Air Filter on D4 TDV3.0 HSE?

[RoverLander]

Hi all,

I'm sure this is a dumb question.. but here goes.

I'm the proud owner of a 1 week old D4 TDV3.0 HSI. I've searched this and the UK forum, read the owners manual and service manual (several times) and no mention of cleaning the air filter. I'm about to do a dusty outback trip and want to know how I clean it out... or have Land Rover engineers managed to create a maintenance free air filter? :confused:

Peter

[Neil P]

Bang it on the ground and put it back in .......... and buy a spare
incase the dust is too fine .

[RoverLander]

Thanks for the detailed answer Neil!... I think I may have done as you suggested several times in my trusty 100 Series and it was obvious how to go about it. Hell it even has a dust collector so you didn't have to pull the whole thing apart everyday.

Have you had a look under the bonnet of a 3.0TDV6? All I see is a large air box with hoses all over it. Yes I'll probably just work it out myself.

[Neil P]

Unscrew the case and lift it . It's not like my LC100 either ;)
There's very little "play" in these LR cases , so if your loom has
no-give , then you'll need to disconnect a plug too. You can't
cause mayhem in there. Don't panic.

[eddomak]

OK, since we're on the topic of Air Filters, I have a question that I did a quick search for on Disco 3 and here. Is there a concensus on K&N Air Filters?

From what I've read on the forums, they may not be as effective in keeping fine dust out, so may not be good for vehicles constantly off road?

I have always changed my air filters in my previous cars over to K&N because I do actually feel the miniscule power increase, the engine seems to rev easier, and there is a nice induction noise as well. I haven't been on extended offroad trips in the past, so haven't been too worried about too much extra dust getting through.

[isuzurover]

OK, since we're on the topic of Air Filters, I have a question that I did a quick search for on Disco 3 and here. Is there a concensus on K&N Air Filters?

From what I've read on the forums, they may not be as effective in keeping fine dust out, so may not be good for vehicles constantly off road?

I have always changed my air filters in my previous cars over to K&N because I do actually feel the miniscule power increase, the engine seems to rev easier, and there is a nice induction noise as well. I haven't been on extended offroad trips in the past, so haven't been too worried about too much extra dust getting through.

As with any vehicle, If you are willing to reduce engine life in exchange for a "miniscule power increase" (and or placebo effect) and a "nice induction noise", then go right ahead. It may also void your engine warranty???

Roverlander, it is better not to clean your filter unless absolutely necessary. The extra dust actually aids filtration.

[eddomak]

As with any vehicle, If you are willing to reduce engine life in exchange for a "miniscule power increase" (and or placebo effect)

Horses for courses, I guess. Some of my previous cars were quite underpowered, and every KW counts. And it definitely wasn't so minor as to be a placebo effect.

Thanks for the experience from the offroad perspective though.

[Disco4SE]

Hi eddomak, I too have used the K&N filters before and believe that they do aid in air flow. After all, your vehicle relys on air and fuel to move forward.
I would be interested in others comments
Cheers, Craig

[isuzurover]

Hi eddomak, I too have used the K&N filters before and believe that they do aid in air flow. After all, your vehicle relys on air and fuel to move forward.
I would be interested in others comments
Cheers, Craig

It certainly "aids airflow" - or more correctly, reduces pressure drop across the filter, but only in the same way that removing the filter/intake ducts would also decrease pressure drop.

Would you drive a 4x4 with no filter at all?

A number of italian supercars and bikes of yesteryear ran no air filters at all. However I suspect the owners could likely afford regular engine rebuilds. They also weren't 4x4s, and probably weren't driven in dusty countries like AU.

Filter manufacturers design filters to have sufficient filtration efficiency (particle removal) with the minimum pressure drop possible (given space and cost constraints).

Aftermarket foam/cotton media are no different, however the manufacturers of such filters have decided that "sufficient" filtration efficiency is a lower number than the filter/vehicle manufacturer has. It is not as if they have a sophisticated media or anything like that - the OEM filter manufacturers usually have much more sophisticated/optimal media in their filters.

[Disco4SE]

Hi Ben,
Not exactly sure where you are coming from? The K&N filter, I believe has a great filtration system. Are you comparing it with having no filter?
As with exhaust systems, manufacturers design filters to 'do their job' as opposed to being the most efficient.

[Neil P]

..... I have a question .............................................. on K&N Air Filters



Thank God for that ! I thought for a moment you were going to
ask a 19" wheel question ................ ;)

[gghaggis]

There have been a number of independent lab tests of after-market 'performance' air filters (most in Europe) such as K&N, and although not unanimous, the overall conclusion has been that they provide less filtering than the OEM-supplied filters. Ben will have the details, as I recall him posting on this before. In dusty conditions you're better off with the slight performance hit of the better-filtering OEM ones.

Cheers,

Gordon


Hi Ben,
Not exactly sure where you are coming from? The K&N filter, I believe has a great filtration system. Are you comparing it with having no filter?
As with exhaust systems, manufacturers design filters to 'do their job' as opposed to being the most efficient.

[isuzurover]

Hi Ben,
Not exactly sure where you are coming from? The K&N filter, I believe has a great filtration system. Are you comparing it with having no filter?
As with exhaust systems, manufacturers design filters to 'do their job' as opposed to being the most efficient.

In every independent test I have seen, K&N filters have ALWAYS come out significantly worse in terms of filtration efficiency compared to the OEM filter they are designed to replace.

EDIT
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1911.jpg
http://www.billswebspace.com/AirFilterTest.htm

[Neil P]

The extra dust actually aids filtration.

At which point does "more clogged " become useless ?

[Neil P]

It may also void your engine warranty



...... like anything , just exchange it before service .

As for engine life , I don't don't think anyone is concerned
about who buys their old vehicle anymore than who buys
their house or is sleeping with their Ex. .............

It really isn't worth asking these filter questions , or who
voted for whom etc . It's the buyers choice ....... and that's that .

[Disco4SE]

Probably sounds like a dumb question, but what is an OEM filter?
Also, I can understand the importance of good air filtration in dusty conditions, however if most of your driving is on road, would the K&N filter be so bad?

[CSBrisie]

I think OEM stands for Original Equipment Manufacturer and it means that the item you are buying will be to the same standard as that originally fitted to the vehicle

[Disco4SE]

Thanks BlackPerth. Thought it may mean along those lines.
Pays to ask sometimes even if you sound like a dumb arse

[isuzurover]

Probably sounds like a dumb question, but what is an OEM filter?
Also, I can understand the importance of good air filtration in dusty conditions, however if most of your driving is on road, would the K&N filter be so bad?

As mentioned - Original Equipment Manufacturer.

As you can see above, in this case (Duramax diesel air filters I believe) the AC Delco (likely "OEM quality") is ~99.9% efficient and the k&N is ~97% efficient. That 3% difference may not sound like a lot, but over time it means a huge difference in the mass of dust getting to your engine. Of course this would be worse if you drive in dustier conditions.




As with exhaust systems, manufacturers design filters to 'do their job' as opposed to being the most efficient.

It is important to note here that filtration EFFICIENCY is a precisely defined quantity. It is the percentage of particles which the filter will capture (in this case a mass percentage determined using ISO test dust).

Filters are usually designed based on a fixed efficiency value, and then the rest of the system is optimised to reduce pressure drop (and cost). Car manufacturers don't usually mind slightly more expensive filter elements, as they can pass the cost on to the customers.

As I said before, the "performance" filter media sacrifices efficiency for pressure drop.


At which point does "more clogged " become useless ?

When this pressure indicator says the filter needs to be replaced ;)
http://web.tradekorea.com/upload_file/prod/att/cat/dasco1/tp_html/img/dasco1_cat_17_large_img1_2.jpg
These are fitted standard on trucks and isuzu landies. The only reason the aren't fitted to cars is because the companies want to sell more filters (i.e. by scheduled service not by waiting till the filter actually needs replacing). Fitting one of these and only replacing your filter when it needs it would probably work out cheaper than buying a cleanable filter.

A number of people here and elsewhere have reported elevated silica levels in their oil when they have switched to oiled foam or cotton type filters.

[discojools]

I would go for original paper filter any time.. At least you can shake a bit of the dust out of it when in the bush.. The K and N is a pain as you have to have special liquid to clean it and then the special oil to oil it. All gets quite expensive and as I said not very bush friendly! Minimal performance difference too!

[tempestv8]

I wouldn't touch a K&N with a 10 foot pole.

Fine for carburettored engines but has no place in front of a Mass Air Flow sensor.

[Disco4SE]

Sounds like nobody is a wrap for the K & N filter.
Is there another filter that will allow more air flow, but still filter dust particles as good as the original?

Cheers, Craig

[Tank]

Sounds like nobody is a wrap for the K & N filter.
Is there another filter that will allow more air flow, but still filter dust particles as good as the original?

Cheers, Craig
Disco4SE, a simple test for you, hold your K&N filter up to the sky and if you can see bits of that sky through your filter, then paint it green and throw it into tall grass.
I had a K&N filter in my BA GT Falcon, slight power increase, nice induction roar, dusted engine at 15,000klms.
So if you wish to destroy your engine and void your Warranty for the sake of a nice induction sound stick with the K&N, BTW OEM filter is the answer to your question, Regards Frank.

[Disco4SE]

Thanks Tank. I have had the K&N filters in most of my vehicles including an 80 Series Cruiser that had done 400,000K, no problems.
I suppose for the extra gain its not worth the risk for the D4?

[isuzurover]

Sounds like nobody is a wrap for the K & N filter.
Is there another filter that will allow more air flow, but still filter dust particles as good as the original?

Cheers, Craig

Your best bet would be to contact Donaldson (head office) and ask if they manufacture any replacements which have lower pressure drop for the same filtration performance.

[RoverLander]

Thanks for the info. I will be staying with the original air filter and probably taking a spare with me on the trip. I'll just check it after 5 or 6 dusty days and see how much crap has accumulated and shake it out.

I find it odd that a 4x4 comes with an owners manual that says absolutely nothing about taking care of your air filter in dusty conditions. Maybe it's just me.

[RoverLander]

I've now had a safari snorkel fitted... but that prompts another question. Can you fit a pre cleaner to this unit and if so has anyone done this? Is it worthwhile doing for a dusty trip. This on a D4 HSE3.0

[gps-au]

I've now had a safari snorkel fitted... but that prompts another question. Can you fit a pre cleaner to this unit and if so has anyone done this? Is it worthwhile doing for a dusty trip. This on a D4 HSE3.0

Somewhere I did see a boot to fit over the head, thought about it and what a restriction of airflow it would be.

Now unless you also had a massive air scoop to compensate :eek: