P38 Brake failure timely reminder

[strange_rover1]

Gday all, just a memory jolt for those who have not had their P38 brake issue sorted. The mother in law was driving her 98 Rangie the other day with my youngest son on board and when all the cars in front stopped in a big hurry she jumped on the brakes and it did nothing and she went straight into the back of the other cars. My wife was driving the car the night before and she said something felt funny and they thought they had a flat tyre at first but notyhing seemed wrong. This has prompted me to do the Brake Modulator repair from Range Rover Solutions asap. Mum and my son were fine but that cant be said for the Rangie, which had just had brand new Gen 3 airbags fitted as well!!
Shano

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1000.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1001.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/1002.jpg

[wayneg]

Good to hear nobody was hurt, thats the main thing. Car does not look to pretty now, hope it gets sorted quickly.

[Scouse]

Ouch. It might be a bit late for the modulator work now as I've seen P38s written off with less damage than that :(.

[33chinacars]

Double Ouch. :(:( Sorry to see such a fine looking R.R. like that . As you said a timely reminder to fix things ASAP

[strange_rover1]

Well looks like the chassis isn't bent so may just be a matter of replacing the radiator and the panel work on the front. Its at the panel beaters now getting checked out. Gunna do the brakes on my P38 now though!! If we repair the grey one we will have to pull the modulator apart to check if it was that, wish we had some recourse with LR over this problem.
Shano

[rovercare]

Brake accumulator fails, then the pump works overtime, then it fails, the the above is the result:(

[p38arover]

I think he's referring to this mod:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/53794-all-p38-owners-up-mid-1999-please-read.html

[DT-P38]

Thats the one Ron, both the guy who has the solution and hardrange.com.au have the cheap DIY fix for sale. From memory it's about $100 or a reco/2nd hand ABS unit is a couple of grand...

Anyway it's all in that thread.

[PeterAllen]

Yes they are available from either Russel or Hard Range for $110 and includes all install instructions. This sounds like a must do on all P38's.

[PaulP38a]

Shano - your wife and mother-in-law should buy a lottery ticket each. That was a lucky escape and I am glad to hear none of your family was hurt.

Interesting to note that it looks like the air bags didn't go off. The crumple at the front looks bad but is hopefully superficial damage... it did as it is supposed to... absorb the impact so the passengers don't. New bumper bar, radiator and body panels are far easier to replace...

This post might also help explain the recent surge in interest and orders for the Brake Modulator Repair kits I've seen in the last 2 days.

Shano - I can't talk commercials in this forum, but PM me or contact through Hard Range Australia | Range Rover and other Land Rover Parts, http://hardrange.com (http://hardrange.com), or call me on 0412-012-025 if you want a special deal for a fellow P38 driver in need. The forum came to my aid when I needed it a while ago, and now I'm a position where perhaps I can help you out.

Cheers, Paul.

[PeterAllen]

Is there any way to determine if your car has already had the modification installed, as I have only had the P38 for a year now and have no history on the work performed on it in its previous life? I have on two occassions, had a strange brake reaction when the car has been first started up and felt like a bit of a fade and shudder. There was no further brake issue after further driving and I do not think it was ABS as the break pressure used at the time was only moderate at most. All fluids are at correct level.

[adm333]

If the previous owner only had it serviced by a mechanic, it is unlikely to have had the modification. I could be wrong, but most people who have installed the modification have been owners who have done it themselves using the instructions provided.

I asked my mechanic to remove the modulator for me and I then took it home and did the fix on the internals and took it back to him to reinstall.

The mod is very easy to do, I just wasn't confident pulling it out of the car myself.

Dave

[HSE30]

Sorry to those involved with the accident, but thank godness no one was hurt. RR's can be replaced, people not so easy. As others have said timely reminder to fix it before it fails, in this case as others very little warning from brakes working to nothing.
Regards Russell.

[andrew e]

Ouch, thats a decent hit. Glad to hear all got out fine.

Was there any warning that the brakes were failing? Is it intermitant?

ps, I have all the parts you need, including the chassis crumple zone (i bet you a 6 pack it is bent), just pm me when you are ready.


Andy

[strange_rover1]

Thanks for all the positive posts, good to have such good support through the LR community. Paul I have sent you a PM and thanks for your help. Panel beater has looked at it and reckons the chassis hasn't been touched at all, must be why the air bags didn't go off. So looks like its just the radiator and panel work to be replaced, oh yeh and probably the brake unit if the internals have bent. Thanks Andrew we may be in touch yet. It only gave the odd feeling to my wife the night before and she said it felt like a flat tyre, then it was fine again until it failed with no warning.
I am definitely doing the brake mod on my P38 now and can reccommend anyone else to contact Paul at Hard Range to do the same.
Thanks again everyone

Shano

[PeterH]

Ouch! Glad everyone was ok, pity about the damage though.
Is this an issue with all P38's or just certain years?
I have not heard about this before.

[DT-P38]

Sorry Peter don't have an answer, just another question...

do we know is there anyone out there doing the brake modulator kit as an exchange item (ie. they have a refurbished one to send you on purchase and you then return your one to them).

Not that I am being slack, (I will do it at some point) but if it reduces the time to fix the problem with out a massive hourly rate being involved (my last repair bill had the mechanic charged out at $110 an hour), it could help out the busier folk amongst us.

P.S. PaulP38A, what exactly does the buyer get in the fix kit you are selling and how much is it?

[PaulP38a]

Sorry Peter don't have an answer, just another question...

do we know is there anyone out there doing the brake modulator kit as an exchange item (ie. they have a refurbished one to send you on purchase and you then return your one to them).

Not that I am being slack, (I will do it at some point) but if it reduces the time to fix the problem with out a massive hourly rate being involved (my last repair bill had the mechanic charged out at $110 an hour), it could help out the busier folk amongst us.

What timing Dave!... We are in negotiations with a very reputable repairer of these units to offer such a service. We need to get a couple of kits made up first and work out a fair change-over price so all involved get a good outcome.



P.S. PaulP38A, what exactly does the buyer get in the fix kit you are selling and how much is it?
The kit includes the stainless steel locating washers and replacement o-rings for the piston and plunger, plus instructions in DOC and PDF format on CD. If you don't have a CD drive, I can supply them on a USB stick instead.

They sell for $110 inc GST plus postage, but since you mentioned it here and it is a significant safety concern, I will give them to AULRO members for $100 inc GST and free regular post anywhere in Aus. Please identify your AURLO name in the comment field of the order and I will adjust the invoice before requesting payment.

For the benefit of future owners of P38a's with the BMR kit installed, I'd like to see us mark the BM to state that the repair has been done.

Maybe this is an opportunity for Willem to sell me some stickers to include in the kit? as long as Russell agrees...

If I do this, I will send 1 sticker (just 1 for obvious reasons we don't need to discuss among friends) out to each person who has purchased the kit from me.

Cheers, Paul.

[Nomad9]

Hi Shano,
Did you get any of the brake warning lights coming on before the complete failure of the brakes or did this just happen? Bit of a worry if you don't get any warning at all, maybe I've missed something here, a previous post maybe, this eems quite bizarre if the brakes can just fail.

[WasabiPimpNinja]

Hi Shano,
Did you get any of the brake warning lights coming on before the complete failure of the brakes or did this just happen? Bit of a worry if you don't get any warning at all, maybe I've missed something here, a previous post maybe, this eems quite bizarre if the brakes can just fail.

If it's anything like my Mini Clubman, the warning light comes on to let you know the brakes have failed, not failing. As if hurtling down the street without being able to slow down was not enough of a warning, the little red light will confirm that you're boned ;)

[strange_rover1]

Gday Marty, I wasn't in the car at the time but my Mother in law said it didn't give any warnings at all, it just wouldn't stop!! Only precursor to it was a funny feeling through the pedal the night before.
Get the kit done if you are not sure, I would hate to see someone seriously hurt or even die through this safety fault. I still cant believe that LR will not do a safety recall on this!! I worked for Toyota years ago and I remember them doing a safety recall on all 4 runners as there was a chance of a steering joint failure, so they replaced them regardless of the age of the vehicle.
Shano

[PaulP38a]

Hey Shano, have those 2 BMR kits arrived yet? I posted them last Tuesday.

Keen to get your feedback on ease of installation, and any updates to the instructions.

Cheers, Paul.

[strange_rover1]

Gday Paul,
I havent been checking the mail, just read this and asked the family if anything had come for me and one of the kids had grabbed it out of the mail box and put it in their room. Sorry bout that has probably been here for a while and I didn't realise! I gave the missus the bank details but she said she hasn't put it through yet, I will get her to do that asap. Should hopefully get a chance to fit one of the kits next swing back in Perth all things going well.
Thanks again for your help mate, I have confidently recommended your business to many Rangie owners over here in Perth.

Shano

[PaulP38a]

Cheers mate, justed wanted to check you'd got them so you have the option of fitting when you have time.

I've got to do my own yet, although being a 99 it is a 50/50 chance that it is the updated version anyway.

[LandyAndy]

Are all P38a Rangies blessed with this fault???
Andrew

[poleonpom]

From what I can work out, all modulators will go at some point, due to their workings becoming brittle and giving way. I'm just about to re-build mine and change the accumulator at the same time.

[daljames]

Got a question on this one. When i put my foot on the brake pedal after accelerating and driving, the ABS, TC, and (!) lights go on for a split second. Could this mean i need to replace accumulator as well as doing the modulator repair? (Paul after my payday this week ill be in touch for the kit...)

Dallas

[WasabiPimpNinja]

Got a question on this one. When i put my foot on the brake pedal after accelerating and driving, the ABS, TC, and (!) lights go on for a split second. Could this mean i need to replace accumulator as well as doing the modulator repair? (Paul after my payday this week ill be in touch for the kit...)

Dallas

I had this on mine when I bought it. Replaced the accumulator (10min job) and it went away. It could be something to do with your modulator causing the three lights to come one, but for an extra $260 (I think that's what I paid) and 10min to replace the accumulator, it's worth it to refresh your set up.

I'd probably wait till you've rebuilt the modulator, see if the problem is still there, and if it is replace the accumulator. Otherwise you will wear out your ABS pump and have to replace that.

More than likely you'll have to swap it out sooner or later, so start planning for it in the near future :)

Cheers,
Keels.

[Rangey89]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but this happened to me today on the way home from work, luckliy just as I was pulling out from a servo on the highway and not on the highway itself!

Can the defunct unit be repaired with the kit, or will I have to source a 2nd hand unit and modify that one?

[adm333]

Depends if any of the components were bent when it all gave way.

If not, and only the plastic bits ****tered, then you will be able to repair it with the kit.

If you find the original thread on this topic, I have posted some detailed pics from when I did mine.

Mine did not fail on the road, but the plastic bits fell apart in my hand when I did the replacement.

Dave

[adm333]

Apparently '****tered' is a bad word. It is when describing critical brake components.

[adm333]

S-H-A-T-T-E-R-E-D, as in broke into many tiny pieces !