to Norto and given what Penritre says: "While SIN ATF has a conventional ATF viscosity, it can be used successfully in many transmissions that require the new type of lower viscosity fluids."They say nothing about Land Rover in their speil.

You could regret listening to them.
tech said that it had cost him $7000 to rebuild a ZF box that he had used a non ZF oil in.

[discojools]

True, but I will be swapping over to Shell soon! Maybe that will put off the inevitable for a while anyway. The specialist tranny man who said the SIN was ok was from the company you mentioned earlier.

[Tombie]

Ever thought to just contact Penrite?
If they put it in writing then you have pretty good assurances it will be ok.

[discojools]

As Caver says Penrite don't mention Landrover in there spec for that SIN ATF oil.. I might check with them anyway. Good idea!

[CaverD3]

ZF or A&B?


A&B use ZF suplied ATF so I can't se why they would say it was ok. :confused:

[discojools]

A&B.. Just sent email to Penrite for more info.

[Tombie]

As Caver says Penrite don't mention Landrover in there spec for that SIN ATF oil.. I might check with them anyway. Good idea!

They don't mention my motorcycle on the Sin 10 engine oil either, but a chat to their tech guy and he confirmed in writing it's suitability.
Now it's in my bike and going strong!

[CaverD3]

The ZF box in the D3 is a very different auto. What worries me is the different viscosity. There is well documented evidence that it needs at least an oil change if not a flush at 80-100,00km depending on use and it is important to use the right oil.
Norto's D3 was filled with the wrong oil (SIN ATF) and it failed and had to be rebuilt at a cost of $7,000.
Filling a D3 auto with anything but the correct spec oil is taking a huge risk.
If you get it in writing and it fails they can still say it was not the oil that caused it, it would then be up to you to prove it or take the hit.

[Verydisco]

G'day

Would anyone have the reference for the replacement ZF sump + filter please ?

Does the metal one come with the vertical tube like the plastic one or is this tube coming with the filter, making it all much simple to fit (read no need to left the engine ! :eek:)

Cheers

[Neil P]

Many who have undertaken a replacement pan , report that the filter
had no contamination , and why would it ? There's no combustion
in the system and it has magnets for ferrics .........
What about the oil only , rather than that expense / leakage problem.......

[CaverD3]

New pan comes with a separate filter, OEM is in-built.
The problem seems to be the breakdown of the oil not contamination.
You could just do a flush I suppose, a megaflush would be better but uses na lot of oil.

[clubagreenie]

This seems a vastly inflated price for oil. Using the 6HP's in falcon XR's modified for post turbo upgrade, we only fill with penrite and have no problems. Also consider using Redline if you still want to pay for it.

[Sprint]

is this stuff a DEXRON 6 spec ATF????

[tempestv8]

No idea what this fluid is, but from past experience, it's best not to deviate from manufacturer's specifications.

The trick is to try and obtain the EXACT stuff for less money. For example the ESSO lifetime fluid purchased from an Audi dealer (same ZF gearbox) is cheaper than from a Land Rover dealer, the last time I looked into this, which was a while ago.

Since Ford also use the ZF gearbox, perhaps it may be cheaper still, getting it from a Ford dealer. Best to shop around, but not to deviate from the specification.

As Castrol put it correctly, "oils aint oils". ;)

[clubagreenie]

Oil selection isn't necessarily about what's best for the box, but whats best for the application.

I'll assume knowledge about viscosity and it's variation at temperature.

Dex 3 is a common fluid in everyday cars and as such need to be reliable in longevity, easy on the box i terms of shift hardness and cope with a variety of driving conditions and styles. It will maintain it's Cst rating (centistoke, measurement of viscosity) across a moderate range of temps. Dex 3 viscosity should be:

Vis @ 100°C, cSt 7.5 Vis @ 40°C, cSt 34

A harder fluid llike redlline racing atf has viscosity as below.
Vis @ 100°C 4.9 Vis @ 40°C 23.2
This will provide much firmer surer shifts, especially when combined with other mods that will be done to boxes used for this application. However, a std 4HP with a firmer shifting oil would provide for better driving in conditions such as sand and mud where you don't want the box to lag while selecting gears and possibly loosing momentum.

Tempest is correct, oils aint oils, as castrol isnt castrol any more.

[CaverD3]

Incorrect ATF in the D3 however causes failure of the internal control unit. This in turn causes the physical failure.

[clubagreenie]

When you say internal Cont unit, is the computer in the pan? like a 6HP? or is it a 6Hp, forgive the ignorance but my champagne taste only extends to a D2 budget

[CaverD3]

There is a control unit in the pan, you can see th ECB when you take the pan off.

[clubagreenie]

So how does incorrect fluid cause failure of sealed electrical unit?

[CaverD3]

Not sure why but I suspect the breakdown of ATF affects the unit.

Experience has shown that some ATFs cause failures. Not arisk I would take with the box.

[clubagreenie]

I only ask because there's a few dozen at least 6HP's running very hard on different fluids. Though they are full synthetics so that may be another difference?

[jdea]

Looks like Penrite have bailed on the Discovery 3... They no longer seem to support ZF 6 Autos or Diffs with there SIN products......

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/pis_pdfs/SIN%20ATF%20SEPT2010.pdf


:mad:

[CaverD3]

Penrite have never met the spec for the ZF6. ZF have been telling them it is not suitable for ages.

[robertj]

Sounds like I may need to have mine changed, I have only done 40K but its now approaching 3YO with a reasonable amount of that towing a horse float. Can anyone suggest where to get the pan and flush done in Brisbane?
Cheers

[Rockylizard]

Sounds like I may need to have mine changed, I have only done 40K but its now approaching 3YO with a reasonable amount of that towing a horse float. Can anyone suggest where to get the pan and flush done in Brisbane?
Cheers
Gday...
I just had an ATF flush and change, with replacement to steel pan and filter at Southern Cross Toowoomba. D3 had done 82,000km, towing van full time for last 5,000km, and while no problems with auto, thought it very good insurance.
The Service Manager there, Thomas, and I negotiated an ATF price of $45.litre which was better than their original quoted $100/litre.
I had referred them to the dealer in Vic I had bought the D3 from who charge $30/litre for ATF, from ZF in Melbourne I think.
Southern Cross Toowoomba then discussed with their LR approved Automatic Transmission warranty service centre (I think in Brisbane) to provide the ATF at a much reduced price - and LR honour their warranty using that ATF. So it saved me mucking around sourcing direct through ZF in Sydney and having them courier it to Toowoomba for me. (We are travellling full time with a van so it was very helpful to not have to source myself - and have excess to find a place for in the vehicle or van)
They also did a service, including my noisy EPB, and I thoroughly recommend them for service and attention.
The EPB has not made a single untoward noise since that service and after nearly 1800km. **fingers and toes crossed**
Hope this helps.

Cheers
John

[robertj]

Thanks John for the info, I actually purchased my D3 from them and was also very pleased with their sales team etc. But as I live in Brisbane I have not had to use their service division though it might be worth a trip!
Cheers
Rob

[steven64]

Gday...
I just had an ATF flush and change, with replacement to steel pan and filter at Southern Cross Toowoomba. D3 had done 82,000km, towing van full time for last 5,000km, and while no problems with auto, thought it very good insurance.
The Service Manager there, Thomas, and I negotiated an ATF price of $45.litre which was better than their original quoted $100/litre.
I had referred them to the dealer in Vic I had bought the D3 from who charge $30/litre for ATF, from ZF in Melbourne I think.
Southern Cross Toowoomba then discussed with their LR approved Automatic Transmission warranty service centre (I think in Brisbane) to provide the ATF at a much reduced price - and LR honour their warranty using that ATF. So it saved me mucking around sourcing direct through ZF in Sydney and having them courier it to Toowoomba for me. (We are travellling full time with a van so it was very helpful to not have to source myself - and have excess to find a place for in the vehicle or van)
They also did a service, including my noisy EPB, and I thoroughly recommend them for service and attention.
The EPB has not made a single untoward noise since that service and after nearly 1800km. **fingers and toes crossed**
Hope this helps.

Cheers
John
Hi john how much did they charge? .. I live in Townsville and I am having trouble finding some one to do the service of changing the ATF i don't want to go to the landrove dealers
cheers Steven

[CaverD3]

When you have the flush done I would suggest having the ATF tested for water contamination.
There have been a couple with Auto trans problems where the radiator fluid had leaked into the ATF.
Quite cheap and good insurance.

[Rockylizard]

Gday...

The cost for the Trans Oil Change, Flush & fit & supply trans service kit (steel pan and filter) was $1.046.27.

Oil & Service Kit was sourced from A&B Transmissions I believe.

The car is going really well. I know it is always psychological but even though the trans was performing faultlessly before the change & flush, it seems to be much smoother since having it done.

And the EPB remains silent still after 3000km and about 6 weeks since service. Keeping fingers crossed:angel:.

Hope that helps.

Cheers
John

[Normthe1]

Having read everything below, it got me to thinking.

If the gooders ATF is so expensive, and the general opinion is to get the double flush, then why not flush with the cheap stuff, then fill with the good stuff?

Surely the little remnant of the cheap and nasty would be overwhelmed and you would be considerably better off in the back pocket???


Thoughts???


Norm

[CaverD3]

Not worth the risk really.
ZF stuff is not too expensive.

[NomadicD3]

Hey Caver
Did you ever get the group buy happening? If so what price did the ATF end up at?

[CaverD3]

Just got a notificaton that NomadicD3 wrote this:

Hey caver,
I've been looking into this extensively over the past few days and was told by a rover w'shop they use penrite syn ATF @$15/ltr. Ever heard of anyone using this or has anyone ever used this?? The other quote for the service,flush and steel AnB pan change kit was $1800. I know i have to get this done soon but $1800 seems a little steep {but i guess it is Perth:D}
thanks

Dunno what happened? :confused: but not the thread? :confused:

[clubagreenie]

I'm using sin ATF in my newly built D2. The Auto man recommended it, spoke to ZF and they said it was fine, obviously not sure about the others. Tought it was steep but seems I got off lightly.

[NomadicD3]

Yea Sorry about that Caver, posted it then changed it , realised i was wasting your time:cool:, i just had to do more reading from this thread, am still interested in the group buy outcome.
thanks

[CaverD3]

I take it you know not to us Sin ATF then?

Not enough folks wanted to do the group buy but went halves with Jonesey for the steel pans and 20L of lifeguard 6 direct from ZF

$1292.74 in total incl GST


20L Lifeguard6 $280.24 (excl GST)
Steel pans (each) $297.49 (excl GST)

[jonesy63]

... and that was done at a LR dealer too.

Thanks Caver!

For the record, my auto has been running really well since the double flush. No more vibrations and fast, smooth changes. I have done about 12,500km on it since the change - including the trip from Sydney-Bourke-Broken Hill- Arkaroola-Marree-Oodnadatta-Uluru-Hermansburg-Alice Springs-Darwin-Mt Isa-Longreach-Moree-Grafton-Sydney (11,688km in 17 days!).

And Norm - the reason you can't double flush with a cheaper oil - is that not all the trans oil comes out when you drain it! Some stays inside the torque converter. This is why the "megaflush" (not offered anywhere in Australia afaik) is a better option than the double flush.

Cheers,
Rob

[CaverD3]

For the record mine has been smooth and no harsh changes since it was reolaced with a reconditioned one. :angel:

[NomadicD3]

H Caver, Yep got the message loud and clear:D:D thanks to all the information in this thread. Will definitely be using only genuine ATF. Just got to find someone who will do it for a reasonable price{ no easy feat in Perth LOL}.
Kinda tricky how you got the post that i deleted/changed LOL.Since you did i'll share a funny with you. The guy who quoted $1800 for a double flush and pan change etc, told me the oil was $50/ltr and he used 20 ltrs which by my reckoning = $1000 right!!!? However if i supply the oil it would still cost $1400????? I think you can see where i'm going with this ;););).
Anyway thanks for all the excellent advice in your posts Caver and others who had good info to add to this thread
Cheers all
Nomad

[CaverD3]

You can get smaller cans of ZF ATF (you need 10L to do the double flush) but if you can get someone to go halves it would be better and save on freight.
Change over is easy you just undo the pan cut the pipe and put in the steel pan with filter.

[Bushwanderer]

Sorry guys (Off topic),
It's apparent that the plastic sump pan/filter has a pipe that extends upwards, making the sump pan a pain to remove. What is the function of this pipe and why isn't it necessary with the steel pan?

Best Wishes,
Peter

[CaverD3]

The pipe is the oil flow pipe, so important but the steel pan has a separate filter with the pipe on it. To egt the plastic pan with integrated filter off you either need to loosen the cross member and loosen an engine mount or )as dealers now do) undo the valve body of the transmission or just cut it off and replace.
With the steel pan you just remove the pan then take out the separate filter.

[zack196]

Have kit from A&B. Question- not 100% sure on final fluid level[assume top up turn over a few times]
Question 2 Would draining cooler tank and lines help in changing more fluid?

Any one know of a link to a very detailed procedure relating to this subject?

Castrol Nth America have a "multi import fluid" aproved by ZF -ANYONE HEARD OF THIS IN OZ Regards Zack.

[kingo]

Hi all, sort of on the same topic. I've just booked my D3 into Ritters in Melb for a service and auto pan and fluid changeover, as it's just done over 100000kms, have been quoted $1165 just for the auto service, including steel pan and fluid and was quite surprised by the cost. Thought people were talking $700-$800 for the full auto job.

Any thoughts please?

Cheers

Andrew

[Owl]

Hi all, sort of on the same topic. I've just booked my D3 into Ritters in Melb for a service and auto pan and fluid changeover, as it's just done over 100000kms, have been quoted $1165 just for the auto service, including steel pan and fluid and was quite surprised by the cost. Thought people were talking $700-$800 for the full auto job.

Any thoughts please?

Cheers

Andrew


I've just been through this as well. You're paying ~$300 for the steel pan - so next time you do this you pay that much less.

Ian

[NomadicD3]

Hi all, sort of on the same topic. I've just booked my D3 into Ritters in Melb for a service and auto pan and fluid changeover, as it's just done over 100000kms, have been quoted $1165 just for the auto service, including steel pan and fluid and was quite surprised by the cost. Thought people were talking $700-$800 for the full auto job.

Any thoughts please?

Cheers

Andrew

Hi Kingo,
Yes you can get a flush and pan change done for less than $1000 but probably not at a landrover dealer:)!! I hunted for a few days and finally am getting someone to do it for me for about $800 a huge improvement on the initial $1800 i was quoted and all this in Perth where everything seems about 10-20% dearer than eastern states. The ZF oil will cost somewhere between $30-$35 and as carver says you require about 10 ltrs, pan about $350-$400 and 2-3 hrs labour depending on whos doing it LOL{ i was quoted 6-7hrs originally}.
happy servicing
ND3

[Preacher]

Hi all
Confused on the acronym 'EPB'
I have an 05 TDV6 when I bought it at around 100000k it had a slight whirry/fuzzy sound that you could get rid off with a slight change of go pedal - its not better or worse at any speed. Took it to the dealer who said it sounded like the torque converter and for $2,500.00 would pull it out and send it to a tranny specialst. Declined the offer but now 10000 hence its getting much louder and seeing I'm about to do a fair bit of offroad towing deceided I need to get it looked at.
Is this the sort of noise vibration that discojools talks about below.

discojools sais Will make me feel a bit better about it.. Also having steel pan fitted too. Transmission expert says that vibration will keep coming back so will have to change oil more often.

sniegy - seems to suggest an aftermarket steel pan and filter may be the go

NeilP seems to think maybe only the oil needs doing

Rocklizard sais They also did a service, including my noisy EPB, and I thoroughly recommend them for service and attention.
The EPB has not made a single untoward noise since that service and after nearly 1800km. **fingers and toes crossed**
Hope this helps.

sniegy sais Last week i replaced a filter with a factory unit at work on a vehicle we were working on.
It is not easy to replace the filter as the factory unit is a pain to remove, I had to remove the cross brace, remove engine mount, lift engine & support transfer case so as to remove filter. We replaced it with another "fatory unit" which incorporates the filter.
Problem being is that the tube that goes into the clutch pack goes up a fair distance. So there is little room.
I am yet to see the steel pan , seperate filter version (so if anyone has a photo, could you post it up for all to see) as this may be easier long term when changing just the filter as the pan may be removable.

CaverD3 sais OEM is a pain to change as you say.
A&B just snap off the OEM filter when removing the pan and throw it away they then fit the steel pan and separate filter. N need to unbilt the cross member.:D
Kit is $385 andd I think it includes enough oil for a fill.
Factory Pan is plastic & contains the filter as a 1 piece unit.
A&B Auto's distribute a different unit, It is a Steel pan & has a seperate filter.

any feed back would be really appreciated

dj

[sniegy]

EPB = Electronic Park Brake.

Re: the Auto-Go the steel pan & seperate filter, it just makes the changes at a late reasier to do.

Cheers;)

[Ean Austral]

I am not due for a trans oil change yet but will likely do it at 80,000, but am interested why to flush the system you have to use the ZF trans oil.

I have no idea yet on how the flush is done, but I assume its to remove any build up left behind, so why cant you flush it with a standard trans oil or even a synthetic motor oil..

Just interested in people's thoughts..

Cheers Ean

[NomadicD3]

Hi Ean,
This has been a hotly debated point for quite sometime and the general consensus seems to be that given that there is a considerable amount of oil left in the torque convertor etc and how sensitive the the ZF gearbox is to various oils , ie; some oils create unwanted slippage and some may actually cause damage {refer caverd3 about this for more info}, it is far safer with these auto boxes to just use genuine oils for the entire task.
Personally i didn't do the flush just a genuine oil change at 100k and will do another at 120 when the next major is due.

[Ean Austral]

Thanks for that, im curious that if the issue is that the box seems to cause a range of issues, and it seems to cure after a flush, then why not change the oil every 60,000 or even 50,000.

I know the oil seems expensive, but if you dont need to flush the system then you only use about half as much( from how I read things)..

I guess I will find out whats involved when I do a change, but the problem seems to me that 100,000 plus between changes seems to long and whether its the filter getting clogged due to this would be interesting to find out..

I have a ZF gearbox in our trawler, might get onto them and see what they say.. (talk to the service guys instead of the sales guys to get their opinion)

Cheers Ean

[NomadicD3]

HI Ean, CORRECT!!!! 100000k's is to long, my auto was starting to show signs of slippage and 80000k's is probably a good time to change/service. Have you read the post regarding changing to an A&B steel pan which will make future changes easier? If not do a search as there is alot of info on this topic IE; auto's, there inherant problems and the advantages of the steel pan change due to the filter access.
cheers
P.S your logic is irrefutible on every level, changing earlier will save money in the long run :-)
Talk to ZF authorised dealers as they, generally} know what their on about. {At least from my personal experience}

[Ean Austral]

HI Ean, CORRECT!!!! 100000k's is to long, my auto was starting to show signs of slippage and 80000k's is probably a good time to change/service. Have you read the post regarding changing to an A&B steel pan which will make future changes easier? If not do a search as there is alot of info on this topic IE; auto's, there inherant problems and the advantages of the steel pan change due to the filter access.
cheers

Yes I have read about it, I have the CD manual now so will look abit more into it and can atleast comprehend what im reading..I will likely change mine at between 70-80,000 which was what the guys at TRS told me when we bought it.

Will do some more reading and see if someone has recommended where to get the steel pan from..

Cheers Ean

[~Rich~]

My mechanic just ordered one from Ford!

[Ean Austral]

My mechanic just ordered one from Ford!


Ordered 1 what !

Cheers Ean

[oldsalt]

Ordered 1 what !

Cheers Ean

A steel pan for the auto box ....

[~Rich~]

Yeah the pan is from Ford, same one fits the Falcon XR6 Turbo as it is the same ZF gearbox.
My mechanic was misled by a Oil distributor rep and filled my box with a non approved oil, got it swapped once we found out the truth!


Oil which I was not charged a second time for was $45 ltr - 7.3 required.
Steel pan - ZF 6HP26 - $179.85
Filter - $61.52
Gasket - $28.67
Torx screws - $62.37 (21 x $2.97)
Freight - $15.00
Total parts excl oil,labour $364.21
Next time I won't have to buy the Pan of course.
Ayers are now recommending changing oil every 50 / 60,000ks.

[vbrab]

Dear Caverd3, how do you get to buy direct from ZF? the price for 20 litres looks better than the $640 plus GST I was quoted as a"good" price locally, I'd be happy to get a pan kit and 20 litres at near the rates you suggest.
Let me know, regards, vbrab

[jonesy63]

how do you get to buy direct from ZF?

Ring ZF? Or seeing you are in the wild west, maybe send a dispatch via Cobb & Co! :wasntme:

[KOOS BEST]

Jaguar XK8 Transmission Fluid/Pan Change - YouTube

If you look at this video , changing the oil on the same gearbox in a XK 8 Jaguar , this guy uses a Mercron SP oil. And according to the comments you read it;'s a higher spec than ZF.
Any comments ?

[jonesy63]

how do you get to buy direct from ZF? the price for 20 litres looks better than the $640 plus GST I was quoted as a"good" price locally, I'd be happy to get a pan kit and 20 litres at near the rates you suggest.
vbrab,
It looks like caver left the typo in the very first post in this thread - it was actually $542 for the 20L (hence $27+ per litre -which is correct).

Caver and I ended up the only two on that group buy! ZF make the metal sump, provide the sump bolts, gasket, filter and the oil - everything! My thinking was that as they make the gearbox and provide it to Land Rover, I feel this is a safer option than using an independent for parts. This was especially true as my D3 was still in warranty at that time.

Take a look at the original group buy post:

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - ATF Group Buy? (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic51270.html?highlight=%2Bgroup+%2Bbuy+%2BZF)

Cheers,
Rob

[jonesy63]

... this guy uses a Mercron SP oil. And according to the comments you read it;'s a higher spec than ZF.
Any comments ?
Mercon SP is not available in Australia.

Ford now appear to be moving to the 6R80 auto gearbox - which is based on the ZF 6HP26 and built by Ford. (from what I've read, the "80" suffix shows how much torque it will handle). Ford 6R transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

If your auto gearbox fails while still under warranty - and it doesn't have the equivalent to ZF Lifeguard Fluid 6... good luck!

[KOOS BEST]

What I have now learned from ZF South Africa is that the LIFEGUARD 6 oil is made by SHELL.They decant from SHELL drums into their bottles here in SA.
It is called M-1375.4
It sells in GB fro 900.00 sterling per 210 lt drum, that works out dead cheap.

I am trying to source it here locally in 20 lt drums.

The label on this oil reads as follows.

Applications
• Exclusively approved for ZF automatic transmissions used in passenger cars
This product is exclusively approved as initial and service fill grade for the latest 6 speed automatic transmissions from ZF (6HP26) used in BMW, Jaguar.. cars.
Performance Features and Benefits
• Outstanding friction retention
• Smooth gear shifting due to appropriate friction coefficient over time
• Vibration (Shudder) free operation at all driving conditions
• High fuel saving potential
• Wear protection
• Excellent thermal and oxidative stability
• Low temperature fluidity
• Excellent Shear stability

• Filled for life potential in ZF automatic transmissions
• Outstanding production quality control system in place to ensure consistent product quality
Specification and Approvals
ZF TE-ML 11

Manufacturer's Pt. No. 550014653

[CaverD3]

This Ford owner had the same problen with Penrite. ZF said they ad told Penrite it did not meet the specs and eventually they withdrew the ZF from their spec sheet.

Australian Ford Forums - ZF Problem - Be Warned!!! (http://www.fordforums.com.au/printthread.php't=11304328&pp=50)