Supercharge a TD5?

[curnow]

G'Day Gang,

Has anyone put a blower on a TD5.
I have a 2000 130 Defender that has done 290k. I have bought a low k TD5 motor that is complete except for the exhaust and turbo. I was thinking of putting a supercharger on the old motor as an experiment and wondered if it has been done before?

Cheers
Dennis

[Disco_owner]

you'd better off wacking in a VNT turbo on a TD5 and Chipping it:twisted:

see Tombie2 , He..Da..man :cool:

and while you're at it get a with Bigger fridge.:D

[clean32]

Love super chargers. But they are not as simple as one would think and I could almost guarantee that it would work out much more expensive than just grabbing a stock manifold and after market turbo, plus Tomibes magic.

Although a super charger is much more efficient than a turbo ( assuming roots type) its efficiency that becomes a problem.

Now remember that a super charger is a positive displacement, unlike a turbo it will push air against anything. Off throttle you will have the same boost as if you were on throttle. if your super charger is set up for 10psi you will ( closely) have 10 psi all the way though the rev range, that will mean heaps of grunt low down, it also means that it may be a bit hard on the clutch etc. tubos have the advantage of having to spool up in this respect.
Off throttle a turbo will spool down quickly but a super charger will not, trailing throttle at 10psi wow who need brakes but maybe a new gearbox.

Next problem is most automotive super chargers are for petrol motors so they are really designed for lower boost, say 6psi tops. This is not good for a diesel so some modifications will be needed, things like pressurizing behind the seals. Drilling taping and a regulator. (this stops the seals blowing) if you wish to run higher pressures

A bypass can be made up to waste boost when off throttle and on idle.

Then we come to fueling, personally with a TD5 i would have no idea where to start.

You will probably be told that a super takes power from the crank where a turbo only uses waste energy, well this is true but it’s very misleading, a super charger may take for a TD5 10psi maybe 5hp, but I can guarantee you that by bolting on a turbo you will lose more than that 5psi just in the interference and poor exorst flow. The upside is that since a turbo has to over come its own back pressure a super charger will not have this problem and will benefit more from a free flowing manifold etc. the end result is more power for less pressure IE say 10 psi supper charged = 14 psi turbo charged. In addition the heat generated by a super charger is much less than that of a turbo.

[curnow]

Thanks for the info.
I may still do something with a blower when I have nothing esle to do with my time and can't find anything else to spend my gazillions on. :D

Cheers
Dennis

[Bigbjorn]

Supercharged diesels were common years ago. The Allis Chalmers 45 motor grader is one that comes to mind. It had a Buda diesel engine with a Roots type blower in a very tidy and well designed installation. You do need to determine the volume of air delivered per revolution of the blower. To achieve 15 psi boost over atmospheric you need to supply twice the engines swept capacity of air for every two engine revolutions. You can calculate the necessary blower drive ratio and thus pulley sizes once you know the blower's delivery and the boost pressure you are seeking.

[Tombie]

Even on a defender it would be an engineering nightmare just trying to fit the drive into a useful position.

Everything can be done, but I think this one would be massive fabrication for very little (if any) benefit.

But I like how your brain thinks.... :D

[Tombie]

You could also look at a compounded turbo...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1970.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1971.jpg

[Bigbjorn]

Even on a defender it would be an engineering nightmare just trying to fit the drive into a useful position.

Everything can be done, but I think this one would be massive fabrication for very little (if any) benefit.

But I like how your brain thinks.... :D

The idea is good and would certainly work well. You would have to do a certain amount of development and tuning as is usual with supercharger installations. Use a pyrometer to help adjust the fuel delivery and maybe have to change drive pulleys to get the boost you need.

Fitting it under the bonnet of an already cramped area might be a challenge.

[stig0000]

do it,,:D:D, make a kit and il buy it:D:D

[flagg]

As Clean said, you will loose out in your top end. Best way to get around this is to supercharge, AND turbo charge it (twin-charging)

Stop laughing, Lancia did this with their S4 and 037 (other have as well..) :p

Twincharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


In the real world though, VNT is a better choice.

[goanna_shire]

I love the talk of this crazyness!!! If there's a diesel equivelant of petrol head i'm that.

Staying tuned..

P.S. maybe do it to a strong engine like a 4bd1 eh? :o;);):D

[clean32]

As Clean said, you will loose out in your top end. Best way to get around this is to supercharge, AND turbo charge it (twin-charging)

Stop laughing, Lancia did this with their S4 and 037 (other have as well..) :p

Twincharger - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twin_charging)


In the real world though, VNT is a better choice.

uummm i didnt actualy say that. the top end would be the same or better depending on how you set it up. Its the bottom end that becomes the problem. as for cost i would sajest that a super charger would work out cheeper over all than say fitting a turbo IF you are able to do it your self. paying for it to be fitted would be a difrent story.
super charger say $350, drive Bsection belt and blocks $100 tops plus ducting say $100 a micro switch and electric dump valve $60. but as tombie pointed out, fitting it all in would be the problem.

[clean32]

I love the talk of this crazyness!!! If there's a diesel equivelant of petrol head i'm that.

Staying tuned..

P.S. maybe do it to a strong engine like a 4bd1 eh? :o;);):D

done a lot of thinking and messuring and i think i know how i would do it.

move the fule filter ( good time to change to a disposable one.

frount mounting points from the PS timing cover, inlet manifold, back from the inlet manifold.
drive from the water pump, 180 mm Dia B section Blower 140mm Dia

etc etc

[goanna_shire]

salivating at the thaught..... mmmmmm...... supercharger.
It would sound very very good 1 would imagine and would put out some serious torque.

Maybe have to jimmy up a 15 speed crash box to hang on to the bastard though :eek::eek:

[Patrol 32]

Curnow,
Some years ago I completed a number of technical investigations into replacing the Garrett turbo on a Isuzu 4BD1T with a Sprintex (twin screw) supercharger.
In short, the positive displacement supercharger produces a much better charge air flow than a turbo (or a belt driven compressor), in that it is consistant through the rev range. There is no delay in boost pressure because the super is mechanically driven by the engine at a fixed drive ratio (usually).
In my experience of driving a supercharged Toymotor (6cyl diesel) the vehicle drove much as you would expect a petrol powered vehicle with similar output, so long as you do not go nuts, there is no ill effect attributed to installing the supercharger, it is an air pump.
To charge air boost; the TD5 has a factory boost of 15psi (1 bar) so long as you do not exceed this by way of supercharger sweep volume and drive ration, then you will not overstress the engine.
The down side is installation. the MAF and vacume tubes all must be inpalce on the lowpressure side of charge air intake and although the charge air will be much cooler (relatively) than turbo charged air, you should still use the aftercooler to reduce the charge air as much as possible.
Now contrarily, I have recently rebuilt my TD5, nasty case of dust ingestion, and amongst other things, I have ceramic coated the Exhaust (manifold, turbo and exhaust pipe), and Inlet (turbo compressor, inlet manifold). These changes appear to have greatly improved acceleration and response, while dramatically reducing underbonnet heat.
For the cost, you may like to investigate this option first rather than what I suggest will be a lengthy and expensive series of modifications to instal a supercharger (much as I also looked into this alternate myself ).
Sprintex quoted me A$2,500 for an appropriate model for the TD5 and offered to instal, though noe estimate was provided as they had not previously done a TD5.
lastly, before changing any of the factory hardware, cooling the charge air is the most effective improvement you can make. have a look at Laminova water to air coolers, there are a number of peole on the net offering off-the-shelf aftercoolers which can easily be installed in the LR engine bay.

Good luck.

MS

[Blknight.aus]

I love the talk of this crazyness!!! If there's a diesel equivelant of petrol head i'm that.

Staying tuned..

P.S. maybe do it to a strong engine like a 4bd1 eh? :o;);):D

well Im currently looking at throwing a VNT onto one and sitting it at something like 45psi but I cant find one that will develop that till i have the 4bd1 pushing 1200rpm...

[strangy]

Honestly you blokes rabbit on.....it is easy just get this .Ford Turbo Air Intake Performance Supercharger Fan Kit | eBay (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Ford-Turbo-Air-Intake-Performance-Supercharger-Fan-Kit-/250873410498?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3a693873c2)

:Rolling::Rolling:

[rovercare]

well Im currently looking at throwing a VNT onto one and sitting it at something like 45psi but I cant find one that will develop that till i have the 4bd1 pushing 1200rpm...

No your not:p

[Rickoz]

G'Day Gang,
Has anyone put a blower on a TD5.
I have a 2000 130 Defender that has done 290k. I have bought a low k TD5 motor that is complete except for the exhaust and turbo. I was thinking of putting a supercharger on the old motor as an experiment and wondered if it has been done before? Cheers Dennis
Not a Land Rover Diesel but SuperCharged Diesel Toyota HiLux 2.2D Eaton Supercharger - YouTube

[uninformed]

didnt Allard supercharge LR diesel back in the 60's??????

[PAT303]

Supercharged 2.2,at least now it has enough power to keep up with school kids on BMX bikes. Pat