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windsock
20th June 2010, 07:37 AM
This article appeared on my online news (http://www.stuff.co.nz/technology/digital-living/3831440/Obama-internet-kill-switch-proposed)source this morning (attributed to the SMH) and got me thinking how would I be affected if the interent was shut down for whatever reason... :o

First off, I wouldn't have access to this valued source of activity related to Land Rovers (and a few other lists I log on to).

My job requires a high level of internet involvement, that'd go...

I do quite a bit of communicating over the internet in one form or another as I am quite deaf and don't do well over the phone, that'd go...

How would you be affected if the internet was 'no more' for any duration? The mind boggles at the thought of the level of dependancy I have built up around this cyber-tool.

Phil





Obama internet 'kill switch' proposed

US President Barack Obama would be granted powers to seize control of and even shut down the internet under a new bill that describes the global internet as a US "national asset".
Local lobby groups and academics have rounded on the plan, saying that, rather than combat terrorists, it would actually do them "the biggest favour ever" by terrorising the rest of the world, which is now heavily reliant on cyberspace.
The proposed legislation (http://hsgac.senate.gov/public/index.cfm?FuseAction=Files.View&FileStore_id=4ee63497-ca5b-4a4b-9bba-04b7f4cb0123), introduced into the US Senate by independent senator Joe Lieberman, who is chairman of the US Homeland Security committee, seeks to grant the President broad emergency powers over the internet in times of national emergency.
Titled "Protecting Cyberspace as a National Asset Act", the bill stipulates any internet firms and providers must "immediately comply with any emergency measure or action developed" by a new section of the US Department of Homeland Security, dubbed the "National Centre for Cybersecurity and Communications".
Lobby group TechAmerica told ZDNet (http://www.zdnet.com.au/internet-kill-switch-proposed-for-us-339303838.htm) it worried that the bill would give the US "absolute power" over the internet and create "unintended consequences".
One of Australia's top communications experts, University of Sydney associate professor Bjorn Landfeldt, railed against the idea, saying shutting down the internet would "inflict an enormous damage on the entire world".
He said it would be like giving a single country "the right to poison the atmosphere, or poison the ocean".
"All our financial systems, all our security systems ... we're so reliant on the internet that if you shut it down there's a question of whether society will continue to operate normally anywhere in the Western world," Landfeldt said in a phone interview.
"By doing this they would do the terrorists the biggest favour ever because they would terrorise the rest of the world".
Landfeldt said the US would be the only country in the world with the ability to shut down the internet. He said such a move would be extremely difficult for the US to justify to other nations.
"Unfortunately, too much of the core of the internet resides in the US - let's put it this way, they cannot shut down machines in Australia, but they can completely isolate us and shut down certain core functions like the DNS ... they can render the internet fairly useless for the rest of the world," he said.
Senator Susan Collins, co-sponsor of the bill, has said: "We cannot afford to wait for a cyber-9/11."
Lieberman argued the bill was necessary to "preserve those networks and assets and our country and protect our people".
He said that, for all its allure, the internet could also be a "dangerous place with electronic pipelines that run directly into everything from our personal bank accounts to key infrastructure to government and industrial secrets".
US economic security, national security and public safety were now all at risk from new kinds of enemies, including "cyber warriors, cyber spies, cyber terrorists and cyber criminals".
Geordie Guy, spokesman for the online users' lobby group Electronic Frontiers Australia, said governments around the world seemed terrified of some unidentified risk that they believe the internet poses.
"The proposal is from Joe Lieberman, a repeat offender on rights versus regulation, in a bill called Protecting Cyberspace as a National Asset Act of 2010," he said.
"One wonders which nation Senator Lieberman considers the internet an asset of, and how proposing its destruction by presidential or homeland security order protects it.
"The internet is not a national asset of the United States, nor is it a media regulation problem of Australia. It is an international network used by millions upon millions of citizens and it needs to remain free and available."
Communications Minister Stephen Conroy did not respond to calls requesting comment.
Google, one of the world's biggest internet companies, declined to comment as it was not yet official US government policy.

hook
20th June 2010, 07:58 AM
The Goverment trying to contorl something they don't own.

Control the Media
Contorl the Sheepeople:angel:

rockyroad
20th June 2010, 08:02 AM
Just an even more extreme version of rudds internet censorship idea.

Maybe now people will start wising up to obamas radical agenda.

Frenchie
20th June 2010, 08:27 AM
Time for the world to start developing internet hubs outside of the US so we can function without them.

loanrangie
20th June 2010, 09:23 AM
Its a joke, the whole point of the internet is so that if one cell goes down the rest will still be able to communicate.

disco2hse
20th June 2010, 09:42 AM
Can't happen. Not possible. Even if they wanted to.

Alan

abaddonxi
20th June 2010, 10:02 AM
Root nameserver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Pedro_The_Swift
20th June 2010, 10:03 AM
who says the yanks dont control the 'net?

do you really think your emails just go from your PC to your mates?

steve_35
20th June 2010, 10:09 AM
They need to control the net so they can control the economy of he world rather than there own country

In the modern world you could destroy an economy of a entire country overnight basically
stock trades
If you cant trades stocks your broke pretty bloody quickly

abaddonxi
20th June 2010, 10:19 AM
They need to control the net so they can control the economy of he world rather than there own country

In the modern world you could destroy an economy of a entire country overnight basically
stock trades
If you cant trades stocks your broke pretty bloody quickly

That argument also works for why they want control. The internet is the most vulnerable piece of infrastructure when it comes to terrorism, or to nuclear war/EMP.

clean32
20th June 2010, 10:30 AM
There are a number of governments investing in control measures over the internet. Currently its at the what we cant control we will destroy.

all we need to do is look at the recent Belugas, Ukraine and Georgian conflicts with Russia and the less advanced Chinese shutdown of information after there Race riots and natural disasters

windsock
20th June 2010, 11:17 AM
Root nameserver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_nameserver)

Anyone up for compiling summary notes on this? Read it but don't understand fully what it all means.

If the DNS things still have multiple remote sites (through Anycast?) doesn't that still mean whoever controls the master controls the remote site also?

clean32
20th June 2010, 11:34 AM
uumm think of them as a big directory lists

you type in an address like Aulo.com and the directory computer tells your computor what computor AULO.COM is actualy on

slug_burner
20th June 2010, 11:35 AM
They need to control the net so they can control the economy of he world rather than there own country

In the modern world you could destroy an economy of a entire country overnight basically
stock trades
If you cant trades stocks your broke pretty bloody quickly

I note your location is listed as "Area 52" is that so that the government will not know where to look for you when they enact their conspiracy.

steve_35
20th June 2010, 11:51 AM
Why is it when someone has an opinion that differs from that of Channel 604 they are a conspiracy nut

Why is it so hard to believe that the US government would do something to protect there assets

Area 52 refers to the state of the Murray river at the moment its a local joke:):)

disco2hse
20th June 2010, 01:09 PM
Anyone up for compiling summary notes on this? Read it but don't understand fully what it all means.

If the DNS things still have multiple remote sites (through Anycast?) doesn't that still mean whoever controls the master controls the remote site also?

Umm. Without getting all technical the nameserver system makes copies of addresses so that when you request a website or some other resource the system can quickly find it and send the data back to you. To make the system really efficient there is a hierarchy of nameservers from top level, to country level, to to lower levels within that. It is that level of copying that does two things well: 1, It means addresses are resolved quickly because the data needed to resolve them is readily to hand on a nearby server, and 2, if any part of the network were to be destroyed there are already copies of the same data held elsewhere on the network so that the same requests can be resolved. It also means that if part of the network were to be destroyed it can be easily rebuilt by re-establishing that part of the network that was destroyed and the missing data is automatically copied back onto it.

There are only a few top level domain name servers and they are situated in various places around the globe. Some are military, some are commercial, and some are academic. This reflects the origins of the Internet. Overall they are governed by ICANN which, although it does have a strong US influence, has representations made to it from multinational lobbies.

ICANN is non-governmental and since its inception has moved more toward a commercial role. For that reason alone, where money is at stake, it is less likely that members would allow a government agency to hold the power switch. That is not the American Way.

So far as localised governments who try to block content, none have been totally successful. For example on a recent trip to Vietnam I found certain sites such as Facebook were blocked. This was easily resolved by using, for example, OpenDNS.

Alan

e3j
20th June 2010, 01:35 PM
Time for the world to start developing internet hubs outside of the US so we can function without them.

Unfortunately that won't work. As mentioned in the article, the USA controls DNS and there can only ever be one DNS. (if you want to talk to anywhere else in the world) A separate DNS just for Australia would have a totally out of date database in 10 minutes.

Also the bit about American ownership amuses me. I always believed - and still do - that Tim Berners-Lee (a pom) "invented" the internet.

disco2hse
20th June 2010, 01:44 PM
Also the bit about American ownership amuses me. I always believed - and still do - that Tim Berners-Lee (a pom) "invented" the internet.

And working in Switzerland at the time ;)

But actually he didn't "invent" the Internet, he coined the phrase Worldwide Web (I have a copy of his research article in which he did that laying about here somewhere), which is what most people think of when they think of the Internet but it is a lot more than that.

What we know as the Internet has more to do with Vint Cerf (http://www.icann.org/en/biog/cerf.htm) than Tim Berners-Lee, although Lee has been more influential since then as founder of Web Foundation.

Alan

HangOver
20th June 2010, 02:03 PM
so if there are main DNS servers situated around the globe whats the big deal if the US shut down their end?
OK so maybe it would take a little longer to resolve addresses and the rest of the world would be not be able to access US sites but so what, it won't affect the rest of the world that much, or am i missing something?

I do agree for the US government to do that it would be bordering on withdrawing civil liberties like that try to in china and Korea and they should not do it but it didnt stop the australian government with the content filtering, what the governement wants the governmanet gets, screw the people.
Its the same in every country, we have a democracy yes, but while there is a someone in power with a "bright" idea there's bugger all you can do about it.

disco2hse
20th June 2010, 02:07 PM
so if there are main DNS servers situated around the globe whats the big deal if the US shut down their end?

You've got it ;)

Obama is relying on their coming under his control. He is likely to be disabused of his view.

rockyroad
20th June 2010, 02:10 PM
I live for channel 604 !!

Lotz-A-Landies
20th June 2010, 02:17 PM
uumm think of them as a big directory lists

you type in an address like Aulo.com and the directory computer tells your computor what computor AULO.COM is actualy onCouldn't give a rats about aulo.com

I use aulro.com - this place right here!

BTW for the other conspiracy theorists out there, how can this be a part of Obama's master plan when it isn't even a Democrat, he is in fact an independent disendorsed by the 2006 Democratic primary. I'm yet to see a whole lot evidence for the "master plan", even the health care bill is based on the private sector.

If you want conspiracy theory, look at the infringement of the US Constitution and Bill of Rights by the G Dubilya Bush administration.

HangOver
20th June 2010, 02:29 PM
i just thought the DNS resolves the URL to the IP address right?
so if you have the IP you can still get there?

just ping all the servers you want access to now before the switch is thrown :D

disco2hse
20th June 2010, 02:44 PM
i just thought the DNS resolves the URL to the IP address right?
so if you have the IP you can still get there?

Pretty much, although things might get complicated with web services.

George130
20th June 2010, 04:01 PM
If the US tried most of the world would see it as an act of cyber terrorism/war.
Would hurt the US a lot more in the long run.

clean32
20th June 2010, 04:17 PM
If the US tried most of the world would see it as an act of cyber terrorism/war.
Would hurt the US a lot more in the long run.

didn’t hurt Russia,

The thing i love about Australians, a little bit of information and a TON of naivety

steve_35
20th June 2010, 05:48 PM
Its never a conspiracy
That would suggest something illegal
They just change the law so it is legal

adm333
20th June 2010, 06:06 PM
Better get some emergency porn DVD's to put in the basement with the tinned food and bottled water.

:o

George130
20th June 2010, 06:10 PM
Better get some emergency porn DVD's to put in the basement with the tinned food and bottled water.

:o

:Rolling::Rolling::Rolling:

loanrangie
21st June 2010, 08:43 AM
who says the yanks dont control the 'net?

do you really think your emails just go from your PC to your mates?


what, they dont :p- next you'll tell me that everything i read on the internet isnt true.:eek:

Redback
21st June 2010, 09:14 AM
Unfortunately that won't work. As mentioned in the article, the USA controls DNS and there can only ever be one DNS. (if you want to talk to anywhere else in the world) A separate DNS just for Australia would have a totally out of date database in 10 minutes.

Also the bit about American ownership amuses me. I always believed - and still do - that Tim Berners-Lee (a pom) "invented" the internet.


And working in Switzerland at the time ;)

But actually he didn't "invent" the Internet, he coined the phrase Worldwide Web (I have a copy of his research article in which he did that laying about here somewhere), which is what most people think of when they think of the Internet but it is a lot more than that.

What we know as the Internet has more to do with Vint Cerf (http://www.icann.org/en/biog/cerf.htm) than Tim Berners-Lee, although Lee has been more influential since then as founder of Web Foundation.

Alan

I believe it went the same way as with the invention of television by a Scot, James Logie Baird in 1929, while developing it, the 2nd world war broke out and all the developement went across to the US and it was further developed from there.

Besides who cares, I don't, we'll just have to write or text one another:p

Baz.

JDNSW
21st June 2010, 09:15 AM
If the USA shut down the internet, it would not prevent it continuing to function outside there, although it would be seriously degraded in some respects - for example, most of Australia's international connections go to the USA before anywhere else, and a large proportion of everything we use on the internet is hosted in the USA. (The top level domain name, .au or .com etc, does not tell you where it is hosted - it will be hosted where the best deal is, as a general rule, and this is often in the USA!)

But it is not only unlikely, in my view, that the US government could actually shut down the internet, even if they legislate to do so (too much would need to be shut off to shut it down), but it is even less likely that they would do so, as there are too many parts of government and society too dependent on it - everything from internal and external communications to banking, market operations, the telephone system, the broadcasting system etc. They are not total fools, although some times you wonder!

John

windsock
21st June 2010, 09:26 AM
Hmmm, the silent skies post 911 was a reaction to a physical attack. How tempered would their response be to a staged cyber-attack. I think perhaps a precendent has been set, shut it down and ask questions later.

Meh, who knows uhh? I am not going to throw away my writing pad, envelopes and stamps just yet. ;)

CraigE
21st June 2010, 09:29 AM
As said would not stop it altogether but would put a huge dent in things. Worse for GPS, they do control most of that.

clean32
21st June 2010, 09:38 AM
As said would not stop it altogether but would put a huge dent in things. Worse for GPS, they do control most of that.
thay have losed control of that, russia has there birds up now

clean32
21st June 2010, 09:43 AM
who says the yanks dont control the 'net?

do you really think your emails just go from your PC to your mates?


of cource thay do, but only after thay have gotten though Echelon