Towing Mirror Alternatives

[Watpub]

Okay, here goes with my "tool of the year" award post...

Previous vehicle: Landcruiser 100 GLX (very base model)
New vehicle: D4 HSE (more features than you can poke a stick at)

Problem: The first time I hop out of the D4 and lock up the mirrors close in.:( Doh! What do I now do for towing mirrors??? Having a read of relevant posts here it would appear that most towing people have opted for rear view cameras on their rigs, so now for my question(s)...

What caravan reversing camera systems are people using for towing? Is anyone using a wireless system (the local Autobahn person told me they didn't work all that well - not that I'd buy a reversing camera system from Autobahn)? And what about monitors - is it best to get a separate screen or one of those mirror clip on ones? Can a caravan camera be patched into the D4's screen in any way (I didn't get the entertainment pack with the aux video inputs)? Any advice/recommendations greatly appreciated...

Regards,

Ron

[GeorgeK]

I can't beleieve this happened to me again! Why is it I craft a reply and then I lose it when the system logs me off :confused: Not happy!!! This time I'll save it before posting.

Hi Ron,

This issue , to me and other caravanners, is important. Everyone who has towed a van knows that the most stressful time between normally sane, sober and peaceful partners often after many years of peaceful cohabitation is during caravan reversing manoeuvres! It has lead to marriage breakdown.

My D4 HSE finally arrived and I too have been wrestling with the same problem about van cameras. However I am puzzled by your question. I don't understand the connection between towing mirrors and van reversing cameras. A van rear camera does not replace towing mirrors.

In my case my D4 will be used primarily as a van tug with an occasional off-road foray. I ordered the surround camera system as I wanted the 'tow assist' and 'tow hitch assist' functions. My new van on order from Roma will have a rear camera hard-wired with a video lead to the drawbar where it will connect to the rear of the D4.

During pre-delivery my dealer removed the 'European' white plug and replaced it with the video lead (to connect to the van's camera) and an anderson plug to provide power to the van's batteries whilst on the move. The video lead remains unconnected under the dash at the moment.

My dealer and I have had discussions concerning where the van's camera images could be displayed. Our original thought would be to have the van's images displayed on the D4 screen. My dealer (and research with LR) say the van's images cannot be integrated into the existing surround camera system. So we thought we could set up a separate screen for the van. My dealer is concerned as to the placement of this screen. He is going to see of the van's images can be displayed separately on the D4 screen. This would require me to switch between images. I have thought about this and I think it would be much better to have a separate screen so that the D4 can use 'tow assist' and I can have the van's camera images displayed at the same time.

I would be grateful for anyone's views. Is my thinking flawed? I am seeing my dealer in the next couple of days and I will post results of my research.

Cheers

George

[Disco4SE]

Hi Watpub, what do you think of the D4 compared to the Landcruiser?
Cheers, Craig

[strudeltoowoomba]

Advanced Ice sell a unit that allows an additional video interface with the D4 system. See 2010 Land Rover 4 Video Interface (http://www.advancedice.com.au/products2/Discovery-4/2010-Land-Rover-4-Video-Interface) for info.


As for mirrors I use, an "ORA" brand that fits below the standard mirror and then onto the door via a magnetic pad. Have a look at Photos of Ora Products - Towing Mirrors and Accessories: Enzo Magnetic Door Mounted Mirror (http://www.caravanparkphotos.com.au/ora/target2.html) for a photo.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Steve

[Watpub]

My D4 HSE finally arrived and I too have been wrestling with the same problem about van cameras. However I am puzzled by your question. I don't understand the connection between towing mirrors and van reversing cameras. A van rear camera does not replace towing mirrors.


Hi George,

Great to see (hear?) you've got your van and a permagrin!

I had towing mirrors on my Landcruiser but they badly marked the wing mirrors over the years and I was hoping to avoid the same with the D4. I'm not a big fan of those mirrors that hook into the bonnet, so wing mirror extensions are my favourite - if I have to go down that path.

My van's 6 inches less in width than a standard van so I can still see down the sides with normal car mirrors (although it is better with towing mirrors). However, I was hoping to dispense with towing mirrors completely by using a rear view camera (as opposed to a reversing camera) that is permanently on when I'm using the van. I assume that I couldn't hook into the existing D4 screen so I'm leaning towards one of those 5" screens that has a suction cap connection to the window (like the GPS systems you can get).

I want to see what the traffic behind me is doing. I understand the marital hassles associated with van backing, but I've trained SWMBO how to use appropriate hand signals during those odd (and hopefully rare) backing occasions.

So are you saying that rear view cameras are not a replacement for mirrors? And if so, what sort of mirrors are you using - are they attached to the wing mirrors?

Regards, Ron

[Watpub]

Hi Watpub, what do you think of the D4 compared to the Landcruiser?
Cheers, Craig

Hi Craig,

Chalk and cheese! The responsiveness of twin turbos leaves the Cruiser for dead - it suffered badly from lag especially in later years.

Although I must admit I haven't yet fully squeezed the throttle to see how much rubber she'll burn!

Regards, Ron

[Watpub]

Advanced Ice sell a unit that allows an additional video interface with the D4 system. See 2010 Land Rover 4 Video Interface (http://www.advancedice.com.au/products2/Discovery-4/2010-Land-Rover-4-Video-Interface) for info.


As for mirrors I use, an "ORA" brand that fits below the standard mirror and then onto the door via a magnetic pad. Have a look at Photos of Ora Products - Towing Mirrors and Accessories: Enzo Magnetic Door Mounted Mirror (http://www.caravanparkphotos.com.au/ora/target2.html) for a photo.

Hope this helps

Cheers

Steve

Thanks Steve,

The AdvancedIce unit looks good. The ORA's going to be the way to go if I have to have mirrors - I was a bit concerned that the sleeve down the window might impede the window movement or eventually scratch the window - do you find this to be the case?

Regards, Ron

[Disco4SE]

Hi Craig,

Chalk and cheese! The responsiveness of twin turbos leaves the Cruiser for dead - it suffered badly from lag especially in later years.

Although I must admit I haven't yet fully squeezed the throttle to see how much rubber she'll burn!

Regards, Ron

Wait until it lossens up............say about 10K or so. I have done over 18K now and it really gets going. You notice a big improvement in the torque after these Klm's

[richard4u2]

i have been fiddling with cameras with the caravan and when driving they have been okay but i think the towing mirrors do just as good a job, with reversing they are good BUT you cant see the edge of your van to see where it is going , i have had a look at the reversing camera set up in the toyota prius where it gives you an outline of the car so you know where you are going . is there any reversing camera set ups like that on the market

[Watpub]

i have been fiddling with cameras with the caravan and when driving they have been okay but i think the towing mirrors do just as good a job, with reversing they are good BUT you cant see the edge of your van to see where it is going , i have had a look at the reversing camera set up in the toyota prius where it gives you an outline of the car so you know where you are going . is there any reversing camera set ups like that on the market

I've got the surround camera system on mine with the towing assist which as I understand it is supposed to do something like you're looking for - some sort of predictive reversing. Although I'd be a little nervous experimenting to see how well it works!

I'm really interested in the caravan camera to keep an eye on what is happening from behind as I'm driving. I found with the Cruiser I had that the towing mirrors let you see down the side of the van but every once in a while one of those yobs that insists on driving right up the back of my clacker wasn't immediately visible. Other times I just want to make sure that I have enough room to come back into the left lane after overtaking (yes, I know I shouldn't be overtaking with a van attached, but...)

Regards, Ron

[strudeltoowoomba]

Hi Watpub,

I have put a small cut in the rubber between the glass and the metal door skin to poke the plastic guide through. This way it keeps it off the glass and so long as the top support arm is straight does not touch or impede the window. I always give the door skin a quick wash before putting on the magnetic pad that way it should never scratch.

Cheers

Steve

[Watpub]

Hi Watpub,

I have put a small cut in the rubber between the glass and the metal door skin to poke the plastic guide through. This way it keeps it off the glass and so long as the top support arm is straight does not touch or impede the window. I always give the door skin a quick wash before putting on the magnetic pad that way it should never scratch.

Cheers

Steve

Hi Steve,

Aren't you worried about water getting in when the mirror's not there?

Regards, Ron

[strudeltoowoomba]

You got me doubting my original logic, so I pulled a door skin off a used D3 that we have wholesaled and the electrics etc are well protected. Any water that did get through and bear in mind the slit is only 25mm would run down and out the drain holes in the bottom of the door.

Some water will always get between the window glass and the rubber in high speed driving or using a pressure cleaner etc. so I can't see a major problem.

Cheers

Steve

[ahilliar]

I too am going down the rear view camera questions with the van.
D3 has gone the ORA mirrors with the magnetic pad and it is the best option I have seen to date

Now for the rear view camera.
Have chosen a twin rear camera (rear view and one that looks down at rear bar for tight reversing positions.

My question is has anyone used a RAM mount or similar to mount the monitor off the side of the consol.

US website shows single flexible arm 18" which allows the monitor to be positioned in a range of locations

[GeorgeK]

Hi Guys and Ron,

Sorry I haven't replied earlier but work has had my attention of late.

Ron I don't have my new van yet. I hope to take delivery in early September from Campbellfield.

Over the years I have had several different towing mirrors from the ORA type, to those that strap on as an extension to the vehicle's side mirror, to my latest version which requires bolting to the bullbar and a concertina type extension to the mirrors. The ones that fit to the car's mirrors are crap as they fold in without warning every time a truck passes coming the other way. The latest pair that bolt to the bullbar work really well although they are a pain in the bum to fit and remove if you have to do it often. Now that I have the D4 I don't have a bullbar therefore back to the towing mirror drawing board. Whilst manning the Australian Caravan Club stand at the last Sydney Caravan Supershow I took a strawpoll from experienced caravanners about what is the best type of towing mirror. Almost all agreed that the best towing mirrors are the Aussie Truck Mirrors (ATM) brand. I am told that ATM mirrors are no longer produced but that a particular RV parts and accessories company sell exact copies or have taken ATM over. These type of mirrors fit via a webbing strap clipped to the window sill and to the base of the car door. The webbing is tightened and the fit is very good I'm told. Some people suggest using contact plastic between the door and the tightener to prevent rubbing. I was warned against using magnetic pads as grit or sand can get between the pad and the door causing scratches and wear marks to the door. I haven't personally used these mirrors yet as I haven't taken my existing van out since I got the D4 last Friday. I hope I will have some time this weekend to play around with fitting the mirrors.

Ron, I agree with your comments about the yobbos who tailgate you when you are towing. What idiot would gain any creds doing this kind of thing? As I said in a previous post I will talk to my service manager at the LR dealer about screen fitting options. I am in a dilemma about in-car screen placement for the van images. I got surround cameras as an option for precisely the same reason as you, for the 'tow assist' and 'tow hitch assist' functions. I need to do some more research as to in-car screen placement.

A well known caravan magazine has a forum, of which I am a member, that answers these types and any other caravan related questions. I can pm you the details of the RV accessory company and the caravan forum if you wish.

Good luck with the mirrors and camera issues. I'd really like to know how you get on and what you decide as this would certainly influence my thinking.

Cheers

George

[vnx205]

.... .... ....

I've trained SWMBO how to use appropriate hand signals during those odd (and hopefully rare) backing occasions.

... ... ... ...


I'm not sure that system is infallible.

I was assured once by someone who owned and enormous coach converted o a motorhome that he used that system.

He gave it up and bought a couple of little handheld radios after an incident in a caravan park.

He told me (with a perfectly straight face) that he was trying to follow his wife's hand signals, but was having increasing difficulty as her hand waving became more and more erratic and energetic.

Eventually, he stopped and asked her what on earth her last hand signals were supposed to mean. She replied that they weren't hand signals. She was being attacked by a magpie. :D

Even the radios had their faults. Apparently passing truckies were not averse to offering less than helpful comical comments on his and his wife's efforts to manoeuvre the motorhome into caravan sites.

[Watpub]

Hi vnx205,

One of the greatest sporting events in life is to get to a caravan park early, set up, get out the most comfortable chair you can find and grab a coldie. Then you can sit there for literally hours as the other campers come in and try and back and manouvre their vans with spousal/partner assistance.:p I even once saw a couple of guys who were travelling together (I'm not sure if they were in a relationship) come to a verbal stoush over caravan backing and parking.

As far as the missus and me goes we've decide life is too short for heated arguments - just the occasional (and loud) sigh, or profanity seems to suffice.

Hi George,

No need to apologise for delays and work committments - I fully understand that problem.

At the moment, I'm leaning towards the ORA that clips on to the window sill and has the magnetic pad on the door. You are right about the mirror-attached ones - the one I had on the Cruiser blew shut everytime I passed a decent truck. I eventually got an extension arm on a magnetic pad to keep it in position. I did originally have apprehension about scratching the paint but as Strudeltoowoomba says below as long as you wash it underneath first it generally doesn't present a problem. I waxed the Cruiser regularly also which I think probably helped avoid damage. The other thing I like about the ORAs is that they can be quickly removed - great when you are staying longer at a site.

By the way, the cheapest I've seen any ORAs is actually on the ORA web site - so if you go down this path have a look at their prices before going to a caravan dealer.

I've also heard rave reviews about the ATM. My reservations are two-fold. Firstly I suspect that there are metal clips both top and bottom and that these would eventually damage paint or rubbers as they are tightened. Secondly, I'm sure there would be vibration caused by wind on the webbing strap that runs down the door and that this too would cause some damage to the paint.

It's funny really isn't it? I remember when fourbies were rough and tough do-anything type of vehicles. Now we're all precious about the paint work!;)

I'd appreciate it if you would pm me the ATM stuff. I'd like to have a good look.

And, hope the car's going well.

Regards, Ron

[richard4u2]

i think these 2 blokes were at busselton when i was there for a few days last week , top entertainment hahah
as for mirrors the pair i have now were from kmart on special $7, they clip onto the range mirrors and dont move when a truck passes i have had them for 3 years now

[Watpub]

i think these 2 blokes were at busselton when i was there for a few days last week , top entertainment hahah
as for mirrors the pair i have now were from kmart on special $7, they clip onto the range mirrors and dont move when a truck passes i have had them for 3 years now

One of them wasn't called Graham by any chance - I know they were heading West? ...but that's another story.

What? $7 mirrors on a new D4, I wouldn't be seen...:p Only kidding. I think I know the ones you mean. My concern with these (apart from my snobbery) is that if they are the ones I'm thinking of they are a bit small and flimsy. I'm really looking, if I have to use mirrors, to find ones as big as the standard mirrors to get a full height view down the side of the van. Nevertheless I'll take an excursion to Kmart on the weekend and have a sticky.

The problem also with the Disco 4 is that the side mirrors fold in when the car is locked. I suspect some damage may result if you've got extended mirrors on them that are somehow braced against the bodywork - I am assuming that some bracing will be needed. I found on my previous Cruiser that even a moderate passing of wind from one's proverbial was enough to push the mirrors inwards.

The other problem I find too is that the plastic brackets used to clip the extended mirrors onto the normal mirrors eventually caused a lot of damage to the paintwork/chrome on the mirrors - I'm becoming a bit of a sooky lala with the new D4.

Regards, Ron

[richard4u2]

they had tasi plates and in a white st/wag

[Watpub]

Nope, not the ones I was thinking of.

[disco4now]

This is where I ended up putting the rear vision camera screen for towing. I made a bracket so it could mount in front of the clock when towing the van. You can still see the clock if you need to by leaning forward a little.The pics below show
a) What the bracket looks like when screen is off
b) The bracket I made that slips under the existing panel an is attached by the existing screws.
c) The screen mounted when towing.

[Watpub]

Very nice piece of work Disco4now. That's the size and type of screen I've been checking out on flEabay. Thanks for the photos.

Regards, Ron

[discomaniac]

I'm still waiting for my D4 HSE to Arrive. Like the idea of using the Nav Screen for the Caravan Camera. Have been using a Caravan Camera for 5 years on my D3. Have been using a 7 inch screen that replaces/fits over the existing Rear view mirror.

As for towing mirrors, I have been using some mirrors from Pyramid called Suck it and See. Suction Towing Mirror: Flat from Towsure (http://www.towsure.com/product/9812-Suction_Towing_Mirror:_Flat) They simply stick on to the existing side mirrors. Use the electric controls for the mirrors to move to the correct viewing position.
I have found that when the mirrors are set correctly, I can see perfectly down the side of the van with the towing mirrors and see the wheels and lower part of the front of the van in the standard LR mirrors. I have been using them for 5 years, work very well, 10 seconds to install. If you have a HSE, use the seat/mirror memory setting to save positions. Couldn't be simpler or quicker.

Only problem, no one sells them in Australia that I know of. Ordered mine by internet from the UK, turned up in about 5 days.

Just my experience.

Discomaniac.

[Watpub]

Hi Discomaniac,

I hope your wait is not too much longer - I know the feeling of a long wait but as they all say on this forum the end result is worth it.

What a cracker of an idea - I realy like them (hey, if no one's importing them in Oz here's a business opportunity for you!). I saw the YouTube video on their site and the way they move with the power mirror adjustment is just the bees-knees.

The only reservation I have is that the D4 HSE external mirrors fold in automatically when the vehicle is locked. I haven't yet come across a setting that disables this and I'm concerned that something's going to break when the mirrors and their extensions fold inwards together.

With regard to the camera, I'd also thought about a rear view monitor that clips onto the windscreen mirror - but doesn't a dangling cable annoy the hell out of ya?

Regards, Ron

[Disco4SE]

Hi Discomaniac,

I hope your wait is not too much longer - I know the feeling of a long wait but as they all say on this forum the end result is worth it.

What a cracker of an idea - I realy like them (hey, if no one's importing them in Oz here's a business opportunity for you!). I saw the YouTube video on their site and the way they move with the power mirror adjustment is just the bees-knees.

The only reservation I have is that the D4 HSE external mirrors fold in automatically when the vehicle is locked. I haven't yet come across a setting that disables this and I'm concerned that something's going to break when the mirrors and their extensions fold inwards together.

With regard to the camera, I'd also thought about a rear view monitor that clips onto the windscreen mirror - but doesn't a dangling cable annoy the hell out of ya?

Regards, Ron

Hi Ron, if you do get the stick on mirrors, and they work, can you please let me know (and others).
Cheers, Craig

[Watpub]

Hi Ron, if you do get the stick on mirrors, and they work, can you please let me know (and others).
Cheers, Craig

Done deal Craig.

As I mentioned in my reply my only worry is what happens when the mirrors fold in? We might have to wait till Discomaniac's car arrives - he'd then be best able to advise whether they're compatible or not.

Regards Ron

[discomaniac]

The Screen in the Rear View mirror was very neatly installed. Cable disappears into roof lining from behind the mirror. Can't see it from driving position.

Will try the Stick on Mirrors on a mates D4 and report back. Generally, if I am going to be away from the vehicle, where it needs locking, I simply take them off and keep them inside the car for safe storage. Only a few seconds each side.

Discomaniac.

[GeorgeK]

Wow the suction mirrors look like a good fit. I wonder how they go at high speed. I'm another who would like to know how they test.

Although I'm still trying to find the time to play around with my Aussie Truck Mirrors.

Cheers

George

[Watpub]

The Screen in the Rear View mirror was very neatly installed. Cable disappears into roof lining from behind the mirror. Can't see it from driving position.

Will try the Stick on Mirrors on a mates D4 and report back. Generally, if I am going to be away from the vehicle, where it needs locking, I simply take them off and keep them inside the car for safe storage. Only a few seconds each side.

Discomaniac.

Thanks Discomaniac,

Sounds like you're creating a bit of a stir with these mirrors. I had a special look at my mirrors folded in today with these suction mirrors in mind and I reckon they'll clear things okay. They don't sit flush against the window but rather off on almost a 45 degree angle. I've sent an email off to the UK to get the price plus delivery.

I really like the fact that they are easily attached and really easily adjusted from inside the car! Also, given that they are easily attached, they are also easily detached when parked like you say.

Regards,

Ron

[Watpub]

Wow the suction mirrors look like a good fit. I wonder how they go at high speed. I'm another who would like to know how they test.

Although I'm still trying to find the time to play around with my Aussie Truck Mirrors.

Cheers

George

Hi George,

I must say these little puppies look really good. If the freight's not too hideously expensive I'm going to get a couple. I'll post info here if I do.

Regards,

Ron

[Watpub]

Hi all,

Has anyone ever seen/used these Milenco Aero (Milenco - Products - Mirrors - Milenco Grand Aero Towing Mirror (http://www.milenco.com/mirror-grandaero.html)) mirrors?

They claim in their blurb that they have been developed by F1 designers to withstand wind and won't slam back into the car! That impresses me :D - it's like 9 out of 10 doctors recommend... (hmm, may need to paint a GT stripe on the D4).

The video also shows how they connect and work with folding car mirrors.

What I like about them (purely from the advertising blurb):


They don't have a strap around the existing mirror (like the ORA's which eventually scratched my Cruiser mirrors)
They seem to work with folding mirrors (like on the D4)
They don't seem to need any additional bracing or straps on the bodywork
They look easy to get on and off


Regards, Ron

[Watpub]

What I thought was a simple task justs get more involved and complicated. For those interested here is a test of towing mirrors conducted in the UK http://www.milenco.com/media/Mirrors.pdf.

The only slight reservation I have with their testing is that they probably don't have whopping great B-doubles shooting past at 100k over there - or maybe they do?

Regards,

Ron

[GeorgeK]

Hi Ron and everybody,

I fitted the mirrors that I discussed in an earlier post in this thread over the weekend. They are copies of the 'Aussie Truck Mirror' or in this case they are the CAMEC Heavy-Duty Door Mirror. They are of the type that fit to the door's window seals with a webbing/strap that extends down the door to a clip to the underside of the door. (I'm crap at these descriptions!!) The mirror extends horizontally from the door sill and can be further extended. The webbing/strap is tensioned by a ratchet arrangement. I'm told it can be further tightened if the webbing is wet when fitted.

The fitting seemed solid enough and the electric windows went up and down without any problems and importantly without rubbing or catching on the mirror hardware. They seemed stable and solid to me and I'll give them a more practical trial later.

I wish I knew how to post pics on this site. I'm hopeless at this technology!

Cheers

George

[Watpub]

Thanks George,

I'd be keen to see how they look. I've got an album set up for my pictures but I believe you can use the Attachment tool in the toolbar at the top when you are writing a post to insert pictures.

And your description seemed fine to me.;)

Regards, Ron

[GeorgeK]

Hi Ron,

OK, I will set the mirrors up again in daylight over the weekend. I'm home too late at night to take decent pictures during the week.

I'll try to post the pics but if I can't manage I'll get a passing 12 year old to help. They all seem to be computer savvy.

Cheers

George

[never too old]

Here I go reviving another old thread. I am looking at mirrors and caravan cameras for my D4 and Bushtracker caravan which I have recently bought. I am particularly interested whether anyone tried the suction mirrors in the end and how they found them.

Might as well also ask all of you who have tried various options whether there are any new thoughts in relation to cameras and the positioning of the monitor.

This forum is great for a new kid on the block.

Thanks, Andrew

[Len Hall]

I recently purchased 2 Convex Milenco Aero Mirrors from Carevan on EBAY for $107.00AUD delivered from UK.
They work well, shake a little but not enough to blurr the image and have not yet had them move and need to be re-adjusted. The passenger side mirror does not extend as far as the drivers side because of the sharper angle of the D4's passenger side mirror.
The image you get from the D4 mirrors is still useful for steering around close objects and gutters, they would probably be useless when using the stick on mirrors.

[640Newton]

Here is another option if anyone wants to go down the camera route. This is a wireless option:
4Kam VU - Wireless reversing camera and rear view cam systems (http://www.4kamvu.com/roadeye_wireless_reversing_camera.htm)

[rogngab]

Hi all i was also looking into towing mirrors the only ones i liked were from clearview but the say another year before they are availiable for d4. have thought of side view cameras for the van with split screen lcd monitor would like to know if 120 degree cameras are ok for this job or 90 degree would be bettter cheers rogngab