Any Dog Whisperers out there? Need training advice.

[spudboy]

Well normally I am pretty good at getting my dogs to do what I'd like them to do, but this one has got me stumped.

I have a 2yo male Dobermann who comes with me in the paddocks as I ride my motorbike around the vineyard. He is normally quite well behaved, for a young dog anyway. He is VERY enthusiastic about everything, and is still very "puppy".

Anyway, as soon as the motorbike starts off he goes into mental barking mode & nothing I've tried so far can alter this.

I've tried:
- growling him every time he yaps
- stopping every time he yaps (don't get very far each time - 2m)
- beeping the horn every time he yaps
- chasing him down and growling him (although I'm not sure he gets the connetion between the yapping and being disciplined)

I'd like to try a "super-soaker" water pistol while I am on the bike, but reckon I'd fall off riding one handed.

In general he is pretty well adjusted; Sit/Stay is no problems; he knows he is at the bottom of the family hierarchy; he has to wait for me before he goes through a door/gate; has to sit and wait for his food when it's put down (he can only go when I tell him); he even walks on a lead nicely for a puppy.

It's just the damn motorbike that sets him off.

Open to all and any suggestions.

Thanks
David

[Ausfree]

Sounds like a job for "Dr Harry"!!!;)

[RobHay]

tie him to the bike and start it....don't go anywhere. after 15 minutes or so come out turn the bike off....wait 15 minutes or so then turn the bike back on....repeat a few times....then with dog still tied to bike move bike about 10 metres or so keep this up for a few cycles. Then repeat whole process.

Oh one thing I forgot....how big is the dog and how big is the bike....we don't want the dog moving the bike...very undesirable.

[spudboy]

OK - desensitisation (is that a word?). Good idea.

He is a pretty big boy - 44Kg at his last check up, and the bike is a normal farm type bike which weighs around 110Ks. I reckon he could pull it over.

I might tie him to something next to the bike and not the bike itself.

[abaddonxi]

Sounds like you need a quad, then.:D

[spudboy]

Be cheaper to get a new dog!

[dullbird]

is he food orientated?

if so make sure that you reward him when he is quiet!

does he have fun in the paddock when you go up? does the bike only get started when you go to the paddock?

it sounds like he is only getting extremely excited about the bike because bike means going somewhere he likes...

you need to find something he likes more which can be used as a distraction.


This will more then likely be a two person job...one on the bike and the other one using the distraction

[spudboy]

Yes - very food oriented. He must have some Lab in him.

We go up to the paddocks walking every other day, so it is not a unique or novel experience, and besides he can wander into the paddocks any time he wants as the gates are always open. When we walk - he runs like buggery all around, but no barking.

I think he just loves to chase things. I have seen him go after a deer like a rocket. Maybe it is his strong chasing/hunting instinct.

I can try taking some biscuits and doling them out if he goes along quitely. That's an easy idea to try. Thanks.

[abaddonxi]

Yes - very food oriented. He must have some Lab in him.

<snip>

Are you missing any?:p

[scarry]

Those male Doberman's seem to take a long time to grow up,but as he is two he shouldn't be far away.
We used to use one of those high powered water pistols as you have said.A bit of bleach in it helps as they hate the smell,but keep it away from his face.

I had one,a bitch that loved pulling clothes offthe clothes line:mad:.a container with water & bleach tied to an old rag hanging from the clothes line fixed her up.When she pulled the rag,it tipped onto her.

Maybe tie him up near the bike,start it & use the water pistol as well.

Mate of mine has a collar for his schnouser,however you spell it.It emits a bit of citrus fluid out every time it barked.Works very well.

Good luck,those dobees are beautiful dogs.

[steve_35]

Firstly don't strap your dog to the bike and walk away it will just cause panic not desensitization

Its better to just have the bike running while your doing something else
Change a tire or something but before you start wheel the bike near to where you are working start it up and get to work when you finished turn it off

Do this 5 times and it should get used to it and realize its not a hobby just a noise

Try not to turn it into a activity or it will just keep barking

Edit here *********** if your attention is centered on the bike so will the dogs be*********


If your looking for vicious dog try tying it up and squirt it with a water pistol while its scarred should do the trick

[Siska]

Yes - very food oriented. He must have some Lab in him.

We go up to the paddocks walking every other day, so it is not a unique or novel experience, and besides he can wander into the paddocks any time he wants as the gates are always open. When we walk - he runs like buggery all around, but no barking.

I think he just loves to chase things. I have seen him go after a deer like a rocket. Maybe it is his strong chasing/hunting instinct.

I can try taking some biscuits and doling them out if he goes along quitely. That's an easy idea to try. Thanks.

It sounds to me as if he has a high prey drive. (ie. likes to chase) Rewarding him with food may work if his food drive is more important to him than his prey drive.
IMO he is sensing that when the bike is started he gets to run and chase and then gets excited/goes into prey drive mode. When they are in drive mode the brain releases chemical endorphins which make the dog feel good. The dog likes this feeling so it's easier and easier for the dog to go into that mode.
Google 'training in drive' and you will find heaps of information that will help.

[McDisco]

I would try starting the bike up but only head off once he has come back into a calm submissive state. If you start the bike and then head off straight away you are reinforcing that his behaviour is ok. If you make him get used to only moving when he settles down he will associate that with doing what he wants...going for a run/ride.

Angus

[slug_burner]

Well normally I am pretty good at getting my dogs to do what I'd like them to do, but this one has got me stumped.

I have a 2yo male Dobermann who comes with me in the paddocks as I ride my motorbike around the vineyard. He is normally quite well behaved, for a young dog anyway. He is VERY enthusiastic about everything, and is still very "puppy".

Anyway, as soon as the motorbike starts off he goes into mental barking mode & nothing I've tried so far can alter this.

I've tried:
- growling him every time he yaps
- stopping every time he yaps (don't get very far each time - 2m)
- beeping the horn every time he yaps
- chasing him down and growling him (although I'm not sure he gets the connetion between the yapping and being disciplined)

I'd like to try a "super-soaker" water pistol while I am on the bike, but reckon I'd fall off riding one handed.

In general he is pretty well adjusted; Sit/Stay is no problems; he knows he is at the bottom of the family hierarchy; he has to wait for me before he goes through a door/gate; has to sit and wait for his food when it's put down (he can only go when I tell him); he even walks on a lead nicely for a puppy.

It's just the damn motorbike that sets him off.

Open to all and any suggestions.

Thanks
David

The above red highlighted will only work if your are more patient that the dog. You cannot do it while going about your normal work as you will give in before the dog does. You need to do a couple of training sessions where the only reason for getting out on the bike is to train the dog not to check the vines/paddock etc.

[dullbird]

And bleach is NOT a good idea, I'm surprised when the water fell on your dog scarry it never burned its eye's. Bleach is an irriatant even in a mild solution.
better off using something in the water like citrus...dogs generally dont like the smell of lemon hence citrus collars.

[spudboy]

Thanks for all the good advice.

We did two ten minute 'training' sessions with him on the Halti Lead and a very long leash, just walking near the bike with it running, with lots of pats. He started out trembling a LOT whenever we got close to it, but towards the end of each 10 minute session he was a lot calmer. Did a bit of revving, but not too high RPM.

I tried riding with him still on the leash, but was afraid he'd tip me off the bike, as he's pretty strong, and the paddocks are very slippery ATM. So, I let go of the leash and just let it trail along behind him.

He was SO much better. Still did a few barks here and there, but he got some food when he didn't bark.

Maybe he is just afraid of the bike? Or the noise it makes?

He also hates it when the shotgun comes out, and hides in his bed, whereas our old female domberman just loves the gun coming out because it generally means a feed of birds. Maybe he has sensitive ears?

Cheers all

[dullbird]

Sounds like he is afraid and what you are doing is right just do it one step at a time..remember if you scare them it can set them back 3 steps and you have to start over so slow and steady wins the race..

[banjo]

Take a lemon with you cut in half since you stop when he yaps call him over & rub a bit on his nose he will stop in an hour . Dogs hate lemon...

[dullbird]

Take a lemon with you cut in half since you stop when he yaps call him over & rub a bit on his nose he will stop in an hour . Dogs hate lemon...


In all honesty he is doing a good job with the way he is doing it now....no need to punish the dog because he is scared

keep going with the positive reinforcement spud boy and rewarding for behaviour that you desire:)

[steve_35]

We had our Anatolian Shepard trained by a guy called Basil he was the first co-star of Vet harry show

The first thing he does is train the owner

as you've seen in the posts above some people think inflicting some sort of pain or discipline is the way to train a family pet

It probably is if you want it to eat you kids

that's only needed if the dog is problem if it thinks it is the boss or is a biter a swift punch in the ribs usually solves that pretty quick and back to happy training

the first thing you should do before you try to solve the main problem is to make sure you can walk on lead and come when called Very well
once you have something to work with the other problems can be looked at

Once you have a dog that will sit still on the lead its pretty easy to get them use to anything bikes cars guns

Its all about the approach not the lesson normally a calm dog will just sit there regardless of whats happening just watching until it gets some sort of go word and only then will it run round like a tit

My current dog is a Dalmatian and it is so calm you mite just think its dead
An example
I was cleaning out the gutters a couple of weeks ago and i was throwing handfuls of wet leaves and mud from the roof to ground in the back yard it was landing 30 cm from the dogs head at some points and it didn't even blink
When visitors come round it doesn't even go to the door it will just lift its head and look to see who it is

But when i take it for a walk down the river on a weekend as soon as the back door opens in the Disco she is off gone like bullet runs round like fool for about an hour
But as soon as she gets back in the car shes back to calm as Buddha

It just takes a bit of time on the lead and plenty of positive reinforcement sit stay come over and over

[lardy]

Well normally I am pretty good at getting my dogs to do what I'd like them to do, but this one has got me stumped.

I have a 2yo male Dobermann who comes with me in the paddocks as I ride my motorbike around the vineyard. He is normally quite well behaved, for a young dog anyway. He is VERY enthusiastic about everything, and is still very "puppy".

Anyway, as soon as the motorbike starts off he goes into mental barking mode & nothing I've tried so far can alter this.

I've tried:
- growling him every time he yaps
- stopping every time he yaps (don't get very far each time - 2m)
- beeping the horn every time he yaps
- chasing him down and growling him (although I'm not sure he gets the connetion between the yapping and being disciplined)

I'd like to try a "super-soaker" water pistol while I am on the bike, but reckon I'd fall off riding one handed.

In general he is pretty well adjusted; Sit/Stay is no problems; he knows he is at the bottom of the family hierarchy; he has to wait for me before he goes through a door/gate; has to sit and wait for his food when it's put down (he can only go when I tell him); he even walks on a lead nicely for a puppy.

It's just the damn motorbike that sets him off.

Open to all and any suggestions.

Thanks
David

Try rewarding him everytime he goes off then just ignore him, it's his fear of the bike and that you are the pack leader in mortal danger OMG get of that thing it will eat you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no point punishing him with negative responses to what you percieve as negative from him he is only externalising angst

There are some tossers er scrub that "trainers that believe that throwing choke chains at a dog is a cure for things like this I would like to throw hammers at them instead.
As for gun dogs they have shotguns going off in the distance at shoots and slowly incorperate the noise more closly over time so they don't crack the ****s and bolt ....have seen this done ...record your bike so the noise is in the background whilst you train your dog to sit give paw for rewards and praise then re-introduce your dog to the bike over time.
Phone up the local RSPCA and ask for advice they are good Doug my six month old AM STAF goes to them

[dullbird]

Try rewarding him everytime he goes off then just ignore him, it's his fear of the bike and that you are the pack leader in mortal danger OMG get of that thing it will eat you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
There is no point punishing him with negative responses to what you percieve as negative from him he is only externalising angst

There are some tossers er scrub that "trainers that believe that throwing choke chains at a dog is a cure for things like this I would like to throw hammers at them instead

only problem with that is if he rewards him when he is barking he is encouraging the barking behaviour. totally agree with everything else

[steve_35]

Not a big rap for chokers either thay just cause pain
They work well with problem dogs a good quick tug gets there attention but that's all

[spudboy]

We've had MUCH better results with a HALTI head collar than a choker chain. Easier on my my arms, and easier on his neck!

[spudboy]

Take a lemon with you cut in half since you stop when he yaps call him over & rub a bit on his nose he will stop in an hour . Dogs hate lemon...

But then, I think, he will not want to come over when I call him..... just in case there he's going to get the lemon treatment.

[markus_80]

Well normally I am pretty good at getting my dogs to do what I'd like them to do, but this one has got me stumped.

I have a 2yo male Dobermann who comes with me in the paddocks as I ride my motorbike around the vineyard. He is normally quite well behaved, for a young dog anyway. He is VERY enthusiastic about everything, and is still very "puppy".

Anyway, as soon as the motorbike starts off he goes into mental barking mode & nothing I've tried so far can alter this.

I've tried:
- growling him every time he yaps
- stopping every time he yaps (don't get very far each time - 2m)
- beeping the horn every time he yaps
- chasing him down and growling him (although I'm not sure he gets the connetion between the yapping and being disciplined)

I'd like to try a "super-soaker" water pistol while I am on the bike, but reckon I'd fall off riding one handed.

In general he is pretty well adjusted; Sit/Stay is no problems; he knows he is at the bottom of the family hierarchy; he has to wait for me before he goes through a door/gate; has to sit and wait for his food when it's put down (he can only go when I tell him); he even walks on a lead nicely for a puppy.

It's just the damn motorbike that sets him off.

Open to all and any suggestions.

Thanks
David


Allright - some people have it half right and others have it totally wrong.
As mentioned the key here is desensitization, and part of that is building up the confidence of the dog. Dobermans are renowned for this type of behaviour which makes them such good yard (kept in a confined space) dog.

The likely issue is one of 2 things. The dog sees the bike and subsequent noise as a threat to him in which case he barks to make it go away OR he see's it as a threat to you in which case he is trying to warn you of the threat and make it go away.

The thing to do, and this will take some time, is to be with the dog some distance away while another person starts the bike. While this person starts the bike all your attention in on the dog in a very calming way ie; slowly stroking the full length of his back, soft calm talking to him etc. Pay no attention to the bike at all just working on keeping the young fellah calm. Depending on the volume I would start with a distance of at least 100m or so. If he still goes off go out further.

Now once he is calm and ignoring the sound of the bike at that first distance bring the distance in about 10-15 meters remember that a dogs hearing is much more sensitive then yours. Again the idea is to calm the dog whilst ignoring the noise of the bike. Repeat the process till you can start the bike with the dog in a drop a few meters away, first with you off the bike and then you on the bike. The first few times you do this you may need a second person with the dog to calm him while you are on the bike. You will soon learn to read how the dog reacts to the noise. If he barks and is over active or his ears drop and he tucks his tail between his legs and he doesn't improve with your calming techniques at the new distance you may have to drop back a few meters. The key here is not to rush.

This is a technique that I have used to desensitize dogs from sirens, gun shots, railway noise etc. it works, it does take a bit of time depending on the dog.

The last thing you want to do is spray it with water or use a corrective technique. These techniques are only effective with a misbehaving dog, one that barks for the sake of barking (though there is always a reason just not always obvious). Your dog is not misbehaving, it is a stress reaction to the situation.

If you want some more info or help send me a private message.
hope it all goes well.

Mark

[land864]

Our current dog trainer says to solve problem behaviours requires a 4 step process.

1. Set up for the negative behaviour to occur. Take him near the bike ( say 20 feet away, but bsee what works ) and with him on the Halti ( by this I guess you mean a halter type arrangement over his nose) get him to sit. He will feel confident because he can do that . Have someone start the bike up.
2, When he does what it is you don't want him to do , then you , as the pack leader must show/mark that it is not acceptable. A lead dog may give him a nip but you can say in a firm voice either no or bah! Only say it once.
3. If he doesn't stop , then with your Halti on, give him a correction .Gently but firmly circle him around in say a 5 foot circle and bring him back to where it was he was sitting and recommand sit . If at any time he stops barking , even for a second be sure to quickly praise him with an excited and happy " Good dog".
4. If he doesn't stop , then circle him again. Keep making the circles bigger and bring him back exatcly to where he started off. They dislike doing stuff for no reason and he also just wants to please you.
5. Again , you can use praise or a food reward but you have to be quick when he's being good.
6. If he can sit for a bit but looks like he's going to bark then say " Good dog " but in more of a warning// alerting tone. This lets him know you're watching but he's currently doing the right thing.

As a couple of people have said , he's probably just trying to protect you or going into hunt mode etc , etc but he does need to be taught what you as pack leader want.

I don't think I've ever met a ' Problem Dog ' that didn't have a ' Problem Owner ' :)

Good luck

Pete G

[steve_35]

I don't think I've ever met a ' Problem Dog ' that didn't have a ' Problem Owner ' :)


Pete G


Spot on

[spudboy]

...Dobermans are renowned for this type of behaviour which makes them such good yard (kept in a confined space) dog.....

Mark

Hi Mark - thanks for the long reply.

On a different topic, and prompted by your sentence above, I have another question.

You alluded to the fact that Dobermans have a reputation as good guard dogs. However, mine is friendly to everyone, which is good in one way, but I would like him to at least bark or something when a stranger turns up on the farm.

At the moment, the first I know about someone on the property is when I hear the knock on the door, and find the stranger with their new best friend wagging his tail next to them. Our old dobermann used to go ballistic for about 20 seconds and then go back to sleep, so at least I got an 'alarm call' to let me know someone had turned up.

Is there anything I can do to encourage his guarding behaviour? Will it come when he gets a bit older, or have we just brought him up too 'soft'!

He has the run of the house block and the front paddock (about 3 or 4 acres) but is shut out from the rest of the property. Has he got too much to 'look after'?

Thanks
David

[gonfishen]

Some of this advise scares the hell out of me and is only going to make the dog a nervious wreck, try positive reinforsment not punishing him, start the bike and let someone else ride it while you pat and praise the dog if there is no barking same with the shot gun if he barkes and carries on use one word command "NO". my old male dobe took a long time to get used to the sound of a gun. if i can be of any help email me.
ps Past Director of obedience for the Dobermann club of Vic

[lardy]

might be that the dog has the whole farm to wander he isn't to worried about people coming on the property, I know my bitch goes off when she see's someone walking past the front of our place, is that because she is confined??