Solar hot water Sucks

[Gillie]

Well we got to a minimum of -4 degrees Celcius here on Monday. Once again our Solar hot water panels on the roof burst due to frost.


Not less than 12 months ago the same thing happened. Now this is a brand spanking new house and solar hot water system. The first time around was due to it being installed incorrectly without frost protection valves. After having a plumber come back 5 times to install the new panels and fix the subsequent leaks, (and he left two tiles off the roof for 5mm of rain to get into the roof space!:mad:) we told the company concerned to get another plumber that knew what he was doing. New plumber comes along and he was great and went through the whole system and fixed all the prvious mistakes. All this was under waranty.

Less than 12 months later the same thing has happened. Plumber checked it out and confirmed two new solar panels need to be ordered. The company concerned rang up and said the builder should never have installed them in your area and They will talk to a director and get back to me. As yet I haven't heard anything.

The system itself monitors the ambient air temp and when it gets down to 2 degrees (I think or it may be 4 degrees) than the circulatory pump kicks in and keeps hot water circulating and the frost valves will dump some water. This will keep occurring until the air temp gets back up over 2 or 4 degrees.

Either way I look at it I think there is going to be a bit of pain and anger moving forward.

[John W]

Not at all good. Sounds like the wrong system for where you live. Some brands have antifreeze in the panels with a heat exchange type unit in the tank for installations in frost areas. I think solar hart is one such, need to get your builder motivated to sort this for you. Good luck.

[Hoges]

Back in 1981 I installed a Solar Edwards (2 panels) plus 300L tank on the roof of our then new home in the Tuggeranong Valley in Canberra. We also put pink bats in the ceiling cavity.

Now we discovered two things...the HWS had an electric element in the bottom of the panels such that when the temp got down to -2degC these were activated and stopped it from freezing up....then they failed. So we installed you-beaut expensive Japanese valves in the bottom of the panels which opened and dumped cold water when the temp got to -1degC...so far so good.

Because we had insulated the ceiling cavity, the pipework between the tank and the mains feed...which went up through the roof would freeze as it got no heat from below...so at 5am I would be up the ladder in the roof with a heat gun attempting to unfreeze the pipe and prevent a flood from burst mains...
Being in a frost hollow the temp regularly dropped to -8degC...

The solar Hart with its glycol filled panels and heat exchanger is a much better design for said climates.

with a growing family the solar HWS was a real boon and cost effective over 10 yrs. Now I live in sunny Bris... growing family all grown and living elsewhere ... solar HWS? nup... would take 15 yrs at least to recover the cost...

[austastar]

Hi, if I was going to use solar HW, I would use it as a pre-heat to any other system (gas, wood, electric etc)
cheers

[rick130]

Hmm, probably why a mate who was in charge of R&D at Dux told me to steer clear of Solar as it regularly hits -7* here on those cold, clear nights.

[Rangier Rover]

:eek::eek: I have put one of these systems in here:(

EcoSmart Electric Boosted Solar Hot Water Systems (http://www.ecosmart.com.au/electric_boosted.html)

Hasn't popped yet but I'm a little worried now.

[vnx205]

You just need the right sort of solar HWS.

In the early 1980s, we had a Solarhart with antifreeze in the panels and a heat exchanger in the tank. It survived a lot of -4 nights and one -6. At the time, I believe they were not available everywhere, but where being installed in Canberra and surrounds. They must surely be commonly available in cold regions by now.

Our next house had the heat pump style. It worked well and could create hot water even if it was snowing in the middle of the night, as it did a couple of times.

We now have the EcoSmart (a Dux) heat pump and are happy with that.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip>
with a growing family the solar HWS was a real boon and cost effective over 10 yrs. Now I live in sunny Bris... growing family all grown and living elsewhere ... solar HWS? nup... would take 15 yrs at least to recover the cost...Solar - take 15 years to recover the install costs? What is the lifespan of the solar panels? Isn't it around 10 years?

My folks built themselves a granny flat so they could move into it and my niece and her young family could move into the main house. I seem the remember that the council was requiring solar HWS. But don't quote me on it.

[blackbuttdisco]

We had a solar system on our last house for 20 years and its still there and working We moved to a colder climate just north west of Brisbane and put an Ecosmart unit on the roof and have only had to turn the power on once for 2 hrs so far this year. Why worry about how long it takes to pay it off?, your running costs are zero and I have never seen the power utilities lower their price. People buy new cars and and lose money as soon as they sign on the dotted line, then lose more when they drive it out onto the road. I'll have solar everytime, but buy the one for your area.

[ScottW]

I seem the remember that the council was requiring solar HWS.
Blame the greenies. They have petitioned the govt into outlawing electric hot water systems and into alternate energy forms instead on any new house, or to replace broken hot water systems. The heaters you need to use when there are a few cloudy days will wipe out any savings you might get.

Our hot water system is set to run on nite-rate electricity only (10pm to 5 am). They can't turn off the power generators at night so the energy goes no-where otherwise. Not sure what will happen when it carks it.

[digger]

"My Solar hot water Sucks"

mate, it must be hooked up backwards :D:D

sorry!..... I know that through the far north there is a heap of PVC solar systems, one I recall in public area is at WILLIAM CREEK racecourse and its
still going strong after at least 7 years?!

I think the theory is that its made so if it freezes it has "stretch" room and therefore doesnt POP!

Im not up on all that stuff, still a fan of the donkey hot water system...
(some will know what that means!) or an AGA!

cheers
digger

[Hoges]

Quote:
with a growing family the solar HWS was a real boon and cost effective over 10 yrs. Now I live in sunny Bris... growing family all grown and living elsewhere ... solar HWS? nup... would take 15 yrs at least to recover the cost...


should explain...I am a fan of SHW in the right circumstances...the 15yrs estimate is due to the fact that there's only 2 of us now and we use bgr all hot water compared with times previous.

[miky]

I have an electric (off peak = cheaper electricity) HWS tank in the roof.

If/when it packs up I will have to install a solar system. No choice. In South Australia you are now only allowed a gas or a solar system. Electric is no longer allowed :mad:

And of course I don't have gas.

[scarry]

And don't think they only freeze down south.We lived at Waterford,a suburb on the southern outskirts of Brisbane for many years & our solar heart burst after freezing up one very cold August morning.
The comment those days,around 15 yrs ago,was they should have a small heater in the unit to stop it freezing.

[Bundalene]

I can't speak highly enough of the Solar Hart. We installed ours in 1978 and it is still going strong. We have "frost protectors" installed on ours, which is simply a copper disc in the lower end of the lower end of each panel. These did pop out once, many years ago and it was simply a matter of knocking them flat again and inserting a new O ring.

There was a cold climate kit available for our unit which entailed a pipe heater and thermostat, but we were advised that this was not required in South West Sydney. We get good frosts on a few days each year, covering the roof of our house.

***TOUCH WOOD***

Erich

[Banjo_pluker]

I can't speak highly enough of the Solar Hart. We installed ours in 1978 and it is still going strong. We have "frost protectors" installed on ours, which is simply a copper disc in the lower end of the lower end of each panel. These did pop out once, many years ago and it was simply a matter of knocking them flat again and inserting a new O ring.

There was a cold climate kit available for our unit which entailed a pipe heater and thermostat, but we were advised that this was not required in South West Sydney. We get good frosts on a few days each year, covering the roof of our house.

***TOUCH WOOD***

Erich


This system is the old solar hart,

as mentioned earlier they use glycol now as a heat exachanger instead of the old system,

I am not a fan of solar hot water as such, I now have a 440L solar hart system on the roof, it is not as hot as our old electric (it was not that old either) and can't be turned up anymore.

If I had my time again I would not change over to solar until the electric unit has died.

I think (lots of rumours) NSW is going the same way as mentioned SA is: can only have gas or solar

[bee utey]

I have an electric (off peak = cheaper electricity) HWS tank in the roof.

If/when it packs up I will have to install a solar system. No choice. In South Australia you are now only allowed a gas or a solar system. Electric is no longer allowed :mad:

And of course I don't have gas.
There's always ebay, you'd be surprised how many good low mileage HWS tanks get ripped out and replaced during renovations. I spent ages looking for a good replacement for my LPG instant heater which was a real guts of gas. Finally found a "Quantum" heat pump HWS which produces all of our hot water for about 1/3 of the cost of the bottle gas one. And I found it on ebay for about 1/4 the cost of a new one, like only $800. I had to go over to Seymour in Vic to pick it up though, cost me another $300. But still cheap and counts as solar as far as the SA govt is concerned.

[lardy]

Solar hot water Sucks ...not at all it should be pumped it must be put together wrong

[spudboy]

...Im not up on all that stuff, still a fan of the donkey hot water system...
(some will know what that means!) or an AGA!

cheers
digger

You're making me think of Scout camps, from when I was a much younger lad.

Is a Donkey a 10 gallon drum, set sideways over a fire, with a funnel on top?

I think we called them Piddling Percy's....

[V8Ian]

Carrying a couple of dixies?

[digger]

You're making me think of Scout camps, from when I was a much younger lad.

Is a Donkey a 10 gallon drum, set sideways over a fire, with a funnel on top?

I think we called them Piddling Percy's....

try this.

KatherineRegion Northern Territory Australia (http://www.ourterritory.com/outback/donkey.htm)

but all I've seen have the 44gall drum half or more buried in dirt with concrete block around whole set up (holding dirt etc), under drum is a fireplace.... up behind drum a chimney... it works well and its efficient! (burns paper, bits of wood, coal, and other "combustables) like disposable nappies....:angel::angel:


actually see this... for A CAD DRAWING OF DONKEY HWS!!! CAD DRAWING : 'DONKEY' HOT WATER BOILER DETAILS (http://www.cad-architect.net/http_cad_drawings/cad_drawing__'donkey'_hot_water_boiler_details.htm )


They still use one at FARINA Campground.... if anyone has a photo??

CHEERS
Digger

[richard4u2]

that donkey heater, how would it be if you used a 44 gal drum the ones they use for honey as they are stainless steel and have it off of the ground about 18 inches and wrap a mirrow around it to reflect the suns rays onto it that would give you mega free hot water

[PhilipA]

Lorella Springs NT has a great one.
Its a car radiator in the bowl of an old Copper. Water is run through the radiator by a pressure pump for the showers.

Quobba Station also has more traditional ones with the 44gallon drum and a pressure pump for teh showers.

I saw/used a good variation at a sheep station in Qld. They have a pipe vertical like a flagpole to provide a head so that the showers work. I think it was sealed so that the hot water ran up the pipe on expansion thus creating a head.
Regards Philip A

[Basil135]

I have an electric (off peak = cheaper electricity) HWS tank in the roof.

If/when it packs up I will have to install a solar system. No choice. In South Australia you are now only allowed a gas or a solar system. Electric is no longer allowed :mad:

And of course I don't have gas.

I hope for your sake that you at least have gas going past the front door.

We had to replace our gas HWS last year, but since the new regs, we would have had to increase the size of the gas line, increase the size of the water line, and install a power point next to the unit.

The unit would have been the cheapest part, with all the new connections the install would have cost MEGA $$$.

Fortunatly, we found a brand new one exactly the same as the old one interstate, and had it sent over.

[Landy Smurf]

we have had our solar panel hot water system for about 23 years and not one problem,works most of the time and saves us heaps of money

[Gillie]

that donkey heater, how would it be if you used a 44 gal drum the ones they use for honey as they are stainless steel and have it off of the ground about 18 inches and wrap a mirrow around it to reflect the suns rays onto it that would give you mega free hot water

Im rating this idea!

[dullbird]

We had ours fitted about 4 months ago...and ours is good down to -15 I believe.

[Gillie]

We had ours fitted about 4 months ago...and ours is good down to -15 I believe.


hi Dullbird, What breed is yours?

[dullbird]

hi Dullbird, What breed is yours?

I can't remember..hahahahahahah:D

Although it has ecosmart written on the tank.

Ours is glycol (spelling?) based which allows it to be able to endure much lower temperatures.

When getting the quote there was two systems available..I can't remember for sure now but one I think was to like 4/0 degrees and the other one which we got (even though we were unlikely to get to those temps) was something like -15...Its cost a little bit more but we decided best way to go.

we have had very low temps recently...not in the minuses though! and it has been working like a dream...and in fact we only had to put the booster pump on last month.

Muddymech knows a hell of a lot more about the system as he did a hell of a lot of reading before we got the unit put in and spoke to a lot of companies so if you have any other questions probably best to ask him:)

oh ours is also a unit with a tank in the house not on the roof (suddenly thought I should probably put that in)

[d2dave]

There's always ebay, you'd be surprised how many good low mileage HWS tanks get ripped out and replaced during renovations. I spent ages looking for a good replacement for my LPG instant heater which was a real guts of gas. Finally found a "Quantum" heat pump HWS which produces all of our hot water for about 1/3 of the cost of the bottle gas one. And I found it on ebay for about 1/4 the cost of a new one, like only $800. I had to go over to Seymour in Vic to pick it up though, cost me another $300. But still cheap and counts as solar as far as the SA govt is concerned.


You were ripped off. A footy club here in Vic brought 17 of these for only $20 each.

More waste: not solar, not needed, not entitled | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog (http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/more_waste_not_solar_not_needed_not_entitled)

Dave.

[123rover50]

We had a 2 panel standard Solarhart on the coast for 18 yrs ,no problems. Here in the bush we have had the heat exchanger Solarhart for 12 yrs and only turn on the booster if more than 2 days of rain.
We have a wood heater in the room under it , does anyone have experience with putting water coils around the flue and plumbing into the Solarhart pipes?

[bee utey]

You were ripped off. A footy club here in Vic brought 17 of these for only $20 each.

More waste: not solar, not needed, not entitled | Herald Sun Andrew Bolt Blog (http://blogs.news.com.au/heraldsun/andrewbolt/index.php/heraldsun/comments/more_waste_not_solar_not_needed_not_entitled)

Dave.
Fair comment, but the Quantum salesmen didn't offer me any! The motel operator who sold me the unit was one of the people who got them on the rebate. Because they are a bit noisy and more expensive to run than gas he decided to remove them all one by one and go back to instant natural gas. These he has to pay for so he needed money from the heat pumps. I am very happy with the unit as I have it time-clocked to go off before bed time.

[jx2mad]

Install a chip heater and tell council to go jump. Jim